i change my semi syn these days at ~5-6k km.
i sincerely believe that the additives last waaaay longer than what i am doing my OCI at.

at least my engine never felt sluggish unlike the mainstream crap i've used. mineral or semi synthetic

also, i did double quoted "sifu"
and that was the past when i was using crap mainstream oils.

so chill the f*** out?

so, mainstream oil making my engine sluggish at 3-4k km, means i need to OCI at 3-4k km? thats actually more expensive than me going good semi syn at 5-6k km bro.

thought you dont want us to go overboard?

your oci should stick with manufacturer recommended mah. regardless of what oil u use as long as its decent and meets the manufacturer's spec.

that, and he did not addressed on good engine oil that serve majority of continental cars that has their manufacturer recommendation of 10k km (or more)

so, if the oil is going to be sluggish or have its additives breaking down etc, are the manufacturers stupid? or the engine oil companies are lying/scamming crooks?

i dont think brands like shell are cap ayam brand and i am pretty sure they have the latest API certifications too

it's not so much PROBLEM i am talking here. the engine may very well still operate, and gets you from point a to point b. however if that's all i want, like i said, i'll just take a public transport.

as hard as it may see for you to believe, my aged old iswara can redline on demand pretty easily, and that car can go 160km/h without too much effort (it takes a lil time, that's all)

when i am having crappy "non-cap-ayam" oils in my engine, past 3-4k km its that much harder to even push a red line rev, and i am not even sure if my car did anything past 150km/h before needing to slow down due to traffic or i need to make a turn and so forth.

we're not talking about ferrari's either however it is still apparent that DESPITE butt dyno's going on, a smoother engine is a smoother engine. pushing redline and going at 160km/h is just that, and without better engine oil that doesn't happen. it is as SIMPLE as that.

bottom line: point a to point b driving, i really cannot give a shit.

as salam,
either 5000km,10000km,15000km or even 20000km OCI, all are depend on what type of base oil been use by manufacturer.....the rule is simple....the pure the base oil, the better the oil retain it fresh property...

also depend from where is the additive package come from??the good the additive package, the better the engine oil..
last time using synthetic blend one, i manage to get 17000km....so i sending the oil for UOA(via my sifu)....and the result was unbelievable...the oil still can be use actually, the VI not degrade so much, the TBN also in good number, the viscosity/grade is not degrade so much....
what are your engine oil base oil purity?? 

sarjantulang

that's why i mention before it depend from which company the additive are come from....

pure base oil + good additive package will give longer OCI for your EO....and superb performance for the engine...

and it is also depend on how your engine feel after reach at certain KM...if it still smooth and give the performance you want, then why not give a extended OCI??

if you say the additive can last 10000km, then why some of the engine oil are still give the good result and performance to the engine after reach more than 10000km??

i have a friend using a good mineral oil for 20000km OCI....4 times already repeat that OCI....he is very satisfied with the eo...
engine oil especially from very2 good and realiable brand maker are specialy blend with high performance additive that can last longer...it is not from the early age of engine oil are invented....the technology are keep improve and the engineer and tribologist are doing what their capable of in produce some of the most performance EO

then again, grab one of the most reliable name in EO, then give a try....brand like Motul, Redline, Torco, Liqui Moly and others are known to give a very good OCI and extended drain interval....

just my 34.5sen
sarjantulang

again base on what data we can determine the additive life?in the western world avg 50,000 km OCI for diesel engine is very normal  (of course together with VOA & UOA), and many had recorded million miles without engine failure.

why always "Assuming??"....why not give the real life field test??

but yes i agree...."recommended by OEM"....

like Proton, they state for Saga BLM, OCI is every 10000km.....then if you use, cheapo mineral oil, are you dare to do that??

oh so you DO OCI at 10k km! and not half a million km!
then why were you harping about half a million km half a million km day in day out?

some more when people (like me) are OCI'ing at 5k km, according to manufacturer, you still point fault at that.
lol?

and of course, lorry/trucks (or large vehicles...?), do you like umm... i dunno redline the thing and whack corners with it?

hope you at least see the point some of us (like me) has been trying to point out

Dear Optiplex, am very sure that no additive being added during the 50k OCI. Again when we talking about mineral and Cap Ayam, we also need to understand type of mineral base oil group..there are group I, II, II+ and III (UCBO = Group III also can be clasified as synthetic, today). Lets take Caltex Delo range as example, Delo 400 and Delo Silver SAE 15W/40 http://www.sjk.com.my/specifications/Delo400m.pdf & http://www.sjk.com.my/specifications/Delo_Silver_MG.pdf.

Delo 400 with famous Isosyn base oil http://www.parmanenergy.com/what-is-isosyn.html and Delo Silver with group I base oil.
 
This is not cap ayam, which model will protect your engine better?

so does larger oil sump, by-pass filter help restore additives to achieve longer OCI? are the manufacturer crazy for recommending long OCI's?

Larger oil sump, a better base oil, balance additive package and good filtration do play their part for engine component protection and longer OCI.

what you said:
what i asked:
so again, does the additives regenerate itself by having bigger oil sump?
in what equation of your math shows that additive has a loop iteration on regeneration?

what your math example showed is how larger oil sumps can sustain more combustion by product/carbon etc
it never have any indication on how it can achieve better longevity on your precious additives.

so care to change your statement a little that additives are NOT THE ONLY THING that determines an OCI?

so care to change your statement a little that additives are NOT THE ONLY THING that determines an OCI?

problem to that "assumption":
having more additives when your base oil amount and oil sump is significantly larger does not directly relate to longer lasting additives, it just doesn't work that way.

take water, and milo powder as examples:
you put 500ml of water (base oil), with 50 gram milo power (additives), that's 1 glass (take a proton oil sump)
this time you need to serve for a a few friends. so you have a larger container, like a water bottle or something, at 1 liters. then obviously you'll use 1l water, then 100gram milo power, correct? everything doubled in relative.

now does the milo taste changes? no, it does not.
does this changes the period where the milo drink goes stale/bad? No. The glass of milo will go bad just about the same time the 1l bottle milo would.


Assuming you have a pipe dripping water (contaminant from petrol combustion). A 5 liter bucket will get filled in 1 hour. Surely a 10 liter bucket will take more than 1 hour to fill. Ditto OCI.

Another analogue. Washing dirty laundry. Surely 10 liter water can wash more dirty laundry than 5 liter water, may be not twice as much but definitely more. The more engine oil you have, the more soot from petrol combustion it can suspend/handle, hence longer OCI


in relative to engine additives, having more additives while at the same time the volume of base oil increases, does NOT result in longer OCI. Yes, it will be longer. 50 gm additives in 500 ml vs 100 gm in 1000 ml. The later will makes OCI longer, may be not double but longer nevertheless

conclusions:
- additives are not the only thing that determines an OCI. Yes, other thing determine OCI like oil filter. But additives is generally the thing that determines OCI
- not all additives are the same be it the types/functions of additives, and the volume of it. (hence why "boutique" brand are so much more expensive than mainstream engine oil). Yes, that is why I only use mineral oil from reputable manufacturer, no Cap Ayam brand)
in other words, what pumpman said earlier sums up the requirement for longer OCI/engine protection:

none of it is more important than the other.

you cannot just ignore one aspect in favor of the other.

hell, if you're following manufacturer's recommendations, it isnt even about additives package anymore (aside from the basic API ratings etc). it is merely the engine specifications (such as the oil sump), which entirely contradicts what you said.

mainstream brands such as shell definitely have the latest API ratings, however their engine oil can barely run smooth around the 3k/4k km mark. while expensive non mainstream engine oils can EASILY run way after the 6k km mark (longest ive dragged my OCI was nearly 7k km using those oils. barely any performance degradation)

We are comparing Mineral and Synthetic in general, not different brand. If like that, I can say there is some lousy Cap Ayam Synthetic that are worst than good quality Mineral. So can I now say Mineral is better than Synthetic? Obviously "no" right?

which further proves my point, your examples have nothing to do with additives then. it is merely a case of engine/oil sump specifications, which leans towards OCI based on manufacturer's recommendations, not additives.

The "customer" Thundergod_CiD was referring to was probably me.

Yes, I read the user manual and yes, COE poured 15w-50 oil into my FLX SE because that is the only Petronas fully-syn EO they carry (Petronas Syntium 1000). I didn't know they used such high viscosity fully-syn oil on my car because I specifically asked for 10w-40 fully-syn, which they don't have.

By the time I realized it, it was too late.

Don't make stupid assumptions like "Many of those people know nothing and never read the car manual either". I sent my car to Proton COE because it is a Proton car running on Campro engine. Apparently they thought it was OK to pour 15w-50 EO into my engine, so should I trust you or should I trust Proton and their "Lotus engineers"?

this nearly happened to me, i went to two different sc before i finally found one who knew what they were talking about.
what i did, a few days before i planned to send my car for the first service, i went to the sc that i was planning to send it to and asked, what oil they have in stock and what not, just to do a bit of rec'ce ,
they told me, exoras, pour 10/40 , when i argued with them about the service book asking for 10/30 , they said the book is wrong, i told them thank you and good bye.  then i went to an authorized center, the one that usually does my dad's car, and the moment he saw my car, he said, oh this car cant use the normal engine oil, must use 10/30 , he didnt want to even pour 5/30 .
just because they are ,mechanics at proton service centers doesnt mean they are trained by the factory. the f***ers are half past six most of the time. hence i rather send the car to the authorized center where i can stand next to a mechanic and observe his work.

i would prefer not to send my car to a SC where i cant observe their work...

You guys are being too 'kiasu' already. Although originally your car might have come with 30 or 40 weight oil, it won't cause any damage if you use 50 weight oil. Those 50 weight oil do offer better protection as compared to 30 and 40 but at the expense of engine responsiveness & will consume slightly more fuel.

The manual say 10w-30 and above, IINM.

Retail price of Mobil1 15w50 Fully Syn at Esso/Mobil stations is RM216.

high performance like force induction can't use start with 0W oil.

this is also one of marketing strategy in malaysia, or else you can't make any business.
i also can say that our malaysian is not so interesting to get more knowledge about engine oil

new japan car also flat teppet. but there is some other additive to reduce the valvetrain wear. of course ZDDP for flat teppet is essential. but API is more on EU. not for asian. but it's well known globally.

mine still stick on SM. no SN for me.

A turbo car can definitely use a 0W based oil. I've been running my RB and 4B11T with them. They're fine.

As the journal bearings of turbochargers are very sensitive to higher viscosities using a 0W oil is actually better for them. Most turbo charged cars with smaller oil passages, oil squirters and oiling pins actually don't play nice with anything above a 40 weight.

Anyways in the challenging resource industry, we don't even use synthetic oils, we use ultra high performance synthetic fluoropolymer oils like Krytox,

http://www2.dupont.com/Lubricants/en_US/pr...ducts_Oils.html

Also we generally use Dupont elastomer seals like Viton or for harsher environments, Kalrez.