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 The suiting thread v2

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beau
post Aug 16 2010, 09:10 PM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 15 2010, 05:09 PM)
No single tailor here does anything that deserves the term impressive. The reason is that Malaysian suit customers are highly unsophisticated.

I picked apart a Taiwanese vintage bespoke blazer a few weeks back, and while fully canvassed, the shortcuts taken were awe-inducing. You'd think the Taiwanese would be more sophisticated suit wearers, they having the tradition and the weather for it, but the hymo used was stiff, there was no volume padding in the chest (so it looks flat in the chest, the way Koreans like theirs), and the darts in the canvas were awful machine zigzag stitches. The was no edge tape anywhere. No domette. The only handwork was the lapel pad stitching, done coarsely.

The fabric was a synthetic/wool mix, and the lining ... the worse shit in the universe. I soaked it in water and the dark purple lining started to bleed and the water turned red. Dark red. I initially thought it was due to blood stains.

Really great suits are only made in small pockets of the globe.
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It was the lack of integrity that bothered me in the case of the Malaysian Tailor. The fine sample in the window displayed probably lured potential customers in. He wasn't happy when I insisted on seeing the window display as the display sample seem to be much better than the other WIP ( work in progress ) in the shop.

In HST's case, they were sufficiently forthright to explain that they were not able to make the jacket to that specification but send it to Italy for canvassing & finishing.

I laugh everytime I hear some local tailor who lay claims to make for some famous personality in show business or politics. Why would I want to make a suit in a shop where some titled gentlemen with little taste uses your service. I would not be posting pictures of these individuals on "The Satorialist" anytime soon!!

Bespoke costs are not cheap in Japan, Korea or Taiwan. The Japanese I know seem to prefer the Row or Italy for their tailored efforts , not surprising, given the similar costs whereas the Koreans & Taiwanese tend to gravitate towards the US. The younger & more sophisticated set from these 3 nations are more inclined towards Italian these days.
beau
post Aug 17 2010, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(gshen @ Aug 17 2010, 11:30 AM)
This guy is calling your name:

user posted image

Seriously though, this Zegna stuff is fantastic. Pity they don't make it like that anymore. A fresco-esque weave in F.U. colors is a dream of mine.
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A bit garish for my taste. You have to be a Texan or Italian to carry this off but the Italian will probably give it more style!!


Added on August 17, 2010, 4:52 pm
QUOTE(gshen @ Aug 17 2010, 01:21 PM)
Lols, the cloth has just been spoken for anyway..

Needs a bit more work with another fitting, but almost there..

user posted image

I am ashamed to admit that I chickened out and skipped the fishtail back. Not man enough.. next project perhaps.
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It's a matter of individual taste but were you considering having a second button hole on the right lapel for symmetry & a more classical look?

This post has been edited by beau: Aug 17 2010, 04:52 PM
beau
post Aug 17 2010, 09:44 PM

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QUOTE(gshen @ Aug 17 2010, 05:12 PM)
beau - yup, I already asked for that to be added. I understand that is the Savile Row standard. There are also 2 hidden buttons the right side of the coat in the A&S fashion.

kotmj - thank you, Sir.
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Gshen,

I agree with Kotmj-Nice suit. The cut & drape looks similar to A & S . Would be interested in viewing the pictures of the finished product especially close up shots of the lapels, the cuff button holes etc to better assess the quality of the finish.

A real classic
beau
post Aug 18 2010, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(gshen @ Aug 18 2010, 12:12 AM)
Thank you. The similarity to A&S took me back and I will need some time to come to terms with that - I am NOT in the drape camp!

Most certainly. Pics will be posted when I get the final product.
I am not so convinced by the positioning of the bottom 2 buttons. Something tells me the original position (chalk marks?) were better.

My last 2 jackets were cut to fit my shoulder rather than padded, but I'm trying something new this time. Will see how different it feels.

The softness is nice eh? Same thing i thought to myself when i put on a jacket made by Peter Lee. It was made for someone else, but somehow fits me fairly well. I am so enamored by the softness that for my next project i'm purchasing my own canvas from RJW to be used.
High gorge is right, but one has to be careful to cross the line. Sciamat crosses the line with the details that make an Eyetalian suit, for example.
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A & is the least structured & has the softest feel in the Row . Contrast that with Dege & Skinner or Gieves which has very structured jackets ( due in part to their military heritage )A & S tends to be more padded as compared to the Italians but paddings tend to be much softer as compared to Gieves & Dege.

I hope you opted for a clean back instead of the "gatherings" at the part where the sleeve connects to the jacket body. The gathering seems to be a feature that A & S incorporates in order to provide greater comfort & arm mobility. I personally do not like it for aesthetic reasons.

Having said that, A & S is one of the few tailors that match patterns on all their suit jackets ( even on the jettings )

Speaking of soft tailoring , I came across a very soft fully canvassed jacket made by one Sze Sze Tailor in Singapore. The owner of the jacket claims that the tailor makes for TCS/Mediacorp celebs.

Any thoughts on this tailor would be appreciated


Added on August 18, 2010, 10:57 am
QUOTE(bloke1 @ Aug 18 2010, 10:15 AM)
Softer and narrower.

That's minimal padding?
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Agreed-

1. Narrower shoulders
2. more suppressed waist
3. Lower button stance



This post has been edited by beau: Aug 18 2010, 10:57 AM
beau
post Aug 18 2010, 11:03 AM

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QUOTE(gshen @ Aug 18 2010, 11:00 AM)
I'm OK with the softness, but not with the drape associated with A&S' style.

I have seen Graham Browne's interpretation of 'soft' & that is no where near what I am getting..

You can be the judge of that:

user posted image

If you pop by to Singapore, I will show you in person what my jacket looks and feels like. You might be surprised at the softness!

I have no idea about Sze Sze, but I think I recall an article about them saying that their suits start at S$300. I find it hard dealing with tailors that work with polyester fabrics.
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Ditto
beau
post Aug 18 2010, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 18 2010, 11:43 AM)
I got so excited last night I couldn't sleep. So I just woke up. At 11:30 a.m. Taking a half-day leave.

I am actually very happy with the drape at the back of the armscye. Notice that there is more drape at the right side than left. The left is how it should be, and I do not find that sort of drape offensive. The right side, as previously mentioned, will be recut. The upper sleeves have no drape, which explains their sculptural cleanness. All of it has been packed into the back of armscye. It makes for a jacket which allows for exceptional arm mobility, even with a thick sweater underneath. John Hitchcock wants the effect, but implements it differently, with the drape going to the upper sleeves, which makes things ugly.

The shoulder pads are pre-made ones and are thick (but soft). I think I will get him to make thinner pads.

My instructions were to extend the shoulders 1/4" each side. I think I am right in my suspicion that extended shoulders ONLY WORK if the shoulder seam droops somewhat.

As to the lapel belly: I admire it on gshen's jacket, but there is a school of thought that says there should be no perceptible belly (cf. Whife). I have till Saturday to decide if I want a belly or not.
[attachmentid=1732900][attachmentid=1732901]
'("The finished edge will be almost straight.")

I will call him to have it shortened at the front. 1/2".

My jacket will not be like gshen's because mine needs to fit over a sweater and still be comfortable to wear.

Yesterday's fitting session took 1.25 hours and was very intense. I was drained at the end. Indeed, there are more variables in a DB.
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How much time was spent negotiating with AL to get your way ( & entertaining the pair of galley slaves )?

The engineering in a DB is more complicated to get right as compared to a SB
beau
post Aug 21 2010, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 21 2010, 12:30 AM)
Look at this DB. No lapel belly. Very high gorge. Minimal waist suppression. (Significant shoulder drop.)

user posted image

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I personally don't like the look but it could be done in this case to conceal the wearer's portly fiqure.
beau
post Aug 21 2010, 03:09 PM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 21 2010, 12:50 PM)
user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

1. Quarter inch more waisting each side
2. Sleeves to be rotated backwards
2. Shoulder slope correction on right side
3. 1/2" less back balance on navy trousers, 3/4" shorter
4. 3/4" shorter flannel trousers


Added on August 21, 2010, 1:43 pmDo I still look like a navy-coloured refrigerator?
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1. Jacket -Better-more shape needed especially at the waist
2. Trousers-No fish tail?
beau
post Aug 22 2010, 12:47 AM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 21 2010, 12:50 PM)
user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

user posted image

1. Quarter inch more waisting each side
2. Sleeves to be rotated backwards
2. Shoulder slope correction on right side
3. 1/2" less back balance on navy trousers, 3/4" shorter
4. 3/4" shorter flannel trousers


Added on August 21, 2010, 1:43 pmDo I still look like a navy-coloured refrigerator?
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Saw the jacket on a tailoring dummy at ALT today.

The jacket & fabric looks better in person . The pictures don't do it justice.

The shoulder paddings are wonderfully soft & represents a real departure from ALT's house style.

The female galley slave remarked that it was on the insistence of the customer. AL was beaming proudly on the softness of the jacket which is a marked difference from his previous criticisms of the soft unstructured fully canvassed jackets.


Added on August 22, 2010, 12:49 am
QUOTE(gshen @ Aug 21 2010, 07:03 PM)
IMO, if you add a bit to the coat length, you will have a bit more room to lower the button stance and expose more shirt. Also, the gorge should be folded in 1/2" when they actually make it.. so it might not actually be as high as it seems now. I forgot that, sorry.

Might be the pics, but the coat's back balance looks long? A side view pic would have shown this more clearly..

The shoulders look better now. TBH I can't tell if you've got them narrowed, though it looks like it. Otherwise, either my eyes suck or the outdoor pics are much more flattering.
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Gshen,

The shoulders are very lightly padded & look wonderful on the tailoring dummy when I saw it this afternoon

This post has been edited by beau: Aug 22 2010, 12:49 AM
beau
post Aug 22 2010, 08:06 AM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 22 2010, 01:01 AM)
Gshen, what do you mean by the gorge being folded in half when being made up? I have difficulty imagining what it means.

Yeah, the shoulders were taken in a tad. There was unanimous consensus both here and on SF that the shoulders were overextended.

I'm thinking of adding 0.25" to the front length of the coat and moving all six buttons down 0.5".


Added on August 22, 2010, 1:04 am
I only ever go to ALT on not-to-be disclosed hours nowadays. Saturday afternoon is like a Lowyat forum meet over there, all these young people wanting suits. Phew.
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I know-There was a Mat Salleh there trying on his suit which appeared in my opinion short in the Thom Browne manner & wanting to order several suits at a go.No wonder AL was beaming from ear to ear.

All this means is higher prices & longer waiting time for the regulars ( unless he increases his intake of Galley slaves !!)



beau
post Aug 23 2010, 09:33 PM

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QUOTE(bloke1 @ Aug 23 2010, 07:03 PM)
So I went to the haberdasher for some Star buckles. Unfortunately they do not have any of that left. The old lady threw me a plastic packet full of buckles. The quality was terrible. They were rusty, dented and some are even distorted. I painstakingly picked out three that were still in decent condition from the packet. 80cents each.

There is also a packet of D-ring buckles which caught my attention. I realized they can be used as side buckles too. It works similar to a D-ring belt. The old lady told me people bought them to be used in bags. I wanted to buy two pairs of them, one for each side, but I chickened out. What do you think?
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Are these buckles in Brass finish by chance? It depends how the buckles are designed
beau
post Aug 23 2010, 09:35 PM

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QUOTE(bloke1 @ Aug 23 2010, 09:31 PM)
They're just normal D-rings.
user posted image

The shape suits chinos better imo. The curved side will cause bunching to the straps. Not a good idea.
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Agreed.
beau
post Aug 24 2010, 01:48 AM

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QUOTE(bloke1 @ Aug 23 2010, 09:36 PM)
Stainless steel I suppose. But there are many colors available! I almost fell for it.


Added on August 23, 2010, 9:43 pmWhich kind of buckles do you all prefer? I never liked those used in women's clothing. They're so hard to adjust when worn.

Comparison with Star. doh.gif Star's quality is sound 
[attachmentid=1743479]
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Let me know if you come across matt brass versions. I've seen some on Italian trousers but have not found the source of the item in question.
beau
post Aug 24 2010, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(gshen @ Aug 24 2010, 01:10 PM)
I actually bought 2 dozen gunmetal hook/eyes for my tailor. She specifically told me to get them in HK's shamshuipo market as they are much, much harder and more durable than the ones available locally ('Tailor' brand).

Will post pics once I get my trousers.
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Any particular store there?

BTW how does one order from RJW?

The way we go about things the tailors should reduce their prices & charge minimally for labor.
beau
post Aug 24 2010, 08:30 PM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 24 2010, 02:23 PM)
These are the modern-day Deponirts, a far cry from vintage ones...

user posted image
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Probably made in China these days
beau
post Aug 24 2010, 11:07 PM

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QUOTE(kotmj @ Aug 24 2010, 10:13 PM)
hey beau, what were you doing at alt on saturday anyway?
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Collecting my shirt. Got the fit & design just right on the second attempt. Will launder a few times to see how it stands up to abuse before passing AL the good material to work on.
beau
post Aug 25 2010, 07:39 AM

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QUOTE(bloke1 @ Aug 24 2010, 11:49 PM)
Can the gorge height be adjusted during fitting?
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Probably at the basting stage within certain acceptable tolerances . The cutters don't like . My Mat Salleh friend vastly increase his knowledge of Cantonese obscenities when he made a similar request to his HK tailor.
beau
post Aug 25 2010, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(bloke1 @ Aug 25 2010, 10:32 AM)
Aiyo! Sei lak like that.
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One possible outcome could be AL saying something like this: " Chee Sin , moi tung leh zhou , ley man Bespoked tai tim yong " & this is the polite version.
beau
post Aug 26 2010, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(thatsound @ Aug 25 2010, 10:28 PM)
I'm a total noob when it comes to suits.

But any recommendations for me on a tight budget of probably less than Rm500?

I'm leaning more towards tailor made suits. So any suggestions on which tailors I can consider?
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Are you referring to labor charges or does the RM500 includes cloth ( some low grade polyester in this case )


Added on August 26, 2010, 10:01 am
QUOTE(thatsound @ Aug 25 2010, 10:52 PM)
hmmm so what's the normal price range?
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Buy second hand & have the suit altered

This post has been edited by beau: Aug 26 2010, 10:01 AM
beau
post Aug 27 2010, 11:31 PM

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QUOTE(FusioneX @ Aug 27 2010, 11:55 AM)
You know there is something wrong with you when you bring up a Hollywood / red carpet picture and inquire about its sartorial appropriateness.
No, the bottom button was never meant to be done up and you need to lurk harder in SF.
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I think the blonde should button down more & the guy button up all the way to his neck. Who knows he may even have one woman on each arm , despite the sartorial faux pas


Added on August 27, 2010, 11:33 pm
QUOTE(LiLFreaK @ Aug 27 2010, 11:17 AM)
user posted image

just curious

shouldt 2 button jacket only button the top button?

or is it that suit is made to button both buttons
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Perhaps he's button up both buttons in order to hide the hard on he is getting from standing close to the blonde!!

This post has been edited by beau: Aug 27 2010, 11:33 PM

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