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 The Zerg Strategy v1.0, Cheer for the overmind!

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evofantasy
post Jan 14 2012, 01:15 AM

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QUOTE(A-Note @ Jan 14 2012, 12:58 AM)
do you guys like always keep your infestor burrowed? =/
*
no cause i prefer to fungal ASAP upon any sight of units
evofantasy
post Jan 16 2012, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(quest_5692 @ Jan 16 2012, 02:29 AM)
ultralisk is the legal way to match fix a game. because whoever make ultralisk loses.

it always sucked. but recently DRG start to popularize an ultra crackling infestor baneling timing push in ZvT. very cool build but IMO tight timing and hard to micro. its hard to position ultras to be effective and 1 wrong movement the whole pack of expensive unit will just die.


Added on January 16, 2012, 2:30 amby recently i mean maybe 2weeks+
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i think it would depends now. most players now realize the potential of ultralisks better (ling infestor) or hit tech changes. i recently saw a lot of games where they use ultras to destroy the terran's production buildings due to the splash and its great.
evofantasy
post Jan 16 2012, 05:44 PM

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QUOTE(chahupping @ Jan 16 2012, 05:40 PM)
u cant build above a burrowed unit. smile.gif
*
^ this
lots of ppl burrow lings or burrow 2 blings next to it so when u build 1 bling explosion = no cancel as well
evofantasy
post Jan 16 2012, 05:59 PM

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QUOTE(FLampard @ Jan 16 2012, 05:47 PM)
so if a protoss or terran fella come and build his building, and it cant be built , they will know there is a burrowed unit there?
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only will be known when the worker reached there... so yeah tat's how it is known...
it is the same case for landing buildings, Jjaki float his rax and random land his rax vs leenock in GSL finals to detect bling landmines (leenock is known to do landmines)...
evofantasy
post Jan 17 2012, 08:59 PM

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QUOTE(quest_5692 @ Jan 17 2012, 08:35 PM)
infamous DRG ultra ling infestor timing again against sc. sc got no chance to defend. calling it now.
*
DualSight is DRG's turf lolx
evofantasy
post Jan 25 2012, 06:58 PM

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QUOTE(A-Note @ Jan 25 2012, 06:16 PM)
yea and terran too... its rare to see protoss vs zerg in youtube streams =/ always see pvt only one sad.gif and uhh isit wise for me to double deny my opponent's geyser with extractor? will it be able to delay like warpgate/factory?
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no it wont delay, but it will delay stargate and starport
evofantasy
post Jan 26 2012, 01:20 PM

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People don't double gas steal. Not worth it, only single usually. It limit their tech choices and allow you to scout.
evofantasy
post Jan 28 2012, 02:58 PM

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from my personal opinion, i wont suggest opening with a hatch first in ZvP...

this is how a protoss typically FFE in PvZ...
scout at 9pylon...
that probe will scout the pool timing and depending on the timing, the protoss can either 15nexus (pool at 14 or slower), 14forge (early pool) and react accordingly...
the moment the protoss see a hatch first, the protoss is free to do anything (nexus -> gate -> forge then only cannon which is a BIG difference)...
one of my fav thing (and most other high lvl protoss) like to do is the 3pylon block wit a single cannon...
this put the protoss immensely ahead and he can secure his natural wit mere 3 cannons (3 cannons well placed can handle ling/ roach allin with ease)...
and this type of play is really common, it is not a cannon rush which win games downright but it will create a economical snowball effect for the protoss...
in the end, the zerg would need to invest on lings (without speed) which cost larvae and totally make the hatch first useless...
with tat said, u rarely see zergs (high level zergs) open with hatch first anymore due to this...
it is a high risk, low return in ZvP...

by going hatch first as well, ur speed will be significantly delayed...
i am not sure about the protoss below diamond, but whenever i see a gasless zerg i could confidently play as greedy (eco/ tech) as i want as the zerg cant do anyhting to punish me early on...
i can even put the pressure back to him by chrono-ing out my stalker since i know he don't have speed...
with decent micro without ling speed, 1zeal 1stalker can deal tonne of pressure (MC famously streamed his EU game where he killed the zerg off 1 gate worth of chrono units with micro due to the lack of gas from zerg)..
if u dun die to the pressure, losing the map control and scouting information totally hurt ur gameplay a lot as a zerg especially larvae management...

usually when u hatch first, one of the queen would be creeping instead of spawning larvae due to the insufficient resource to use the additional larvae as opposed to a pool first (assuming u do the build n macro right)...
thus as said before, it is high risk for low return...

again, it would depend on styles but those are the current metagame concerning FFE...
this is especially crucial in tournaments map (fixed spawn positions) which allow the 9pylon scout to gain a lot of information and do all of the mentioned above compared to the retarded spawn on ladder...

@entaro
MC is well known to do the 3 pylon cannon build in tournaments...
a few other protoss does it as well...
that is how cannon are used, high level protoss dun win outright wit cannons (and no combatex and deezers are bad example since they dun even join tournaments lolx)
u see it less in GSL since most zergs like DRG opens wit gas pool builds...
EU zergs prefer gasless pool builds...

and queens are not enough to hold off stargate play...
double stargate is still a very very popular build and u will need spores...

=====

personally i dun like to FFE anymore since zergs started going 14gas 14pool and there are risk to FFE without overcommiting to defense unless i managed to sneak some scouting...
after getting punished over and over by good zergs, i made my own PvZ build which is not FFE but good enough to beat most zergs...

ps: i am in the wood league, i dun ladder so dun jz take my word for it =p me noobie that still join tournaments to get owned T.T

=====

unless u are master in NA, dun bring NA into discussion...
their skill level is generally low from bronze to diamond compared to SEA that i can random my way to a 8-0 streak with ease even when i am having 1-2sec delay...


Added on January 28, 2012, 3:03 pm
QUOTE(A-Note @ Jan 28 2012, 01:17 AM)
wow lol which match isit? i wanna watch xD
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to be fair, naniwa didnt blindly nexus first...
he always scout at 9, and use a 2nd probe for 3 spawn maps...
he then chrono his first 2 zeal to pressure n scout...

naniwa play one of the nicest PvZ imho...
just tat he is stubborn wit his FFE =.=
as he said on his twitter "forge fast expand or die trying"

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Jan 28 2012, 03:18 PM
evofantasy
post Jan 28 2012, 05:03 PM

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QUOTE(A-Note @ Jan 28 2012, 03:47 PM)
archons are pretty scary when you have loads of muta =/
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dun engage the archons...
jz run around them keep harassing etc...
get tonnes of base and be ready for roach/BL transition
evofantasy
post Feb 2 2012, 09:13 PM

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QUOTE(Swordsmen @ Feb 2 2012, 04:42 PM)
muta are easily die to especially to void ray, now i,m more to mass stalker, before this always like to mass hydra smile.gif
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nope, the key to playing muta is getting a critical number as they scale better in big groups (around 16+)...
after that, only storm and archons are the solution to mutas (provided u keep ur upgrades well)...
evofantasy
post Feb 3 2012, 12:45 AM

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QUOTE(Swordsmen @ Feb 2 2012, 11:44 PM)
ya guys on what league? now i'll play at us region
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i'm in wood leauge
evofantasy
post Feb 3 2012, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(quest_5692 @ Feb 3 2012, 07:56 AM)
whats ur problem? league? download korean pro replays and learn from them. immitate what they are doing, keep on doing the same thing over and over again against computer. (if you are protoss or terran). if zerg, its more of not missing spawn larvae. use a clock or reminder or wtv to remind you every 20~ seconds. spread creep, spend money...
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for me, unless u are diamond and get stuck; just focus on scouting and macro...
u can macro and a-move all the way to diamond...
evofantasy
post Feb 4 2012, 12:22 AM

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QUOTE(The Amateur Working Bee @ Feb 3 2012, 09:32 PM)
QFT

too bad my fingers so stiff and my reaction is slow, i think this is the reason why im always stuck at silver max lol

my macro is as bad as a stale cracker
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i find that most players just overcomplicated stuffs thinking about which unit compo with the right ratio, the counter to this, counter to that, fancy builds, heavy micro...
just keep ur macro up and scout accordingly and u can get really far in SC2...
evofantasy
post Feb 8 2012, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(yuvster @ Feb 8 2012, 12:16 PM)
ugh.. stress.. i need to find a balance between my 1v1 and my 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4.. ><
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playing 3v3 4v4 usually mess up ur 1v1 and vice versa...
it is kinda different playstyle (i always get my teammates emo when i go macro mode in team games and we get rushed lolx)...
evofantasy
post Feb 8 2012, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(TheNameX @ Feb 8 2012, 04:45 PM)
Want to ask, how do you counter against sentry + stalker ??

I had one of this game vs this combo and I lost the engagement even though I have more roaches (a bit more, not by a far margin). What my opponent did is keep spamming the sentry's wall to block off my roaches at the ramp and splitting my forces into two and pick them off separately. He's using stalker range > roaches range to gg me.
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1. burrow (commonly used vs the 6-7 gates all in)
2. infestors
evofantasy
post Feb 8 2012, 11:09 PM

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QUOTE(TheNameX @ Feb 8 2012, 09:30 PM)
Burrow ?? Burrow then moved through the wall you mean ??
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from what u told me, it sound like a 6-7 gate +1 allin timing off 2 base...
with that, there is no observers...
the allin works well by using FF to isolate and pick off the units of the zergs little by little...
using burrow, u can run away or move towards the army and thus dealing loads of damage to his army...
the moment u defended the push or kill a significant amount of sentry, u should win the game since the protoss spent too much gas on sentries and is really late on tech...
evofantasy
post Mar 9 2012, 01:48 PM

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that doesnt work...technically it is 1 base vs 1 base which favor protoss...
as long as protoss jz tech accordingly, the zerg is dead...
dun forget we can warp in anywhere on the map, so the contain actually does ntg...

there is another strategy used a lot in competitive lvl (GSL etc) which is to hatch at opponent's natural when u scout a FFE...
the creep (and u made a queen to creep tumor) delay his expo while his tech is slower cause he went forge first...
in ur base, u jz do like normal and grab ur natural...
evofantasy
post Mar 9 2012, 06:55 PM

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QUOTE(yuvster @ Mar 9 2012, 06:35 PM)
hmm.gif That sounds extremely interesting.. But will him rushing for a cannon beat a hatch popping up hmm.gif ? Does sound plausible though..
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if he cannon ur natural, u can stop it wit ur drone as always...
in his natural, u can chose to cancel the hatch when almsot near completion but usually when the cannon is up the hatch will survive regardless...
if he doesnt wall, ur can jz make ling n run through his base...

i forgot which game which it work before but leenock did this on MC...
MC handled it perfectly though but the concept is similar...


evofantasy
post Mar 13 2012, 05:20 PM

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i would always say, start with mechanics...
watch day9's tutorial on mechanics and that is the basic to everything u gonna do in sc2
evofantasy
post Mar 16 2012, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(yuvster @ Mar 16 2012, 12:46 PM)
How do you deal with a turtling Terran who's not doing anything but just scanning you from time to time to see what you have and just not moving out at all?

I've taken a lot of expos and droned up like a crazy person and all but the army composition is just really difficult to beat when the Terran has a max army with full Mech support..

Infestors a bit harder for me to work with because I can't really position them good enough for some solid Fungal Growths..
*
i think u did the right thing wit ur expansions...
depends how many base they have though...
generally if they are on 3 base turtle, u can jz go 5 base BL/ corruptor/ infestor...
then store up ur larvae to remax if needed...

while u are getting there, be annoying wit ur mutas/ ling/ blings...
it will tax the opponent multitasking while u slow down their mech...

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