Technically, why does a good earth need to be in-place in order for nuisance trips not to take place ?

Installing a better elcb/rccb which can eliminate more nuisance tripping should help. Theres brands like Maxguard which have higher sensitivity (vs normal elcb) but better protection against nuisance tripping during lightning storms. I've got one but never got around to installing it yet.

ELCBs or as I know them, measure voltage referenced to ground. A bad ground raises what we call the "touch potential". These types of devices don't do well during lightning storms.

The easiest way to take away nuisance trips is to upgrade to an RCBO/RCD, which uses differential current sensing. For normal consumer goods 30mA trip current is fine (because any more than that and it can introduce fibrillation in the human body), for "leaky" devices like ovens and fridges a simple MCCB is fine.

My recommendations are the Siemens 5SU1 and the 5SY series for most uses. They're pricey but work very well. If you need a surge protector Weidmuller's DIN mounted VPU series are a good bet.

Hey, thanks for this info, I'm having the exact problem as OP and looking for a solution.

Based on what I see from my ELCB, it's a Hager CF463B, which should be this http://www.kvc.com.my/Store/ProductView?pr...goryId=0&page=1 4P 63A 300mA LOW SENSITIVITY ELCB. I'm assuming the trip current for mine is 300mA.

I found the Siemens 5SU1 you recommended, here if anyone is interested http://my.rs-online.com/web/p/rcbos/7721199/ . though I don't think there's enough room to mount a surge protector in my power box.

Hager CF463B rated current is 63A
Siemens 5SU1 rated current is 32A

Will this be a problem?

Any experts here can advise .
This is in relation to RCCB tripping when there is lightning far away .


how do you measure the leakage current in your house . ( on a normal sunny day .

And
what is the best way to protect your pc and unifi equipment from lightning surge or strikes .

This post has been edited by tien171: Oct 12 2019, 06:10 PM

youtube have your answer. house earthing problem.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer...trip+bila+kilat

thanks ...
did some research online .
there are a few probable causes .

1. earth grounding resistance should be 10 ohms and below , as in above video.
2. some where in the house be it the wiring internal and external , plugs , electric appliance is leaking current to ground. if it exceed the rccb rated limit it trips.
lightning cause a surge on the supply and the leakage also increase .

for point 2 . if you tryin to isolate this issue , just before a storm , unplug all plug points to see if any cause the trip.

the next trouble process is to check which internal wire loop cause the trip

when you see lightning and rain coming
1. if you have 16 MCB on your DPoint, Turn of ALL manually . Observe a few rounds.

if still have issues come back here for advise .
we try to do the simple easy task first to identify where the problem is .




This post has been edited by tien171: Oct 20 2019, 02:32 PM

Change the MCB, use Hager as example.

To add on this, you can add on an extra measure by installing a surge protection device (SPD) on your circuit breaker. Have to replace the SPD every few years.

MY house has many external points in the garden, backyard, rooftop garden, etc,... which are exposed to the weather. I have isolated all these points first right when I hear distant thunder. The self-tripping has been reduced since.

Then I need to isolate which loop the culprit is and work on that loop.

Start by working on your external points/loops first.

right ! if you get a direct hit on your roof . but

Lightning can get in your house via many ways

power gate
garden lights
Astro dish
TV antenna on roof
telecom fix line phone , streamyx line
Mains power line .

So you need install some form of protection for your Devices . those expensive ones.

1. an easy NO cost way is to UNplug the devices from the mains .



This post has been edited by tien171: Oct 20 2019, 02:42 PM

Unfortunately too much speculation has created conclusions. Some misinformation noted and corrected.

One, earth ground has no relationship to how an ELCD, RDC works. That is completely about what safety ground does. Unfortunately some mistakenly call that earth ground. Safety ground means a fault to any equipment results in a tripped circuit breaker. So that humans are protected from shocks. That receptacle's safety ground cannot connect to earth ground. It must connect to a bus bar in the main breaker box. Otherwise it may not provide sufficient human protection. And so the two ground (even if interconnected elsewhere) are completely different - have different purposes.

Second, ELCD, etc detect when an incoming current is different from an outgoing current. That means some current must be going elsewhere; maybe harmfully through a human. So the ELCD/RCD cuts off electricity. It does not need any safety ground or earth ground to function / protect / be effective.

Third, ELCD/RCD is not tripped by a microseconds current from something like lightning. A fault current takes milliseconds. But that much longer current can be created by a 'follow-through' current. This is AC current s flowing because a microsecond transient has made other and temporary connections (ie plasma or arcs).

Tripping is not created by lightning. But what lightning created and must never create causes an ELCD/RCD to trip. Solution was always this simple. Do not give a lightning current any reason to be inside. Otherwise all appliances are at risk.

That current is inside because it found better paths to earth (sometimes destructively) via appliances. If that current connects to earth BEFORE entering, then nothing inside is conducting that microsecond current. No microsecond current creating a milliseconds follow-through current means no nuisance tripping.

Nuisance tripping is a misnomer. Since the problem is really crated by intentionally not earthing transients to earth ground (not safety ground) and BEFORE it can enter.

Four, an effective solution means every incoming wire must connect low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth at the service entrance. TV cable and satellite dish would make that connection only with a hardwire. AC electric and phone wires must make that low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection via a 'whole house' protector.

If that current is not connected low impedance (ie hardwire has no sharp bends) to upgraded earth ground electrodes, then that current will be inside hunting for earth ground via interior appliances and wires. That can even cause nuisance tripping. Because a current that should not be inside is inside.

That one human mistake that creates nuisance tripping. Another can be electronics that are missing required line filters. Resulting high frequency noise can cause some ELCD/RCD circuits to become confused and to intermittently trip.

Do not cure symptoms. Sensitivity is not the problem. Currents that should not be anywhere inside are the problem and what must be addressed. Those currents must connect low impedance (ie hardwire has no splices) to earth ground electrodes BEFORE entering.

It only pick the best route to go. Lightning rod and the cable and etc parts provide the least resistance compare to others. Also, its position is nearer to the sky and it direct goes to the ground. Common sense.

I just changed the ELCB to a much more expensive Made-in-Germany one(= RM200) and the "lightning always tripping ELCB problem" of many years finally got solved since about 10 years ago. A hardware shopkeeper told me about the solution.
....... Seems, the problem was caused by cheapo housing developers installing low-quality RM50 Made-in-Malaysia ELCBs.

Note that accidentally shorting the live, neutral and earth wires will also trip the ELCB, eg when I DIY change or add a 3-pin electrical wall socket. Also if water has entered into the 3-pin plug/socket or electrical appliance while it is active.

Heard of a con-man electrician changing the whole electrical wiring of the house(= costs RM3k) and still could not solve this problem.

yes cheapo elcb maybe a cause of trips

yes really dont need to change whole wiring.
need to troubleshoot what and where is the cause. maybe 1 or 2 wire loops higher leakage so dont need to change whole house unless wiring are like 20 years old.

this is the reason we have this topic to learn and k experiences in fixing the problem,

i notice in another forum some people change their elcb/rccb to 300mA rating.
this method to fix is highly dangerous . 300mA can kill you .
the recommended is 100mA.



This post has been edited by tien171: Oct 21 2019, 04:57 PM

The root cause of this problem is the pro-business government allowing housing developers to sell-then-build houses to their advantage, instead of the normal build-then-sell houses, ... or airplanes, ships, luxury cars(or Ferraris and Porshes), 30-carat diamond rings, etc.

MCA's Lee San Choon = Plotek.! Plotek.!

No one will buy a build-then-sell house if they know the ELCB always trip when lightning happens far away = only good-quality ELCB would have been installed during the building process of such new houses. .

Even 1 ma can kill. Some nations require ELCB to be 5 milliamps. Even 100 milliamps is dangerous. Why then would anyone use a 300 ma ELCB (or why is it even available)?

This post has been edited by westom: Oct 22 2019, 05:24 AM

developers/ house builders want save cost .
they will install cheaper ones
cost difference can be about 50 rm on the elcb.

This post has been edited by tien171: Oct 22 2019, 11:25 AM

That right .
i guess it all comes to COST .

to build a house with 5 mA you need quality wire s, MCB ,RCCB , plugs and D box
i guess it will cost 3 X more .