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 Buying Gold As Investment V2, 2011 Gold Rush From Oil Hype

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barry
post Mar 8 2011, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(FrancescoTop8 @ Mar 7 2011, 07:17 PM)
I really hope China will dump US, so economic power will shift from west to east.
And China lately really crazy for Gold standard.
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What makes us think that China is not already dumping the 1 trillion worthless greenbacks? As i understand, the chinese have been going around the world buying up anything from anyone who are happy to take their worthless paper. Quietly and slowly, but surely they are getting rid of the useless paper. They did manage to spend around 40billion on the Beijing Olympic games, didn't they?
FrancescoTop8
post Mar 8 2011, 11:06 AM

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QUOTE(barry @ Mar 8 2011, 09:50 AM)
What makes us think that China is not already dumping the 1 trillion worthless greenbacks? As i understand, the chinese have been going around the world buying up anything from anyone who are happy to take their worthless paper. Quietly and slowly, but surely they are getting rid of the useless paper. They did manage to spend around 40billion on the Beijing Olympic games, didn't they?
*
Believe it or not, US economy recovery mostly depend on China hand.
If China dump US diplomatically(unofficial/silent), share market not get much effect.
BUT, if China dump US officially (announcing it to the whole world), share market will doom. cool2.gif
So, i really hope China + Russia will go ahead with secret mission "BLACK MARCH 2011". brows.gif
dr2k3
post Mar 8 2011, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(FrancescoTop8 @ Mar 8 2011, 11:06 AM)
Believe it or not, US economy recovery mostly depend on China hand.
If China dump US diplomatically(unofficial/silent), share market not get much effect.
BUT, if China dump US officially (announcing it to the whole world), share market will doom.  cool2.gif
So, i really hope China + Russia will go ahead with secret mission "BLACK MARCH 2011".      brows.gif
*
china throwing USD officially is like throwing stone on oneself foot....

when they throw USD the value of USD will drop....if usd value drop....china who hold the most USD will suffer ....terror balance...die together

US value drop = rise in commodities
rise in commodities = food inflation
food inflation = biggest problem in china


US more happy if their currency drop....slowly ofcourse........improve their export



This post has been edited by dr2k3: Mar 8 2011, 11:31 AM
FrancescoTop8
post Mar 8 2011, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(dr2k3 @ Mar 8 2011, 11:20 AM)
china throwing USD officially is like throwing stone on oneself foot....

when they throw USD the value of USD will drop....if usd value drop....china who hold the most USD will suffer ....terror balance...die together

US more happy if their currency drop....slowly  ofcourse........improve their export
*
If USD keep dropping, world will not use USD as monetary system because it value depreciate.
World then looking for better monetary value and at that time Renmimbi and gold standard will arise.
And i think China prefer Gold standard, that`s why China keep buying every ounce gold available recently.
dr2k3
post Mar 8 2011, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(FrancescoTop8 @ Mar 8 2011, 11:32 AM)
If USD keep dropping, world will not use USD as monetary system because it value depreciate.
World then looking for better monetary value and at that time Renmimbi and gold standard will arise.
And i think China prefer Gold standard, that`s why China keep buying every ounce gold available recently.
*
other currency as world currency.....i don't think it will happen in my lifetime

if i were a currency trader i will buy renmimbi for "profit" but will not use renmimbi as "currency"......i don't trust china government

china prefer gold standard...where did you get info from?
FrancescoTop8
post Mar 8 2011, 08:42 PM

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[quote=dr2k3,Mar 8 2011, 11:45 AM]
other currency as world currency.....i don't think it will happen in my lifetime

- not happen in ur lifetime ? China n Russia beg to differ
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-11...nt_11599087.htm

if i were a currency trader i will buy renmimbi for "profit" but will not use renmimbi as "currency"......i don't trust china government
- i dont trust U.S whose keep printing USD out of thin air.

china prefer gold standard...where did you get info from?
- it`s speculator thing. u dont need to know hmm.gif

foofoosasa
post Mar 8 2011, 09:28 PM

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[quote=FrancescoTop8,Mar 8 2011, 08:42 PM]
[quote=dr2k3,Mar 8 2011, 11:45 AM]
other currency as world currency.....i don't think it will happen in my lifetime

- not happen in ur lifetime ? China n Russia beg to differ
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-11...nt_11599087.htm

if i were a currency trader i will buy renmimbi for "profit" but will not use renmimbi as "currency"......i don't trust china government
- i dont trust U.S whose keep printing USD out of thin air.

china prefer gold standard...where did you get info from?
- it`s speculator thing. u dont need to know hmm.gif
*

[/quote]
good, then bet all your life saving in gold then.
In the end, the true winner would be George soros, Jim rogers ,Goldman sach , and other bunch of US investment bank and hedge fund.
Don't worry, US dollar is useless paper and gold is the safest investment. Go on.
SUSAllnGap
post Mar 9 2011, 12:14 AM

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i got trade GOLD and SILVER at the moment, i can tell you that the trend is super duper strong at the moment.

fundamental points
1. All the low interest money will cause all the investment money into commodities especially food, precious metal and oil
2. China's long term plan is to turn their RMB into the next reserve currency, means next time they wont trade using USD anymore, all the prices will be quoted in RMB (this plan already drafted out and will be carried out silently in years to come)
3. US debt ceiling will hit 14.5 trillion within this 2 months, they'll have to change their constitution to raise the debt ceiling
4. US's deficit per year will be about $1trillion per year, interest paid on the debt about $100 billion.
5. QE2 program will be ending this June. You can expect very crazy moves on DOW before JUNE because all the QE2 money is used to drive the stock market up. What if QE2 never continue ? DOW JONES will crash to 6500 instantly. If QE3 comes, you can expect another $600billion magic money appearing in the market
6. Rising oil prices will cause a lot of GDP to lower, rising cost of metal will eat into profits, a lot of country GDP not showing healthy rate, if this continue, GDP will go back to negative, stock prices cannot go up higher because profits wont be good, so stocks wont be going up. If property, stocks, bonds all not working or BEARISH, you think all the money will finally flow into where ?
It'll end up in commodities
dr2k3
post Mar 9 2011, 12:36 AM

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QUOTE
- i dont trust U.S whose keep printing USD out of thin air.


how do you think china keep its currency value low when the demand for RMB is so high?


QUOTE
2. China's long term plan is to turn their RMB into the next reserve currency, means next time they wont trade using USD anymore, all the prices will be quoted in RMB (this plan already drafted out and will be carried out silently in years to come)


Microsoft monopolized OS market and i have yet to see another competitor that is capable of replacing Microsoft despite all the alternative

This post has been edited by dr2k3: Mar 9 2011, 12:41 AM
FrancescoTop8
post Mar 9 2011, 05:45 AM

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QUOTE(dr2k3 @ Mar 9 2011, 12:36 AM)
how do you think china keep its currency value low when the demand for RMB is so high?

*
That`s 1 of China strategy.
U.S keep asking China to revalue the RMB, but so far, it fall on deaf ears.
It shows that how powerful China is.
China is so powerful that U.S dont even dare to take on North Korea.
foofoosasa
post Mar 9 2011, 07:07 AM

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QUOTE(FrancescoTop8 @ Mar 9 2011, 05:45 AM)
That`s 1 of China strategy.
U.S keep asking China to revalue the RMB, but so far, it fall on deaf ears.
It shows that how powerful China is.
China is so powerful that U.S dont even dare to take on North Korea.
*
don't look down on USA, china may end up like Japan if they don't manage properly their policy. old technique but almost every country victimised by USA financial attack.
dr2k3
post Mar 9 2011, 10:13 AM

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QUOTE(FrancescoTop8 @ Mar 9 2011, 05:45 AM)
That`s 1 of China strategy.
U.S keep asking China to revalue the RMB, but so far, it fall on deaf ears.
It shows that how powerful China is.
China is so powerful that U.S dont even dare to take on North Korea.
*
so you don't trust US print USD out of thin air but you trust china government print RMB out of thin air?
prophetjul
post Mar 9 2011, 02:41 PM

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Gold Beats Buffet

Justin Smyth
7 March 2011

Warren Buffet released his annual shareholder letter last week and also conducted what has become an annual interview on CNBC with Becky Quick. During the interview they covered an array of topics including the economy, the U.S. government's fiscal situation, inflation, Berkshire's investments, and oil. At one point during the interview Joe Kiernan asked Buffet about gold and commodities. Kiernan said:

"…And there are periods where financial assets are great from the like early '80s to 2000. And I just wonder if there's then periods where hard assets are great. And you see Paulson and gold and some of these other guys and gold or commodities. Are you just not comfortable with commodities? Are there times where you should be downplaying maybe stocks or businesses and going totally full-bore into commodities but you're just not comfortable doing that?"

Buffet gave a lengthy reply, which included the following:

"…I've said consistently for the last few years I would vastly prefer to own common stocks than fixed dollar investments over a five or 10-year period. I don't know any about the next five hours or five days. And that might very well extend to rental real estate, it might extend to farms. I mean, an investment you're looking for something where you put out money now and that asset that you buy gives you back more money over time. Now, the problem with commodities is that you're betting on what somebody else will pay for them in six months. The commodity itself isn't going to do anything for you.

So there's two types of assets to buy. One is where the asset itself delivers a return to you, such as, you know, rental properties, stocks, a farm. And then there's assets that you buy where you hope somebody else pays you more later on, but the asset itself doesn't produce anything. And those are two different games. I regard the second game as speculation. Now there's nothing immoral or illegal or fattening about speculation, but it is an entirely different game to buy a lump of something and hope that somebody else pays you more for that lump two years from now than it is to buy something you expect to produce income for you over time…"

Buffet also made this comment about gold:

"…With an asset like gold, for example, you know, basically gold is a way of going along on fear, and it's been a pretty good way of going along on fear from time to time. But you really have to hope people become more afraid in the year or two years than they are now. And if they become more afraid you make money, if they become less afraid you lose money. But the gold itself doesn't produce anything…"

When you analyze Buffet's answer it does seem to be consistent with his investment philosophy. Buffet is only interested in businesses that produce cash flow, and that create products that people need. He's not interested in speculating on the price of a specific asset class. Obviously gold doesn't produce cash flow, so the only way to make a return on gold is to speculate on its price appreciation, which Buffet said is a game he's not interested in.

The biggest flaw though in Buffet's response is when he makes the comment: "the problem with commodities is that you're betting on what somebody else will pay for them in six months". This isn't totally true since an investment into commodities could be either short term or long term in nature. Only commodity futures and options carry fixed time periods that expire, but expiration dates can go well into the future, and it's also possible to roll over a position into a new contract. Speculating on the long term trend in commodities is possible through stocks and ETFs as well as the futures markets.

Buffet seems to be not interested in speculating on the price appreciation of an asset, even if there is an established long term trend higher in the price of the asset. That's just his investment philosophy. Other institutional investors do not share that philosophy, and believe in the concept of long term trends in the prices of different assets. And that is what separates a value investor in the Warren Buffet sense, from a value investor that looks at the price of an asset in relation to where a long term trend could take it. Buffet sees the value from the income produced by an asset, in relation to the price paid for the asset. He wants a low price compared to income, but is not overly concerned with what the future trend of that price might be. A value investor concerned only with the fixed price of an asset wants a low price for the asset, but more importantly wants a low price with a reasonable expectation that the longer term trend is going higher.

There's no question that Buffet's investment philosophy has been hugely successful. But it should be known that the lump of gold that Buffet isn't interested in investing in has beaten him in investment returns over the past 10 years. For not "producing anything", gold has shown that it was remarkably undervalued in 2001 given its price appreciation to the current date. The table below shows the annual percentage change in per-share book value of Berkshire Hathaway, as reported in the Berkshire Hathaway annual letter, compared to the annual change in the price of gold based on the closing London PM fix for the year. As the table shows below, in 9 out of 10 years from 2001-2010, gold produced a better return than Berkshire Hathaway.


user posted image

Gold's cousin silver has shown an even greater outperformance. Silver beat Berkshire Hathaway in 8 out of the last 10 years, and outgained Berkshire by an average of 15% per year over the period.

user posted image


The fact that gold and silver have outperformed one of the greatest value investors of all time for a 10-year period shows the power of the long term trend in gold and silver. It also shows the value that can be obtained from identifying a long term trend early, no matter the asset class.


http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/smyth030711.html
cherroy
post Mar 9 2011, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(prophetjul @ Mar 9 2011, 02:41 PM)
Gold Beats Buffet
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


user posted image
The fact that gold and silver have outperformed one of the greatest value investors of all time for a 10-year period shows the power of the long term trend in gold and silver. It also shows the value that can be obtained from identifying a long term trend early, no matter the asset class.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/smyth030711.html
*
Yes.

But equities is not performing for the last decade since after dotcom bubble.
DJ was 13000 back 2000, now 12200.

If drag the period between 1990-2000, result is different.

Any asset class perform depends on different environment.
It is the economy situation dictate how well an asset class perform.

If Fed is hawkish, and reluctant to use cheap money as economy stimulate, we could see different performance on various investment tool.

It is external factor (human made or central banks policy) that influence the movement all along.

prophetjul
post Mar 9 2011, 03:08 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Mar 9 2011, 02:47 PM)
Yes.

But equities is not performing for the last decade since after dotcom bubble.
DJ was 13000 back 2000, now 12200.

If drag the period between 1990-2000, result is different.

Any asset class perform depends on different environment.
It is the economy situation dictate how well an asset class perform.

If Fed is hawkish, and reluctant to use cheap money as economy stimulate, we could see different performance on various investment tool.

It is external factor (human made or central banks policy) that influence the movement all along.
*
If the Feds reverse their policy now, U.S will go into depression......dont think Benny wants that!

They are at a crossroads of Do that, you die, Do this, you die.......its just that the rate of dying is dfifferent.
SUSAllnGap
post Mar 9 2011, 03:21 PM

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read this awesome article, it shows how little investment money is in the GOLD market atm.......

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-pos...re-not-watching

global pension funds control $31 trillion worldwide, all holding less than 0.3% of their portfolio in GOLD.....

imagine if MUNICIPAL BOND defaulted, all these money rush into GOLD ETF or physical GOLD rolleyes.gif
cherroy
post Mar 9 2011, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(AllnGap @ Mar 9 2011, 03:21 PM)
read this awesome article, it shows how little investment money is in the GOLD market atm.......

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-pos...re-not-watching

global pension funds control $31 trillion worldwide, all holding less than 0.3% of their portfolio in GOLD.....

imagine if MUNICIPAL BOND defaulted, all these money rush into GOLD ETF or physical GOLD  rolleyes.gif
*
As I said way before, gold market is actually very small as compared to bond market and equities.

No, if any crisis, bond defaulted, people will rush to USD or US treasuries.
Gold market pond is not big enough for such a giant fish (the financial market money, liquidity) to seek for safe heaven.

Yes, gold may rise together with the safe heaven rush, but it is spill over effect, the real safe heaven is always USD and US treasuries as view by the financial market.

2008 is the classic eg. we can see from.
SUSAllnGap
post Mar 9 2011, 03:43 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Mar 9 2011, 03:32 PM)
As I said way before, gold market is actually very small as compared to bond market and equities.

No, if any crisis, bond defaulted, people will rush to USD or US treasuries.
Gold market pond is not big enough for such a giant fish (the financial market money, liquidity) to seek for safe heaven.

Yes, gold may rise together with the safe heaven rush, but it is spill over effect, the real safe heaven is always USD and US treasuries as view by the financial market.

2008 is the classic eg. we can see from.
*
right now a lot of the municipal bonds are in deep shit, if one state default, what will happen to the insurance's fixed income ?


alhs76
post Mar 9 2011, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(dr2k3 @ Mar 9 2011, 10:13 AM)
so you don't trust US print USD out of thin air but you trust china government print RMB out of thin air?
*
i don't trust any of the paper money ... biggrin.gif


dr2k3
post Mar 9 2011, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(alhs76 @ Mar 9 2011, 04:22 PM)
i don't trust any of the paper money ... biggrin.gif
*
please "donate/transfer" all ur paper money/money into my bank account~ ty tongue.gif


QUOTE
right now a lot of the municipal bonds are in deep shit, if one state default, what will happen to the insurance's fixed income ?


default? not likely....there will bail out here and bail out there like what happen to greece........


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