Hi all,

I have a problem with resignation. My company resignation guideline requires 2 months of notice for resignation or pay 2 months salary for in lieu of notice.
I want to resign now and willing to pay the 2 months salary. I want to resign now because the new company wants me now.

But the problem is my manager doesnt want to accept the 2months salary payment in lieu of notice. She forced me to work for another 2 months as she said there will be business impact if i resign now. I asked HR regarding this and the HR said that my manager has the right to do so!

I was very surprised as there is no statement written in my offer letter and also in the company guideline that my manager has the right not to accept the 2 months salary and can force me to work for another 2 months !

I asked HR what if I just abandon the job and go to the new company. The HR strongly adviced me not to do so as this is really unprofessional. The HR said I will get backlisted in the company and would not be able to re-join in the future. The HR said that is the only consequence if I just abandon my job and she strongly adviced me not to do so because you cant forecast your future. Maybe in the future I want to or have to rejoin the company, who knows.

QUESTIONS

1) Do you think the only consequence if I just abandon my job is blacklisted in the company? OR do you think there are other bad things can happen that the HR hide from me?
2) Can I report my case to Labor Office as there is no written statement in anywhere saying that the manager/company can opt not to accept the payment in lieu of notice? Is my case valid? I feel cheated by them. They forced me to work for another 2 months or otherwise they will blacklist my name in the company.

Please help me.
Thanks.

i think you has the choice of pay 2 months salary.

if not.. y the hack the offer letter wrote "or pay 2 months salary for in lieu of notice" ????

report to tenaga buruh la....they will scared i tell u..haha

(^__^)

I never rejoined back the company i quit. a person usualy resign solely for one reason, there is other company with something better we liked.

dun think u will ever come bac to your old company.

I think its even unprofessional for the HR ppl to say she can do so. and yes you can pay back. if not, refer to the labour law.

don worry. as long as you pay the notice in lieu, you can leave the company. there is no way the company can stop you from leaving since you are willing to pay up.

of course, they can blacklist you because of this. but since you plan to leave and you actually pay up, there's nothing much you can do with how the company would want to react about this whole thing (if they wan to be unprofessional)

the company just trying to scare u..all they ever care was their profit..that's why they try to scare and confusing u..
u have the opt for pay 2 months salary and just scram from the company..do what u wanna do..

actually, the HR manager is right, damn unprofessional if u just leave like that

Unless it is clearly stated u can give 24 hours notice then u go ahead and do hell.

If not, don't lor

If u dun like the current job, find one that u like. U have MCs anyway, utilize them

I don't understand your argument.
1. It's already stated that the dude can either give 2 months notice or payup 2 months salary.
2. He already found the job the he likes.
3. Utilizing your MC to do other things, how professional is that?

I worked in HR before. To be frank, your HR is stupid. If you're trying to sue the company, you can get some pocket change by suing the HR agent who said that as well.

Found a good website on labour law:
http://www.pesaraonline.net/

Alternatively, you can complain/seek your advise through our labour department:
http://www.mohr.gov.my/index.php?option=co...mid=550&lang=en

sorry I misread. If nothing stated in the contract, leave whenever u want

Not a problem. Your manager has no choice. If you want to pay 2 months salary in lieu of notice, she has to take it.

Who cares? She can't force you.

HR is lying through their teeth.

Trust your own assessment. Simply do exactly what your contract says.

Is this the same HR which was lying above? What do they know about professionalism? Being professional is fulfilling your (contractual) obligations. And by paying the 2 months salary in lieu of notice, you're doing exactly that.

Your HR is correct here. The only consequence is that the company will probably not rehire you in the future. Now... is that such a bad thing? All the stuff about it being a small world... it doesn't matter. If you're good at what you do and you've got what it takes (ie. what other people want), they'll come looking for you regardless of how you screwed with them before.

Every other month, we have staff who disappear the day after getting their salary. They're supposed to give one month notice or pay one month's salary. People either give the required notice, or if they cannot wait that long, we calculated how many days "short" their notice is, and they "pay back" the pro-rated equivalent for that number of days.

This "pay back", is always a deduction of any salary we owe them. It has never ever happened that they actually give any money back to the company. Many of the staff don't bother. They keep quiet till the day they get their salary, and they don't turn up the next day.

It depends on what kind of job you're doing, and your position. The more senior, the less likely they are to do this. Leaving in this way always results in some loss. The salary is paid a few days after the end of the month, you lose any unpaid commission, and annual leave entitlement, etc.

I might be missing something here, but isn't a positive Letter of Recommendation worth something? Or references, for that matter?

Why would you want a recommendation or reference from a manager or company that does not respect a contract, and try to manipulate their employees to misrepresent their contractual obligations?

Folks,

A reference is ONLY as good as the person / party that make the reference.

So, if a company is FAMOUS for treating their employee lousily and produce inferior product and service, does a POSITIVE REFERENCE matters??

Conversely, some people (I say people not company) is very influential and has a GOOD REPUTATION in the industry. You REALLY do not want to be in their black list.

Some people matters and some don't. It is UP to you to figure who they are and try to be connected with them.

Dreamer

Hi guys,

Thanks for your inputs. I'm afraid if there are other bad things happen because I smell something fishy when the HR told me many times that dont abandon the job.
She said the only consequence is blacklist in the company....but I feel there is other bad thing that she hides...

The company is actually very big and famous in the semicond industry.......what I'm really afraid is if the company will tell the whole semicond industry to blacklist me too....can this really happen? OR am i just afraid of my own shadow?

I dunno who I can trust in the company anymore....I really feel got cheated right now....

I'm really afraid to get blacklist in the whole semicond industry....i dont want this to be happened as I'm still young....who can protect me???

Please help me.
Thanks.

did u check with ur HR before even looking for other job?

actually, is the company good to you? how long u work there?

This post has been edited by DDSFan8: Jan 6 2010, 01:42 AM

if you leave without giving any notice or pay for your notice period then u are wrong.

If your case, u inform them and willing to pay, i dont see any problem in business world.

Why would the whole semicond industry do what your company says? Why would your company's competitors follow your company's instructions to blacklist?

If I were your competitor, I would hire none of the people you recommend and all the people you ask me not to hire. That's if I bother to take your phone call or read your letter at all.

Industry wide blacklisting, in my opinion, is only limited to very small industries where all the players join the same local area trade association or chamber of commerce. But if you're talking semicon, it's typically huge companies operating globally and which spend all their waking hours on increasing sales and reducing cost. They can't be bothered with helping their competitors with petty & trivial issues.

Would your resignation will cause an undue stress towards a certain project that you are working on? Anyway, the HR Department has nothing to say if you are willing to pay the 2 (two) month salary in lieu of notice. Would your company suffers major setback(s) from the effect of your resignation? It is well understood that the company's HR is protecting it's business entity and to keep it afloat.

It can be tempting to liberate pent-up hostilities and frustrations you may have built from what your HR Department has said, but do remember, you have played your part by resigning in a professional manner. Now the ball is over their side. It's either they are willing to play ball or start just jocking around with you.

Professional speaking, try to work things out only if your resignation will jeopardise the flow of your project operations. If it doesn't have a significant or catastrophic effect to the said project, I'd say you have done your part and needless to worry even if they are going to chart your name in the black list.

Regards, Joey

p.s: Lastly, think things through and resign like a professional.

This post has been edited by Joey Christensen: Jan 6 2010, 09:42 AM

To Ts:

Your contract governs your relationship with your company, so there is no way on this earth any other person can start implying terms that were not there in the first place.

If you have served your notice period or paid the penalty (2 months notice) to the company in accordance with your contract, than whatever this "other" people say are completely irrelavant. Of course, you will need to keep all supporting documents in case someone decides to play it dirty.

To my knowledge (albeit limited), there are no employment that does not permit an employee from resignning from his/her job. Unless of course, an employee signs his/her contract blindly without reading, this may be an exception.

Hence,

If you give in to the threats by the Company your with, the next time around when u intend to resign, they will pull out all the same stops or probably even something more creative because they know your a timid person.

If you give in, your "Prospective" employer will blacklist you because you fail to take up their offer!

---

Added on January 6, 2010, 9:47 am

By the way, did you apply for the position or did you get head hunted by your new company?

This post has been edited by aurora97: Jan 6 2010, 09:47 AM

when other companies interview u can tell them of your predicament and say u did your best and it's that company that refused to do so

It seems like the replies given are pretty obvious. Your manager and HR cannot restrain or keep you from leaving if you're ready to pay for the 2 months' salary.

Seriously, I can't believe there are companies who'd go to that extent to lie. If you wish to report them, make sure you keep evidences (emails, sms etc).

This post has been edited by sweet_pez: Jan 6 2010, 11:35 AM

yep.

have them send you a black and white stating specifically in which part of your contract does it is say that you cannot leave. give them a deadline to do so

if they reply, take that email over to the authorities.

if not, that simply means that they know they're wrong to begin with.

You can always pay with the 2 months salary.

Imagine you are not finding new job, but having some urgent family/personal issue.
Pay 2 months is your only choice

I hope what u r saying is true....

Hopefully, anyone from HR here can verify this....is it true that the company will not blacklist me in the whole industry?

I'm afraid because the company is a giant....and i'm just an ant, i cant really foresee what kind of actions the company can take....

ok, the word semicond here interest me...coz i am in semicond too. mind sharing which company? coz i may be joining another semicond. so wanna make sure the new one dat i am going to join is not the one you are referring. pm me if not appropriate to post it here.

but anyway, forget wat the HR person tells u. basically the person who actually says dat shows the unprofessionalism. there is no way a company can hv such a big influence to the industry as in not to hire a specific person just because the person wanted to leave by paying 2 months notice!

Why don't you propose a win-win situation to your manager, like you will leave the job in one month notice and pay the remaining month, so that you won't abandon your job just like that, and being labelled as unprofessional.

It is good to stay for one month for hand-over process to your colleagues. However, you need to negotiate with your future employer as well and describe your situation to them. Most employers will accept a one-month notice period.

Then don't leave lah. Just stay the 2 mths if you're so afraid. Don't do anything you're not comfortable with.

I think you should just sit down & think. How can a blacklist possbly be maintained for the entire industry? Which company keeps the blacklist for the entire industry's behalf? Which company is responsible for making updates to that list? Which company is responsible for checking that list before somebody in the industry hires? Which company would be so kind to do all that work for its competitors?

Besides, are you really an important enough person for the entire semicon industry to want to keep track of?

This post has been edited by seantang: Jan 6 2010, 09:45 PM

hey dude~ ur manager is considered force you to work for another 2months.

I support you goto Labour Office~ Report this case~

Willing to pay 2 months salary= fit the requirement / contract~

Just go~ 99.9% of the employee will not work with their previous company unless the field is very small & competative!~

well just my 2 cents.

it's rather un-ethical to just leave your job suddenly (even though it's stated in ur handbook that you only required to give 24 hr notice or etc.)

try to negotiate with your current co. so that you can leave maybe in 1 mth time, so that the so-called biz impact is not severe

at the same time, try to talk with the new co. as well lor.

you are aware of the 2 mth notice beforehand rite, did you let the new co. knew about it?

just a word of advice, don't burn bridges ... the world is really small and it's getting smaller every day ...

If I'm the manager of the TS, I'll do everything to screw him up. Publicly, with HR's cooperation. Nobody quits w/o notice on me when I'm chasing a deadline.

Just to let others know that I can be totally unreasonable and evil when betrayed.

Work has a strong personal element to it. It's not just about contracts.

I believe what Lim said is correct, 2 months of pay is already a form of compensation say if you choose to cease work immediately. So in other words, it is also a part of your right.

In the meantime, your offer letter also didn't state the boss has the right to restrain you from resigning with immediate effect, of course it's his right to say anything but it's a non legally binding right. So no big deal, just push through your resignation.

good luck!!!

Ya, if u feel like wana leave, just leave.
According to labor law, all employees can pay in lieu of notice.
Just make sure u don look back.

I have the impression that the company is only copying the term "X month(s) pay in lieu of.." without knowing what it is.

But I would suggest you tender your resignation officially NOW. At least, no matter whatever ding-dong-ing going on, the clock is ticking.

hmm~ X month lieu of notice...it's terrible~

just to kongsi this thread.

I face the same situation too, my new employer wanted to buy me off unfortunately my current employer refuse the buy-off and wanted me to serve my 3 months notice. My new employer don't mind to buy off my 3months but my current employer die2 want me to work additional 1 1/2 months.

My probation period only 3 months and Jan is my third month, and i haven't receive my confirmation letter yet and they already assume me confirmed staff so hv to serve my 3 months. I told them i did not sign the confirmation letter yet, but they told me it is auto-confirm which is totally bulls###. But... my superior did verbally say will confirm me during my appraisal la.... any ideas? I plan to tell them, i will only give my 1 month notice or see them in industrial court.

hey aKatoRA, how come ur situation is 70% similar as my current colleague situation~ don't tell me you're my collegue~ cheers:

seems like the issue is not just happened to me...
if we see at the sight of the contract, yeah...we have the right to pay the notice...

but the problem is, we want to leave with everyone is happy, dont want to burn the bridge....the fact is, it is very hard.....
like one of the forummers said, a job is just not a contract based, there is emotional and personal attached to it.....so, be careful.....

so who fault do u think when a employee leave a company?

any idea? clue?

Is really depand on ur jobs industries, if ur sector very small , it might a risk as ur worry, if it is a genaral sector , don't be scare the blacklist task.

if u do the jobs very prof. , eventhough u don't want to left , the other co. also going to ask u to join there co.

It just a changer on ur jobs live, don't be afraid.

The HR is try to scare u , becouse they only do their part as they hold the position (HR). On my opinion, ur HR are not prof. as well. (did't give prof. guide & scare Boss angry).

U also can give reply or guide to who's are taking ur jobs. (e-mail / telephone). may try to stay a week to handover / settle the position stuff to ur assistant.

If u stay back in this co. , u think u can do ur jobs as normal like previous time ? ur superior may try to embarrassed u since u had submit the resignation.

Just paid as requirement & handover whichever stuff & let ur boss understand ur status, they will agree & let u go.

nelson,

definitely i am not ur colleague... i hope. I am from fmcg, are you?

If my compayny really wan me to pay the 3months, i will ask them to write me a letter and i will bring it to industrial court. 3 months salary is alraedy more than rm10k which i don't see in the eyes of law i need to pay.

to others: take this as a lesson for all of you who planning to resign as i foresee a lot ppl will resign this few months. If they threat you with this kind of HR talk, threat them back with industrial court. Always remember, malaysia's Employee Act always side employee not the employer

3 months salary > 10K means you're not covered by the Employment Act.

And since you have an individual employment contract and not a collective labour agreement with your employer, you're not covered by the Industrial Relations Act ie. the Industrial Court is not open to you.

This post has been edited by seantang: Jan 9 2010, 12:20 PM

then I'm not your colleague le

wah..3 months salary > RM10K kinda attractive salary ya~

no covered by employment act = monthly salary < RM1500?

how abt find IR.

You are wrong there. It doesn't make sense at all if the Employment Act 1955 which is used to governs the laws for the labour force in Malaysia is one sided, does it?

Regards, Joey

p.s: Same goes to the Industrial Relations Act, 1967 (IRA).

Wait...... means i not covered by industrial relations? Then what can i do? Kinda lost now.

Joey, it's true that the EA is not 1 sided but in reality ( correct me if i am wrong as i got the info from HR ppl) it side the employee more than the employer

i'm confuse as well

It's quite obvious, they just don't want to let you go. Black mailing is wrong. You should just go.

Will let them know today that i decided to go. If they insist on the 3months i will refer it to IR

Sry can i leech of you, can i have the SOS pls.

Thanks.

This post has been edited by aurora97: Jan 11 2010, 02:49 PM

my friend told me even director can sue the company under the IR

Read this case of ex-GM from MOX that sued MOX and got RM 1.3m from his ex-employer.
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...1991&sec=nation

For salary below 1.5K per month, they are protected by Labour Law. For salary above 1.5K, you are covered under Employment Act. You can go to Industrial Court just like the case reported in Star. In the news, the GM's monthly salary was RM27,125 not inclusive of a RM4,500 car allowance.

Legally, you have the right to pay the 3 months in lieu and just leave. But, you have to verify the information first. It is true that there are industry practice that competitors do not take each other staffs. Competitors also share information. One example is Petroleum industry. I am not sure about your industry. Better check first.

The other thing you have to be cautious:

a) Are you playing a critical roles that will cost problem if you don't stay for 3 months? In some cases that I know, critical persons left abruptly and caused the entire project to delay and the company suffered financial penalty from the customer. If this is the case, you have to be more careful for long term problems.

b) The best deal is to have win-win situation. Pay 50% and stay back for a while until the company find a replacement.

Only look bad the next time you wish to hop to another company. They will ask for referees or PIC. How are you going to answer?

Reality is ugly but truth will prevail, right? I spoke the truth. Only truth shall be spoken.

Regards, Joey

Actually another reason is pay a bit low or less job so resign . But after some time company may starts to pick up more business and u can actually get re-hired with higher pay. Seen that couple of times on some ex-staffs who came back after few years. So normally if possible, not to get blacklisted if one day decide to come back.

This post has been edited by LeechFever: Jan 11 2010, 03:38 PM

That's true. Nevertheless, world is small if want to remain in the same industry. So, when apply next job, you will probably see the ex-colleagues there.

Furthermore, the older you are, the more senior positions you are targetting. A lot of big companies and MNC are using recruitment firms nowadays. As a result, reference checks (the headhunter mostly will not take the reference stated in the cv) can't be avoided.

Company has reasons to keep a person. Under this economy situation, if i can let go staff without cost, I will do so to cut down the headcount and cost. If I cannot cut, there must be reasons.

So, think twice.

I guess you'd want to say they are in favour of employee than employer.

Then again, as others have said - it doesn't really work that way.

You seem scared. Don't be. The world is so big, and they won't waste their effort on you. Just go ahead.

taken if he still work for 2 months..there is still a probability(which usually happen) he will get blacklist..as long as he quit the job..he will get blacklisted..