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English Clubs Liverpool Football Club- The Kop Talks 2010, Lille next!

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ezikie1
post Jan 17 2010, 01:11 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jan 17 2010, 01:01 AM)
Liverpool supporter should be glad that Kuyt header doesn't go in, if not, there will be excuse season start from here again.
I preferred Liverpool to lose this match if they are not playing well to serve as wake up call, if not, major overhaul will be delayed by a few lucky win, which is badly needed now.

There is nothing to play for furthermore, if loss against Spurs, season for Liverpool could ended already.

If a manager put up 8 defensive player in a match, how do or can supporters expect to win a match. the mentality is like more a relegation team that hope for a draw only from the match, which 1 points is considered enough with this kind of mentality. <--- this is Liverpool???

If Liverpool plays this line up against Chelsea or MU, then may be can find excuse or reason from it, but against Stoke???? This feel embrassing.
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putting in 8 defenders is bad but i dont think Rafa sees it like that....

Krygiakos was in there to provide the aerial advantage, coz Stoke's Delap throw in is a very very dangerous threat...so are their set piece prowess...

Aurelio was in there coz he can be used as a LM as well....and also to be the set piece specialist....

but i did not understand why Degen was in there...Kuyt couldve been the better RM, but i think due to the lack of strikers, kuyt has to leave his RM role and therefore Degen was reeled in....


Added on January 17, 2010, 1:14 am
QUOTE(solstice818 @ Jan 17 2010, 01:08 AM)
They are our next opponent though.Letting them losing confidence and off form is sorta great news to us.
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and we liverpool jsut love the extra pressure dont we? when we're up against manc...with all the odds against us.....we beat them soundly....cant even remember the last time we lose to them rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif

so i think our nxt fixture will be like a "battle for fourth" D-Day....

This post has been edited by ezikie1: Jan 17 2010, 01:14 AM
faizdtk
post Jan 17 2010, 01:14 AM

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match against team like stoke is alway going to be a physical one. that why rafa don`t start the match with maxi and aquilani.maybe aquilani is tired after play the whole match against reading.
cherroy
post Jan 17 2010, 01:16 AM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Jan 17 2010, 01:08 AM)
They are our next opponent though.Letting them losing confidence and off form is sorta great news to us.
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But they are not playing as crap as Liverpool, just firepower lacking.

They may be off-form, but Liverpool is off-morale, playing with no spirit, no proper football or flow, Stoke is playing much better if not on the same level.
Somemore, Liverpool currently plays with 8 defensive minded players, sum up why cannot win a match.

I don't buy the reason cannot take risk (no offence, just my view), now it is almost nothing to play for already, so still scare of losing? Give Aqualani a try, give Pacheco a try, if loss, loss loh, at least try out something, week in week out, playing like this, more sick to watch. There is little difference if finish 6th and 10th.
ezikie1
post Jan 17 2010, 01:34 AM

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okay rafa head hunters plz dont kill me....i aint a big rafa defender i am jsut as frstrated as u all at bad position were in now but plz do have a read

QUOTE

Rafa Benítez deserves the chance to overachieve with Liverpool again
It is always hard to tell much from Rafael Benitez's manner, so guarded is he in public, but those who see a dead man walking must have felt a burst of schadenfreude when he emerged for his Friday press conference clutching his notes.

A Nixon-style resignation speech? No, a Clinton-style apology.
That simple assumption of responsibility, that simple act of modest contrition, punctured some of the mounting hysteria and bloodlust.


This is a man who is not doing his job very well, a man who used to do his job very well indeed less than a year ago. Is it entirely heretical to suggest that Benítez might deserve a chance to put right the mess he has made of this season?
This kind of hysteria is ultimately driven by results, but they have been bad for a while. Suddenly we have reached the tipping point.

The ex-players are wheeled out to pronounce the death sentence but, when it comes to running a multi-million pound football club, do they have credibility? Ronnie Whelan has not managed for eight years but when he did it was Southend and some clubs in Cyprus and Greece. Jason McAteer? He was sacked as John Barnes' assistant at Tranmere this season. Not exactly judges with gravitas.

What about the supporters? There has been fierce loyalty to Benítez at Anfield over the years, especially when he has taken on Tom Hicks and George Gillett. Now a significant portion of the support has turned on Benítez.

It is easy to pour empty flattery on to Liverpool fans, but really they are not much different to football fans the country over. More active than many in taking a direct interest in how the club is run on every level, sure, but still prone to shouting one thing at the final whistle and thinking another when reflecting in the pub.

The mentality of the pack, the mass, the herd develops its own momentum and, from the outside, it is hard to see Benítez surviving beyond the end of the season. This is a real pity because Benítez – eccentric, political, stubborn and vindictive as he can be – is a man who has been overachieving ever since he arrived at Anfield.

Take this rather imperfect analogy: Benítez as a Formula 1 driver. He comes in and starts driving for a team that has a resonant name, a history full of great deeds, fresh memories of famous victories. The problem is, the car isn't good enough. The owner's not putting the money in, the marketing guys can't get the lucrative sponsorship deals and the engineers are complacent.

Still, Benítez drives out of his skin. Race after race, he squeezes every last bit of juice out of this failing car and delivers some famous victories. Then, bang, he loses it. Perhaps it was the persistent technical disasters, that prompted it, but suddenly he is suffused with self doubt: he can't pick the racing line, he breaks too early or too late. He's struggling just to finish, let alone compete.

Now what do you do? Fire the driver? The car is still worse than its rivals – worse and getting worse. For one bad season in which he has failed to overachieve again? You need a special combination of ambition and patience to succeed driving in this team – a combination that is rare enough.

For a start, Liverpool will not sack Benítez before the end of the season (barring open player revolt or a truly comical series of results). Who next? Jose Mourinho? Guus Hiddink? Great drivers but are they going to risk their reputation getting into this car, with its huge expectation but poor performance?

The silver in the trophy cabinet can skew your perspective of a football club. If you are brutally objective about Liverpool, they look like a club equipped for the 20th century not the 21st. Compare them to one of their potential usurpers in the top four, Tottenham Hotspur, who they host at Anfield on Wednesday. It's not a flattering one.

Spurs have not won an away game against the big four since they won in the League Cup at Anfield in November 1998 – that's no away win in 65 attempts. Historically, Liverpool are the superior club. But you look at the future and there is only one club pointing in remotely the right direction.

Tottenham turned a profit last year. The diggers are in at their new training ground at Bulls Cross in Enfield, which will be one of the very best in the world. Planning permission is in for a new 60,000 stadium – the only significant debt the club will take on will be directly linked to the stadium.

If the success of Arsenal's move to the Emirates (the corporate dollar pays: 20 per cent of supporters generate 80 per cent of the earnings) is any guide, Spurs will be able to service that debt with ease.
Liverpool's huge interest payments means that their parent company made a £42.6 million loss in the last financial year. The new stadium in Stanley Park was supposed to be finished by 2012 but remains in limbo, waiting for global economic recovery.

Their debt stands at £240 million but without a hike in match day or commercial revenue, or substantial outside investment, they will spend all profits servicing it, rather than playing catch up on the field. To get Liverpool pointing in the right direction, Christian Purslow, the chief executive, has to turn a tanker in a canal.

On the pitch, Spurs have a squad full of young hungry internationals with a high market value. Even more importantly, they have some of the most promising academy players in the country: John Bostock, Dean Parrett, Andros Townsend and Ryan Mason should all break into the first team in the next few years.

Liverpool have three world class players (Gerrard, Reina, Torres) and a motley crew of the not-quite-first-rate and the definitely-second-rate. The academy has not produced a player deemed fit for Liverpool since Gerrard and seemingly will not any time soon.

Benítez has certainly been one of the main architects of this season's eyesore, but he is also responsible for the construction of some of this club's finest recent monuments.
Dealing with controversial owners and dwindling revenues, Benítez has proved he can get this club punching above its weight. He deserves another round, a chance to put right the mistakes he has made.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/...pool-again.html

This post has been edited by ezikie1: Jan 17 2010, 01:36 AM
kazuki85
post Jan 17 2010, 01:53 AM

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Good article...most people are calling rafa's head out of pure frustration.

But logically, we can't afford to sack and hire another good coach due to our debts. Rate him at the end of the season...then only decide whether he stays or not. smile.gif
digilife
post Jan 17 2010, 02:11 AM

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tonite ONE point is still an achievement thumbup.gif

look at the bright side man

we dun hav good strikers and midfielders tonite

rafa should bring on Pacheco and Maxi should hav came on earlier
rendude
post Jan 17 2010, 02:48 AM

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QUOTE(RyanHoWenda @ Jan 17 2010, 02:11 AM)
its karma after we took after aston villa last min goal. Omfg.
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might be karma or curse coz just to let u all know...dunno if its true coz there's a story saying that d liverpool fc bus did run over not 1 but 2 black cats on their way back to anfield after d Arsenal match on d 28th Oct. That explains alot on our mysterious downfall....if u still believe in karma/bad luck. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
gerrardtorres9
post Jan 17 2010, 03:04 AM

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Reina looked unsteady and struggling, especially with long balls. Ngog's doh.gif terrible strength, control and passes...Poor performance from Aurelio and Degen too.

This post has been edited by gerrardtorres9: Jan 17 2010, 03:05 AM
TSsolstice818
post Jan 17 2010, 03:19 AM

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Our neighbor did us a favor me think...
manx
post Jan 17 2010, 07:03 AM

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i will still and always call on rafa's head until the day he realize that zonal marking is not suitable anymore.... He is so so so stubborn and going to prove to ppl that hi tactics is great.... Dem rafa, please put 2 players on both posts when defending corners...
IcyDarling
post Jan 17 2010, 08:58 AM

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QUOTE(dynames07 @ Jan 17 2010, 04:06 AM)
hi guys. first of all, i'm a chelsea fan. and i just want to give my opinion. for a big club like liverpool, surely the current condition is very bad. for me, i still regard rafa benitez is one of the manager in football world. IMHO, the current problem faced by the club is from the owners. do you ever feel there is thing call LOVE that comes from your owner? for me, they disrupt liverpool and honestly, the thing that keeps the team together is the FANS, and the song of YNWA.
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Okay firstly, other than Manchester United, who else's manager doesnt disrupt the team? You'll have to get along with it.

QUOTE(dynames07 @ Jan 17 2010, 04:06 AM)
managers do make mistake. let us be fair to rafa, he do that mistake under pressure. no transfer kitty, sell players but cannot use the money and many more.. i really pity him. any manager that faced with the problem surely take time to recover or not at all. every team need new player. new player keep the competition healthy, bring new mood to other player in making friends etc

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No transfer kitty? Teams like stoke city spent less, and they manage to snatch a draw from Liverpool. Not every owners can provide a large amount of transfer kit for u to buy superstars. Take United as example, they sold Ronaldo and Tevez and cant even sniff a rumour from the transfer window while Sir Alex continues lying about the "No suitable player in the market". But still, they are in the race for the title. If u bring in new player, u would have to slowly build on his team chemistry, which Liverpool dont have the time for. They need instant results to get back into the race

QUOTE(dynames07 @ Jan 17 2010, 04:06 AM)
next is about the team itself. for me, liverpool need a backup striker. since liverpool like to play with torres up alone, why not try to get andre-pierre gignac to the team? he is strong, nice ball control and a classy finisher. the midfield department of liverpool is superb although an addition of strong and HIGH player (in ballack mould, during his prime era hehe) surely can give tactical advantage to the team. hopefully maxi rodriguez is not a flop. from what i know, he is a very good player. maybe he can fill in the gap during the absence of benayoun.
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Torres' back up striker, N'gog. Lets just hope Maxi dont get destroyed by Rafa's management.

QUOTE(dynames07 @ Jan 17 2010, 04:06 AM)
every team must admit no striker/forward is 100% efficient (scores on every chance presented to him). with this in mind, the success of the team will fall on the rigidity of the back line. if you score a lot of goals, but the opponent also hit you back, that will be pointless. in the first season of mourinho in chelsea, the team only conceded less than 15times all season. some people may say attack is the best defense, but please.. this is just ridiculuos. football world is evolving and for me, this statement is wrong.

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easy for u to say after ur team scored 7 times earlier against sunderland. So, what is football evolving, in your opinion? Concede less means can win? The premier league now shines on all the strikers. Any team could easily score 3 or 4. The era of "clean sheets" has disappeared IMO. Its not like Terry or Cavarlho is the star of the team now. It is Drogba who score goals.


-Nos-
post Jan 17 2010, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(IcyDarling @ Jan 17 2010, 08:58 AM)
Okay firstly, other than Manchester United, who else's manager doesnt disrupt the team? You'll have to get along with it.
No transfer kitty? Teams like stoke city spent less, and they manage to snatch a draw from Liverpool. Not every owners can provide a large amount of transfer kit for u to buy superstars. Take United as example, they sold Ronaldo and Tevez and cant even sniff a rumour from the transfer window while Sir Alex continues lying about the "No suitable player in the market". But still, they are in the race for the title. If u bring in new player, u would have to slowly build on his team chemistry, which Liverpool dont have the time for. They need instant results to get back into the race
Torres' back up striker, N'gog. Lets just hope Maxi dont get destroyed by Rafa's management.
easy for u to say after ur team scored 7 times earlier against sunderland. So, what is football evolving, in your opinion? Concede less means can win? The premier league now shines on all the strikers. Any team could easily score 3 or 4. The era of "clean sheets" has disappeared IMO. Its not like Terry or Cavarlho is the star of the team now. It is Drogba who score goals.
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Excuse me sir, what are you trying to implicate with the bolded statement?

Attacking football gets you goals but defending wins you the championship.
Obviously strikers get the applaud but great defenders are the unsung heroes in the team.
Do you think MU/Chel/Ars can secure every match with 3-4 goals albeit leaking goals here and there?
Terry aka Mr Chelsea is not the star of the team? lulz

This post has been edited by -Nos-: Jan 17 2010, 09:44 AM
madmoz
post Jan 17 2010, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(mamet @ Jan 17 2010, 12:46 AM)
its official: Lucas suck.
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On the contrary, I think he was one of our better players last night.

QUOTE(ezikie1 @ Jan 17 2010, 01:06 AM)
i think Rafa's going with a safer bet...a defender rather than Aqua who's a little less experienced with English football (not that Degen has much more, coz most of the time he's with the physios) and having maxi right into the thick of English football is just too big a gamble...

but i think its at least positive that he's putting in more attacking minded guys (maxi and aqua) even after taking the lead....
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Already mentioned it earlier in the old thread - it is not a stroke of genius starting defensively, fluking a goal and then put in your attacking options. Shouldn't it be attack, score and then defend lead with the defensive guys and not the other way round? rclxub.gif

QUOTE(dynames07 @ Jan 17 2010, 03:06 AM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
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WTF is this? Copy pasta-ing your older post is the new black? First fk222, and now this fella. You guys are attention whores or just plain f*cking idiots? We read ya wall of text the first time. No need to repost it lo.
cherroy
post Jan 17 2010, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(-Nos- @ Jan 17 2010, 09:43 AM)
Attacking football gets you goals but defending wins you the championship.
Obviously strikers get the applaud but great defenders are the unsung heroes in the team.
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The problem is Liverpool has none on both.

Defence leaking goal almost every match, I can only remember only 1-2 match Liverpool manage to have a clean sheet since the season start and almost leaking every away match.

Striker no firepower at all, but can't blame the players if manager decided to put 8 defensive players in yesterday match, and 2 DM holding players every match. Who will feed to ball to upfront and create goal opportunity if like that?

Macherano and Lucas are not known to put some thru pass, and craft out goal opportunity. So does Degen, and Aurelio. So technically there is no midfielder to put some passes that create goal opportunity, that's why my view yesterday match was 8-0-2 formation. (Aurelio is good in set piece and quality crosses)

Liverpool supporter can accept can't win the league or miss out 4th place due to lack of transfer kitty to buy top player, but what supporters feel bad is that, Liverpool is playing crapping football at the moment, and strange tactic all along.

I don't feel excited and hopeful on every match Liverpool plays currently.
Last time, whenever Liverpool plays, I think most supporter will think, tonight most probably can win. But now, supporter mind will be, today will ne another crap football display and loss?

Occassionally off-form, loss, ok, can accept
Occassionally, no luck, loss due to sucker punch by opponent counter attack goal, ok
Occassionally, some deflection goal by opponent, ok, luck factor

But at least the team perform well, play well and threat to opponent goal which at least supporter feel hopeful when seeing the match time.
But we only see crap and disjointed play all along.

Rafa first year keep on rotating, which a lot of people already said doesn't make sense. It took full whole year, before Rafa changes the rotation policy.
Now it is obvious playing 2 DM holding midfield is not working at all.


madmoz
post Jan 17 2010, 10:48 AM

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Mascherano did hit a few beauties last night, loooooong passes from midfield that found n'gog mostly.
But then again, those balls kinda bouncde off N'gog due to his 'excellent' first touch.
IcyDarling
post Jan 17 2010, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(-Nos- @ Jan 17 2010, 10:43 AM)
Excuse me sir, what are you trying to implicate with the bolded statement?

Attacking football gets you goals but defending wins you the championship.
Obviously strikers get the applaud but great defenders are the unsung heroes in the team.
Do you think MU/Chel/Ars can secure every match with 3-4 goals albeit leaking goals here and there?
Terry aka Mr Chelsea is not the star of the team? lulz
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By bolded statement, it mean the owners are causing troubles to the manager.
i mean by now, when u say Chelsea, whos's the first guy that come into ur mind? Its drogba for me. It might be Terry and it should be but Drogba's scoring abilities shadows Terry
-Nos-
post Jan 17 2010, 10:57 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jan 17 2010, 10:43 AM)
The problem is Liverpool has none on both.

Defence leaking goal almost every match, I can only remember only 1-2 match Liverpool manage to have a clean sheet since the season start and almost leaking every away match.

Striker no firepower at all, but can't blame the players if manager decided to put 8 defensive players in yesterday match, and 2 DM holding players every match. Who will feed to ball to upfront and create goal opportunity if like that?

Macherano and Lucas are not known to put some thru pass, and craft out goal opportunity. So does Degen, and Aurelio. So technically there is no midfielder to put some passes that create goal opportunity, that's why my view yesterday match was 8-0-2 formation. (Aurelio is good in set piece and quality crosses)

Liverpool supporter can accept can't win the league or miss out 4th place due to lack of transfer kitty to buy top player, but what supporters feel bad is that, Liverpool is playing crapping football at the moment, and strange tactic all along.

I don't feel excited and hopeful on every match Liverpool plays currently.
Last time, whenever Liverpool plays, I think most supporter will think, tonight most probably can win. But now, supporter mind will be, today will ne another crap football display and loss?

Occassionally off-form, loss, ok, can accept
Occassionally, no luck, loss due to sucker punch by opponent counter attack goal, ok
Occassionally, some deflection goal by opponent, ok, luck factor

But at least the team perform well, play well and threat to opponent goal which at least supporter feel hopeful when seeing the match time.
But we only see crap and disjointed play all along.

Rafa first year keep on rotating, which a lot of people already said doesn't make sense. It took full whole year, before Rafa changes the rotation policy.
Now it is obvious playing 2 DM holding midfield is not working at all.
*
That is what going on in Liverpool now.
People keep saying the attacks are blunt without El Nino and Stevie G but the defends are not performing as well resulting the slump now.

I never like Rafa's tactic. It has been said by many he plans to not lose, not trying to win the game.

smwah
post Jan 17 2010, 11:13 AM

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We don't have choice. First players like Torrers and Gerrard injured. Then last season players like Alonso no more in the team. Problem is we don't have back up players in order to play a winning tactics. Yes we have many players, but these players were not welly exposed to games. Is just like like asking them do something which they not familar. Of course the game is competative not like in training ground, everything can be predict. So this is how we ends now. Blame the manager never really mould up a backup squad. These are the players were choose to bought by Rafa. So how you want to judge by this? Super cheap players? Losing and struggle with low division team is our big big problem. Clean sheet as long we able to score more goals than what we conceed then is win. We are bad in defence and attack, so how to win? Cannot scroe goals? Better play for draw, so 8 defensive players onl yesterday game. Very safe game to play.
qqmeng
post Jan 17 2010, 11:19 AM

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i know this has been brought up too many times... but i still wanna ask... in this season how many goals (in %) we hv conceded thru dead ball situation?

zonal marking? ...man...
madmoz
post Jan 17 2010, 11:20 AM

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Disagree. You make it look as if we are a team being in the EPL for its first season ever. We have the players - lemme see, if Aqua can last 45 minutes, and Reira another 45 then we would have a creative guy on the pitch at all times instead of eight guys who's better going backwards than forwards. We also have Maxi and Babel who was probably playing videogames on his computer last night doh.gif

Playing for a draw against Stoke? Yeah. Way to go.

P.S. If we cannot afford to sack Rafa, can we move him to someo ther position such as Technical Director or Youth Academy Director or something like that? Being the proud chap he is, he'd probably resign soon thereafter and go to Juventus anyways.

This post has been edited by madmoz: Jan 17 2010, 11:34 AM

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