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 Upgrade guide for socket 775 users/gamers, Q9650, core i5 or i7?

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TSkmarc
post Sep 12 2010, 11:44 PM, updated 4y ago

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Archiving all my old guides. Available below:

1) Upgrade guide for Socket 775 users - which one to choose? Qx9650, Q9650, Core i5 or Core i7? (added) Or Sandy Bridge?
2) Noob guide to taking good care of your DSLR camera |
3) Server/Workstation CPUs vs. Desktop CPUs - Are they the same? Which one to choose?
4) PSU guide - the basics |
5) Dual-core vs. Quad-core guide - Which one should you choose?
6) CPU core temperature guide - The basics |
7) Basic guide to overclocking a 939/AM2 (very old guide)
8) Overclocking a C2D/C2Q guide - examples for Q6600/ E6750 / E2160 / E8400
9) Basic guide to overclocking DDR2 rams | Tighter RAM timings vs. higher RAM frequency - which one is better?

10) LYN stock market FAQs & Guide

Upgrade guide for socket 775 users/gamers

I have an Intel quad-core Q6600 (socket 775) rig and, like many other gamers (with a reasonably good graphic card), faces the dilemma of what processor/platform to upgrade to if I were to consider doing that now. My options are:

1) Keep my current rig and wait for the next generation of Intel CPUs to come out (i.e. Sandy Bridge)
2) Upgrade to Q9650/Q9550
3) Upgrade to Core i5 or i7

Option 1) is feasible as my rig is still ok - Q6600 @ 3.12Ghz, 4Gb DDR2 rams and GTX460.
Option 2) is also ok as I only have to buy a Q9650/Q9550 to replace my aging Q6600. I don't have to change anything else.
- However, the Q9650/Q9550 are selling at the same or higher price as compared to Core i7/i5!
Option 3) is the most expensive
- Need to buy a new motherboard, new DDR3 rams and a new processor

So, as a gamer with limited funds, which option would be the best and more importantly, would it be worth it? hmm.gif

As such, I have decided to compile whatever data there are on these issues. Hopefully, by the end of my guide, it will make it easier for me (and everybody else who is in the same cpu boat as me) to decide which option to choose.

These are the processors that will be considered:

Attached Image
Note : Prices from garage sales as of 10th September 2010

Please note that this guide is based on a few things:
1) Comparison made for gaming purposes only, does not apply to application/3D rendering/etc.
- however, you can refer to the references as they do make comparisons for other applications
2) Lower end processors e.g. Q9450, core i3 are not considered as I like mid- to high-end processors!
3) AMD processors are not considered as I'm running an Intel platform and am more familiar with it.
4) Considerations based on current prices of new processors. If you can get cheap 2nd hand CPU, go ahead! (or tell me so that I can buy one!!!) laugh.gif
5) All data are extracted from the web, with the source/link listed at the end

Lastly, remember that upgrading a graphic card is definitely more worth it compared to upgrading a processor/platform. You should consider upgrading your processor only if you have a reasonably good/powerful graphic card (where your CPU can be the bottleneck)

Index

1) Nehalem family (post #2)
  • Dual channel vs Triple channel rams
  • Hyperthreading
  • PCI express (2.0) lanes (P55 vs X58)
2) Nehalem family - continue (Post #3)
  • Conclusion on P55 platform vs X58 platform
  • Power consumption
  • Pricing
3) Conroe vs Penryn vs Nehalem (Post #4)
  • Q6600 vs Q9650/i750/i870/i920
  • Q9650 vs i750/i870/i920
  • i750 vs i870/i920
  • i870 vs i920
  • Summary - Comparisons between each processor
4) PCIe v1.0a/1.1 vs PCIe v2.0 (Post #5)
  • 8x PCIe v2.0 (@ 16x PCIe v1.1/1.0) vs 16x PCIe v2.0
  • 4x PCIe v2.0 (@ 8x PCIe v1.1/1.0) vs 16x PCIe v2.0
5) Overall summary (Post #6)

6) Crossfire/SLI problem - Problems with some P55 motherboards (Post #7)

7) Conclusions (Post #8)
  • Gaming CPU Hierarchy Chart - Helpful for owners of other processors, dual-cores and AMD users
8) Sandy Bridge has arrived! (Post #9 - Newest)

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...0#entry88146346

This post has been edited by kmarc: Mar 2 2018, 12:20 PM
TSkmarc
post Sep 12 2010, 11:44 PM

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Nehalem family

Comprises of:
Core i7 processors
    --- Core i7 900-series is codenamed "Bloomfield"
    --- Core i7 800-series is codenamed "Lynnfield"
Core i5 processors
    --- Core i5 700-series is also codenamed "Lynnfield"
Core i3 processors

Attached Image

Differences between Core i5 & i7

• Different socket (LGA1156 vs 1366)
• Different chipsets (that means different motherboards!!)
--- i5 - Pxx & Hxx chipsets e.g. P55, H55, H57
--- i7 - Xxx chipsets e.g. X58
• Ram (Lynnfield supports dual-channel, Bloomfield supports triple-channel)

Core i7 has 3 important features not present in core i5, core i3 (or previous generations e.g. Q9650, Q6600):

1) Triple channel rams (read more about this here (Kingston FAQ))
2) Hyperthreading
3) 32x PCI express lanes

Do these 3 features help in gaming? Let's look at availabe benchmarks.

Note : Take a look here if you want to know about the top 8 features of core i7 : http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/11266


Dual-channel vs Triple-channel rams

Are triple channel DDR3 rams useful for gaming? The following table summarizes available references/benchmark regarding this issue.

Attached Image

Note : The summary of each reference can be found in the spoiler below.

In conclusion, triple channel rams do not significantly increase gaming performance. On average, dual-channel rams are slower by only 2.28%!!!

Summary from each references:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


References (Dual vs triple channel rams)
1) http://www.insidehw.com/Reviews/Memory/Int...emory-Mode.html
2) http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1665/int..._it/index6.html
3) http://www.guru3d.com/article/g-skill-ddr3...emory-review/11
4) http://www.techspot.com/article/131-intel-...nce/page14.html
5) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Intel-...em,2057-13.html
6) http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Triple-Chan...Core-i7/?page=7
7) http://xtreview.com/review232.htm
8) http://www.brighthub.com/computing/hardwar...cles/48391.aspx


Hyperthreading

All Core i7 CPUs comes with hyperthreading.

Remember that most games nowadays depend mainly on graphic card for performance and still do not take much advantage of multi-cores. In the same generation of processors, a fast overclocked dual-core will usually beat a slower quad-core. As such, using hyperthreading to increase 4 cores to 8 virtual cores would, in all probability, be of no use or can even lower the performance of the processor.

Hyperthreading helps in multi-threaded applications - encoding, data compression/decompression,

Attached Image

Attached Image

As expected, hyperthreading does not bring any benefits to current games and might even result in a performance hit (1.7% slower with HT on). Surprisingly, some games benchmark do show an improvement when HT is on.


Note : Summary for each references can be found in the spoiler below:

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


References
1) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Intel-...em,2057-12.html
2) http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/ci7-turbo-ht-p2.html
3) http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2009...d-cpu-review/10
4) http://www.elitebastards.com/index.php?opt...27&limitstart=8
5) http://vr-zone.com/articles/does-core-i7-h...0.html?doc=6160
6) http://www.hwbox.gr/reviews/3253-quad-core...l#content_start


PCI express (2.0) lanes (P55 vs X58)

Core i7, with it's X58 chipsets, supports 32 PCI express lanes (it's actually 36, google if you want to know more).
- See here for more details : X58 specification

Core i5, with it's P55 chipsets, only supports 16 PCI express lanes (Actually 20)
- See here for a short summary between P55, X58 & P45 : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i...eld,2379-2.html

The X58 provides two full-bandwidth x16 slots to multi-GPU configurations via a proper north-bridge chip while the P55 offload that responsibility to Lynnfield's dual-x8 onboard PCIe.

What this means is that for Core i7 (X58 chipset), it can run with the following configurations in SLI:
  • 1x graphic card - 1x16 configuration (full 16x PCIe lanes for the card)
  • 2x graphic card - 2x16 configuration (full 16x PCIe lanes for each cards)
  • 4x graphic card - 4x8 configuration (8x PCIe lanes for each card)
For the Core i5 (P55 chipset), it can only run with the following configurations:
  • 1x graphic card - 1x16
  • 2x graphic card - 2x8
Important : Some P55 do not run as specified above. Read post #6 for further details.

So, if you're planning to run on a single card, either the P55 or X58 is enough.

What about if you SLI 2 cards? Would the P55 (2x8 lanes) lose to the X58 (2x16 lanes)?



Let's look at available benchmarks:

Data compilation was a real pain in the neck! Took me one week to do the following compilation..... sweat.gif

P55 platform vs x58 platform (SLI or CF configuration)

Attached Image

As you can see, in SLI or CF configuration, the P55 platform is slower than the X58 platform by an average of 5.15% (Max was -15.8% in crysis benchmark)
- remember that percentages does not reflect real world experience
---For example, in the crysis benchmark where P55 was slower by -15.8%. In absolute frame rate, P55 was 32 fps and X58 was 38 fps.

Notice that in the majority of benchmarks, the P55 is slower, with very few games/setting that P55 was surprisingly faster.

P55 platform vs x58 platform (Single card configuration)

Attached Image

In single card setup, the P55 platform is slower than the X58 platform by an average of 2.00% (Max was -11.5% in World in Conflict benchmark)

You might have noticed that for the benchmarks from "Reference 2", the P55 is suprisingly faster compared to the X58. Here's what the author had to say (probably some suboptimal BIOS for the X58?):

QUOTE
Starting with Far Cry 2, most readers will probably notice that EVGA’s P55 SLI beats its X58 SLI in x16 mode. That’s not a benefit of P55 technology, but is instead a testament to how far EVGA has come as a motherboard manufacturer since the release of the earlier product. Both motherboards were chosen for their excellent layout, but our hopes that a BIOS update would correct the X58 SLI’s minor performance deficit have officially been dashed.


If I were to take "Reference 2" out of the equation, the P55 platform would have been slower by 3.00% (which is also not much).

References (X58 vs P55 SLI)
1) http://www.anandtech.com/show/2847
2) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/p55-pc...ng,2517-10.html
3) http://techreport.com/articles.x/17513/8
4) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i...eld,2379-6.html

Summary of references as below(P55 vs X58):
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by kmarc: Nov 13 2010, 07:55 PM
TSkmarc
post Sep 12 2010, 11:45 PM

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From: Sarawak



Nehalem famly - continue

Conclusion on P55 platform vs X58 platform

So, in terms of gaming, what can we conclude from the above data?

1) Triple channel rams - do not offer significantly increase gaming performance. On average, dual-channel rams are slower by only 2%

2) Hyperthreading - does not bring any benefits to current games and might even result in a performance hit (on average of about 2%)

3) PCIe lanes
-In SLI or CF configuration, the P55 platform is slower than the X58 platform by an average of 5%
-In single card setup, the P55 platform is slower than the X58 platform by an average of 2 - 3%

As such, triple channel rams (with it's more expensive price) and hyperthreading are not needed for gaming. In terms of PCIe performance, gamers might want to think about the X58 rather than the P55. However, there are 2 other factors that need consideration. Power consumption and pricing of the X58 vs. P55 platform.

Power consumption
One factor that energy-conscious users might want to take into consideration is power consumption. Many reviews of the P55/X58 platform have found that the X58 consumes more power as compared to the P55 platform (naturally, as the i7-9xx consumes more power compared to the i7-8xx series)

Take a look at the charts below, extracted from various websites.


Chart 1

i860/P55 vs i920/X58

Attached Image

Source : http://www.anandtech.com/show/2847/6

Data extracted to a table for easier intepretation

Attached Image

Remember that Core i7-920 tdp is 130w while Core i7-860 tdp 95w (That's max power consumption at load at stock speed).

At idle, the difference is 47.4 - 55.6 watts while at load, the difference is between 21 - 42 watts.

When the processors are overclocked, power consumption jumps up but the i920/X58 platform increases much more.

At idle, the difference is 90.8 - 94.7 watts while at load, the difference is between 76 - 93 watts.


Chart 2

i5-750/P55 vs i7-920/X58

Attached Image

Source : http://techreport.com/articles.x/17513/11

Remember that Core i7-920 tdp is 130w while Core i5-750 tdp 95w.

When comparing the X58 platform to various P55 boards, power consumption at idle for the X58 platform was higher, with a range of 35 - 74 watts

At load, the X58 platform was higher by 47 - 63 watts


Chart 3


Core i5 750, core i7 870, core i7 920 and core i7 975

Attached Image

Source : http://www.anandtech.com/show/2832/17

Remember that Core i7-920/i7-975 tdp are 130w while Core i5-750/i7-870 tdp are 95w.

Extracted data from the above chart (with the analysis from the website in quotes):

Attached Image

QUOTE
At idle the Core i5 and Core i7 870 use less power than any other processor we've ever tested. Note that these idle power figures include an idling GeForce GTX 280. With a lower power graphics card, you could easily get to idle power consumption around 60W. Once we start seeing on-package GPUs, total system power consumption should drop even further.

Under load the Core i5 and Core i7 870 continue to impress. They both draw less power than a Q6600 or a Q9650, all the while outperforming the two. Power consumption is also noticeably lower than Bloomfield.
Chart 4

Attached Image

Differences in power consumption ranges between 39 - 43 watts.

Chart 5

This is the newest chart that shows an immediate jump in power consumption when you use core i7 processors.

Attached Image

Source : http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/displ...d_10.html#sect1

Conclusion
As with the examples above, it is obvious that the P55 platform is more energy efficient compared to the X58 platform, with an average difference of 40-60 watts.

Other references on power consumption:
1) http://www.techspot.com/review/193-intel-c...750/page10.html

Pricing
To put it bluntly, X58 motherboards are more expensive. From LYP pricelist, the:
- X58 motherboards ranges from RM639 - RM2099
- P55 motherboards ranges from RM265 - RM1355

For rams, if you intend to utilize the maximum channels available, you would need to buy 3 sticks of rams for the X58 platform as opposed to 2 sticks on the P55 platform.

Summary - P55 platform
  • Socket 1156, accepts Core i7-800 series and core i5
  • Only runs dual-channel rams
  • Higher max memory (2000-2600 mhz)
  • No northbridge
  • P55 setup can only run SLI/crossfire at x8/x8
  • Triple SLI not recommended
  • Entry-level motherboard only has single PCIe slot for graphic card
  • Cheaper, best bang for buck, for mainstream users
  • More power efficient
Summary - X58 platform
  • Socket 1366, accepts Core i7-900 series
  • Supports hexacore (6 cores) in the future
  • Support triple-channel RAM
  • Lower max memory (1600-2000 mhz)
  • X58 setup can run SLI/crossfire at full x16/x16 (Excellent for multi-GPU setup)
  • Can run triple SLI
  • Entry-level motherboard can run SLI/crossfire (i.e. 2 graphic cards)
  • More expensive, meant for extreme users
Here's the summary in table format:
Attached Image

This post has been edited by kmarc: Dec 3 2010, 01:57 PM
TSkmarc
post Sep 12 2010, 11:46 PM

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From: Sarawak



Conroe vs Penryn vs Nehalem

I have compiled whatever available data (through googling) and made a comparison between different processors. This one took me around 3 weeks to complete! (Don't worry, I only used my spare time to do this). Excel was used for data compilation and graph generation.

Q6600 vs Q9650/i750/i870/i920

How to read the y-axis of the graph:

Reference number (the references are listed below) | Graphic card | Resolution | Game

Q6600 vs Q9650

Attached Image

On average, Q9650 is 21.9% faster than Q6600.

Q6600 vs i750

Attached Image

On average, i750 is 35.1% faster than Q6600.

Q6600 vs i870

Attached Image

On average, i870 is 29.2% faster than Q6600

Q6600 vs i920

Attached Image

On average, i920 is 22.6% faster than Q6600

Summary - Q6600 vs All

The following graph shows, on average, how fast other processors are compared to Q6600.

Attached Image


Q9650 vs i750/i870/i920

Q9650 vs i750

Attached Image

On average, i750 is 6.6% faster than Q9650

Q9650 vs i870

Attached Image

On average, i870 is 5.8% faster than Q9650

Q9650 vs i920

Attached Image

On average, i920 is 2.8% faster than Q9650

Q9650 vs all

The following graph shows, on average, how fast other processors are compared to Q9650.

Attached Image

i750 vs i870/i920

i750 vs i870

Attached Image

On average, i870 is 2.2% faster than i750.

i750 vs i920

Attached Image

On average, i920 is 0.5% faster than i750.

i870 vs i920

i870 vs i920

Attached Image

On average, i920 is 1.0% SLOWER than i750.


Summary - Comparisons between each processor

Attached Image

From the above graph, it can be concluded that:

1) A good performance boost when upgrading from Q6600 to Q9650/i750/i870/i920 (21.9-35.1% performance boost)
2) Minimal gain if you upgrade from Q9650 to i750/i870/i920 (2.8 - 6.6% performance boost)

Here's the whole excel file of the above data/graphs:

Attached File  Excel_file___CPU_comparisons.doc ( 202.5k ) Number of downloads: 26

Important : I don't know why I couldn't upload an excel file. As such, I changed the extension to ".doc". To open the file, just open with your normal excel program and NOT microsoft word. It will warn you that the format is different but just click "Yes" to open the file anyway. wink.gif

References:
1) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Intel-...em,2057-25.html
2) http://www.anandtech.com/show/2832/8
3) http://www.anandtech.com/show/2832/16
--- http://www.anandtech.com/show/2839/7 (+ core i7 860 results)
4) http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardw...-review-17.html
5) http://techgage.com/article/intel_core_i7_...ance_preview/11
6) http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=776&type=expert&pid=10
--- http://swfan.com/reviews/processors/intel-...rs/gaming-tests (+ core i7 860 results)
7) http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,694495/...viewed/Reviews/
8) http://www.techspot.com/review/193-intel-c...-750/page9.html
9) http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/in...corei7870/9.htm
10) http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=19979&page=9
11) http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/displ...60_4.html#sect0
12) http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i5-750-...-review-test/18
13) http://www.techspot.com/review/124-intel-c...965/page11.html
14) http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2008...45-965-review/4
15) http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cpus/2010...30-cpu-review/7

New CPU benchmarks (after I had already finished my guides):
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/displ...am_6.html#sect1

Other good CPU benchmarks:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-de...0.0.5,1403.html
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/47

This post has been edited by kmarc: Nov 22 2010, 02:27 PM
TSkmarc
post Sep 12 2010, 11:47 PM

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PCIe v1.0a/1.1 vs PCIe v2.0

The reason to compare this is because v2.0 has more bandwidth compared to v1.0/1.1. Older motherboards only have v1.0/1.1 while newer ones has v2.0.

Basically, PCIe v2.0 offers double the bandwidth of PCIe v1.0/1.1:
  • 16x PCIe v1.1: 4GB/s (250MB/s per lane)
  • 16x PCIe v2.0: 8GB/s (500MB/s per lane)
In terms of bandwidth, you can actually say:
- 8x PCIe v2.0 = 16x PCIe v1.1


--example of motherboards with v1.0/1.1/2.0

I couldn't really find many reviews on PCIe v1.0/1.1 vs v2.0. However, based on the assumption that 16x PCIe 1.1 = 8x PCIe v2.0, we can then compare reviews that includes 8x PCIe v2.0 vs 16x PCIe v2.0.

8x PCIe v2.0 (@ 16x PCIe v1.1/1.0) vs 16x PCIe v2.0

Attached Image

On average, 8x PCIe v2.0 (@ 16x PCIe v1.1/1.0) is only slower than 16x PCIe v2.0 by 3.3%

4x PCIe v2.0 (@ 8x PCIe v1.1/1.0) vs 16x PCIe v2.0

For those interested, I've decided to include these data too.

Attached Image


On average, 4x PCIe v2.0 (@ 8x PCIe v1.1/1.0) is slower than 16x PCIe v2.0 by 11.7%

References (PCIe v2.0 vs v1.0/1.1)

1) http://www.anandtech.com/show/2847
2) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/p55-pc...ing,2517-3.html
3) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pcie-g...-x4,2696-3.html
4) http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_..._Scaling/3.html
5) http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=2249&page=3


Older review using older cards

1) http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crossf...ess,1761-5.html


SLI comparison

If you're interested in SLI comparisons, can take a look at the references below:

1) x16/x16 vs x8/x8
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/08/23/...x16x16_vs_x8x8/
2) x16/x16 vs x4/x4
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/08/25/...x16x16_vs_x4x4/
3) x16/x16 vs x8/x16
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/08/16/...6x16_vs_x16x8/1
4) http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardw...-review-13.html
5) http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=2249&page=3

This post has been edited by kmarc: Nov 21 2010, 05:39 PM
TSkmarc
post Sep 13 2010, 12:13 AM

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Overall summary

Based on the following chart (which is already displayed above), we can make the following conclusions:

Attached Image

a) If you have a Q6600 (or lower CPU) and a good graphic card, upgrading to either a Q9650 or Core i5/i7 is a good choice as there is a good performance gain of between 21.9 - 35.1%.

b) If you have a Q9650 and a good graphic card, upgrading to either a Core i5/i7 is NOT a good choice, as the performance gain ranges between 2.8 - 6.6% only.

Which processor/platform to choose?

Now that we think upgrading to Q9650/i5/i7 is a good choice, the next question is which processor/platform to choose?

This is not an easy question as it depends on many factors.

a) Upgrade to Q9650

Pros

- Easiest method as you can just replace the processor (provided your motherboard supports it, may need bios update)
- No need to change any other components
- Relatively cheaper as you don't have to replace your motherboard and rams

Cons

- Lowest performance gain as compared to core i5/i7
- Older northbridge chipset e.g. P35 with PCIe v1.1/1.0, may cause some bottleneck (as compared to PCIe v2.0) but not by much as evident from data that shows only an average performance hit of only 3.3% (refer post #5 - PCIe v1.1/1.0 vs PCIe v2.0)

b) Upgrade to Core i5/i7

Pros
- New technology with additional features such as hyperthreading and triple channel DDR3
- Better performance gain as compared to Q9650 (as high as 35.1% for i750)
- Full x16/x16 for x58 platform

Cons
- More expensive as need to upgrade processor, motherboard and ram

Which one to choose?

This is again a difficult choice. However, looking purely in terms of gaming, the following conclusions can be made:

i) Hyperthreading
    Does not bring any benefits to current games and might even result in a performance hit (1.7% slower with HT on) - This means you don't need Core i7 or Core i5 800-series
    In my opinion, you should not buy a processor with HT just in case you MIGHT want to use HT. In my experience, most of the time, you won't fully utilize it. Of course, if you frequently use apps that take benefits from HT, then HT is a must.
ii) Triple channel rams
    Dual-channel rams are slower by only 2.28% - This means that you don't need Core i7
iii) P55 platform vs X58 platform
    P55 (Single card) - in single card setup, the P55 platform is slower than the X58 platform by an average of 2.00%
    P55 (SLI/CF) - in SLI or CF configuration, the P55 platform is slower than the X58 platform by an average of 5.15%

    So, if you're thinking of a single card setup, the P55 platform would be more than adequate.
    If you're thinking about SLI/CF, then it might be better to go with the X58 platform. However, that would also mean using core i7 900-series. Remember, that it is not cheap to setup a rig with Core i7, X58 mobo and SLI/CF graphics.
iv) Power consumption
    As with the examples above, it is obvious that the P55 platform is more energy efficient compared to the X58 platform, with an average difference of 40-60 watts.
v) Pricing
    Obviously, going for the P55 platform would be much cheaper compared to the X58 platform
vi) Performance in games
    Again, look at the following graph:

    Attached Image

    As you can see, Core i5 760 actually gives the best performance gain of 35.1%.
In conclusion (IMHO), for budget-conscious gamers, Core i5 750 or 760 would give the best bang for buck if you're planning to upgrade to Nehalem.

This post has been edited by kmarc: Nov 21 2010, 06:42 PM
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post Sep 18 2010, 07:55 PM

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Crossfire/SLI problem - Problems with some P55 motherboards

Apparently, in some motherboards, the crossfire/SLI performance will be crippled due to various factors. Take a look here:

http://www.hardware-revolution.com/p55-mot...rmance-problem/

From what I understand, in some cheaper P55 motherboards, these will happen:
1) If you run SLI, you would be running at 8x/4x (or even 8x/2x) instead of 8x/8x!!!! rclxub.gif
2) If you run a single graphic card (full 16x PCIe lanes), it will be reduced to 8x if you use SATA 3.0 or USB 3.0! sweat.gif
- due to linking of SATA3/USB3 to the primary PCIe 2.0 lanes for bandwidth

From the website, it looks like these motherboards have the problem:
  • Asrock P55 Pro
  • Asrock P55M Pro
  • Asus P7P55D
  • Asus P7P55D LE
  • Evga P55 Micro LE
  • Gigabyte GA-P55M-UD2
  • Gigabyte GA-P55-UD3
  • Gigabyte GA-P55-UD3L
  • Gigabyte GA-P55-UD3P
  • Gigabyte GA-P55-UD3R
  • Gigabyte GA-P55-US3L
  • MSI P55M-GD45
Here's a more detailed description of the problem : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/usb-3....6gb,2583-2.html

So, for prospective buyers of P55 mobo's who might SLI/crossfire, ensure that the motherboard you're going to buy does not have these limitations.

Some motherboards that are NOT affected are:
  • ASRock P55 Deluxe (Two-Way SLI)
  • Asrock P55 Extreme (Two-Way SLI)
  • ASUS Maximus III Formula (Two-Way SLI)
  • Asus Maximus III Gene (Two-Way SLI)
  • ASUS P7P55 WS SuperComputer (Three-Way SLI, equipped with NF200)
  • ASUS P7P55D Deluxe (Two-Way SLI)
  • Asus P7P55D Premium (Two-Way SLI)
  • ASUS P7P55D PRO (Two-Way SLI)
  • Asus P7P55D EVO
  • BIOSTAR T5 XE (No SLI)
  • Biostar T5 XE CFX-SLI (Two-Way SLI)
  • BIOSTAR TPOWER i55 (Two-Way SLI)
  • Evga P55 (Two-Way SLI)
  • Evga P55 Classified 200 (Three-Way SLI)
  • EVGA P55 FTW (Two-Way SLI)
  • Evga P55 FTW 200 (Three-Way SLI)
  • EVGA P55 Micro (Two-Way SLI)
  • EVGA P55 LE 123-LF-E653-KR
  • GIGABYTE GA-P55M-UD4
  • Gigabyte GA-P55-UD4
  • GIGABYTE GA-P55-UD4P
  • GIGABYTE GA-P55-UD5
  • GIGABYTE GA-P55-UD6
  • Intel DP55KG
  • Intel DP55SB
  • Intel DP55WB
  • Intel DP55WG
  • MSI P55-GD65
  • MSI P55-GD80
Other references:
http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=106966
http://www.overclock.net/intel-motherboard...oblem-only.html
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1532343
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1035805792&postcount=6
http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1119849

This post has been edited by kmarc: Nov 14 2010, 04:38 PM
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post Oct 13 2010, 08:03 PM

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Conclusions

Alas, I have outdone myself again. My guides always start small and simple but in the end, get bloated with much more facts that I intended to include. sweat.gif

Before going further, I would like to express my own humble opinion based on the data above. If I can get a cheap Q9650, I will buy it rather than upgrade to the core i7/i5 platform as it is the easiest method. However, if I can't get a cheap Q9650 (remember that the Q9650 can be more expensive than a i5 760!), I'd rather wait for Sandy Bridge. drool.gif

Please take note that a lot of the comparisons I've made were simple comparisons. Some comparisons were like comparing an apple to an orange but I did it anyway, just to get a rough idea on the differences between the two being compared.

One important factor when considering which platform to upgrade to is the constant price revision for PC components. In fact, just before doing this guide, Intel decided to cut the price of Core i7-950 by 50%! As such, when making decisions, the pricing at that point of time would play a big factor for us budget-constraint users.

In addition, remember that many games still do not utilize 4 cores. Dual cores (at the same price) may be faster than quad core in gaming due to their higher speed. However, this excellent review will show you that there are more and more games needing more than 2 cores :
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/game-p...eneck,2737.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/game-p...eneck,2738.html

Also remember that for gamers, the graphic card is the most important component in terms of frame rates. Upgrading a slow graphic card usually results in better performance gains as compare to upgrading a slow CPU. The consideration of upgrading the CPU is when you already have a good graphic card.

Gaming CPU Hierarchy Chart

This is a useful chart which groups CPUs with similar overall gaming performance levels into tiers.

Please see here for the source: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming...clock,2772.html

** Updated chart here : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/best-g...cpu,2951-5.html

Attached Image

This is what they recommend :
QUOTE
You can use this hierarchy to compare the pricing between two processors, to see which one is a better deal, and also to determine if an upgrade is worthwhile. I don’t recommend upgrading your CPU unless the potential replacement is at least three tiers higher. Otherwise, the upgrade is somewhat parallel and you may not notice a worthwhile difference in game performance.
Do note that the hierarchy chart is based on the average performance each CPU achieved using only four game titles:
  • Crysis
  • Unreal Tournament 3
  • World in Conflict
  • Supreme Commander
Even so, it is a good guide to gauge what is the "level" of your CPU as compared to other processors.

Other references

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/displ...60_9.html#sect0

Other references (core i7 vs i5)
1) (VERY GOOD!!!) http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/767/

Basics
http://www.differencebetween.net/technolog...i-express-2-0/l
http://blog.trentontechnology.com/bid/3835...g-Why-Do-I-Care
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2412

This post has been edited by kmarc: May 27 2011, 09:07 PM
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post Jan 5 2011, 12:15 AM

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Sandy Bridge has arrived!!!!

Sandy Bridge has arrived and there are many reviews out there regarding the "greatness" of this new chip from Intel. I was impressed by MaximumPC's review of Sandy Bridge:

http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/...e_washes_ashore

Quote from the website:

QUOTE
When your only competition is yourself, what do you do when you have to introduce your latest and greatest CPU? Commit fratricide against your own chips? If you have the muscle and war chest of Intel, then yes.

At least, that’s what Intel’s new Sandy Bridge CPU family does to the company’s existing lineup of processors—lines them up on a cliff and pushes them off, one by one.

The stellar Core i7-870? Off you go. Core i7-975 Extreme Edition? Who needs your luxury-priced ass, anyway? Core i7-950? We’ll see you in hell!

In essence, Intel’s Sandy Bridge has rendered all previous quad-core and dual-core processors obsolete in both performance and price. Yes, the top chips in Intel’s Sandy Bridge family are that fast. And they’re pretty damn cheap, too. The fastest Sandy Bridge chip, for example, will outrun the $1,000 Core i7-975 Extreme Edition, yet it costs just three bills.

The top-end Core i7-2600K smashes every other quad-core Intel chip by healthy margins. This is aided by the new microarchitecture, the ring bus, and other magical stuff, we suppose, but we see no reason to buy any other CPU for the money. Even the once-powerful Core i7-975 Extreme Edition is flatly punched in the nose by the 2600K. While the 975 is long gone, you can extrapolate that the 2600K will outgun the Core i7-950, i7-930, and the poorly priced i7-960. Against non-Intel chips, it’s no contest. AMD’s hexa-core Phenom II X6 1090T, which was already getting beaten up by existing Hyper-Threaded Core i7 chips, also takes a serious thrashing from the Core i7-2600K.

Even the mighty Core i7-980X loses a few benchmarks to the Core i7-2600K chip. These are mostly in benchmarks that can’t exploit the six-cores of the 980X, and where the Turbo Boost 2.0 gives the Sandy Bridge part a key advantage.


So, with Sandy Bridge out, it makes it easier to decide what to do:
1) Upgrade your processor to Q9650/Q9550
2) Upgrade to Sandy Bridge platform

Forget about Nehalem processors (e.g. i5-760, i7-870, i7-950) as they are dead ends, socket 1156/1366 with no upgrade options (unless you can get them at very cheap prices). Among the 2 above options, with current pricing, it is probably better to go Sandy Bridge. At the moment, Core i5-2500k price is around RM700 while a 2nd-hand Q9650 probably cost more than RM700-800. Of course, the Q9650 prices will probably drop because of Sandy Bridge but we would have to see how much it drops. To me, only get a Q9650/Q9550 if it is REALLY cheap!

Is this the end? NO! Don't forget that Ivy Bridge (also socket 1155 with 22nm process) is coming out! Estimated to be in the market one year after Sandy Bridge (Q1 2012). Socket 775 users had already been patient waiting for Sandy Bridge. Are you going to wait further for Ivy Bridge? Remember that you shouldn't wait too long for new technology to come. On the other hand, if your rig is still "adequate" for you at the moment, I guess waiting for another year is not that long. The only problem about waiting for Ivy Bridge is that it might not be introduced in Q1 2012. IMO, it depends largely on whether AMD can respond to Sandy Bridge.

-- THE END --

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 8 2011, 04:38 PM
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post Jan 5 2011, 01:51 PM

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QUOTE(Duckies @ Jan 5 2011, 11:36 AM)
Holy shit u have done a great piece of work here!I learnt a whole lot of stuffs!Moderators please pin this topic. biggrin.gif
*
Thx. Actually waiting for goldfries to do something about this guide....... Will be doing some updates for the last post since Sandy Bridge has already come out.

For me, the best upgrade option now would probably be core i5-2500k if you do not need hyperthreading.... smile.gif
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post Jan 5 2011, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(Duckies @ Jan 5 2011, 01:53 PM)
Yea,i have my own dilemma too figuring out which 1 to buy.Core i5 2500k or Core i7 2600k.
*
Why dilemma? If you don't use much multithreaded applications or applications that need more cores, the 2500k should be enough. What I realized about hardware is that you normally need not buy something "just in case" you need it in the future. If you don't use HT now, in most probability, you'll find out next time that you really didn't need it. wink.gif
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post Jan 5 2011, 03:31 PM

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QUOTE(Duckies @ Jan 5 2011, 03:10 PM)
It's true.I use my rig most of the time for gaming and i did check the benchmark between Core i5 2500k and Core i7 2600k.It seems the difference between them is less than 5 FPS for most of the games.Logically,for the best bang of the buck,i should go for Core i5 2500k.But my illogical brain side of me tells me that i would regret if i dont take Core i7 2600k now when in the future i will need it since i want my rig to last for 2-4 more years. XD
Dilemma of the dumb brain of mine  rclxub.gif
*
Haha, if you have the money, of course go for 2600k!!! biggrin.gif

Don't worry, this dilemma plagues us all. I still remember buying AMD athlon (socket 939) 3500+ years ago just because of it's 64-bit capability only to find out that 64-bit only became mainstream after many many MANY years!!!!
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post Jan 5 2011, 07:30 PM

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QUOTE(ashx @ Jan 5 2011, 04:20 PM)
Sweet-Mother-Of-What-Ever-is-Holy-to-you!!
*
Lol! First time I ever read this! laugh.gif

Yeah, your rig should last your another 1-2 years depending on your requirements in terms of fps.

Recold keeping for other purposes.
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4780336/+40
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...0#entry92793269

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4783294

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4783294/+40

Latest (both) : https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4614280/+1340

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4809476/+60

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4827328

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4660687/+400

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4198356/+220

TK : https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4660687/+320

Latest : https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4660687/+360

MX : https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3474045/+680

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3474045/+900

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4817908/+580

LT : https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4614280/+2060

AV: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4614280/+2140

uamcy:

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4614280/+2580

Chatter :

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4492449/+3460

LA : https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...#entry100534267

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


lt #5138: https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/4937032/+5120

This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 29 2022, 07:55 AM
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post Jan 5 2011, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(sakit @ Jan 5 2011, 08:16 PM)
thanks bro for article  rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif
*
wink.gif

QUOTE(DarkNite @ Jan 5 2011, 08:23 PM)
Bro, excellent thread but I'm bit confused about multithreading. Dun mind but can give a few examples of multithreaded applications or applications that need more cores?
*
Errmm.... example of apps that benefits are those that do media encoding (video/audio) and video rendering. e.g. mainconcept, premier pro , etc. Here's a more extensive list : http://www.dennis.se/smp/

Another example is folding@home where you will get lots of points if you have quad-core hyperthreading.

For games, there is a trend towards using more than 2 cores i.e. 3 or 4 cores. Look at this excellent review from Tomshardware : http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/game-p...ck,2738-16.html

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post Jan 6 2011, 09:50 AM

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QUOTE(DarkNite @ Jan 6 2011, 08:50 AM)
But that is just it!
Initial review by many sites seems to say media encoding (video/audio) and video rendering on 2600k is better and a lot cheaper than most of the core i7 9xx except for i7 980X!
I hope you can shed more light on this especially on CS5 Premier Pro.
cum see the source >> http://www.anandtech.com/show/4083/the-san...-2100-tested/17
*
Don't understand your question. The link do show that the 2600k is faster ma......

I don't know much about video/audio apps as I don't use them. wink.gif

Some benchmarks on premier pro :
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/xeon-x...-ep,2692-7.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/Intel-...em,2057-12.html

Probably can get more through googling wink.gif


This post has been edited by kmarc: Jan 6 2011, 11:15 AM

 

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