Hi to all sifu here,
I have a problem with the SPA legal fees here.
To sum up my problem, i make it short

- purchase my freehold apartment on Feb 2003 and the banner advertised is SPA fees waived from the developer (but there is no black n white stated that the SPA is waived!)

- did not pay any SPA fees except for the disbursement charges of RM200 upon signing the SPA with the developer

- on July 2010, we received a letter from the management that I am entitled to have the strata title and I proceed to the legal firm where the SPA was done

- but the proforma invoice from this firm is charging me the SPA fees + MOT fees and other disbursement! Im ok with the MOT n disbursement but why they charged me SPA fees after 7 yrs ????? Besides, the developer been so "kind" and offer a 50% of the SPA fees will be paid by them.

- I've called the developer but they keep ignoring me and telling me all kind of grandmother stories and ask me to call the legal firm and the legal asked me to call the developer.


Just want to clarify:
1) there is nothing I can do but to pay the SPA in order to get my strata
title ?

2) is it the SPA fees must be settled before being stamped ? but not in my case.

3) can I complaint to the bar council regarding this matter as I feel there is a cheat going on between the legal firm and the developer?

Thanks in advance

Titann16,

How much is the legal fees for the S&P which they are quoting you now? What is the price of the property?

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 15 2010, 11:16 AM

Hi bro,... thank you for all the inputs here,.. really appreciated them,...

I understand your point, kinda bounced them across those guys who completed the houses on their own (remember I told you abut them earlier ?), these fellas were saying they were afraid the developer might mortgage out their land or sell-off their land since their Dev is some sort of financial problems.

So, they were thinking it's better to grab the Title first before such a thing happens.

I gathered their process is easier as they have "converted" to cash purchasers when their houses got delayed. Hence, there is no more financier involved and they do not need to charge/assign the Title to the bank anymore -> meaning they get to keep their respective titles under their beds, lol.

Maybe, one or two wanted to sell-off too lar, not too sure about this. They can definitely sell-off their houses with the titles in ther hands, right ?

So, there you go, those are the reasons for wanting the title SO QUICKLY. What do you think, my friend ?

Hi, continuing on the story of the house title, I guess some would prefer to grab the title doc when it's ready to be transfered. I would like to know is there a time period of which the house owner must get it transfered to his name. Eg 12 months for the date of the notice. There are costs involved in the legal process and stamp duty fees to fork out and these may be the reason some house owners has been delaying the title transfership from the developer to himself. Does anyone know the details? Thanks.

Property price - RM143,800
so SPA fees around RM1500

Been quoted in the proforma invoice (round up figure)

SPA - RM 1500
MOT - RM 500
Disbursement - RM 300
Less : 50% SPA fees born by developer (RM 750)

Total sum - RM 1500
(sorry, dont have the actual invoice with me now)

This post has been edited by titann16: Nov 15 2010, 02:05 PM

I say, now we've come back to those 'freedom fighter' purchasers' story again? Thought we've heard the last of them

So now if the developer has financial problems - the project might be abandoned, is it? Is that what their fears are?

Now, if the project is abandoned/uncompleted, what would be the point of having a title for an abandoned/uncompleted property?

Who's going to grant them a subsequent loan with a charge created over that abandoned/uncompleted property?

You get my point here, bro?

So at the end of day, like you said, they "get to keep their respective titles under their beds" la. And sleep over it!

Even if they want to sell it off, who wants to buy a half-complete house with no CF?

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Added on November 15, 2010, 3:16 pmThey didn't quote you stamp duty on the MOT?

Anyway, with reference to your earlier question, I noted that you mentioned that you only saw it in a banner - and it was not stated in the agreement. Now, a statement made in an advertisement (eg this banner) serves only as an invitation to treat to you, and not an offer. It is not binding on the developer.

Unless you can locate any side agreement or letter which states that the dev will foot the bill for the legal costs.

If you can't then you can't compel them to pay for the legal fees.

In any event, the sum is not much, as they have agreed to pay half of it. The MOT and disbursements would have to be borne by you in any event.

I would advise you to not make a meal out of it, and just proceed. At least you can rest assured that you can have your individual title out soon

Cheerios

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Added on November 15, 2010, 3:42 pm1) There's no time period stipulated by the land office once the notice is out to the developer. Yes there are legal costs and stamp duty involved.

2) There's one instance where a purchaser may want to deliberately 'delay' executing the MOT - where the purchaser is an investor (or speculator) who merely purchased it with a view to sell it off when the price is right. Now, these kind of purchasers would not want to execute the MOT as they have to bear the extra charges stated above, especially the stamp duty, which runs into thousands. They would prefer that the developer executes a direct transfer to the new purchaser, so that they can save money





This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 15 2010, 03:42 PM

Hi Dario,... good evening,...

Your earlier statements as below. My replies after each sentence :-

I say, now we've come back to those 'freedom fighter' purchasers' story again? Thought we've heard the last of them.

Reply : YES !

So now if the developer has financial problems - the project might be abandoned, is it? Is that what their fears are?

Reply : Yes again.

Now, if the project is abandoned/uncompleted, what would be the point of having a title for an abandoned/uncompleted property?

Reply : They have completed the houses on their own, hence, they could stay at their houses.

Who's going to grant them a subsequent loan with a charge created over that abandoned/uncompleted property?

Reply : Well, it wouldn't be called an abandoned/uncompleted property anymore if the house is finished, right ? The infrastructures are already there, water and electricity supply are available. I believed a financier could be persuaded to provide a loan here.

You get my point here, bro?

Reply : As above.

So at the end of day, like you said, they "get to keep their respective titles under their beds" la. And sleep over it!

Reply : They can stay in their houses too.

Even if they want to sell it off, who wants to buy a half-complete house with no CF?

Reply : Haha, CF. I'll ask them.

Hello sifus,

I'm seriously a noob when i comes to property especially matters concerning legal. I'm currently letting go of my house (sub-sale) for rm275k.

The issue that we (myself and the buyer) have now is that we need to find a lawyer to draft/issue out the sub-sale agreement. The loan however, as usual, will be drafted by bank's panel lawyers. Some say that the bank's panel lawyer could also render assistance in issuing the sub-sale agreement but of course with different cost/price.

Roughly how much should the buyer fork out and what are the standard items/services which are being paid for? As a seller, what should I be aware off before signing the agreement?

Also as a seller, what are my other obligations? I know that RPGT is mandatory and I suddenly realized that I need to pay a 3% penalty fee to the current financier, Alliance Bank, due to early redemption for my loan. Will this lawyer (for the sub-sale agreement) advise me on these obligations?

Another issue I looked at is MRTA-I've self-financed my MRTA for the entire tenure of my loan. In view of the sub-sale, would I even get some sort of a refund from the insurer upon settlement/transfer of title to the new owner? Or is it considered gone? probably there are some info I missed out which were not clear and/or requires further clarification by sifus here. Hope you guys could help me figure out.

Thanks for your help..

Dario,
The increase because including the CKHT2A and also bankruptcy search where my lawyer forgot to put in.

Thanks Dario, yes I agreed the sum is not big but feel being cheated. What if the sum is RM5k ?

Just another clarification that i would appreciate if u can let me know the normal practice of the SPA legal fees to be paid, is it upon signing the SPA, or collection of stamped SPA or collection of keys?

This post has been edited by titann16: Nov 16 2010, 03:29 PM

I just buy a 5 years old condo rm383k. How much is the s&p legal fee & stamp duty?

Calculate your legal fees here:
http://www.elawyer.com.my/legal_calculator_info.php

..and your Stamp Duty here:
http://www.iproperty.com.my/financing/calc...calculator.aspx

Cheers

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Added on November 17, 2010, 1:24 amGood! Be a smart consumer! Don't be ransomed by lawyers and their fees if you feel it's exorbitant. Just ask around and get a recommendation for another lawyer and get another quote, and another until you're fully satisfied. Yes it's a small amount but I would try to save as much as I can as well - at least it can be used to buy some stuff for the new house,no?

Fees are paid in full upon execution of SPA. It is the general practice in most, if not all firms.

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Added on November 17, 2010, 1:34 am[quote=Xforged,Nov 15 2010, 11:35 PM]
Hello sifus,

I'm seriously a noob when i comes to property especially matters concerning legal. I'm currently letting go of my house (sub-sale) for rm275k.
We are all noobs, varying only in degrees


The issue that we (myself and the buyer) have now is that we need to find a lawyer to draft/issue out the sub-sale agreement. The loan however, as usual, will be drafted by bank's panel lawyers. Some say that the bank's panel lawyer could also render assistance in issuing the sub-sale agreement but of course with different cost/price.
True. Sometimes, the solicitor handling the S&P can also prepare the loan doc. Either they happen to be in the full panel, or the banks allow them to do it on an ad hoc basis. It would make things faster if there's only 1 or 2 firms handling all the transactions, instead of a full house of 3 firms.


Roughly how much should the buyer fork out and what are the standard items/services which are being paid for? As a seller, what should I be aware off before signing the agreement?
You can calculate the legal fees on behalf of the buyer here:
http://www.elawyer.com.my/legal_calculator_info.php

With regard to disbursements, I suggest that you check the earlier posts in this thread to get a fair idea of the types of disbursements normally billed by solicitors. Any specific enquiries, feel free to come back again and ask

Also as a seller, what are my other obligations? I know that RPGT is mandatory and I suddenly realized that I need to pay a 3% penalty fee to the current financier, Alliance Bank, due to early redemption for my loan. Will this lawyer (for the sub-sale agreement) advise me on these obligations?
In one of the earlier posts, I explained in length the options of a vendor in an S&P and the obligations therein. Please feel free to browse in this thread, and do ask if you need clarification.

If you appoint your own solicitor, for which you have to pay full scaled fees, then that solicitor will explain the peruse the draft S&P for you. Otherwise, you're on your own.

RPGT is mandatory, but there are exemptions available. It is not a 5% flat rate tax.

Another issue I looked at is MRTA-I've selhtf-financed my MRTA for the entire tenure of my loan. In view of the sub-sale, would I even get some sort of a refund from the insurer upon settlement/transfer of title to the new owner? Or is it considered gone? probably there are some info I missed out which were not clear and/or requires further clarification by sifus here. Hope you guys could help me figure out.

With regard to this, please read through the relevant agreement/policy, or get your insurer to explain it to you. It's not really a legal issue, but more on the policy/regulations of your insurer.

Good luck

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 19 2010, 01:47 AM

Appreciate your advise Dario. Some of the earlier posts may related to some of the answers I seek. Interestingly, in one of your previous post, you have mentioned that the seller may “Authorise the purchaser's solicitor to act on you behalf ONLY in respect of assisting you in discharging the charge, and obtain the unencumbered original title from the bank for onward transmission to the purchaser's financier's solicitor (let's assume the purchaser will be taking a loan). They will also assist you by filling up the CKHT1A (and CKHT3) and proceed to file same at LHDN. You will not be charged full scaled fees, but the fees for Discharge of Charge : RM300 and CKHT 1A: RM300 are fixed and is normally charged in this kind of situations.”

Should this turn out as such, it’ll be great and Yes, I may save on Solicitor’s full scaled fees. But I guess its upon discretion of the said solicitor – he/she may reject my offer for this service, no? Will there be a need to issue a separate agreement for this ‘authorization’?

Fyi, the buyer has just initiate the loan application and we have principally agreed to use 1 lawyer to oversee the s&p and loan agreement. Will wait and see. Will definitely post more queries prior to appointment of solicitors.

RPGT is 2% flat – is it a typo error? I thought its 5% flat rate? Govt reduced the rate? As for MRTA, agreed that this is not a legal issue, I’ll take it up separately.

Hi, may I know how is the legal fees for a loan agreement computed? Is there a fixed scale based on the loan amount? Is it true that some lawyers may offer some discount on that?I understand that it can also be absorbed into the loan amount. Please advise.

http://www.mortgagebroker.com.my/legal_fee.asp

This post has been edited by hakon: Nov 18 2010, 10:43 PM

hi, can u help me a bit about the stamp duty

may i know when is the 50% exemption on stamp duty being use? because i bought an apartment back in 2008 (signed S&P in july 2008 ), then this year im buying another house but then i didnt know if i have use that 50% exemption. how do i check the status besides calling my old lawyer?
thanks

[quote=Xforged,Nov 18 2010, 07:52 PM]
Appreciate your advise Dario. Some of the earlier posts may related to some of the answers I seek. Interestingly, in one of your previous post, you have mentioned that the seller may “Authorise the purchaser's solicitor to act on you behalf ONLY in respect of assisting you in discharging the charge, and obtain the unencumbered original title from the bank for onward transmission to the purchaser's financier's solicitor (let's assume the purchaser will be taking a loan). They will also assist you by filling up the CKHT1A (and CKHT3) and proceed to file same at LHDN. You will not be charged full scaled fees, but the fees for Discharge of Charge : RM300 and CKHT 1A: RM300 are fixed and is normally charged in this kind of situations.”

Yes, you've spotted the one which I intended for you to read. Good job. This is what they call appointing a common solicitor.

Should this turn out as such, it’ll be great and Yes, I may save on Solicitor’s full scaled fees. But I guess its upon discretion of the said solicitor – he/she may reject my offer for this service, no? Will there be a need to issue a separate agreement for this ‘authorization’?

Yes, you save on scaled fees, but you must understand that you would have to peruse the agreement and check it yourself. Don't worry, the purchaser's solicitor will definitely OFFER to assist you with the discharge of charge,etc. It will also make their work easier as there's only 1 firm involved in the S&P as opposed to 2 if you appoint your own solicitor.There will be a letter of authorisation which the solicitor will prepare to be executed by you. It's quite a straightforward letter.

Fyi, the buyer has just initiate the loan application and we have principally agreed to use 1 lawyer to oversee the s&p and loan agreement. Will wait and see. Will definitely post more queries prior to appointment of solicitors.

So, your whole transaction will only involve 1 firm. In a way, that's good, as things will move faster (provided all is in order and there's no unforseen problems).
RPGT is 2% flat – is it a typo error? I thought its 5% flat rate? Govt reduced the rate? As for MRTA, agreed that this is not a legal issue, I’ll take it up separately.



Sorry, it ought to read 5% and not 2. I've edited it. The 2% comes into play as the purchaser's solicitor must retain 2% of the purchase price in contemplation of paying RPGT on your behalf if you don't take the option of applying for exemption. I would advise you to apply for exemption, unless you have another property of higher value which you plan to dispose off in the near future.

Good luck

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Added on November 19, 2010, 1:59 am[quote=Jade Rabbit,Nov 18 2010, 09:01 PM]
Hi, may I know how is the legal fees for a loan agreement computed? Is there a fixed scale based on the loan amount? Is it true that some lawyers may offer some discount on that?I understand that it can also be absorbed into the loan amount. Please advise.

[/quote]

You can calculate the amount here:
http://www.fiscal-wise.com.my/FinancialToo...ost.aspx?link=1

Yes, banks do allow for it to be absorbed into the loan but for more details, do ask the officer handling your loan application.

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Added on November 19, 2010, 2:08 am[quote=zogun,Nov 18 2010, 11:54 PM]
hi, can u help me a bit about the stamp duty

may i know when is the 50% exemption on stamp duty being use? because i bought an apartment back in 2008 (signed S&P in july 2008 ), then this year im buying another house but then i didnt know if i have use that 50% exemption. how do i check the status besides calling my old lawyer?
thanks

[/quote]

How much was the price of your previous property? The current position is that stamp duty for purchase of a residential property not exceeding RM250,000 is given a stamp duty exemption of 50%. The exemption is effective for S&Ps executed from 8 September 2007 to 31 December 2010.

What was proposed in the 2011 Budget speech by the PM was:
-50% stamp duty exemption will be given on S&Ps for residential properties with a price not exceeding RM350,000
-The exemption is granted on the first residential property purchased by Malaysian citizen and eligible to be claimed only ONCE within the exemption period.
-Eligible for S&Ps executed from 1 January 2011 to 31 December 2012.

If you were eligible, the Stamp Duty exemption for the 2008 apartment would've been calculated automatically when your previous solicitor sent the documentation for adjudication.

This post has been edited by dariofoo: Nov 19 2010, 02:18 AM

Bro Dario, you da man..thanks for your help. I think the process to dispose property may be quite challenging as you described here "...The 2% comes into play as the purchaser's solicitor must retain 2% of the purchase price in contemplation of paying RPGT on your behalf if you don't take the option of applying for exemption. I would advise you to apply for exemption, unless you have another property of higher value which you plan to dispose off in the near future"..oh geez, what have I got myself into haha.. i wouldn't have known bout this retention thingy, period! In my case, i would most likely apply for exemption as am not gonna dispose any props anytime soon.

The plan now is to go for 1 solicitor, and of course to find out whether he/she would be keen to assist me on discharge of charge, etc. would probably find out details on the 2% retention issue as well, to apply exemption and stuffs. Thanks again bro..will post more Qs soon.


P/S: Alamak, I was hoping that they revert the RPGT to 2% flat. well, in our dreams la..

HI, just received a full quotation from my lawyer for S&P and Loan Agreement. He's giving me 40% discount off legal fees. Price quoted is not yet discounted.

1) S&P Agreement
Purchase Price: RM 193,000.00
Legal fees:
Sale & Purchase Agreement (Scale Fees) = RM 1,801.00 (subject to 40% discount)
Deed of Assignment
Service tax 5% = RM 90.05
Sub Total: RM 2,236.50

Disbursement:
Stamp duty on Deed of Assignment (-50% discount) = RM 1,430.00
Stamping fee on 4 copies of SPA = RM 40.00
Stamping fee on 3 copies of DoA = RM 30.00
Bankruptcy search on vendor & winding up search = RM 60
Statutory Declaration on Stamp Duty = RM 50
Land Search = RM 60
Conformation fee = RM 50
Photocopy & printing charges = RM 80
Travelling & Courier charges = RM 200
MISC = RM 50
Sub Total: RM 2,050.00

Total = RM 4,286.50


2) Loan Agreement:
Legal Fees:
Facilities Agreement (Scale Fees) = RM 1,300.00 (subject to 40% discount)
Deed of Assignment = RM 200.00
Power of Attorney = RM 200
Service tax 5% = RM 85.00
Sub Total: RM 1,785.00

Disbursement:
Stamp duty on Original Facilities Agreement (-50% discount) = RM 325.00
Stamp duty on 3 copies of FA = RM 30
Stamp duty on 4 copies of DoA = RM 40
Stamp duty on Power of Attorney = RM 40
Stamp duty on Statutory Declaration = RM 40
Filing Power of Attorney = RM 50
Official Assignee Search & Winding Up Search = RM 60
Land Searches = RM 60
Developer's Confirmation = RM 50
Affirmation of SD = RM 20
Photocopy & printing = RM 80
Travelling & Courier = RM 200
MISC = RM 50
Sub Total: RM 1,045.00

Total: RM 2,830.00