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Group LYN Buddhism Retreat - SERIOUS TALK, No trolling please

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Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 02:56 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 02:52 PM)
Well, human nature. smile.gif

Thats why one should not say no wars were waged in the name of buddhism. Its just so happen that its not convenient to do so.
*
thats why buddhists shouldnt keep insisting they're the best, the most advanced, the most peaceful...blah blah...

just explain and practice and show via example.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 03:23 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 03:17 PM)
Fighting between Mahayana and Theravada in Sri Lanka?  I think you should a bit on the civil war there.. it was India which was already hindu (mahayana already extinct in india at that time , driven up north ) taht invaded Sri Lanka, causing the order of the Nun of Theravada to be lost.

Mahayana never actually reached Sri Lanka.
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it did. there were statues of Tibetan Buddhas found in sri lanka as well. if mahayana never reached sri lanka, we wouldnt have this this staute would we? it was just the event of theravardans getting the favor of the king and kicking the mahayanists out and vice versa. in the end the theravardans won. this was during the 11th century.

QUOTE
Buddhism arrived in Sri Lanka in about the third century BC and has had a continuous history on the island ever since.  Sri Lanka is today a Theravada Buddhist country, like Burma, Thailand and Cambodia. However, this sculpture, and other Sri Lankan bodhisattva images are clear evidence for the presence in the medieval period of Mahayana Buddhism as well as the Theravada form of the faith.


This post has been edited by Joey-kun: Aug 19 2010, 03:23 PM
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 03:28 PM

no avatar plagarism plz, foxboy sez nuz
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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 19 2010, 03:10 PM)
which buddhist told u that?
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lol 2 pages ago someone did say no wars in the name of buddhism. what does that imply?

lets not be sneaky. in the end its not what we insist that people see, but what we do.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 03:32 PM

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QUOTE(teru @ Aug 19 2010, 03:21 PM)
Buddhist kingdoms have entered war before.
Ming-Kotte War

As to who started what, I've forgotten about it.  tongue.gif
Last time when I watched voyages of Zheng He on National Geographic, I think it started from a civil war for the possession of a Buddha relic.
Busy with the civil war, they didn't wanna pay tribute to China or something which got them destroyed by Zheng He  tongue.gif
Depends on the schools of teaching, the monks may be required to take a vow of not eating meat.

In ancient times, even Buddha ate meat. In fact, Buddha died from consuming tainted pork  biggrin.gif

Buddhist monks generally live on alms. People offer food to them and they were not allowed to choose their food and only consume what was offered (mostly leftovers).

Buddha allowed meat for his disciples under a condition, that is that his disciples did not know, or even suspect that the meat offered to the monk was done so by killing the animal solely for the purpose of offering them to the monks. It's kind of like in restaurants now where fishes are kept alive in aquariums and when you order that fish, they purposely kill the fish for you.

This is the difference between taking a life and eating meat.

However, there are Buddhist schools who are now arguing that the act of eating meat itself is creating more demands for meat, thus encouraging the killing of animals. You will see that some of the Thai monks, or even Nepalese monks eat meat. In general they eat what is offered.
*
the whole not eating meat thing is the bigger picture: that is to replenish the stocks of meat that you have ate, they would need to kill more. Also depends on the level of your Buddhist practice: if you want to save all beings would it be logical to eat their flesh while you're at it? Its like a doctor that works as a murderer at night.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 03:34 PM

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QUOTE(exsea @ Aug 19 2010, 03:30 PM)
erm, can people stop trolling "religious" threads? i mean like seriously if you wanna talk about religion the "understand religion thingy" thread can be found in the real life thread.

discussing about buddhism isnt really what this thread is for is it? its going out of topic. maybe a mod can help clear things out?
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ah well, the troll is gone. they usually do when nobody cares about them. people do get derailed sometimes after all this is kopitiam. would be different if it was in the real world thread. Then i can help people with their spiritual questions there, buddhists only of course lol
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 03:35 PM

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QUOTE(zstan @ Aug 19 2010, 03:33 PM)
gathering wealth n money through the proper ways is not wrong la. rclxub.gif

one must not attach to desire if you are a monk(but unfortunately most modern monks still have their own personal desires) or u really really really wanna strive to become the next arahant/Buddha.

for a lay Buddhist, its perfectly alright to have desires.
*
having desires is ok but what happens at the end of the day? that would be a more important question right. does it end or would you prefer to end it?
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 03:39 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 19 2010, 03:36 PM)
Actually, i have no teacher. LOL. I dun intend to dwell into the deeper studies, just the basic. IMO, Buddhism is like a formula. It's up to you how you use this formula and apply it. It's not like a typical God-based religion, where they emphasie to tell you what u can do and what you cannot. It's like, give a man fish, he'll eat for one meal. Teach him how to fish and he'll have the knowledge to support himself.

Just to share... when i was younger...during my 20's,  was looking for some answer...after studying different religious books for sometime, one night, while i was about to sleep, thinking about all this Buddhism thingy, suddenly i have like an experience where all the jigsaw puzzles fit into places...i can't explain it...mini-enlightment perhaps?? LOL. Anyway, from that day onwards. I simply know Buddhism is the path. smile.gif
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without a teacher there's no one to guide you. After all the Buddha appeared as a teacher. how would you ever know if your formula is correct if you do not do enough research and testing or have a guide? thus the importance of a teacher in Buddhism.

To understand the deeper aspects, like any other religion Buddhism also demands that you commit to it, take up vows and change your thinking. Just that the outcome is very different that from what you'd get from other religions.


Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(Matrix @ Aug 19 2010, 03:38 PM)
It doesn't happens overnight....it might takes many lifetime for one to be ready to finally leave all desires behind....I know i am not ready this lifetime. It can wait. No hurry.
*
it can wait but what about other beings and loved ones who are affected from it? leaving desires behind is not about being a monk, its simply to stop putting emphasis on them in your life.

a more experienced practitioner would tell you that you're just using it as an excuse to not practice deeper.

its not that Dharma teachers have physic powers but its just that they're very sharp and can see through people and excuses easily. That is why we need a teacher to break our own mental and spiritual limitations.

This post has been edited by Joey-kun: Aug 19 2010, 03:44 PM
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 03:50 PM

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QUOTE(ayamkambing @ Aug 19 2010, 03:41 PM)
dreamer101 from Zen buddhism may not agree.

to him, if it works for you, then it works...no need bother about teacher, sutras and guides.. blink.gif
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if he's happy its okay. different people different goals. I need to be more robust and my mind needs to be more advanced to help more people.

QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 03:41 PM)
OK, the statue showed us that Mahayana buddhism did reach Sri Lanka but how do you draw conclusion that there was a war between Theravada sect and Mahayana in Sri lanka from that statue alone?

Kindly provide links of the war, all I read is just civil war, and invasion from India which wiped out most buddhist monks at that time, that they needed to import the Monks from burma to reintroduce the THeravada lineage there.
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here: http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2007/2/12560_space.html
and here: http://sigiriya.org/89.htm

but its not really too important. because it dosent benefit anyone. Also most sri lankans and theravardans would not acknowledge this anyway. The wars were more political in nature and not warlike.

This post has been edited by Joey-kun: Aug 19 2010, 03:52 PM
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 03:41 PM)

The invasion of the arabs in the 10th century and coperation with local hindus opposed to the Buddha's teaching sealed the demise of Buddhism in INdia. Unfortunate.
*
Buddhism in india died with the sacking of the world's first University: the Nalanda University. It took 6 months to burn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda

Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 04:06 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 04:04 PM)
here: http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2007/2/12560_space.html

This is an opinion from a reader, not a historical datasheet, but then history are written by the victors. Possible for the local Sinhalese to resist any outside attempt to convert them.

http://sigiriya.org/89.htm

This link shows us that Mahayana buddhism definitely reach Sri Lanka, but what about the history of war between Theravada and mahayana?
*
i cant find any links to prove it but why is it important again?

perhaps Robert Thurman would know. I'm not too interested because it dosent help much in actual practice. It's just general knowledge to prove that its not a religion problem, its a people problem.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 04:11 PM)
I think it's more to the Ethnicity problem where the local Sinhalese were Theravada and they may have tried to resist the outsiders who might have been hindu-mahayana. ANyway, looks like a ethnic war rather than a religious war.

But then, Sri Lanka is the cradle of Theravada buddhism> without them, Burma and thailand will not be a theravada country today. smile.gif
*
actually, they got their sources from Nalanda as well and have kept the practice alive. the whole 'religious' issue was more political of nature and was more about gaining the king's favor.

traces of this 'war' can be found in some tibetan buddhist literature: http://www.khandro.net/deities_female_paldenlhamo.htm

note that this isnt exactly accurate; its a myth. the actual origins of Palden Lhamo is far more simpler and less scandalous.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 04:29 PM)
hard to verify. What exactly happened in INdia also at that time that caused the decline of buddhism was also not well understood. Some scholars said that the local Buddhism in India evolved slowly , incorporating more and  more of Hinduism practices until the end there wasn't anything that is buddhist anymore. The Islamic invasion in the 10th century also destroyed many records in the buddhist universities, and sealed the end of buddhist era there.
*
it was actually the other way round. also during that time as recorded in some histories the abbots of Nalanda was declining and this contributed to the decline of Buddhism in india.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 04:31 PM)
sad.... many monks were killed at that time. Surely the people who commit such acts will be in Avici already
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it was because the monks eventually became lax in their Dharma practice and lost focus. this kinda triggered the whole thing to happen. In any case, there must be an end to everything so this was more or less eventual.

oh well..at least it produced Nagajurna, Vimalakirti, Chandrakirti, Shantideva, Atisha, and so many other great scholars.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(soul2soul @ Aug 19 2010, 04:45 PM)
I read there were some political motive behind it. The local tribes opposed to Buddha's teaching also colluded with the invaders to put the final nail to the coffin.

But we should be glad, that buddhism was able to propagate beyond the shores of INdia (nortwards to china/tibet) and southward/eastwards to Sri Lanka/southeast asia.
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Thats more or less the important point. And that the practices and teachings were intact and well perserved.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 08:38 PM

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QUOTE(xecton @ Aug 19 2010, 05:45 PM)
Hi guys, I have a question. And this is not trolling.

As far as I know, monks (Theravada only or all?) are not allowed to wear underwear.
The reason is that Buddha don't want his followers to have attachment to their clothings, so all must wear the orange robe. So since they haven't invent underwear at that time, it is not in their "uniform".

But why the commando practice still goes on today in the modern age? Why not wear underwear now?
Isn't holding on to the old practice for the sake of the old practice is an attachment?

I may have made some assumptions above. If I'm mistaken in any part, it's because of my lack of knowledge. Don't flame me.
*
commando practice is because cloth between the legs may cause excitement.

however it is a minor vow, and can be disregarded depending on the circumstances i.e when there are greater needs. For example in monasteries in tibet (now dharamsala) older monks do wear underwear as it makes it easier for younger monks to help wash them.
Joey-kun
post Aug 19 2010, 10:28 PM

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QUOTE(xecton @ Aug 19 2010, 09:59 PM)
shakehead.gif  shocking.gif  rclxub.gif  shakehead.gif  shocking.gif  rclxub.gif
What? I never feel excited wearing underwear everyday... I'll feel more excited if I don't wear.
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when the cloth rubs against certain parts..oh well

maybe it did for people of that time so yeah we respect yah
Joey-kun
post Aug 20 2010, 06:21 AM

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QUOTE(exsea @ Aug 20 2010, 03:11 AM)
anyway regardless of everything previously wrote (i read the 1st page) but i still need to ask.

what is the purpose of this thread? i initially thought this thread was about buddhist retreats, u know... place where people go to meditate?
*
i think its something like a place for buddhists to talk about buddhist stuffs. but of course trolls and derailments happen.
Joey-kun
post Aug 20 2010, 08:57 AM

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*goes back to an actual Buddhist forum while watching this one going to the trolls*
Joey-kun
post Aug 20 2010, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(gogo2 @ Aug 20 2010, 09:01 AM)
Those who rojak Buddhist and Christian cannot make up their damn mind... lolol
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dont care about them la. people can do what they want. its like convincing a salesperson that his product sucks. nobody will believe lah and we're just wasting time.

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