Liverpool supporter should be glad that Kuyt header doesn't go in, if not, there will be excuse season start from here again.
I preferred Liverpool to lose this match if they are not playing well to serve as wake up call, if not, major overhaul will be delayed by a few lucky win, which is badly needed now.

There is nothing to play for furthermore, if loss against Spurs, season for Liverpool could ended already.

If a manager put up 8 defensive player in a match, how do or can supporters expect to win a match. the mentality is like more a relegation team that hope for a draw only from the match, which 1 points is considered enough with this kind of mentality. <--- this is Liverpool???

If Liverpool plays this line up against Chelsea or MU, then may be can find excuse or reason from it, but against Stoke???? This feel embrassing.

The 4th candidate now is ManC.

No point to look on others and hoping and praying other to draw or loss, if ownself cannot win a match.

But they are not playing as crap as Liverpool, just firepower lacking.

They may be off-form, but Liverpool is off-morale, playing with no spirit, no proper football or flow, Stoke is playing much better if not on the same level.
Somemore, Liverpool currently plays with 8 defensive minded players, sum up why cannot win a match.

I don't buy the reason cannot take risk (no offence, just my view), now it is almost nothing to play for already, so still scare of losing? Give Aqualani a try, give Pacheco a try, if loss, loss loh, at least try out something, week in week out, playing like this, more sick to watch. There is little difference if finish 6th and 10th.

The problem is Liverpool has none on both.

Defence leaking goal almost every match, I can only remember only 1-2 match Liverpool manage to have a clean sheet since the season start and almost leaking every away match.

Striker no firepower at all, but can't blame the players if manager decided to put 8 defensive players in yesterday match, and 2 DM holding players every match. Who will feed to ball to upfront and create goal opportunity if like that?

Macherano and Lucas are not known to put some thru pass, and craft out goal opportunity. So does Degen, and Aurelio. So technically there is no midfielder to put some passes that create goal opportunity, that's why my view yesterday match was 8-0-2 formation. (Aurelio is good in set piece and quality crosses)

Liverpool supporter can accept can't win the league or miss out 4th place due to lack of transfer kitty to buy top player, but what supporters feel bad is that, Liverpool is playing crapping football at the moment, and strange tactic all along.

I don't feel excited and hopeful on every match Liverpool plays currently.
Last time, whenever Liverpool plays, I think most supporter will think, tonight most probably can win. But now, supporter mind will be, today will ne another crap football display and loss?

Occassionally off-form, loss, ok, can accept
Occassionally, no luck, loss due to sucker punch by opponent counter attack goal, ok
Occassionally, some deflection goal by opponent, ok, luck factor

But at least the team perform well, play well and threat to opponent goal which at least supporter feel hopeful when seeing the match time.
But we only see crap and disjointed play all along.

Rafa first year keep on rotating, which a lot of people already said doesn't make sense. It took full whole year, before Rafa changes the rotation policy.
Now it is obvious playing 2 DM holding midfield is not working at all.

Manager should be the one shoulder all the blame, because he is the one responsible to choose, to buy, to train, and how the team plays. Rafa is not a new manager in Liverpool anymore, the result of having which players, who being bought or sold is down to manager responsibility. Yes, Liverpool doesn't have large amount of money that can be spent to buy top players, at least play some decent footballl, also can.
It is a total Rafa team now.

Bare in mind, Liverpool purchase are not super cheap one as well, it might not top class, but a team that spent 20 mil (Aqualani), 18.5 million on Johnson (which total spending of 40 million) is something ordinary club is not affordable one.

Cannot score goal, play for draw as Liverpool team against Stoke(which is classified as big 4)?
This is not a right mentality. It is suicide tactic, tell opponent, hey we cannot score one.

Then what about against Chelsea, Arsenal or MU time, play for to lose 0-1, considered as "success"?

If one aims to not win, then one never will win. See why there is giant killing in FA cup, because the lower league team has the right mentality to win and fight for it and believe even technically they might be not good in term of skill. At least supporter feell every cent worth by seeing the team play like this even loss the match one.

Cannot score, then try how to score or play differently or search the formula to score goal!
Liverpool is not that bad until reaching the state cannot win against Stoke and resort to ultra-defensive to seach for a point.

We are not talking about winning the league or playing free-flowing football like Arsenal, Chelsea or MU. We are talking can't even play decent football against Stoke, against Reading!

Bare in mind, all the team players are professional footballer, they are not considered newbie in football, when you are professional, when team needed you, you need at least carry out the task. I don't like the excuse some players are not exposed to game. If keep on with this reason, then they never will expose to the game. Just like Aqualani case, keep on saying not match fit so cannot play, if not playing him, how can he gain the match fitness.

It is not about how other team doing, it is how Liverpool play and performance matter the most, which is clearly disappointing.

It is like comparing who is worst rather than comparing who is better. So if you are in worst category, even you are No1 or the best in the worst cateogory, you are still worst, get what I mean.

Trace back 5-6 game back

Lose to bottom league club Portsmouth 2-0.
In Wolves game, if not the sending off by opponent, still struggling to get a goal
In Aston Villa game, lucky ball deflection create goal opportunity for Torres to score goal
In Reading game, Liverpool has 2 chance or 2 matches to get past a lower league team (Reading) to proceed in FA cup, yet fail to score a single goal, apart from Gerrard goal which is due to deflection as well
In Stoke game, it is mistake by GK the lead to goal.

Liverpool yet to score a proper goal or proper win since matches ago.

---

Added on January 18, 2010, 12:41 amInsua was at right post of Reina when the Stoke goal went in.

How funny is that Liverpool players raised hand for offside (I believe it was), when you have 1 of your own player standing at the post.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Jan 18 2010, 12:41 AM

Juve make to bid for Rafa?

Manager also be included in transfer list nowadays?

Can Liverpool put a price tag of 20 mil on Rafa? Like that don't need to sell Torres to balance the financial book.

My view,
Please don't play lone striker + 2DM as it won't get the team anyway.

King Kenny or not, also nvm. The one Liverpool urgent need is to play positive, dare to play, go for it, strong determination to win game, instead of putting up a line-up not to lose like playing 8 defensive minded players in starting 11, if count in GK, then 9.

If Insua and Carra push up (like the rest did), then the Stoke players (3 including Huth) will be offset when the first header to Huth time.

As I said before, half of the team push up, half stay back, poor defending. Be it zonal or man marking, both also poor.

If Insua at left post, instead of right or both post are guarded, then may be can prevent the goal.

Either guard both, or not guard, but take in between and take the wrong side.

Seriously, it is better to guard the post, with Insua and Masherano, as both won't win you much header against opponent 6ft+ centre back. My view only.

Yes, pretty hard to set offside trap with that, but from the replay, some players like Krygiakos already push up before Liverpool win the header or yet start the counter attack, (which was why Huth is a freeman there), suggested they were playing offside trap in mind and somemore players raised hand for offside when Huth scored.

Liverpool being dumped out early, league cup, FA cup and CL this year as well.

Rafa see positive in Stoke match?

Quoted from www.soccernet.com
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=726782&cc=3888



I can only see Stoke City bombard the goal mouth of Liverpool and Liverpool play 8 defensive minded players on that match resulted in 1 shot on target for entire match and a lucky goal due to mistake by Sorensen. May be the 1 shot on target is the goal itself?
May be I switched on the wrong channel...

Current most Liverpool supporters are not happy, not because cannot get league title, but the poor performance throughout matches after matches, and need to rely on lucky deflection, opponent GK made mistake, opponent players sending off to win games.

I have no problem Liverpool cannot win the league, but not the like poor performance, ultra-defensive tactic (like against Stoke) that supporters lose hope one whenever watch a match.

We want to see players put up good performance, good determination which result in good performance, not the like having more possesssion only in every match, but no threat at all to the opponent goal.

If youngster is more hungry and more determination to fight, why not try them a few matches, after all, even play the senior players, there is no good result matches after matches.
There is not much to play for now, although 4th is still possible, but I don't have any single confidence Liverpool can achieve it with recent month or month like performance.

Liverpool is playing or having lousy performance and result in away match this season.

Home games still reasonable ok with

Win-draw-lose goal scored-conceded
7-2-2 28-11

Away is awful
4-2-5 12-15

Too negative/cautious for away match, wrong tactic?

I think it has been many games since Liverpool had some good performance and more positive in last night game.

Ngog may not be the best, he is not bad either.

Ya kinda agree
Won MU 2-0 but lose to Portsmouth 2-0 and cannot win against Stoke.

I hope it is not another false start or season begin from here again.

Yup, I keep on wonder how come old days like 70-90's, there is no such or little issue of players overplayed, play too much, burn out etc issue. But now, even play once every week, burn out issue coming out.

Do remember as well, old days, boots are more heavily, less sophiscated, pitch is worsen than nowadays. Not to mention, there is no such thing of diet, nutrient specialist to take care of players health as well and medical also less advance. But yet modern football, we see more injuries to players compared to the past.

New generation less tough than old generation??
May be like in working field that I had experience, I do find newer generation is less tough than old generation be it physically or mentality. I do not know.

This is on paper only.
We don't see it on the pitch.
We only see disorientated defence, leaking goal defence, no final third passing, no creativity, no threat to opponent goal most of the time.

On paper and real match performance is 2 different thing as we are not playing football manager.
If the performance is bad, no matter how well it looks from paper, it is as good as none.

$$$ wise is a lot a lot difference.

Too negative in the line-up as well.

It is a 3 points must game and expect to have a simple walk-away match, (no offence to Wolves), but yet play 2 DM again.

At 0-0, I hardly understand why not throw Babel, Pacheco a try or even Aqualani into the last 10-20 mins.

Have nothing to lose or play for if cannot get 3 points on lower league table team. It is not different to be 6 or 16 in the league table.

A point from each game is a relegation candidate.