lol....now if im against muta baneling i will go for a bald FE too.....cuz 1 base terran vs full map control zerg is very hard, maybe only 1 base mech push can work out, if you hit at the sweet timing. im not that familiar with zerg timing yet so i just throw down a FE and play 2 base to 2 base....havent found 1 perfect solution to punish zerg for doing muta ling yet....maybe blue flame hellion 2 fac reactor + 2 weapon can work out XD force enemy to transition into roach hydra, hence lower muta count?

early heavy hellion almost 100% force zerg to play roaches. he cant play lings all the way till muta pops out...even if he eventually play muta, the muta count oso drop liao cuz roaches without upgrade will kena rape by terran too...mm....just thinking....but FE on jungle basin is easier XD i will go fark you for christmas on blistering sand....

ya, i kena once b4, he just do enuf roaches to fend off my hellions, den i overreacted to tank, marauders and banshee, he just used muta to rofl me....hmm.....i think im going to experiment a new strategy tonight...

had u all tried.......fast reactor starport? mass vikings about same amount as muta, from theory, same amount of viking wins muta so u can get air control, get alot of free overlords, force zerg to hydra. no hydra = instant GG. the default way to win hydra is no creep spread....hydra without creep lose to anything. with creep tank would be the hard counter. but i think a splinter of raven to clear creep + infantry will be enuf........will try with build order tester later....and now you get map control, zerg have 0 map control (imagine u kena contain by muta harrass at 2 mineral line....same situation for zerg now....sounds orgasms enuf for me)

if not, maybe marine raven build from team liquid?

but if im playing on lost temple, i nvr had issue with zerg, just cliff drop the hell of him!!! thorship build almost never lose on close air position....

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Added on December 3, 2010, 1:27 pmwon a 1600 diamond zerg at metalopolis today.....but im trying to convince myself i won not because he resisted to out muta XD its in custom game tho....maybe he want to try to win a terran without muta....XDD

what i tried in that game, reactored marine hellion turtle in base, throw a scan at my....2nd/3rd 50 mana? saw he transfering drone, i noe he is just building up his econ, i throw down my expo and push out with marine hellion. saw alot of static defence (5+ spine and lings). now i know he is turtling in 2 base to build up econ for a massive push (i thought was muta) so start to produce medivec start to drop rines and hellions at his base to keep him in his foot (+ his statis defence got no use against drops) and i start to build up siege tanks, raven, marauders.....while still constantly pressuring with marine and hellions with drops....then i put a hellion at all possible 3rd expo position, and use all my force to deny his 3rd. use all i can to deny 3rd....and a 3rd is very important to zerg so he kept on trying to get 3rd also...he tried 3-4 times and i noe i won adi after denying 3 times.....cuz he is desperate for money but he cant make it...while i adi have 3 bases and building up my 4th....basically i just wait him to starve and push me with ultras, den bam, massive push and won.

tl:dr, in tvz i think my new mindset is

-pressuring with early units (drops, hellions, rines) to keep him on his foot + full map control with hellions
-dun lose in economy, my natural expo must be up, then i can support splinter ambush + bunkers siege tanks to defend myself.
-winning point, wait him go for 3rd (a sign he is starving) then destroy his 3rd at all cost. then take a 3rd urself.


afterall, he didnt out muta so i think my statements will be harder to do if they went muta XD need about 2 turrents and thors to defend...=(

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Dec 3 2010, 01:27 PM

-mule, get raven. raven is just as good as ghost in tvp....its essential....observer is like maphack...and if u kill one, its 100 gas 100 mineral gone for him, 2 observers and you earn urself back the cost of raven. not to mention PDD = no stalker. not to mention you can play mass cloak banshee because they have no observer. not to mention you can deny DT.

omg, i mentioned too much....raven is the coconut of tvp. 101 usages.







and.......u need 1 only. 1-1-1, 1st unit raven, then continuous banshee production =)

but it actually cost alot because Terran build scv slower than probe and drone....by ALOT, i mean build time. so terran is at a natural disadvantage without mule, u need mule to even out with other race....

with chronoboost and stockpile larvae, why not.

-gladfly not true after high plat-diamond.

my point was about sacrificing mules for scans......so scans are not free.

i came from a bronze. i think its through lurking in forums, watch tons of videos.....playing 100 starcraft games straight up doesnt work that well for me....give urself some rest by watching day9 and reading teamliquids....

owh ya, another thing i find very useful is by downloading a sc2 replay from korean pro, a very standard short 10 min game (lets say 3 rax push, 4 gate, mutaling at steppes, blistering and str8 win) and write down all the important timings and play again with easy AI, then try to follow the timing. lets say......4 min pop down 3 rax, 8 min pop spire, 5.50 4 gate complete with x stalker y zealot.....try to find a str8 forward pro game and immitate the game.

a very clear sign of improving is.......after resting for 48 hour from ladder, get a 5 win streak. den u will start to win lose win lose again, then rest and improve again, then go for another streak....


my 2 cents.

talk to rotijohn

IIRC pre GSL interview IdrA said he thinks he can keep on move forward until he meet the likes of Cool or Tester...which means although yes he is super confident to think he is very very favored he still doesnt think he is unbeatable in the entire universe.

maybe in scbw when he was the only great white hope he was much more arrogant...cuz no1 who doesnt speak korean is btr than him.

3 rax is not a FE build cuz with 3 rax constantly producing unit u cant get 400min for a FE. 2 rax FE is the common tvp strategy where you put techlab on 1st rax and reactor on 2nd.

theres 2 common variation of 2 rax FE.

1st is the common one, once techlab finish 1 marauder and conc shell. push out at 1 raud 2 rine and engage when conc finsih, most of the time you can get a free stalker on the field cuz protoss will 90% chrono out the 1st stalker in pvt to deny scouting + map control. a fast raud conc can get that free 1 kill. then throw down CC in base or if u feel bald just build at nat. but if toss early pressure, just use CC as part of wall.

2nd variation is what painuser and select do alot. cr8 a reaper once techlab finish for scouting. the timing of the reaper will be just nice to see toss's tech path, (2 gate robo, 4 gate, fast twilight council, hidden starport). den u noe wat to do lol, if they 4 gate then bunker up and tech to cloak banshee. if not, FE. reaper gives good map control. u need more micro tho...

from your explanation, its more like the.....contain and expand tactic, its a safe way to play, like those casters mention, expand when you push. im imagining now u basically expand at 38-40ish supplies with 15 infantries containing him...

u can actually continue to do this strat until you find it not working anymore. from my wild guess, ways to refine it.

-pull 3 scv and build bunker turrents as contain, best position should be out of his ramp shooting range and close enuf to make sure he doesnt expand at his nat. *while u are expanding* so now its 2 base v 1.

most of the time a toss who knows whats up will tech up to collosus and break ur contain when terma lenses are completed so always follow up with a reactored starport right after CC up and pump vikings before its too late =) marauders do pretty well against collosus too if they get in range.

they cant fund high templar with only 1 base so its still ok but if they get HT, its pretty much over adi....unless u get enuf ghosts and micro them correctly.

another possibility is warpgate/proxy pylon backstab ur vulnerable base, put 2-3 rines at strategic fly paths to spot warp gates...for proxy pylons.......scout more =) theres no strategy with 0 weaknesses.

im still learning tvz too, although theres alot of good builds in team liquid but still havent found 1 that suites me....

u can try raven marine build which emphasizes in massing marines to trade gas army from zerg and eventually make zerg gas starved.

4OC on 2 base build, (exploit mules that doesnt mineral harvesting stack with SCV, having 2 base with 4OC can get mineral as fast as a 3.5 base zerg) spam hellion and marines.

1-1-1 hellion harrass into banshee harrass into 100 food big push

maybe theres some forumers here very comfortable in tvz can share protips. especially on terran unfavored maps....

theres alot of builds but i still havent come up with 1 very comfortable =((( tvz is still my weakest ring.

but basically rule of thumbs, put a scv at their nat, if theres no FE, btr bunker up no matter wat...1 base muta, 1 base bane all in, 1 base +1 slings, 1 base 7RR all these shits if you know its coming, you can D it, then you win eventually. if they FE, FE to follow up too, at least u wont need to sked about early aggressions.

This post has been edited by quest_5692: Dec 17 2010, 06:14 PM

umm...i had some trouble with ling all ins too......let it be dimaga +1 sling 3 hatch all in or kyrix 2 base baneling bust....these all ins are too hard to scout. zerg can pretty much switch gear anytime, stop drone mass ling or stop ling mass drone...

i couldnt think of btr idea than sieged up tanks and bunkers to D choke points...den 2-4 medivec drops at both base and lift up once ling ball arrive...

FML terran has no forcefield.

i find marine rush without more than 3 scv fails badly to a 11overpool 18 hatch build...

-jeff, timber is a vli pro terran, if u find him become sifu, 1 month can tapau all of us adi

marineking just raped 5-0 protoss player (without mc)....

while IMMVP did a 5-0 to zerg.

anywhere ELSE to get the replay?

i think it would work only on small maps like steppes? but you should be at least 1 harvester up because you are in defending position. maybe need to use repair to stay longer. and actually it doesnt require too much micro to make sure your barrack is building. if the worker die d, put another one in. if your scv is in red, press T to change worker oso can.


anyway interesting cheese, no matter wats the result, you can scold your opponent has no self respect for playing cheese. especially a zerg.

at least give a name for the map -.- jungle basin or blistering sand? its green or dessert?

well after he cheese he still dare to scold you, gimme his chac code and name.

anyway you would ALWAYS noe its coming because your scouting scv should be jalan-jalaning in his base till you saw suddenly he pulls off the mineral lline.