A lot of people make money do not realise they are not making money, but still claim they are making money from properties.
No offence.

For eg. you bought a house with capital 200k, after 10 years, you sold your house, let say gain 100k
99% of people will claim they are making good money of 100k, 50%, magnificent.
But gain 100k from 200k in 10 years time, FD also can achieve it (last time, 90's when FD was average 4-6%).

This is not actually "make money", nor can be classified as successful investment.

The actual make money, is that your achieved gain surpass what FD can offer you, at least 1.5x above, only worthwhile to be classified as "successful". My view only.
Just because it is a net gain, doesn't mean it is a successful investment.

So my FD also a successful investment...


This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 17 2011, 02:38 PM

Rental rate is going up like snail pace only.
and a handful can be very difficult to find tenants, and continuity of tenants as well.

For those get good tenants and paying your mortgages, congratulation.
But many left with properties vacant as well. This especially more can be found in mid high class condo, new landed houses in totally new area etc.

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Added on June 17, 2011, 3:36 pmIt is not like today you decided to rent, next week get a good tenants.
Good tenants a lot of time depended on luck factor as well.
We never know a stranger (tenants), from just meeting, talk to them a few hours.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 17 2011, 03:36 PM

Nobody said FD is a good choice of investment.
Just if the net gain from properties is on par with FD rate, then the properties investment cannot be classified as "successful"

Yes, some may choose, different people different cup of tea, but if looking back and assess the situation, it is not a "successful" investment.
FD rate is the benchmark.

We have healthy debate here.
Different people different view/opinion.

One doesn't need to agree on the other, merely can debate and explore how others thinking.
No one force any idea to anyone.

There is never right or wrong, no one can see the future or can assure how future will be like.

Personally I don't quite agree on this.
"Everyone also want to buy few properties" statemet.

I lived in rented house for >20 years, none of family member complaint not owning a house, as long as live with financial ok condition.
No point stressing one financially to max until cannnot breath, just to "own" a house.
Need a place for shelter, and a place called home.
And a place call home doesn't mean must own the house, it is intangible.

I see rent has its own advantage.
With current properties condition, price sky-rocketing while rental rate is not.
There are reasons for choosing to rent.

Somemore, you don't scare to buy the wrong properties, ended up with half abandoned project, don't like the house afterwards etc risk.
Can simply just move out.
Has chance to live in several condition/area around if wish.

It is not fair to compare like this.

First when you rent, you never know the properties will rise from 300k to 900k.
There are risk all along.

Now it is end result you see, only you know rise from 300k to 900k.
Just like 4D, today number is 1234, then you said to yourself, if I bought 1234, then I won a couple to ten thousand already.
Same analogy.

The property can be ended a abandoned project.
The property can be completed but just for growing grass. etc...

By renting, you do not take those risk.
You don't have other commitment, the commitment is monthly rental only.

We cannot say renting is sure loss strategy.
Yes, it is good to own a property the rise in value while still own stay.

But risk wise adopting in the first place is difference.

I always reiterated, cashflow is the most important aspect, and first priority in financial management.
You may have 1 million of worth of property, but no RM10 cash in your pocket, still ended starving because you have no cash to buy foods.

Don't tell me when you bought 300k, you know it will rise to 900k.

Don't get me wrong, getting or owning a house is good, I am not saying renting is better. But still it depends on individual condition and rent is always an alternative option, not necessary must buy.

Yes, you are right.
Just to highlight people tend to say or look back, 300k --> 900k, say, I missed that, look like very easy.
But on the other hand, can also bought 300k and fall into financially difficulty afterwards.

Nobody know the future.
It is not like every property rise in value (net to net)
Some property may left abandon for years as well.
It is not the like it never happened before.

Huh?
Soft landing, with inflation, or official CPI at 5.5% which is one of the highest in the past....

Hard landing or not, has nothing to do with foreign currency reserves.

Japan also has trillion of foreign currency reserves back 80's.

A lot of time, over-booming seldom ended up with soft landing due to complacency most of the time.
Japan superb economy growth in 80's
Asian superb economy growth in 90's
Internet booming, or dotcom bubble
US real estate booming, subprime.

I am not saying China will head to hard landing. Just it is not a soft landing economy (yet), it is still hot, far from soft landing.

Most of the time, price won't drop, even drop, only minimal only.
But you may see more difficulty to sell.

People rather hold on the properties instead fire-sale, until last resort, which prevent price dropping.

So high probably is you see more property want to sell, but harder to sell, take longer to sell, instead of price drop.
You may see "for sale" banner for longer time.

Unlike last time, property is snapped up once you put up "for sale".

It still depends on area or location.

Even if property market turn sour in general, there are still location still selling like hot cake.
We cannot conclude property market turn bad time, everything turn bad at same degree.

In Penang, there are location once you put up for sale, you will get at least 5-10 calls from interested buyers, agent later on.
Even your mail box being flooded with name card, stated if interested to sell, please contact xyz.

While some location put banner, advertisement, yet hardly get many interest party after 1-2 months.

I am not saying price will drop, or property market become sour now or in near future.
What I am saying, if property market does turn sour, price won't drop in the first place. You will see property hard to sell first.
Expect price to fall 10% 20%, as soon as market turns not favour, is not a realistic expectation.

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Added on June 21, 2011, 5:27 pmPeople will try to hold on their property until last resort or totally losing hope before you see price moves down.
(For those selling below their purchase cost)

Realistic expectation property price won't fall much (may be except those super high end one or those escalating too much already one), property price may stagnant, it may escalate more but definitely not as same pace with previous years.
To expect property price to fall with inflation looming around, from cutting subsidies to minimum wages etc, while economy is still growing, is not something realistic expectation.
Property price consolidation? yes highly.
To plunge? unlikely, unless there is problem in economy.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jun 21 2011, 05:33 PM

I was respond to statement China economy is heading to soft landing.

The reality, There is no landing at all! still flying non-stop.

When SRR being raised, cost of money for banks will rise, so they cannot offer more -BLR rate.

SRR is still way below historical average.

I don't understand on this part.

If new launched properties is priced at 500k, how can subsale can be cheaper than 500K?
If subsale can cheaper than 500k, then there will be a lot of people not interested to buy property again.

If new launched properties is priced at 500k, then adjacent similar properties even previous worth 350k, seller will tell the buyer, they only want to sell with 500k.

I don't know, but I experienced, and saw subsale pricing is almost on par with new launched. Just like mentioned pull up the pricing across.
Adjacent got new launch at Rm500/psf, subsale price also being jacked up near to this level.
It may a little bit cheaper, but not too much.

New launched is more easier to "rip", and easier to goreng.
There are plenty of buyers do not intend to own the properties, just wait to flip only. That's why they go for new launched.
As you mentioned, nowadays, people want "new",
New car, new model etc. (sometimes, new model doesn't mean better than old model, but yet, people asked for new model), so for flippers, they take advantage on the situation.

Wah, got new wife somemore....

Please open a new version, aka V3, if wish to continue the discussion.