Taikor.Taikun
How accurate?
buddhism is x a religion but a philosophy
taoism = adopts buddhism adding on various rituals, deify past sages/heroes ?

This post has been edited by TiramisuCoffee: Apr 14 2023, 10:44 AM

GAUTAMA Buddha never said ' Light up joss sticks and oil lamp in front of my Statue and bow to me'. Gautama NEVER said this! Dont know who the 'wise guy' who thought it will be a good idea to hold 3 joss sticks, light up oil lamp and bow to Gautama's statue.
when I asked these ' Buddhists' why they do that... they all said cos their sifu said must do. Why their sifu said must do? cos the sifu's sifu also said must do.....and so on and so on. Buddha wants us to follow his teaching, not worship him! You understand or not?

All these joss sticks, oil lamp and bowing to him is NOT what he taught us. Humans are the ones who wanna be pandai and started creating this ritual. Why? The most common answer is : Oh...cos we wanna show respect to him....so we do all these la'.

Do NOT buta2 be a 'monkey see, monkey do' Buddhist. If you wanna follow Gautama's teaching, you do NOT light up joss sticks, oil lamp and bow to his statue. He never teach us to do this...so why you wanna do? just cos your sifu tells you to? Why be a 'Monkey see, monkey do' Buddhist?

If You can show me any proof that Gautama said we must Light up joss sticks, oil lamp and bow to his statue....then I will believe you.



This post has been edited by empire: Apr 14 2023, 11:31 AM

Buddhism is not a religion as it doesnt tell us to pray to any god.
Taoism is a religion as it involves praying to deities and spirits and
rituals are very important.

Both are different.

That is what western society says. They do not accept many concepts in Buddhism like karma, rebirth, even the existence of Buddhas n Bodhisatvas. When monks go to western countries, they are asked to avoid certain topics as western Buddhist followers r not interested n only prefer to learn about things like meditation, good conducts, how to develop compassionate minds… etc.

From experience, Italian love rituals. My guru would teach them the pujas n offering methods. But not in countries like Norway, Holland, Germany… they prefer theories. So, the teachings r more academic over there. When u say Buddhas n Bodhisattvas do really exist, they just smile n say they believe it is just a symbol m qualities we should strive for. Many to this day still asking can they be both Christian n Buddhist at the same time? And many of them see it as legit, can follow both. Some also question whether Thich Nhat Hahn really believe in karma… etc. just because he seldom bring up these topics in western public.

Those who r devoted n w “clean” minds will no doubt recognise Buddhism as religion

This post has been edited by Taikor.Taikun: Apr 14 2023, 11:52 AM

I think a lot of things were added on by followers after Buddha passed away. Some followers then became sifu and gave their 'inyterpretation' of what Buddha taught.

My wife is following the Pure Land tradition and she is so supersticious!! I follow the Theravada (Ajahn Chah) tradition and we always argue what Buddha taught. She tried to be vegetarian (i eat meat but don't eat a lot due to a healthier lifestyle).
She always gets angry when i bring up names of people who have died (she says the dead spirit will come and haunt me when they hear their names being mentioned ).

My wife always think she is Mahayana and i am the lower Theravada sect so her Mahayana is so much more higher than my lesser vehicle

This post has been edited by Garysydney: Apr 14 2023, 11:55 AM

Buddhism is never a religion. There is no ritual involved.... except by those 'monkey see, monkey do' Buddhists.

Religion is Anything that involves praying to Deities and spirits...with Rituals involved.

Buddhism is NEVER a religion.

Buddhism is just a way of life… a philosophy…?

Try to avoid into arguments with her as path of realizations would be different for each individual.There is no higher or lower, just method how to reach within ourself.

Agree with your analysis.

Sometimes we cannot see things happening too close to us - good to have people outside offering thir perspective.

Certainly the historical Buddha taught more than philosophy, he taught the Dhamma (natural law) that gives insight into the nature of existence, and karma/ rebirth/ realms of existence.

But you must understand, the ancient Buddha's teaching were mostly in ancient Pali language and have fused into the culture of burma / thailand and srilanka in their native language.

In the last few hundred years, with European powers in contact with Buddhism , their own intellectual people have looked at buddhism in very biased angle, and filtered out all the esoterism of the teaching and conclude it as just a philosophy.

With this conclusion, they write their books and opinion, in English language.

So naturally, in modern days, most people's opinion will be influenced by the western thinkers, which gave quite an inaccurate picture.

Yeah, you would find sometimes hard to communicate. For example a simple fact from you and 3rd party bears different results,even though the concept is same. it just like this person shutting down listen to you, while throughly accept if shared by other.

Correct. Only ' Monkey see, Monkey Do' Buddhists will hold joss sticks, burn oil lamp and bow to Buddha's statue ...as if he as is a god. This is soooo wrong!

dont be so extreme, the goal of Buddhism is to see and realize the ultimate reality of existence and thus free from any view of differentiation and attachment.

many things in Buddhism are just expedient means, some people need it, the rituals, customs etc so just be chill la. they feel that if dont burn incense prayer is not complete ( actually Buddhism doesn't even have prayer, no need to pray to Buddha), so let them burn loh. i do burn high quality chemical free incense at home coz it smells nice, nothing is wrong with offering incense and flower to Buddha, its considered good wholesome intention.

bow to the buddha is a form of respect, do it repetitively is also a form of exercise, plus awareness while bowing is meditation.

broaden your view and embracement for this kind of things, heck the whole blardy life is just an illusion, a dream.

This post has been edited by greyPJ: Apr 15 2023, 08:50 AM

Actually I had attended psychology trainings as a consultant in change management. I say everybody is different in wisdom common sense. Some people need rituals to believe. Some people will direct to the truth. No matter which approach, the result matters. Those didn't pray but follow the basic fundamental teachings is good in my opinion compared to those who prays but didn't follow the basic percepts and vice versa.
But of course some method will stray off over the years. Most important is we share our opinions sincerely and it's their affinity with Buddhism whether they accept or not.

When i was working in Sydney Uni, our dept allowed us a hour free meditation class to de-stress every week.

Our director was very pro-meditation as he has been practicing mindful meditation for a few years.

Mindful meditation is used in many 'psycho clinics' (pardon my crude exxpression ) to treat depression/anxiety in Aust.

true, mindful /walking meditation can alleviate alot of mental related illnesses such as anxiety.

i found that dean's professor of philosophy at University tend to be interested in Buddhism. the dean of philosophy at Macquarie university that time setup the first buddhist society at campus and at unsw pula a few of them are buddhists.

I am glad i have found Buddhism in my life - if i had not, i would have landed in cuckoo land.

I thought i had very good temperament when i was in Sydney. In Sydney, everything is so organised and we don't get much stress in day to day life. We became so used to doing our own thing. When i came back to KL, i realised how quick my temper flashed up when people cut me off when driving or when people jump queue when lining up. Now slowly with my constant moment-to-moment awareness, i have slowly learn not to react to unfair situations (like being bullied). All this thanks to my Buddhist teachings

As practising Buddhists, cultivate the practise of offerings is third in the practise of ten expansive n great practise n vows of virtues of Tathagathas. This is still practised even when one is reborn in Pure Lands. Incense offerings is taught by the Buddha n mentioned in sutras. That is why it is important to recite sutras regularly to dispel ignorance n increase wisdoms.

Buddha taught meditation methods to help its FOLLOWERS, be they monks or lay practitioners, attain enlightenment. That is the ultimate goal. For non-followers, they always see something else. What ever it is they see, gurus can only lead them one step at a time, with great patience n compassion, towards the great path

actually no one can say buddhism is a religion or philosophy or way of life ...
it is more depend on how u practice/perceive buddhism ...
just like eating fruit, u can eat as a snack or u can consider as your lunch/dinner ....

actually all these burning incense/oil lamp n pray to statue is more about getting good deed(fook tuck)...
n got nothing to do with buddhism cos even other religion or atheist they all also do the same n do charity n good deed too ...

buddhism is about the mind n not those thing outside of the mind ...