china violins are good for the price. but that's about it. professional will need something other than just big and loud.

very often violin sound big and loud in close distance, the sound will not travel long distance. you'll also be surprised how loud a violin can be, but almost completely disappear when playing with piano.


your above 2 statements contradict with the following statement...
This post has been edited by little ice: Nov 6 2011, 01:40 PM

Yea your teacher is right. Don't try to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Concentrate on fixing one problem at a time and don't ever try to jump the gun. I know its tempting to see someone play Paganini's Caprice and think "I could do that, I'm talented enough" but remember. When you've learnt something wrong, its very very hard to unlearn it. That's why consistent practice using the RIGHT TECHNIQUE is important. Keyword, RIGHT TECHNIQUE.

So again, correct this problem with the fingering with your teacher before practising, or you might end up with the wrong fingering and wobbly technique.

thank a lot!
Yep, i just solved my fingering problem on G Minor Melodic. I did few time & tried to fingur out, so i understand already...

By the way,
my teacher violin sounds travel pretty far.
Haha, no worry.
Thanks again to both of you.

Hey guys, can anyone recommend me where I can find a double bass around 3k in selangor/kl? I can't seem to find any at that price

how far?

also, violins can be heard from a distance is just part of what a professional want, unless the violinist only play violin solo with no other instrument.

This post has been edited by little ice: Nov 7 2011, 11:52 PM

Even the door is closed, i still can hear from very far....

hi ~~ i only know how to play piano, i never play any string instrument before... but i'm planning to learn either cello or violin... can anyone give me some idea? which one should i go for?
i found that strings instrument seems hard to learn.. i'm so worry after i bought a violin n cello then i stop the class >.<
btw, anyone know that where can i get the cello class around kl area? or wangsa maju area?
thanks ya

Erm, Ryan, there are many types of sound waves. Being able to hear the violin through a closed door doesn't mean that the sound can actually travel far in a concert hall. A door is a solid, although it may stop sound from travelling through the air, it is still a good medium to conduct sound. Unlike through a big concert hall where the sound travels through air. In these cases, most of the sine waves are lost. Similiar to how a bass sound travels very very far, but a sharp higher pitched sound does not. Its sound physics.

Anyway, regarding violins. We won't stop you from believing that your teacher's 1K violin is good and that it is able to produce big sounds. What we are saying is based on decades of experience that in most cases, things that are too good to be true, is too good to be true. Just trying to help...

unfortunately, that's not the way you determine whether a violin's sound can travel far.

as far as the violin's quality goes, just buy what suits you within your budget. for you, since you're mostly playing for your own, you want to satisfy yourself most of the time, so you don't need a violin that suits well for a performer. i'd say, trust your own instinct and taste.

if you need to know more about how to choose a good instrument, feel free to ask.



musicians who are successful are either being forced to learn an instrument when they're young, or they love the instrument so much.

you're not a small kid anymore, you should be able to tell yourself how much love you have for violin or cello. the more love you have, the more commitment you'll give to the instrument.

Unfortunately but true. The only instrument that you can be successful in by learning from a late age is voice. Well... Doesn't hurt to learn something new. But don't expect to be a master in it.

ok, dude..
It doesnt matter the sounds travel far, either few thousands ringgit violin.
I just thinking whether possible to fulfill my teacher requirment as student, as great as she wanted me to be.
She's believing in me, also i trust her what she wants from me.
Of course i am not as pro as you both or againts ur opinion. I am so thankful on your sharing.
I wont go for expensive violin, bcus i wont be soloist.
Have a wonderful evening ahead^^

---

Added on November 8, 2011, 9:41 pmnever too late, dear.
It's difficult to learn, it means u need to work harder than other. I start violin when i was 29.
Good luck.

This post has been edited by ryanconferido: Nov 8 2011, 09:41 PM

Not to rain on your parade Ryan but yes, It is indeed too late. It has got to do with how your muscle needs years and years of practice to get it in the right shape, and also how your bone structure adapts to the violin. For example, my left hand is slightly inward curving compared to the right. Also, I can move my fingers more nimbly and bend it in angles my right cannot. This is the result of adjusting to a position since young. This has also been proven by many researchers and violin educators in the past. A famous violin educator in the States was featured in the Strad magazines and she said, "If you start past the age of 16, it is impossible for you to become a professional violinist."

Professional Classical Music isn't a hobby. Its not something you can just "pick up" and be good at. This is even more so for bow string instruments cause there are no tabs, or keys to press on to get the pitches. Classical music is a disciplined art. It takes years and decades of continuous honing. It takes a considerable amount of talent and mental power. Its like sports, you can't become a professional athlete from 29 years old on.

that's the right mindset.

buy a violin that you think suits you. music is about joy and expressing yourself, you don't need to be professional or with a fine violin to fulfill that.


i believe nobody here is claiming trying to be a professional violinist. on top of it, how professional is professional?

by the way, for late starters to be top of the line violinist? maybe no, highly unlikely, i agree. good enough to beat hell lots of violinists who started at young age? plenty of chance. so many young starters are far from being a professional violinist after many years of training and practicing.

I just want to disagree with what Ryan said about "Never too late" cause in my experience, being late can be the difference between success and failure.

Of course I'm not against the idea of playing music for fun. But I strongly believe in not lying to yourself and wasting time and money only to be disappointed. I've had too many students like that, including one who barely had enough money to eat and yet, insisted on learning. That guy was also tone deaf, and made zero progress in more than a year.

Of course if your objective is just for your own enjoyment then by all means. But for professional (when people say they are professionals it means that they do that for a living. Versus amateurs who don't do it as their main job. It doesn't infer any level of competency.), it's gonna be real hard.

This post has been edited by juoin: Nov 8 2011, 10:47 PM

hey there, juz reiterating what the pros hav juz said, it all boils down to what you love/look in the instrument you are considering...in my case i have always wanted to learn violin but ended up taking cello instead due to a charming performance ive nvr planned to watch..it was an instant love and it made me wonder all day how come ive nvr come across this instrument all this while!
After my first 5 months now learning, i found cello is very rewarding, even at my stage.. i wouldnt say it's easy but it's not impossible..but dnt worry too much about it, for all you know you are a natural juz dont limit your 'love' to 'bcuz it looks cool', try to love it that u want to be great on it..but heck what i know right, i am still a beginner!
For cello, i find it quite forgiving and the learning curve is quite ok..once u get the basics(posture, bow hold, fingering) good, which i am constantly trying to perfect, everything else come easier (according to my teacher)..still on 4th position and g major on 3 octaves, and tons to learn but i am in no rush

on cello class, i'd admit it's kinda hard to find one but in wangsa maju u can try look at friends of strings near s2

do give it (cello/violin) a try and dont worry too much whether u can be a pro or not, more importantly u enjoy yourself trying something you always want!

i can see where you come from, but the example you given was a pretty extreme one, and wasn't particularly a good example to prove late starters are hopeless.

i'd say, learning any musical instrument, to some extent, will definitely need talents. but i don't think age alone going to affect the whole progress. yes, those who has not done any musical trainings, learning ANY musical instrument is going to be difficult, including piano, for late starters. on the other hand, i've also seen plenty of students starting at the age of 15 and up picking up piano or violin very fast, and definitely good enough to entertain him/herself as well as audiences.

professional musicians need different thing, which IMHO nothing to do with being physically adapted to the instrument or not. professional musicians also need to posses solid aural capability, understanding music and theory, and lastly, mature musical taste. so many musicians trained at young age struggled to fulfill as a professional even after years of training and practicing. so many other factors resulting failures included incapable teachers, lacking funds for a good instrument to learn on, lacking exposure etc etc. age alone is only very small part of the factor. many late starters did not become successful on even just playing decent beginner level music mostly because lacking of musical trainings at young age, which is so much more crucial than just physically limitation, apart from being lacking in talent.

last but not least, there're plenty of living examples of amateur musicians who worked as doctor or engineers as their day job, beat the hell out of so-called professional musicians who make music for living. so many musicians (at all age) are trying to make music for a living, but only a handful of the lot are real professional.

IWell, the example may be extreme but it's true. In the end I told the student's father to save the money and spend it somewhere else. =/ also, that was a quote I read from the Strad, I know it's extreme but.... So said the music educator!

And yes I also have students who start around 15 or 16 and are now considering becoming a musician. That being said, I don't deny that mature musical understanding and interpretation are key and I don't mean that physical adaptation is the main issue. It's just that, that would have been easier to explain than "to play Tchaikovsky you need in depth knowledge of the composers relationships and thoughts which you get by listening to a helluva lot of his music and read 3 books on his life." XD

Yet I wouldn't say physicals has NOTHING to do with becoming a professional musician. Stamina, strength of the fingers, these are things a performer should have no? To be able to produce the sound needed for say, Brahms, or the finger length needed to play Paganini's devilish 10th intervals. These are all physical requirements right?

Anyway, I have also met many late starter violinists who actually pursued music in universities, only to graduate and become a stock broker or housing agent. Lol... Eitherway, do everything you try to the best of your ability. Nuff said...... =)

This post has been edited by juoin: Nov 9 2011, 12:39 AM

Sorry for spamming.. But due to it is linked to music, forgive me this time.

Just helping my friend to promote her events.. Can win some good handsome cash and some good prizes.

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The game plan.

Record a video of you playing in blindfolded condition.
Submit the video to youtube.

After that.. email them the name, number, band name, and link
revup.blindnotes@gmail.com

Example can be found here
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Happy playing and participating mates

i'm not sure how i can respond to your post, tried to type some but all seems like it's leading no where.

by all means continue your beliefs, let's move on.

Not everyone here play the music to become a professional. They are at the most extent, play music as a hobby of theirs and one of the perfect job to hold on to your loves for a subject is to teach it. They still can become music tutors, music editors, arrangers and alot more. You may be seeing things too far and the standard you set up earlier was as well alot further than alot students.

I quote you.



in fact, to be able to Tchaikovsky, all you need to do is kept on practicising his work, listening to different taste produced by different pianist and and all the mistakes that will spoil the song/studies. These itself imo is more than enough to play a great piece of Tchaikovsky. Of course you can further enhances your feelings towards it and wanting to get into details of the piece of work (or you are interested of his life) reading his book might help it.

and as to the finger length... Hmm, I may be supporting you on this, if you can't sing She's gone by Steel Heart then don't sing it because the vocal range is so big, same goes to Forever love by X Japan the pitch is near to God-like for a male vocalist... So if you can't play Rachmaninoff because your physical attribute does not allow you to, Don't play it. I am sure there are many other composers that can suit both your attributes and interest. In a piano competition, contestant who plays the Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 does not necessary mean he can beat another contestant who plays twinkle twinkle star variation. Yes, its easier to beat opponents with Hungarian Rhapsody because its a very technical and aggressive song, a tough piece that requires long hours practice by Liszt but because of that, its too easy for players to do mistakes on it. as oppose to that, a cute, warm, steady, organize, simple and nice piece by Mozart may convince the judge to give more marks.

So choose the songs you play wisely. Not everyone in this world can play Rachmaninoff.

And you saw many late learners who ended up becoming other jobs instead of continuing their music career. This is true. At the end, this is Malaysia and money is very important to survive in a developing country where marketing is vastly needed by the society and all the jobs you mentioned involves marketing. But let me tell you something else, I knew people who started to play the music quite late. After graduating from the university or some who didn't even enroll in one but merely studying from a teacher itself... Well, unfortunately they didn't become 'professional' musicians. But they didn't stop me from feeling their love for music, the inner love for it won't cease. They are music teachers now. Occasionally they joined some string ensemble or orchestra, they don't get pay for that and they even have to help the orchestra to sell off all the tickets. But they just love it. They don't get pay alot. Maybe RM200 a student for a month and they have 30 students. RM6000 a month will not be too little either if you are not a big spender.

I will never discourage anyone from learning music if they really love it. And though I think its very hard, I won't even discourage someone from setting his goal as professional musician. Yes, its quite impossible but why not set your goals higher so you will get better results even if you fail. Even if someone fails thoroughly, stopping it is totally another different story. Its like telling you have a very bad taste bud, don't ever cook again. but if you really love it, keep on. Thats why Nike and addidas said Just do it and impossible is nothing.

and for the extreme example you mentioned earlier, Agreed with you that I too will advice the father to save the money on somewhere else if his child doesn't like it, got no talent, can't read notes, got no intonation. Many things to consider and I will invite the father to sit down and talk as a friend, telling him to pros and cons, time length, results and many other factors including cheap ways to learn an instrument. I will let him make the final choice. As for me, if the child is really really talented but the family isn't rich, I will teach him/her for free. After all, hobbies are expensive aren't they? My anime figure cost me RM300 per piece, I love cooking and my spices are about RM10 per bottle which I can finished it in 2 dishes and this excluded the tools I used. I am just trying to say.... Well, hobbies are luxury, if you can't afford it, you have to forget about it. Or do it the non-premium way.

stamina, fingers strength can be train in 2 years, intonation should be another additional 103 years depending on the individual's talent... On the way you can train tonality, other positions and techniques such as vibrato, spiccato, music taste etc. Won't really take too much time to play a good piece of music. Thus doesn't really have to learn from a child's age to play a good and entertaining piece of music if you practice. And many musicians who started to play since a child ended up doing something else or a music teacher instead of a professional musician. Again, Not everyone aims to be a professional.

My 2 cents.

This post has been edited by liez: Nov 9 2011, 02:09 AM