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 Personal financial management, V2

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SKY 1809
post Apr 20 2012, 11:59 AM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Apr 20 2012, 11:55 AM)
My apologies - perhaps mortgage fund is my personal English tongue.gif
Yup, it's flexi mortgage - i put my extra $ and buffer $ there, thus i don't have to pay (BLR -2.2%)pa daily rest interest rate, in effect "making" 4.4%pa currently and much more flexible than tenured FDs.

As for where to learn:
1. Basics - google cukup, plenty of write-ups around the web.
Read, process and absorb what U think makes sense to U

2. Details - books (also filter with your mind lar, k. What works then/situation may not work 100% now - just in case some fellow forumers start slinging again, being more than obvious here tongue.gif)
Books like:
+The Art of Asset Allocation: Principles and Investment Strategies for Any Market
+The Intelligent Asset Allocator: How to Build Your Portfolio to Maximize Returns and Minimize Risk
+The Intelligent Investor: The Definitive Book on Value Investing. A Book of Practical Counsel (the big momma of them all, very chewable like leather tongue.gif)
+The Four Pillars of Investing: Lessons for Building a Winning Portfolio
+Value Investing: From Graham to Buffett and Beyond
+Value Averaging: The Safe and Easy Strategy for Higher Investment Returns
*
Wong Sifu,

Why not you write one book for all your just mentioned.

So we do not have to read so many, just buy your book.

Cost saving also , right icon_rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 20 2012, 12:00 PM
memberiii
post Apr 20 2012, 12:02 PM

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QUOTE(db07mufan @ Apr 19 2012, 11:53 PM)
Been a long follower of this awesome thread, started working 8 months ago.

Not married, living with my parents, while the house is taken care of by my dad, i'm just paying for the bills and any loose payments. Parents said do not require me to give money to them yet as they are still capable of taking care of themself.

No properties, no stocks , only RM8000 in the bank.

Salary :RM6200 nett

Fixed Expenses:
Car: RM650 (2nd hand Persona for 5 years, 4 half years to go)
Study Loan: RM1710 (250k study loan)
Electric Bill : ~RM220
Astro: RM164
Water: RM20 (living in an apartment, water is regulated by the apt )
Streamyx : RM135
Insurance : RM550 (Life Insurance 500k) Medical Card (RM120)
Ipad Installment : RM161 (5 Months to go)
Petrol : RM350 ( to get to my workplace, 100km to and fro)
Toll: RM100

Total ~RM4250


Left RM1950 for food/entertainment/date.

Will be my first month next month paying for the life insurance RM550. Have managed to save at least RM1000 per month before that , now the goal is to try to save RM1000 minimum even after paying the RM550.

Been binging a lot on food , as me and my gf are both food enthusiasts we tend to spend a lot on food, when we go out. Trying to reduce it to a minimum!

Gameplan:
1) Reduce expenses, esp misc expenses like eating out, cutting down the snowflake/chatime/starbucks.
2) Save RM20000 and put it in FD. Once i have that will start thinking of investing.

Should i let my 8k just sit here and accumulate for emergency funds or do you guys have better advice for that small chuck of money.

Trying hard to save at least 30% per month. My study loan is a big killer, but what to do haih!
*
Your objective will be to build up your savings quickly to a certain level.
Keep your expenses at the present level.
Be frugal in the early years.

Just wondering if your life insurance is worthwhile at this present time.
You are not married and do not have a family of your own.
Do your parents depend on your income?
Will they be financially ruined if you are not around?
Life insurance is for protection, certainly you will need this when you have a family of your own.
Insurance is a poor form of investment.
wongmunkeong
post Apr 20 2012, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Apr 20 2012, 11:59 AM)
Wong Sifu,

Why not you write one book for all your just mentioned.

So we do not have to read so many, just buy your book.

Cost saving also , right  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
Bwahhaahah - bro Sky high(five!).
U "look me too high" lar, don't lar put me on the "god's table" notworthy.gif
I'm too simple minded to write a book blush.gif

I'm just a digger and user of info & stats.
Those books i mentioned above are just the tip of the iceberg. I've got "a few" more to recommend IF needed, from Trend Analysis to $/Risk/Sizing management and even "age & goal based" asset allocations, +other more "rojak" hehhe.

If U or any bro/sis interested in a list, i can screenshot my ebooks and photo "real" books and post it here for sharing what's interesting to read.
The other books i found so-so or repeating the good ones, all chucked / donated away already hehe

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 20 2012, 12:10 PM
MGM
post Apr 20 2012, 12:11 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Apr 20 2012, 11:55 AM)
My apologies - perhaps mortgage fund is my personal English tongue.gif
Yup, it's flexi mortgage - i put my extra $ and buffer $ there, thus i don't have to pay (BLR -2.2%)pa daily rest interest rate, in effect "making" 4.4%pa currently and much more flexible than tenured FDs.

As for where to learn:
1. Basics - google cukup, plenty of write-ups around the web.
Read, process and absorb what U think makes sense to U

2. Details - books (also filter with your mind lar, k. What works then/situation may not work 100% now - just in case some fellow forumers start slinging again, being more than obvious here tongue.gif)
Books like:
+The Art of Asset Allocation: Principles and Investment Strategies for Any Market
+The Intelligent Asset Allocator: How to Build Your Portfolio to Maximize Returns and Minimize Risk
+The Intelligent Investor: The Definitive Book on Value Investing. A Book of Practical Counsel (the big momma of them all, very chewable like leather tongue.gif)
+The Four Pillars of Investing: Lessons for Building a Winning Portfolio
+Value Investing: From Graham to Buffett and Beyond
+Value Averaging: The Safe and Easy Strategy for Higher Investment Returns
*
Bro, would like to know how to make 4.4% from Flexi Mortgage and thanks for sharing the booklist.
db07mufan
post Apr 20 2012, 12:17 PM

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QUOTE(memberiii @ Apr 20 2012, 12:02 PM)
Your objective will be to build up your savings quickly to a certain level.
Keep your expenses at the present level. 
Be frugal in the early years.

Just wondering if your life insurance is worthwhile at this present time.
You are not married and do not have a family of your own.
Do your parents depend on your income? 
Will they be financially ruined if you are not around? 
Life insurance is for protection, certainly you will need this when you have a family of your own.
Insurance is a poor form of investment.
*
The insurance I kind of deliberated for a long time before plunging in.

The nature of my job requires me to be in tip top health, and half of my salary comes from how much I work. Meaning to say if I do not work that month I'll lose half of my pay.

The insurance I have pays for the days I'm not working. Let's say for health reason I may not be able to work for a month, they will be paying me a amount which is equivalent to what I earn that month working. The sole reason I took is because of that, I may not be able to cover my high fixed expenses if let's say touch wood I break my hand and am not able to work for that month.

I look forward to inputs regarding life insurance and how to not overvalue etc if you guys are willing to contribute.
SKY 1809
post Apr 20 2012, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Apr 20 2012, 12:08 PM)
Bwahhaahah - bro Sky high(five!).
U "look me too high" lar, don't lar put me on the "god's table"  notworthy.gif
I'm too simple minded to write a book  blush.gif

I'm just a digger and user of info & stats.
Those books i  mentioned above are just the tip of the iceberg. I've got "a few" more to recommend IF needed, from Trend Analysis to $/Risk/Sizing management and even "age & goal based" asset allocations, +other more "rojak" hehhe.

If U or any bro/sis interested in a list, i can screenshot my ebooks and photo "real" books and post it here for sharing what's interesting to read.
The other books i found so-so or repeating the good ones, all chucked / donated away already hehe
*
By getting a flexi loan and manipulating with it, you are odeli an intelligent investor to me. icon_rolleyes.gif


memberiii
post Apr 20 2012, 12:26 PM

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>Insurance : RM550 (Life Insurance 500k) Medical Card (RM120)<

Life Insurance
$550 per month
What coverage or protection do you get?

Medical insurance
$120 per month
What coverage or protection do you get?
Do you not get this from your employer?

SKY 1809
post Apr 20 2012, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(db07mufan @ Apr 20 2012, 12:17 PM)
The insurance I kind of deliberated for a long time before plunging in.

The nature of my job requires me to be in tip top health, and half of my salary comes from how much I work. Meaning to say if I do not work that month I'll lose half of my pay.

The insurance I have pays for the days I'm not working. Let's say for health reason I may not be able to work for a month, they will be paying me a amount which is equivalent to what I earn that month working. The sole reason I took is because of that, I may not be able to cover my high fixed expenses if let's say touch wood I break my hand and am not able to work for that month.

I look forward to inputs regarding life insurance and how to not overvalue etc if you guys are willing to contribute.
*
U are kinda insured for loss of profit to me.

Quite well done ( from what I think )

But this thread is kinda downsizing the insurance to me.

A silenced issue here but important to me.

BTW, even to protect yourself from further loss is a Good Wealth Protection Plan to me.

U are a Good Asset , And not a bad liability as many here see.

Best Regards

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 20 2012, 12:36 PM
MGM
post Apr 20 2012, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(db07mufan @ Apr 20 2012, 12:17 PM)
The insurance I kind of deliberated for a long time before plunging in.

The nature of my job requires me to be in tip top health, and half of my salary comes from how much I work. Meaning to say if I do not work that month I'll lose half of my pay.

The insurance I have pays for the days I'm not working. Let's say for health reason I may not be able to work for a month, they will be paying me a amount which is equivalent to what I earn that month working. The sole reason I took is because of that, I may not be able to cover my high fixed expenses if let's say touch wood I break my hand and am not able to work for that month.

I look forward to inputs regarding life insurance and how to not overvalue etc if you guys are willing to contribute.
*
I find this site quite informative. This guy discourage using insurance for investment but encourage it for protection.
http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/
wongmunkeong
post Apr 20 2012, 12:32 PM

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QUOTE(MGM @ Apr 20 2012, 12:11 PM)
Bro, would like to know how to make 4.4% from Flexi Mortgage and thanks for sharing the booklist.
*
Copied & re-posted from previous - google/search functions are your friend, leverage on them

...instead of plonking my cash in any savings or FDs, better to plonk into my Flexi Mortgage as my mortgage is 4.4%pa daily rest - ie. whatever amount of extra $ i have placed in my Flexi Mortgage is considered capital repayment, thus i dont get charged 4.4%pa for that additional capital repaid amount, thus in effect "saving me" 4.4%pa. No FD gives me that % and also flexibility to take out (re-draw).

....Flexi mortgages - U can knock down the principal amount any time/any amount AND re-draw the extra payments any time / any amount via cheques/ATM/online.
When U pay extra / knock down the principal amount, say $100K, U dont pay interest on that $100K UNTIL U re-draw it
eg (simple example only, not spot-on actual mathematically same with banks).
On top of the monthly payment, i plonk in $50K additional on Jan 1
Then later, I took out $20K to buy stocks on Jan 31
a. My mortgage interest calculated from Jan 2 to Jan 30th would be less $50K *x.xx%/364.25 days (mortgage interest charged) *28 days
b. From Jan31 onwards, my mortgage interest calculated would be additional $20K *x.xx%/364.25 days (mortgage interest charged) *xx days


Added on April 20, 2012, 12:34 pm
QUOTE(MGM @ Apr 20 2012, 12:29 PM)
I find this site quite informative. This guy discourage using insurance for investment but encourage it for protection.
http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/
*
Risk transference / management thumbup.gif
Everyone needs some sort of it until they can more than self-insure IF they wish.

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 20 2012, 12:34 PM
db07mufan
post Apr 20 2012, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(memberiii @ Apr 20 2012, 12:26 PM)
>Insurance : RM550 (Life Insurance 500k) Medical Card (RM120)<

Life Insurance
$550 per month
What coverage or protection do you get?

Medical insurance
$120 per month
What coverage or protection do you get?
Do you not get this from your employer?
*
The rm120 has been bought by my mum since last time I'm just taking over payment.

Life insurance covers 36 crit Illness Tpd all the full nine yards.

The big one for me is if I lose the ability to work in my job scope , first year they give me 50k if 2nd year still no, they give me another 50k. Third year still not able to work in the job scope the remaining 400k and policy ends.

Along the way mc allowance per week rm900 and 200rm per day hospital allowance

The insurance is just 10% of my pay so I think it's fair enough. At least I can have a peace of mind knowing if I do not work for one month my bills are paid for.

Anyhow I'm open to debate , appreciate you guys opinion in this issue

This post has been edited by db07mufan: Apr 20 2012, 12:48 PM
memberiii
post Apr 20 2012, 01:06 PM

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QUOTE(db07mufan @ Apr 20 2012, 12:43 PM)
The rm120  has been bought by my mum since last time I'm just taking over payment.

Life insurance covers 36 crit Illness Tpd all the full nine yards.

The big one for me is if I lose the ability to work in my job scope  , first year they give me 50k if 2nd year still no, they give me another 50k. Third year still not able to work in the job scope the remaining 400k and policy ends.

Along the way mc allowance per week rm900 and 200rm per day hospital allowance

The insurance is just 10% of my pay so I think it's fair enough. At least I can have a peace of mind knowing if I do not work for one month my bills are paid for.

Anyhow I'm open to debate , appreciate you guys opinion in this issue
*
What is the probability of you getting these events?
What is the probability of you not getting these events?

At your age, probably you need accident and permanent disability protection. Probably can get these for a fraction of your present premium.


db07mufan
post Apr 20 2012, 01:11 PM

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QUOTE(memberiii @ Apr 20 2012, 01:06 PM)
What is the probability of you getting these events?
What is the probability of you not getting these events?

At your age, probably you need accident and permanent disability protection.  Probably can get these for a fraction of your present premium.
*
I would love to say 0% man but I'm not the one who is deciding hehe smile.gif
wongmunkeong
post Apr 20 2012, 01:19 PM

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QUOTE(db07mufan @ Apr 20 2012, 01:11 PM)
I would love to say 0% man but I'm not the one who is deciding hehe smile.gif
*
Bwhahah - had a good laugh at your great response, my lunch nearly flew out of my big mouth tongue.gif
God's plan may not be our plan laugh.gif .

Insurance(s), imho, as long as it gives U a peace of mind (please also check for ACTUAL coverage heheh, not "agent say wan") and it's but a small % of your net income, i think it's good enough until one's backside gets itchy and want to tweak further for better cost vs coverage effectiveness.

Just a thought (and slightly choking down my food) notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 20 2012, 01:19 PM
db07mufan
post Apr 20 2012, 01:29 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Apr 20 2012, 01:19 PM)
Bwhahah - had a good laugh at your great response, my lunch nearly flew out of my big mouth tongue.gif
God's plan may not be our plan  laugh.gif .

Insurance(s), imho, as long as it gives U a peace of mind (please also check for ACTUAL coverage heheh, not "agent say wan") and it's but a small % of your net income, i think it's good enough until one's backside gets itchy and want to tweak further for better cost vs coverage effectiveness.

Just a thought (and slightly choking down my food)  notworthy.gif
*
biggrin.gif one must not challenge the one above hehe

So would you think 10% for life insurance is a fair enough?
wongmunkeong
post Apr 20 2012, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(db07mufan @ Apr 20 2012, 01:29 PM)
biggrin.gif  one must not challenge the one above hehe

So would you think 10% for life insurance is a fair enough?
*
Hm... let me recall my younger (and dumber days tongue.gif)... yeah i think it's about 10% +/- of my net income and bonus only that i did for myself 3Ds (death, disease, disability) + medical.
Mind U - i had a wife who decided not to work + parents and a dog to support tongue.gif
Thus, fair enough gua.

IF want to be statistically / numbers changgih, i'd suggest calculating (for life / income replacement) thus:
1. Pick an amount U want per annum, to cover expenses
2. Assume X%pa returns
3. Calculate lump sum amount needed to generate (1.) based on (2.)
eg.
Say i want $80Kpa if i kaput for my loved ones to keep on with their lifestyle
and i assume they know how to buy bond funds and REITs, thus assume 6%pa returns in terms of dividends on average
Thus, i'd need $80,000 / 6% = $1.33M coverage needed excluding inflation, for lump sum to buy bond funds and REITs.
I'd tweak it a bit by:
$1.33M LESS all my investment assets i'm currently holding = $Y, thus, i only need $Y lump sum to buy the extras
Like that, can be "more sure" lor tongue.gif

------
These days.. erm.. my insurances cost me about 5% to 6%, of my net income, including coverage for my little girl's 3Ds + hospitalization & my mum's hospitalization.
BTW, i'm planning to be self-insured by or before 55 / retirement age.

Please note that what may work for me may not work for U ar (peace of mind and stuff) notworthy.gif

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Apr 20 2012, 01:46 PM
SKY 1809
post Apr 20 2012, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Apr 20 2012, 01:44 PM)
Hm... let me recall my younger (and dumber days tongue.gif)... yeah i think it's about 10% +/- of my net income and bonus only that i did for myself 3Ds (death, disease, disability) + medical.
Mind U - i had a wife who decided not to work + parents and a dog to support tongue.gif
Thus, fair enough gua.

IF want to be statistically / numbers changgih, i'd suggest calculating (for life / income replacement) thus:
1. Pick an amount U want per annum, to cover expenses
2. Assume X%pa returns
3. Calculate lump sum amount needed to generate (1.) based on (2.)
eg.
Say i want $80Kpa if i kaput for my loved ones to keep on with their lifestyle
and i assume they know how to buy bond funds and REITs, thus assume 6%pa returns in terms of dividends on average
Thus, i'd need $80,000 / 6% = $1.33M coverage needed excluding inflation, for lump sum to buy bond funds and REITs.
I'd tweak it a bit by:
$1.33M LESS all my investment assets i'm currently holding = $Y, thus, i only need $Y lump sum to buy the extras
Like that, can be "more sure" lor tongue.gif

------
These days.. erm.. my insurances cost me about 5% to 6%, of my net income, including coverage for my little girl's 3Ds + hospitalization & my mum's hospitalization.
BTW, i'm planning to be self-insured by or before 55 / retirement age.

Please note that what may work for me may not work for U ar (peace of mind and stuff)  notworthy.gif
*
First thing u must do after retirement is stop buying 1st party insurance for your car in order to be fully self insured.

1) Low probability of things might happen to your car too.
2) People should stop over value their cars than their own Life.
3) Can take public transport where there is an insurance coverage, drive on your own only there is no accident to happen ( low probability time )

BTW, many people do not know there is the third side of a coin. i.e permanently disable

Just my view only.

This post has been edited by SKY 1809: Apr 22 2012, 10:02 AM
gunpla student
post Apr 20 2012, 02:21 PM

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QUOTE(kinwing @ Oct 2 2010, 10:52 AM)
Yah I think WhiteWing should have cut some of the laptop/handphone installments if you are really desperate. Don't forget, you still not add in the transporation cost. We assume you do not use the car to travel to your company, but you still need to spend on public transport right, unless you are working to the company of which is close to your home.

Below is my opinion:-

Car loan : RM 352 ( I drive VIVA only ) (Not going to advice you to sell the car otherwise you will incur losses and still owe the bank though you might be paying a lower installment subsequently. Since your dad's loan going to finish in a year, so you pray u can tahan to pay this 352 in the next 12 months)
Life Insurance + Medical Card : RM 100 (100 in insurance is minimum, should keep this)
My bro laptop installment : RM 91.58 (i'm assume you are helping your younger brother to buy laptop and assume your younger brother could be in college so he needs a laptop to do homework, ask him to work out this part himself, ask him work part time lah)
My own laptop : RM 242 (if really desperate, sell your laptop and use your brother's laptop)
Digi broadband : RM 88 (broadband is not that important, cut this and transfer to your food expenses)
My hp installment : RM 135.75 (I assume you are paying installment for a fancy phone cost about RM2k? sell it if you desperate, so you not only got some cash to sustain your live style for the next few months till clearing your dad loan, you also lessen your burden of paying 135.75 no more each month)
My dad loan ( only end at December 2011 ) : RM 1,077.94 (I don't know what happen to your dad, hope it wont happen again or else you have to find another higher pay job to cover this portion)
Handphone bill : RM 100 (i think this part is high, if can cut by half)
Food : Don't talk about even .. cannot even think. (don't be too harsh to yourself on food, if u sick becuz of lacking of nutrient, you will be more into trouble)
Food : Don't take breakfast,lunch sometimes eat bread,if can go out and see customer,can CLAIM , at night eat roti canai
*
this guy is really caring.
are you the eldest in your family?
I can see warmth in your words bro nod.gif
wongmunkeong
post Apr 20 2012, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Apr 20 2012, 02:19 PM)
First thing u must do after retirement is stop buying 1st party insurance for your car in order  to be fully self insured.

1) Low probability of things might happen to your car too.
2) People should stop over value their cars than their Life.
3) Can take public transport where there is an insurance coverage, drive on your own only there is no accident to happen ( low probability time )

BTW, many people do not know there is  the third side of a coin. i.e permanently disable

Just my view only.
*
Whoops - you're right bro notworthy.gif
Adjusted English should be "self insured for 3Ds (death, disease & disability)".

Can't escape from "the legal requirements" like motor insurance and stuff, mar.
SKY 1809
post Apr 20 2012, 02:42 PM

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QUOTE(wongmunkeong @ Apr 20 2012, 02:28 PM)
Whoops - you're right bro  notworthy.gif
Adjusted English should be "self insured for 3Ds (death, disease & disability)".

Can't escape from "the legal requirements" like motor insurance and stuff, mar.
*
The law needs you to buy 3rd party only laugh.gif

Not necessary has to be 1class, after all Life is covered with a 3rd class insurance.

If u do not work, how your car is going to work. hmm.gif



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