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 Turtles, Terrapins and Tortoises V5

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TScamillenoir
post Sep 2 2010, 10:27 PM

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QUOTE(BenSow @ Sep 2 2010, 09:42 PM)
why so hard to find other turtle one?? o.O u guys where u get ur boxies? i cant seem to find any other turtle except RES and mata mata...
*
dude... you are aware of INTESA, don't you?

the chelonian market had been deeply affected since.

most turtles are protected under INTESA (boxie included), most of us here had declared our turtles and applied for special permission during the grace period.
TScamillenoir
post Sep 2 2010, 10:46 PM

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QUOTE(BenSow @ Sep 2 2010, 10:29 PM)
waaa... is this same case as snakehead and big head pike in US?
*
nope, not really.

INTESA(International Trade in Endangered Species Act 2008) is made up to compliment Wildlife Act 1972 (and the soon to be Wildlife Act 2010). the reason is to curb illegal possession and trading of wildlife that are scheduled under CITES.

consequently, it hits on chelonian keepers real hard and sudden because chelonians were never protected under the 1972 law.

we had been discussing about the new law here in this very thread, but it seems that most people never read previous pages wink.gif


QUOTE(vivtch @ Sep 2 2010, 10:44 PM)
Hi, I have a question, would like to seek advice here.

I keep 2 RES, they are just 3.5” and 2.7”.  Always read that should provide a mininum L x W x D of water for them.  My concern is the depth of the water.  Is there a maximum depth I should beware of?

I plan for a new tank with 22” depth of water.  It may not be even enough when they grow to adult.  But for now, it is too deep for them?

Thank you.
*
they would survive quite fine if you asked me lol.

if you're concerned, the thing you can do is set the water depth to say like 10" for the moment and gradually increase the depth as they grow.

btw, how high is the tank?

This post has been edited by camillenoir: Sep 2 2010, 10:53 PM
TScamillenoir
post Sep 3 2010, 01:02 AM

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QUOTE(cooler8 @ Sep 3 2010, 12:31 AM)
Hi all,

I bought this pellet for my Russian Torts as an alternative feed besides the regular greens. Anyone had tried before. Heard from my buddy who's having ST that this pellet is meant for dry land torts. The shop that I bought from also recommend this for my Russian tort.. However, there is no english explanation on the container as it is a Japanese import product..Cheers
*
I assume that it is GEX? you might wanna ask about its shipment date because i don't think that they print expiry date on the casing. which shop do you get it from actually?


QUOTE
It is a 4' x 2.5' x 2'H tank. Intend to fill it up as high as possible to give them plenty of swimming area. I will have an over-the-tank basking area. The whole thing (tank & basking area) will have a mesh cover to avoid escaping and maybe predator (birds???).

I live in condominium, will place the tank at the balcony to have natural sunlight.

At the basking area, I will create a nesting area too (just in case they are females, not that I want to breed RES, just dont want them to have health problem later on). Read that should provide a soil depth of equivalent to their SCL, is that the minimum depth?

Does the whole arrangement/set-up sound ok?

Thank you.


setup sound quite nice, just make sure that the sunlight goes straight to the basking area, not through aquarium glass.

you can ditch the soil, just a dry basking area would be fine.

in case they are females, 4' tank would be too small for them (after many many years)


TScamillenoir
post Sep 3 2010, 01:23 AM

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contents of GEX

Crude Protein 19.0%
Crude Fat 3.0%
Crude Fiber 18.0%
Moisture (Max) 10.0%

i'd say too high protein and too low fiber for a true grassland tortoise diet.

TScamillenoir
post Sep 3 2010, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(vivtch @ Sep 3 2010, 06:56 AM)
The DIY basking area will have 3 sides of plastic panels to confine them in, one side open into the water, top will be mesh cover.  Sunlight shine in from the direction of the water side.

Since I live in condo and the balcony size is limited, that is the max size of tank I can fit in  sad.gif  Maybe I should start planning for a landed property with garden area where I can dig a pond  brows.gif

If I do away with the planned nesting area, what if they are females?  What should I do in future in case they are gravid?

I have also ordered Eheim 2217 canister filter. Will it be enough for the time being since they are still small (thus producing lesser waste comparing when they are bigger)? Or should I order another one straight away and have 2 filters running at the same time?

Is there any place in Melaka that has TTT for public visiting?  Something like zoo?  Not even sure whether zoos definitely have kept TTT since many years never go to zoos  blush.gif  Will be down to Melaka this weekend with my daughters for weekend trip.

Thank you.
*
it would take years before they'd be potentially gravid. by that time, the current tank would to too small for them. so putting soil now would only defeat the purpose and put extra cleaning burden for you (and your filtration system, as soil would gradually be moved into the water anyway.)

Eheim 2217 is recommended for tanks up to 600 liters. since your water volume would be less than 540 litres (minus the 2" space between actual water level and max. tank height) i'd say that 1 filter would be fine for years if the filter substrate is cleaned on a regular basis.

Melaka Zoo has a tortoise garden with several enclosure that house mostly local species and many RES. last time I checked there are Orlitia borneensis, Manouria emys emys, Cuora amboinensis and Hieremys annandalii. Just don't expect them to be labelled correctly (last time I checked they labelled H. annandalii as Cyclemys dentata) and the diet they gave the animals are not to be exemplified. (like feeding M. emys with a staple of ikan kembung doh.gif )

Butterfly Park has a 8ft(?) high aquarium that houses some local turtles. And hopefully the I. elongata they put in a well last time still survives. wink.gif

Anyway, most of the animal parks there are in the same vicinity (ayer keroh) so it won't be far to hop on from one place to another. Have a good time there smile.gif


TScamillenoir
post Sep 3 2010, 07:41 PM

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vivtch
yes.. ponds. ponds would be nice in the future smile.gif


CreepyCrawly

1. yes
2. no
3. no

as for the white spots, they'd become darker gradually as they age, not all at once. your turtle is relatively young by the way, quite apparent by the condition of suture lines on the plastron.

you might want to take some photos now for comparisons a couple of years later, just for record purposes. smile.gif
TScamillenoir
post Sep 5 2010, 10:31 PM

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QUOTE(NicoleACY @ Sep 5 2010, 10:22 PM)
Really?? I think I will suggest this to Dad! smile.gif

BTW, the lumps both of them have here is quite big, we didn't know that it's actually a disease that will affect the growth of their internal organs... I wonder if there's any way I can help them up? It worries me... And I don't think we've supplied them with enough amount of calcium...
*
it could affect mounting -> it would be harder for males to be in mating position since pyramiding on the female would hinder his climbs.

but heck, just hope for the best.
TScamillenoir
post Sep 5 2010, 11:34 PM

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the female looks fine for breeding smile.gif
TScamillenoir
post Sep 7 2010, 06:28 AM

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lemme help with the IDs for unlabelled animals

QUOTE(vivtch @ Sep 7 2010, 01:36 AM)
user posted image
*
albino Heosemys grandis. (Asian Giant Pond Turtle) these are niceeee....


Added on September 7, 2010, 6:29 am
QUOTE(vivtch @ Sep 7 2010, 02:33 AM)
user posted image
*
Callagur borneoensis (Painted Terrapin) and at the back there might be some Batagur baska


Added on September 7, 2010, 6:31 am
QUOTE(vivtch @ Sep 7 2010, 02:35 AM)
user posted image
*
Elseya dentata (Northern Australian Snapping Turtle)

QUOTE(vivtch @ Sep 7 2010, 02:35 AM)
user posted image
*
Carettochelys insculpta (Pig-nosed/Fly River Turtle)


Added on September 7, 2010, 6:37 am
QUOTE(vivtch @ Sep 7 2010, 02:33 AM)
user posted image
*
Orlitia borneensis (Bornean River Turtle/ Malayan Giant Turtle)


Added on September 7, 2010, 6:49 am
QUOTE(vivtch @ Sep 7 2010, 02:33 AM)
Many of these.  Just wondering are they overfed?
Although they would take some sort of omnivorous diet, Batagur baska and Callagur borneensis are mainly herbivorous while Orlitia borneensis is mainly carnivorous. I don't know if they are being overfed, but diet wise, I don't think it is ideal for them to be put together. (I believe that they (park staff) could not tell them apart, btw)

This post has been edited by camillenoir: Sep 7 2010, 06:58 AM
TScamillenoir
post Sep 9 2010, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(vivtch @ Sep 9 2010, 02:04 AM)
Just wanna ask whether ok to put those aquarium LED light in the turtle tank.

Not for the turts... it is for me as a viewer...think it looks nice if switch on at night.  Will it be dangerous to the turts?  Or will it (slightly light up) disturb their sleep (if they are sleeping) if I switch it on at night?
*
there are a couple of facts regarding RES sleeping habit that could be worth pondering upon:-

i) they do sleep while basking under the sun in broad daylight
ii) under normal circumstances, they often sleep underwater at night.

so could we conclude that they couldn't be bothered by lights? icon_idea.gif

anyway, dim lights wouldn't hurt since in the wild animals are exposed to moonlight at night.

there are also specialized infrared bulbs (not normal decorative red bulb) that supposedly would not interfere with the day/night cycle of reptiles since they supposedly could not see through the wavelengths of such lights. (the catch is, most of these infrareds bulbs are manufactured as heaters as well).



TScamillenoir
post Sep 13 2010, 01:43 AM

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QUOTE(gangc @ Sep 13 2010, 12:39 AM)
There's a problem with my friend tortoise (2 years old, not sure about the actual species, looks similar to Sucalta, but according to my friend, thats a local species) where when it move, it only use its front legs.

Had check on the back legs, it seems to be normal as i notice that its hind legs seems like can move freely when you lift it up, the shell seems to be normal as well (but the edge looks a bit sharp, not sure whether this was the root cause).

Do anyone of you encounter this before, any idea??
*
might I ask, what's the size of the enclosure?

i'm not jumping to conclusions as not all the facts are presented here (not even the species, though it should be a M. emys) but cases of locomotion using only front limbs usually occur when hatchling/juvenile tortoises are confined to small enclosures without much legspace.
TScamillenoir
post Sep 13 2010, 05:30 PM

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QUOTE(gangc @ Sep 13 2010, 02:11 PM)
Just check on the image of "Indotestudo elongata", that's the tortoise that i'm talking about, thanks for the id.

Sorry for not able to upload the pic, as i don't have any camera with me now, my phone cam's resolution is suck.


Added on September 13, 2010, 2:49 pmJust read an article about "Metabolic Bone Disease" as what suggested by Ryo.

Here's the summary >>

Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD): This is a condition that is the direct result of poor husbandry. It results from the effects of poor diet, poor or no uvb, lack of Vitamin D, and poor calcium to phosphorus ratio. Pyramiding is a form of MBD which research shows is the result of all of the above and lack of humidity and exercise. If the onset of MBD begins when a turtle is young, it will develop obvious deformities. Tortoises will show raised or stacked scutes on the carapace, overgrown, duck or parrot like beak and the nails will grow oddly curved out and upward. They will have splayed legs and have difficulty walking upright. Many are forced to drag their hind legs because of this difficulty.

Turtles often show early signs of MBD by their shells growing curved upward, some looking like a saddled shape. They will appear to be thickened. Box turtles will not have a working hinge, but rather have it frozen in place. Some will show signs of resorption where you will no longer see a tail because the body is trying to get the calcium from the bones. Often the turtle’s legs will be thin and deformed. As with tortoises the beak will also become duck or parrot shaped. Water turtles will usually show raised scutes, some actually also pyramiding as with tortoises. Their shells will also become serrated even if they are a species that normally has a rounded shell.

To avoid MBD it’s important to provide a nutritional diet with proper calcium and vitamin d, give proper uvb lighting (natural sun is best), plenty of exercise and humidity in the case of land turtles. Providing a cuttlebone in addition to good diet is a good way to let your turtle supplement itself with added calcium.

Source: http://turtlerescues.com/common_health_problems.htm

Those words highlighted in bold are the symptoms i found on my friend's tortoise.

*Sorry for posting the long article.
*
not ruling out bladder stone either. this one catches up much faster than mbd and can happen concurrently with the latter.

for the serration, it could be ruled out as it is normal for a 2+ years elongata (as well as older emys and impressa) to still have them.

and photos will help much. don't worry if the camera sucks, just some details will do.

This post has been edited by camillenoir: Sep 13 2010, 05:31 PM
TScamillenoir
post Sep 13 2010, 05:39 PM

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i) to treat fungus in its early stages.
ii) for seasoning in RES soup
TScamillenoir
post Sep 13 2010, 06:00 PM

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respiratory infection, yup. could happen to any turtles, but I found that Emydidae (new world turtles) are most prone to this.
TScamillenoir
post Sep 23 2010, 04:17 PM

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instead of spraying on greens, try it on bananas.

anyway, WC adult N. platynota are not the best captive turtles to start with wink.gif


TScamillenoir
post Sep 26 2010, 01:03 PM

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since it looks like your friend who had been keeping it for quite some time had no knowledge on the species and its diet, i guessed that he also has no knowledge abouts its legal status eh? wink.gif
TScamillenoir
post Sep 26 2010, 07:28 PM

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haven't you heard? perhilitan HQ got raided by MACC last tuesday, documents and laptops got hauled. most probably our application forms are also affected wink.gif
TScamillenoir
post Sep 28 2010, 07:40 PM

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no worries vivtch. RES do come in plenty of colors and patterns. not to mention all the morphs.

btw awhile ago the market had been flooded with yellow eared RES (no red pigments).
TScamillenoir
post Sep 29 2010, 07:52 AM

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owh, i don't believe that i can finitely distinguish between mineral deposit and shell fungus on res if you ask me doh.gif (maybe others can, not me)

anyway, this is (an alternative) method to find out if it is mineral deposit. try putting on some vinegar on one of the smaller scutes, leave it for a while and scrub it off with a toothbrush or something. repeat the process for a few times, let the scute dry and see if there is any difference. mineral deposits could potentially come off using this method. yeah, this is hard work but would save you the time and effort needed for other types of treatment, which could require weeks. plus, you would know that it is just mineral deposit and not fungus.

the other treatments are of course the normal betadine - ointment - dry docking method or the acriflavine (spelling?) method. medications for the former can be obtained from pharmacies while the latter could be obtained from aquariums/fish shop.


TScamillenoir
post Sep 30 2010, 07:25 AM

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QUOTE(yeezai @ Sep 28 2010, 01:07 PM)
dis will complicate things further...sigh...
well they issue permit for keepers aka pet lovers ? i dun see anything wrong wit dat...
*
with no one to validate the papers for the moment (misliah is out), we could've gone to hell and back and they'd still be no signs of anything.

and i'm wondering what would've happened to those special permission that she had signed earlier? still hold any value or would they be revoked? heheheeheehe.

QUOTE(Azazel @ Sep 27 2010, 09:35 AM)
What goes around comes around. Padan muka! Hahaha

Perhilitan: Kau dah terkencing ke belum? If not, please do so before the MACC officer throw you out the window. LOL!
*
she's still being paid full salary and pension... outta taxpayer's money. and farid's gonna takeover as deputy DG. yeehaaa

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