Hi guys,

I'm new here & require opinions or suggestions on enchancing my car performance.
Now I'm using the stock A18A 1.8L 12-valve twin carburetor engine with 4-speed automatic transmission (110HP). This engine to me, are very old, felt very under power, have slow acc, & worst of all, can go top speed of 150km/h only! .
Because of that, i hope i can get some advices from all the sifu's here on how to upgrade my car around 200+HP in most efficient money spending & time consuming way. (if can, fuel efficient also)

So which 1 is the best solution?

1) B16A swap + Basic intake and exhaust modification = 160+HP ( below target, but cheap?)
2) B18C swap + Basic intake and exhaust modification = 170+HP (near target, reasonable price i guess?)
3) B16B swap + Basic intake and exhaust modification = 185+HP (slightly below target, but expensive)
4) B18CR swap + Basic intake and exhaust modification = 200+HP (on target, damn expensive)
5) K20A swap + Basic intake and exhaust modification = 200++HP (slightly above target, expensive?)
6) Others?

FYI, I dont mind spending a lot, as long as it is well spend. (eg. for me, spend RM10000 to add 100HP is well spend, while RM500 for 1HP is not) Btw, I have minimal/basic knowledge only on engines & swaps. So, pardon my noobyness pls & thx in advance

what i wanna say... spend according to ur budget... alwiz dont spend max out on engine and alone and blow out ur whole budget... alwiz leave a few Ks for service parts etc...

u'll never know u might need to overhaul the engine again...

Hmm.. if i hav a budget around 15k, what can i do then? How much is the average cost for eng swaps, eng intake & exaust modifications? Is installing turbo to my current engine an option?

again, pardon my noobyfull questions, & thx in advance

installing turbo requires ur current engine to be fuel injected... too much work and hassle... since better options are out there, why not go for it... further more u got around 15k in hand... haha...

b18c should be great... higher displacement compare to b16a... better torque for city drive..

agree with B18C...B16A VTECs are known to have a serious lacking in torque....so a higher displacement VTEC would be better.

get a B18C GSR....then the balance of ur money use for tarboh

possible to get 200hp on engine...(all the figures u quoted would be on engine figures)

but on wheel will more than likely be 180-190hp.

also id recommend sticking to the stock 4.4FD gearbox. switching to a 4.7 on a 1.8 makes the gears too close for my liking. at most, a good clucth and LSD is what id do to a gearbox mated with a 1.8



as for the "RM500 for 1hp" thingy.... thats more than likely gonna be the case....gaining HPs on N/A engines aint easy and aint cheap....gaining HP on VTEC N/A engines is slightly easier but even more expensive.

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Added on January 23, 2010, 3:50 amoh...something else just came to mind....

Small V B16A + B20B Block + Bolt On Turbo...even more torque and more HP

might be possible to get within 15k budget.

only downside is the 4.2FD gearbox....unless of course u can get Big V B16A within ur budget...

This post has been edited by mADmAN: Jan 23 2010, 03:51 AM

budget around 15k u want to do so many things? for honda swaps 15k is considered minimum budget only, that means buying the half cut, swapping in, doing basic maintenance and jpj approval, that's it

and dont even dream of the k20a swap because the engine alone already exceeded your budget

there's one more engine u haven't consider yet, it's the F20B, it's cheap, it's got the power u want and the dashboard looks great

This post has been edited by stormlcc: Jan 24 2010, 01:56 PM

Forget B16A ....get a 13B your car sure will fly like 747

This post has been edited by Pajero 4D56: Jan 25 2010, 12:25 AM

u think too much liao

Invention come from Imagination ma

Thx for the insight guys..
But along with that, there r some questions:

1) How much do b18c gsr halfcut cost?
2) madman: wat do meant by small v b16a & big v b16a? izzit SOHC & DOHC?
3) stormlcc: u mentioned on f20b, is it the bluetop ver found in accord SiR-T? whats the average price 4 it?
4) Pajero 4D56: 13B-DEI or 13B-REW? & is it even possible to install them inside my hood..?

and again, i apologise if my question sound very nooby-like.. & thx in advance!

1)b18c expect > 9k for manual
2)small v and big v as in the valve size..
3)yes, it is the bluetop with 210bhp.. 2L with good enough torque + vtec
4)everything is posibble with money.. but whether u can pass jpj/puspakom or not is another thing

f20b sounds nice to me now How much does it cost?
i've tried search'n through the net & found it around $700. If converted to RM... around 3k?

1) RED top more than 12k, BLACK top around 10k, the price already gone sky high nowadays
2) small v is 160hp 1st gen, big v is 170hp 2nd gen
3) YES, and make sure u get the S-tronic gearbox, which looks super cool with + - gear in an old car such as yours, it used to sell RM4500 few years back, if my estimation is correct, it'll now sell around RM5-6k, which is still a bargain comparing to the overpriced B series
4) almost anything can be plugged in, however why should u, when there r so many good choices around

storm already mentioned the diff between big n small V....its just a term used to differentiate the 1st and 2nd gen of B16As....

and of course...theyre both DOHC



oh...n if the F20B is priced like wat storm mentioned, go for it

F20B got tiptronic version..

thanks guys for the positive responds.. I really appreciated it..

as far as the discussion goes, i think i'll go for the f20b.. the task now is where to find 1..
but I still have 1 question though,

stormlcc: i've search around the net & could'nt find the s-tronic gearbox u mentioned.. correct me if i'm wrong, but i've only found out there is a S-Matic automatic transmission, & it comes with Accord SiR only.. plus, the engine was rated 180hp not 200hp.. the ones rated 200hp was inside Accord SiR-T (manual transmission). I've found this inside wiki though..

If this is true, which 1 should i choose? manual with 200hp, or 180hp with s-matic?

oh sorry, i wrote the wrong name, yes it's S-matic, not S-tronic. choosing which one depends on yourself, but i would choose the 180hp S-matic version anyday just because of the cool factor (the +- gear is just way too cool to ignore ), and it's an auto gearbox for city driving. If u fancy a manual just go ahead, but the price might be a bit more expensive than the auto.

if the price in KL is too expensive, try other places like klang or bentong (pahang), the prices in these 2 places is much more affordable (in some shops at least)

This post has been edited by stormlcc: Jan 26 2010, 10:22 AM

haha.. prior to open this thread, a mechanic from a shop juz behind my hse called me & told me he found a f20b from half-cut shop at puchong area.. lolz... half-cut price told by stormlcc was spot on, around 5k+.. plus he said can choose either wan MT or AT same price.. overall cost around RM8k++... should i go for it?

wow, 5k+ is a pretty good price, 8k+ is ok if it includes new timing belt and dashboard transplant, go for it and make sure u post some photos of your car after the transplant

not just after the transplant....

step by step pix man... before during and after hehehehhe

go for it....thats a good price for a 2.0 VTEC transplant...if B series can prolly get B16A only...

id probably get the MT if i were u...more syiok


oh n dont forget to upgrade yer brakes and suspension too...

last time i tested this accord euro SiR with f20b bluetop.. overall performance ok la but still feel the torque tak cukup.. maybe the gearbox ageing edi lolz

that's because the car is so heavy, if that engine is in an old car, u'll be always smiling everytime u step on the pedal

Hi guys, i think i juz roasted my eng.. cmin back from subang, suddenly car shutdown.. stopped & smoke cmin out from the eng bay
I guess the car is yearning for a new eng then

I met the mechanic b4 to confirm the pricing & ask him the details on the halfcut. He told me RM5700 for small v f20b NO VTEC.. if wan big v f20b w/ VTEC, hav to add 1k

So, after bargaining with him;
big v F20B VTEC halfcut + wiring + dashboard + new exhaust system (extractor+2"piping+bullet silencer+muffler) + workmanship = RM9k++...
a good bargain or a rippoff?

ok ah, not bad.. my wira transplant mivec took more than 10k to completely finish it.. anyway, im not keen on changing super duper engine on old cars anymore
later u will keep pump up money to make the car more enjoyable eg: ICE as well as making the car look presentable.. then every small problem u also wan rectify and in the end, like me already spend more than 20k on my old junk

agree.....

u should see that engine in a lighter car...

HCOC last time had a CRX with F20B in it... dood spent 12k on halfcut alone... but that was like 7-8 years ago....man that car flew...during drags, it was fighting with other EG and EK B20B monsters and giving them a run for their money.



@wuzz_ere
in the words of nike......just do it.

but any engine will perform better in lighter body wut..
like the R20A in latest accord is said to lose to civic K20Z..
if the R20A is installed on a civic probably the civic gona lose also ma XD
and ironically all big sedan are heavy so 2L might not enough, maybe thats y i felt torqueless when driving that accord euro

i didn't know there's a f20b blue top without vtec, those without vtec ones doesn't have blue covers and is SOHC.......anyone can clarify this? about the new exhaust system, what does it include, i mean, there r so many kinds of extractors and mufflers out there (stainless steel or just steel) with lots of different brands, how much does your mechanic charge for the exhaust system alone?

and with this engine, 2.5" is the best for it, 2" is just too small, my 1.6 20valve blacktop also using 2" piping and it's restricting the air-flow a bit (even without bullet), i'm sure in a f20b it'll limit the response a lot, plus if using bullet / silencer it'll restrict much more.

u can do the exhaust system in another shop that specializes in it, that will probably set u back around 2k for the entire stainless steel + branded s-flow muffler, or 1.2k for white steel (which will rust after a couple of years) + branded muffler. If u don't want the exhaust to be too noisy, a good s-flow muffler will probably do the job, no need center bullet, it's such a waste of good power and response. but make sure u do the jpj approval for the engine first before u go do your exhaust. U can use back your original prelude exhaust for the jpj inspection, after approved, then only change it.

that's why this is the best engine option in an old prelude with the best value vs performance comparison. the prelude is using a 1.8 engine, therefore if change to b16a, it's a downgrade and the price for the conversion is around RM10k for everything, it's not worth the price and the power isn't as good as the f20b. if change to b18c blacktop the price is around 12k for everything, although the power is almost the same as the f20b, the price is too much.

This post has been edited by stormlcc: Jan 28 2010, 12:11 AM

Found both f20b DOHC VTEC MT & AT w/ S-matic halfcut today by frens.. MT cost RM4500 while AT was RM4000..

Decided to go for MT bcoz of the extra 20HP but the problem now is to choose the right workshop to do the swap.. Got several interesting offers from the local & fren recomended workshops;

1) new, small workshop located behind my hse - can kawtim within 10-14 days (worst come to worse b4 cny) - Initially, overall price around RM3000. Later, after said wan to do sumwhere else, lower price to RM1800 (w/out eng service, no new timing belt, etc.)
2) fren recommended workshop @ kg subang - said by my fren can kawtim in 3 days (worst, a week) - Price, initially 2K.. told him too expensive.. later call me back & said RM1300 (told me for the sake of frendship)
3) father's fren workshop @ klang - said takes time but worst will be 1 month. Oso said they have done the same eng swap for the same car several years ago. Plus, the car is at his workshop for some time now bcoz owner not usin it. Give him RM1800 can kawtim d.

So which 1 is the better choice?

Anyone can give me any examples of good branded 4-2-1 extractor for f20b, where to find and the price fot it?
Modify exhaust cannot pass jpj? but my current exhaust system already rusty & broken d.. wat to do?

modded exhaust will usually be loud...hence the JPJ issue... just use the stock exhaust for the silence and once pass...straight bring to exhaust shop for new exhaust system....

workshop....kg subang one....cheap IF they include everything like service and timing belts, JPJ etc..actually 2k oso i think it aint that bad la.....else...i would source for more workshops....especially those with more good reputation...may be expensive...but at least they have a good rep for engine swaps.

the one behind ur house has the advantage of being close by so easier for u to monitor progress...but engine swaps WITHOUT new timing belt and service etc is never a good idea.....

extractors, TODA but seriously...jusst use the stock extractor...VTEC extractors are actually very efficient as it is. of course upgrading to good ones will probably yield better results. but theyre also expensive.....and F20B performance parts are a lil tough to find here...mostly B or K series.

This post has been edited by mADmAN: Jan 28 2010, 04:15 AM

choosing workshop depend on whether you trust the shop or not

1) not honest, the boss should give u the exact price of the transplant, not change it when hear u going somewhere else every time.
2) not honest also, how can the price be so big a difference, but RM1300 is just so attractive, if the shop is very experienced in engine swapping then go ahead, if not, better find another honest and reliable shop
3) if it's your father's friend's shop and if it's a trusted mechanic, this is the best option, although a bit more expensive (RM1800 is considered normal price for engine and dashboard transplant) but u won't have headaches after the transplant

use back the original extractor, Honda knows what their doing, so don't bother to get other custom made extractors which will have a high chance of ruining your air flow.  If want to change, must change branded ones, but they r quite expensive.  If u want to change the exhaust system then only go inspection, install a bullet to make sure it stays 100% silent and an S-flow muffler, preferably from mugen, although it'll be a bit expensive but it's silent and efficient, after approval then get the bullet out.


This post has been edited by stormlcc: Jan 28 2010, 03:17 PM

Thx guys, all of ur responses help me o lot..

Bought the halfcut today, got minor prob with it (Vtec didn't open at high rpm when we check) . But got warranty d by them. They say if no open after swap, they will open it thierself. Then went to my father's fren workshop at klang. Saw the car they said b4, a 3rd gen prelude 4WS w/ f20b swap . It was done 10 years ago, w/ f20b AT modified to MT, and that car was built for track purposes (juz the way i liked). Sadly that car was abbandoned & looks in a bad condition . So decided to do the swap by them since my father trust them & seems like they're very experieced with swaps (especially honda's).

Overall Cost (now) = RM4500(halfcut) + RM1800(everyting till the car is roadworthty) + RM200 (tow to klang ) = RM6500

Later I'll try posting some pics on the swap process..

Regarding the exhaust system, I guess I'll hold on to the stock extractor (as adviced by majority of u), but current piping & muffler certainly must change coz current 1 r rusty & got holes all around the place. So, can anyone give me the pricing for several good quality mufflers pls

*Vtech -> Vtec corrected*

This post has been edited by wuzz_ere: Jan 31 2010, 03:36 PM

VTEC didnt open? and its VTEC...not VTECH...not V-TECH. theres no "-" and no "H" in VTEC...as a soon to be owner u should get it right...

theres 2 possible causes which are pretty common...

1/ engine too cold...easily resolved by letting the engine warm up nicely...

2/ speed sensor gone...either replace speed sensor...or get a speedmeter like RSM or Pivot speed meter....if this is the case, id recommend getting a speedmeter...fixes the problem and also gets rid of the speed cut


i guess when u revved the engine was in neutral and u just floored it right?

well..i had a friend, and my friend's car, which had a B16A in it with stock ECU (hes the only VTEC guy i know with stock ECU)...also similar...when car is in neutral and just rev up pass the VTEC point (be it engine hot or cold) the VTEC WONT engage....but when driving....the VTEC works perfectly.

so do the transplant, drive around abit and see how it goes as its possible that it might be the characteristic of a stock VTEC ECU (not too sure about this, as i dont come across stock ECU's very often)

the vtec wont open la during idle even if u rev to redline
u ned to have enough gas pressure in ur engine so that the vtec pin could slide

u got find those lantai engine ?

try ask the HONDA NSX 3.0 /3.2 V6 engine. 10000rpm.

---

Added on January 29, 2010, 10:13 pmi think honda perlude enough space for tis engine.


This post has been edited by sincy: Jan 29 2010, 10:13 PM

errr are u sure u r in the right planet? or r u just plain noob about engine transplants...........pls go back to your original planet and not say anything otherworldly in this forum

I think that's the case here, coz we revved the eng both in neutral & in 1st gear oso cannot open vtec..
So we'll w8 till the swap finishes & see if the problem solved by then..


1st of all, wat is lantai engine? Sry i'm a noob here, so still not fully understand some of the terms used here..
Secondly, yes, the nsx eng is powerfull.. but how in hell can i swap that eng under my hood Anyway, I'm trying to make a roadworthy car here.. So a 3.0L eng is out of the question then..

aiyoh...ignore that NSX crap la...its obvious the n00b doesnt know jackshit abt engine transplants...

must think that just buy engine kosong can consider transplant already...

hahaha...nsx engine in prelude engine bay...what a joke la wei!!!

bro f20b vtec is not bad,,but f20b is not a racing type of engine..but still strong..
if u want to produce more power under ur budget,.install turbo kit at 0.7 bar..
will produce 30%-40% from original f20b horse power..
if im not mistaken,.f20b produce 150hp++ and FC 14km per 1 liter..
after install turbo kit,.f20b vtec can produce 200hp easily with stock piston,.gasket,....
and guess what,,.get ready to kick some as$!!!

This post has been edited by preluder84: Jan 31 2010, 11:45 PM

engine lantai is obviously "an engine on the floor" means just the engine, maybe with gearbox, and maybe with wiring depends on the package and no body parts like those halfcuts

about the NSX engine, i totally LOL at the idea. I mean, yes, if u have the cash, u can do the transplant, and the project will depend on how much cash u have because there are so many things that needs to be modified to fit this engine in. And even if u got it running, the car won't be legal to run on public roads.


what's the point of having a turbo kit that ruins the smoothness of the standard engine, pls note that this is a daily used car, if want a turbo engine, get a car that is more suited to a plug and play engine, like a galant vr4. plus......turbo kits with low boost sucks, 0.7 bar is nothing, just a waste of good cash

This post has been edited by stormlcc: Feb 1 2010, 02:59 AM

aiyo bro..huhuhu..why look so angry with my statement..
i said if want to produce more power..
after do research at internet..f20b blue top = 197hp..yes is enuff for daily use..
but what i know,.wuzz_ere is using honda prelude..
mostly honda prelude owner just use is as a weekend car..
but if using it daily no need to bolt on turbo kit la..
layan stock is enuff..
now day have b16a civic turbo,mazda b8 turbo,.gsr,rb nissan engine on the road..
if using f20b stock sure kener tapau la..
but if calculate power to weight i think ok la with f20b stock..


197hp+turbo kit 0.7 bar( stage 1) produce 35% -+ = 266hp-+ with standard piston,rod,ecu,.etc
that a rough calculation..
if using 0.7 bar for iswara engine memng suck la..
but if using turbo on vtec engine the power sure can be easily produce..
~HONDA THE POWER OF DREAM~

vtec+turbo= : -VteBO-


http://www.mudah.my/Honda-Vtec-CF4-F20B-Halfcut-5158859.htm

This post has been edited by preluder84: Feb 1 2010, 10:04 AM

Juz to make it clearer to everyone, im trying to make a car that if not all, have most of these characteristic;
- fast, enough to compete wif current civic type-r, hence the 200+HP (less prone of me kene tapau by my frens wif new cars)
- safe, "with more power, comes greater responsibility" (less prone to c me in hospital, or worse, graveyard)
- roadworthy (less prone to kene tahan everytime roadblock)
- reliable (less prone to be in 'park beside highway/road situation' )
- fuel efficient (less prone to meet with 'org minyak' everyday)
- eye-catching, prefer towards hot-chicks though, not thieves (less prone u c me single till im 60)
- flexible, can be easy &comfortable for either city/highway driving or type-r mode (less prone of chicks leaving my car & call taxi after several speedbumps/plothole, or couples of 'eng mati', or several mins of sweating, or hours of slow boredome)
- cheap (less prone 4 u 2 c me on side walk eating garbage, begging money)
that enough 4 now i think.. haha..

Btw, saw the f20b on mudah.com.my .. cheap, but it's AT they usually rated with 180hp..

Regarding Vtebo, what is 0.7 bar? Cost for overall turbo+installation? Sry for the noob questions, & thx in advance

hahaha..depend on ur driving skill bro..
if u have a powerfull engine,.u need to make sure u have a good-
adjustable suspension,.(tein prefered)
strong brake system..
install roll cage for more safety..

as we already know,,.to build na engine for more hp or power is more expensive..
that why some vtec kaki modified it to bolt on turbo stage 1..if u have money u can upgrade to stage 2 or 3..
more stage more power it will produce..and more money that u need to spend

u can visit this link..

http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...43&hl=turbo+kit

look like this..(this one is 500bhp)


http://www.mudah.my/Prelude-h22a-turbo-kit-3971247.htm

for ur information bro...
h22a head can be install at f20b block..

what i said here if u want to produce some power around 250hp to 300hp..
try f20b stock first..after test and u not satisfied with it u can thinks about turbo kit..
jun honda prelude produce 270hp with non turbo..but the cost is the problem..

and u need to know how to maintain na car and turbo car..

huhuhu...bro..if u have time..do google about vtec turbo at you tube,,and u know what i mean

This post has been edited by preluder84: Feb 1 2010, 01:17 PM

Thx for the turbo lesson bro
but I think I'm heading to the NA way for awhile due to large FC & diff of HP from previous eng..
I scared the car cannot tahan too much power, & I cannot tahan money flowing like river, later my car & my head oso explode

Later if I feel the car still lacking power, maybe I'll go Vtebo

This post has been edited by wuzz_ere: Feb 3 2010, 07:28 PM

huhu..orait,,.
but dont forget bro..h22a@f20b still can kick some as$..
if compare NA and turbo..i will choose NA for my self..
less heat issue..turbo drink petrol like drink water..
if u r choose to maintain FC..yeah!! NA will be a great choice..

Wow, another legend car in the making.

if nak extra kick, cari c30a

TS any update?