If you are in HR perhaps you can clarify this better.

Can a registered company deduct salary for being late?

Does the law allow this?

Thank you.

Xuzen

Sound like you are another victim of today KL's flash flood.

Not only can deduct the salary, terminate also can.
With 3 warnings letter, you are out already dude. Discipline issue.

Donno if this apply to you, check this out :

http://www.lawyerment.com.my/library/doc/empl/dspt/

depends on company. usually company would't do that unless u are not the ppl they want.

cina man company

If I had my own money on the line.

and there are retard workers like you.

I will fire you without remorse. = )

This post has been edited by omnimech: Dec 3 2009, 11:55 AM

I am looking at the Employment Act 1955 2001 Ed and in Section 24 of the Act it states the no deduction shall be made by an employer from the wages of an employee otherwise than in accordance with this Act, and none of the subsection allow deduction from being late.

So my question still remain, does the company have the legal right to do it?

Xuzen

Sony Malaysia practise it

You must clock in @ 7.59am or kena deduct salary by 1sen per minute if im not mistaken...

Yes they can, they can set rules like if u havent come in after 9.30am then will be considered as 1/2day leave, and they can issue warning letter..

Yes yes, it really doesn't matter how late you stayed, becoz retards like you only look at figure and time clock.

1 sen per minute? I'd come in 10 hours late. Only cost 1 sen x 60 minutes x 10 hours = RM6. Late whole month cost RM132. Minus from my pay. I don't mind. Few thousand still masuk poket nicely.

Lets not get emotional, I want to know from a policy or legal perspective.

Thanks.

Xuzen

try running your own business and you will understand.

you do know that half the malaysian workers arent very efficient .

they leave by 6 . and they come in late the next day claiming traffic jam.

listen to that excuse enough and you will get pissed off.

I personally work till 12 am most of the time and sometimes till 2 am. and i still make it into the office by 10 .

eventhough my company practices flexible time.

On the contrary, it is retards like you who make all types of excuses for yourself to justify doing things against the rules = )

I am not getting emotional, I am just copying the word "retards".

Thanks.

Check your company policy. It usually depend on that. If it clearly states that your salary can be deducted if you are late, then you can't do anything. If it doesn't, take the trouble to go to labour department and claim a few extra bucks. On the back end, those with higher position will end up f**king up your life in the office till you quit.

Take a pick.



This post has been edited by sameer27: Dec 3 2009, 12:27 PM

Siapa rasa pedas, makan cili.

That statement alone is sufficient.

Getting in late occasionally doesn't make one a retard worker (though I personally would really prefer the term 'non-performing').
I agree with you that using the same old excuse is very pissing off and there are alot of employees who love to 'ular' but it all really boils down to your management style and principles.

Most ang mohs and MNCs evaluate their staffs based on end result or performance, rather than the amount of hours that you commit or sacrifice for the company (which is GENERALLY quite typical of cina man companies).

Yes, agree. It was quite a culture shock to transition from a Main Board Bursa Listed company with proper guideline listed in the employee handbook to a Family owned SME company.

Xuzen

You're definitely cina.

---

Added on December 3, 2009, 2:19 pmAgree on this very much. I used to work in CinaMan company and we had this siren that goes off (means on or off break). Droves of us will enter or exit the building; haha good times. Then I went into MNC with flexi hours and now trying to get rid of my CinaMan-ness on perspective of work- its true about work-life balance; there is no virtue in staying back in office if you hit your goals on a consistent basis for example. Other examples include skimping on company claims- what is the point if company skimps on employee welfare when he is on biz trip (cheap hotel, eat economy rice etc) when that will be detrimental to his performance, say if the fella is going to seal some company contracts. If he does not perform well there, who stands to lose in the end. Thats why a bit of penny wise pound foolish there.

Now at least my take home pay is on the top percentile of salaried professionals of my age group in Msia. At TS, my old CM company does not deduct pay for late once in a while. If really bad@$$ get letter of discipline first; got couple of loyal company workers get this say once/twice a mth - 10 to 15 mins late but still ok. If you are infamous at being late, obviously fire (but the boss don't use terms like retard la).

This post has been edited by kaiserwulf: Dec 3 2009, 02:19 PM

go read your employment letter, does it say that you can waltz in anytime you like? i doubt it very much

my ex-colleagues who works in a data center just spent the whole night tidying up the cables for a couple of server racks until around 5-6am. he had to report himself to office by 9am also. what happened was he came in and slept until lunch time. its the company's policy for all the staff to be in the office by 9am.

for my current company, if you have too many latecomings, you will receive a warning letter

You're paid to work 'x' number of hours per month and it should be very clear in all company policy eg 5 days week - working hours from 9am to 6pm etc... While there are some companies that maintain flexible working hours, this is usually not the norm or will only apply to a specific department.

Different company will have different policy to deal with latecomers but I think most will usually issue warnings before actually deducting the salary. So, yes - a company can take action if you're late for work.

According to Labour Law employer cannot simply deduct the salary. Don't listen to the bullshit that company policy stating can. No company policy can overide Law. However, the employer can issue a warning letter to you for being late if it is in the company policy though. Normally 3 warning, sayonaro.

This post has been edited by TitaniumZ: Dec 3 2009, 03:55 PM

i'm in a japanese factory, we have 15min tea break in the morning and 30min for lunch(compulsory eat at company's canteen).
company still owe us 15min break (let's say one day normally is 1 hr break)

does my company against the labour law?

only 30min lunch break...? Kinda like those times back in primary/ secondary school

I'm curious too, it there a regulation somewhere that states stuff bout lunch time?

ya, it's exactly like being in school with lots of rules and regulation to follow.
bag and water bottles kept in locker, no water bottle allowed to put on table, cannot use handphone during working hours and etc

i have a great culture shock when i move from an MNC to here

My ex copany did this.... Fine Rm 10 if late.. but the money didnt go to management.. it is accumulated and used as social gathering expenses among colleagues

labour law does prevent them from simply deduct...unless your consent is given...

which means...if u signed the employment contract, with a condition that allows them to do so, then they have the legal right, you already grant them the right!!!!

if you did not, and the deduction is baseless or without consent, then you can sue them....

wait until u be a employer of someone and u get really frustrated to see your workers come in late constantly even MNC where every second counts
never find excuse of public transport problem ,traffic jam, staying really far, family problem and etc
some of u are very good on using labour law to protect yourself but how bout ur performance??
that is why so many people complain about salary problem salary was too low
if you were the employer how are you expecting to get promote with this kind of attitude?
ask those middle or top management ppl how do they work and pay how much effort to get promoted to the position that they are having right now

The employment contract is silent on this issue.

According to some of more senior colleagues, the company did even have a memo on this issue. This is getting on my nerve.

When pressed further, the colleagues just kept quite because they are afraid of the HR manager who happens to be the boss' relative.

Xuzen

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Added on December 3, 2009, 5:40 pmThe issue we are trying to address is the legality of whim and fancy deduction of salary by a registered company. It has nothing to do with performance. Please do not complicate the two issue.

I know that there are Section in the Employment Act that allow the employer reprieve against tardy employee but deduction of salary in not one of them.

Xuzen

This post has been edited by xuzen: Dec 3 2009, 05:40 PM

Seriously, when things came to a point you need to bring in law to solve things, it usually result in unhappy ending. Because afterall, labor law do not protect cheap degree workers like you and me: we earn too much as a laborer, earn too little as a white collar. In the end, you are wasting your time.

Most of the time, we are still at the mercy of our employer.

u sure most of u didnt out of topic as well?
im agree with what rexis has to say
try to use labour law infront of your boss and u will end up leaving a bad impression and tell yourself if it wasn't a mnc imagine your future would like to be in the company
there is 1 cantonese saying your 3 yrs old childhood can determine ur adulthood of 80 yrs and its very much true
someone who came late constantly and u dun really expect to get performance from that particular employee as well
this is my own humble opinion hope i didn't get anyone feel offended

1 advice: always make sure that you read your employment contract word for word, and make sure to look out for clause that states the disciplinary actions that will be taken when you're late or always on MC or emergency leave etc

i know japanese companies are very strict with punctuality bcoz that's their culture where discipline is highly regarded

I'm working in Japan with a Japanese company and I'm telling your first hand that punctuality is very important. If you're going to be late 1 minute, it's no different if you'll be late for 15 minutes as salary deduction is rounded to 15 min intervals. Tardiness is really frown upon.

But if you're late because of valid reason for eg public transport system breakdown (which happens sometime), then they have a generic letter from the transport company that you can present to the company to get exemption.

A lot of you chaps spout Employment Act this, Employment Act that... you do realise that the Employment Act only covers employees who draw salaries below a certain ceiling, right?

And if you are above that ceiling, you are not in the scope of the Employment Act... you do know that, right?

Hmm... does this mean that you're not efficient? Since you do have to work until 12 a.m. MOST of the time.

That being said, I find it funny that you said "try running your own business and you will understand" AS IF you are representative of all business owners out there. There are many businesses who doesn't have the same kind of working hours you have, and they've been around for decades. Why is that?

Dude, the Employment Act covers more than just employees below a certain salary ceiling. If you're earning wages, you're also covered, amongst other things.

Sigh... it is no use to fight with the big boys.

The only consolation is that the deduction is peanuts compare to the salary offered.

But when my subordinates ask me about this, I will just ask them to refer to the HR dude aka Relative to Da Boss.

Xuzen

You might want to read the First Schedule of the Employment Act again, where it defines the term employee as being someone whose wages do not exceed RM1500. The only exceptions to the wage ceiling are if he is (1) engaged in manual labour, (2) drives a commercial vehicle, (3) supervises manual labourers, (4) works on a Malaysian registered vessel (with some exceptions) and (5) a domestic servant.

In addition, it only covers employment carried out in Peninsular Malaysia.

Here's an article published on IEM's website. Bit old (2003) but applicable nonetheless.

This post has been edited by seantang: Dec 4 2009, 05:46 PM

Any self-respecting, reputable company will give this ex-colleague the day off. Nobody else to take his shift the next day is it? F*ed up mate.

I agree there is a breakdown of communication here.

On the employee side, sometimes some flexibility is needed. On the employer side, they don't know whether staff "ular" or really couldn't make it on time.

That's the problem in Malaysia right now, there in SME there is no reasonable effort being made to manage and evaluate employee performance... Maybe it is too difficult for management because they are always worried about making money, but seriously, there has to be a new relationship established between employer and employee and have a "shared vision". What is expected.

Do you know how shocked I was when I see punchcard system for HQ jobs when I came back to Malaysia? It's not a frickin' factory or McDonald's dude, it's an office with supposedly educated, responsible adults.

There has to be a better system. Don't tell me Malaysian employees, with no punchcard system everything will fall apart. A decent management should be able to tell the level of competency and quality of work being performed without having to use punchcard. I challenge SME employers -- see what happen if you can handle if no punchcard system at your office.

I could be wrong, maybe Malaysian workers are really *that* bad? Need to treat them like children?

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Added on December 5, 2009, 12:07 amYa bro, one can read up all the lawyer stuff but you vs. your boss aka Datuk something-something you think who is going to win the argument?

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Added on December 5, 2009, 12:11 amSome people obviously lie and take advantage of situation. But traffic is bad in KL, KTM kommuter--- have you tried to take it? During peak times they probably should need like Japanese, the special attendants to "press" all the people into the train. KTM kommuter in peak time, kena molest nicely also you wouldn't know. And bus? OMFG. Taking the bus is not much better for many reasons.

As for you, omnimech, you may be super-worker, congrats to you, but other people would still like to contribute but have different priorities in life and are *entitled* to their time.

Punctuality is an issue but is only one measure of the quality and suitability of an employee.

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Added on December 5, 2009, 12:17 amDon't even make me bring up "work from home". Do you all know how common and effective this is practised overseas? But the way things are now, I understand in regular Malaysian workplace this can be difficult to even consider implementing.

But that's just my view, maybe I am already straying off topic, excuse me if I am ranting too much.

This post has been edited by nvidia2006: Dec 5 2009, 12:17 AM

obviously this is a CHINAMAN company. One of the many reason I will never, ever work for such a company is those so called 'abusive' rules. I work for an American company, one of the top 10 largest company in the world, and we will be the laughing stock around the world if we had this kinda rules. Our rules are pretty much like Google Inc. , ... and the funny thing is in such a friendly and relax environment, ppl would actually wanna come in early in the morning than the stipulated time, with FOC tea/coffee, newspapers, snacks ... .. Guess most small CHINAMAN company like yours is to narrow-minded to have such thing.

This post has been edited by Mackiddo: Dec 5 2009, 02:27 AM

There are some MNCs that implement such practice but it is not prevalent.

One of the company that I audit has this 40 hours cap, where you are only required to work 40 hours per week, and if you work 10 hours the night before, then you can come in later or leave earlier the next day, but need to clock at least 40 hours per week, otherwise your salary will be deducted. They are allowed to leave at earliest 4.15pm, some comes in at 6am so that they can leave earlier.

Another Jap company starts at 8.30am sharp, break for lunch at 11.15 for an hour and clock out at 5pm to avoid the rush hours.

I think it is only fair for them to deduct if you CAN leave at 5.30/6.00 pm sharp and compensated for OT.

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Added on December 5, 2009, 7:27 amThere are some MNCs that implement such practice but it is not prevalent.

One of the company that I audit has this 40 hours cap, where you are only required to work 40 hours per week, and if you work 10 hours the night before, then you can come in later or leave earlier the next day, but need to clock at least 40 hours per week, otherwise your salary will be deducted. They are allowed to leave at earliest 4.15pm, some comes in at 6am so that they can leave earlier.

Another Jap company starts at 8.30am sharp, break for lunch at 11.15 for an hour and clock out at 5pm to avoid the rush hours.

I think it is only fair for them to deduct if you CAN leave at 5.30/6.00 pm sharp and compensated for OT.

This post has been edited by chess_gal: Dec 5 2009, 07:27 AM

somebody jz need to understand...an employment is a mutual relation
employer pay to acquire service from employee...
employee deliver service to get paid...
do good for each other, then things work out good....
make it look bad then...all hell went loose...

1 thing employee need to ask themselves, did i did something wrong to get deducted? did i work really enough for the employer..or i'm taking advantage on them?

employer has their own question too....is squeezing employee every bit really beneficial for me? should the employment relationship should limited to $$ only?

employment act is there to protect the employee, in another view, is to provide a guideline to employer as well, the minimal you should do, to ensure an employment not going into haywire...
e.g. i believe some employer did encountered sabotage, did you ever question back, what u did that pushed tat employee to that extent? can it be actually been avoided if both of you did worked right for mutual benefit?

our labour law isn't jz protect <1.5k group, it isn't jz 1 line...but law is still law...if u choose not to obey it, law is not exists...

at the end, if it is an unhappy relationship, its ur choice, to mend, or to break

That's not a fair judgment. Some posts back, someone mentioned most of us are averaged Joe/Jane here, and average Joe/Jane isn't likely to work in Google. An average company will have to hire a lot of average people, and since Malaysians are LARGELY not very productive, there's bound to be such rules abound to well.. basically get actual work done.


Plus, the existence of companies is to make profit, which goes on to, including others, paying the salaries and bonuses of employees.
Btw, I'm no expert in legality issues, but I take the stance that the company do have the prerogative rights to discipline tardy employees, especially if the tardiness has the potential to cause serious workplace disruption. Now whether tardiness is defined as 1 minute late, or MIA for half the day is highly subjective according to company rules and regulations as well as the employee responsibilities.

Just like how the Syariah Law is limited to Muslims only, the Employment Act is limited to employees in the First Schedule only. And that means in <1500 unless it's one of the listed exceptions.

Every law and statute has a scope of application or ambit. Laws are explicit in application. If it applies, it applies. If it does not, it does not. No such thing as "law is still law".

That's just sad. For those who earn 2k and above - if the employer wronged us, it's hard to take action since we're not being covered.

When it comes to pay deduction, it's a sensitive issue. Our company's factory side implemented an incentive. As long as in 1 month - the staffs did not clock in late (not even 1 minute late) they'll receive additional RM100.00. If a worker was late once, RM30.00 will be cut off from the incentive. So when this worker is late for 3 times, there goes the incentive.

my point actually is quite simple, there must be a mutual trust between the employer and employees. It's hard to be bound by a very specific rules and regulations. I believe if you treat an employees good and fairly, the employers is the one who gain in the end.

QF frickin' T

Work Ethics.

Simply put it like this when a person is in another persons home ( be it a neighbour/club house or even in another country), as a visitor one is expected to abide by the rules/laws/customs/practices of the host persons home.

Comparison between Asian and Western working culture, there's no point comparing cultures or work ethics... regardless how many adv or disadv one can point out in this thread. THE FACT is nothing will change any time soon!

THE fact:
1. We work because we need money
2. we need money to achieve a better lifestyle
3. We sign an employment contract means we promise and agreed to the terms of the company. (no gun or amount of torture necessary becayse the desire to achieve a better lifestyle drives us to look for work)
4. We quit a job because we don't like the job or one has manage to find a job that offers a better lifestyle (again this is done voluntarily)

Relating back to companies, each company have their in-house rules pertaining to do's and don'ts. The rules are there for a reason(s). If one is simply unhappy about it, one can choose to resign from the company.

This is the unfortunate fate of being an employee.

The Law vs Employer

The law is there to protect Employees from unscrupulous Employers taking advantage of the employees i.e. termination without notice, sacking without cause or whatever the reason may be.

However we keep forgetting Employees are also none the better?

Example 1:
a clerk in my dept tendered 24 hrs left during lunch didn't even have the guts to inform us that she left. The loop hole she relied on (apparently she knows more about the law)? She didn't sign the Appointment letter, as such she is entitled to leave by giving 24 hrs notice.

Agreed.

I find there are more ppl abusing the law to their advantage compared to using it against unscrupulous employers.

Scrutinizing every inch of their employment contract in order to bail out (example) 5 days into their employment without being reprimanded.

Just look at threads on the forum pertaining to resignations.

this is the wrong perception rexis, the labour dept actually is pro-employee compared to employer. If the complainant comes with clean hands, if the complaint is genuine, i dont see why not a case should not be brought against an employer.

No offence. People who normally say this are usually because they are ignorant.

Agreed.

Agreed

Yes, ur ranting too much. Must be a culture shock to u.

Refer to Work ethics.

Good for you. ur ranting too much.

Refer to work ethics.

This is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth:
somebody jz need to understand...an employment is a mutual relation

employment act is there to protect the employee, in another view, is to provide a guideline to employer as well, the minimal you should do, to ensure an employment not going into haywire...
e.g. i believe some employer did encountered sabotage, did you ever question back, what u did that pushed tat employee to that extent? can it be actually been avoided if both of you did worked right for mutual benefit?

our labour law isn't jz protect <1.5k group, it isn't jz 1 line...but law is still law...if u choose not to obey it, law is not exists...

The employment law does only protect ppl who earn <1.5K,this is a fact. To protect unskilled labourers (possibly whom have very little education or none) for being exploited by their employers.

Ppl who earn >1.5K, whom are suppose to be "educated"/skilled/white collar are suppose to negotiate or at least know how to read their contract or have the knowledge to their the difference between what is good bad right and wrong seems to be the ppl who need more protection?

You seem to contradict yourself.

And YES the law only protects ppl who earn <1.5K, if u earn >1.5K take it up with the labour dept/courts.

This post has been edited by aurora97: Dec 5 2009, 07:21 PM

they can only deduct if you are absent without leave

QFTed. I also go on weekends on my own time; company makes it so easy and comfortable- coffee/drinks dispenser works, light and aircond. No sirens or 30 mins lunch time rules. Old chinaman C i used to work with? I leave the gates of the building... my mind throws everything away and goes DotA mode.

so funny la all d comments here.

yes, deduction can be made cos u dint work those hours.

if i late 5 mins can deduct salary?
30 mins? 8 hours? 3 days?

i been in mnc using SAP, i clock in late 5 mins also deduct gaji.

of course u can always bring this to labor dept and make a hoohah, its ur hak asasi pekerja utk buat aduan.

Yes the comments here are indeed strange...

Basically, there are mis-perceptions:

1. Whether the employment act is applicable or not?
if applicable, the company cannot deduct salary for being late

2. Some ppl argue on the point Asian (CINAMAN) Vs Western (MNC) company.
Totally irrelevant and highly debatable.

3. Everyone needs to understand, an employment is a mutual relationship i.e. a willing employee and a willing employer who wants to employ the employee.

4. As such when the employee pens his name down on the employment letter, he/she has agreed to the terms/guidelines/rules/customs and practices among other things.

5. IF an Employee Disagrees with such rules he/she can resign from the job voluntarily at any time.

You make some good points. And maybe it is all culture shock to me. But some of the points you make are clearly why there is a big problem, in my view in Malaysian workplace today.

Yes there are abuses of the system by employees. Of course there should be a mutual understanding and work ethics in place so employer and employee can collaborate well and achieve desired results.

In theory what you say sounds very nice. But in reality, let's face some other facts which some people have encountered.


1.
If there is no law for those earning > 1.5K then what are the guidelines in place? What are minimum hours? If it is based on the contract, then most contract states "you may be required to work for extra hours etc. etc.". If there is a dispute on contract wording, etc, who is going to resolve, the courts? Employment law for everybody is important because it sets basic guidelines for employers and employees, improves productivity by reducing the need for dispute and litigation. In some cases it is to protect the health of people because in countries (like Malaysia) where the government has free or subsidised healthcare overworked workers can encounter many health issues which the government has to bear the expense, while the employer doesn't have to bear the expense for unhealthy workers.


2.
"People just work for money". I think while this perception dominates Malaysia will never progress beyond "the developing country that's better than Africa and places like Vietnam but behind US, UK, Australia, Europe, Singapore, maybe even some cities in China, India, South America..." ... If you all truly feel Malaysian, 1Malaysia, or whatever, you will realise the goal of people is to improve their lives and their communities. Money is of course the basic unit of survival, but in many other countries art, good government, research, all contribute greatly to improving a country. Do you think Malaysia will ever create a Google, Twitter, CNN? Do you think there will ever be a pure Buatan Malaysia electric car that wasn't developed because of billions of overspending by the government? What sort of world-class universities do we have? Where it isn't just students from Africa and the Middle East that come here?

People need to have a more holistic view of wealth and economy. In the longer term view, GDP growth and the status, attractiveness of a nation goes beyond just wages. Yes, overseas most people work just to get income. But there is a system in place for great achievements in science, research, technology, manufacturing, agriculture. You say, work is just for money. But for the employers as well, what about pride in what their company does? Corporate social responsibility?

All these advance a nation, and guess what, makes everybody richer as a whole. Working for more than money can eventually lead you to have more money as a country and a higher standard of living.

Again, I'm not saying, eg., US and Europe is perfect. But how did they achieve, and maintain, and despite the debt market meltdown, still have such a higher standard of living? Why are talented Malaysians continually leaving the country and not coming back? Not just money. Malaysia has good weather, good food, people have family here, golf courses, decent shopping, many nature activities. People are not leaving just because they can get x amount more overseas, starting a new life with no friends and family in a cold foreign country is no joke.


3.
"Relating back to companies, each company have their in-house rules pertaining to do's and don'ts. The rules are there for a reason(s). If one is simply unhappy about it, one can choose to resign from the company." ... "this is the wrong perception rexis, the labour dept actually is pro-employee compared to employer. If the complainant comes with clean hands, if the complaint is genuine, i dont see why not a case should not be brought against an employer."

Again, you talk about an ideal situation. But from my experience and the experience of many others I am sure, there exists such a power gap between you and your boss (because they have access to funds, they have a higher social status, they may be Datuk this-or-that and have government connections). This power gap results in reality, to a situation whereby having a rational, mutually respectful discussion between employee and employer is not really possible. As a new employee, or as someone being offered a job, you try discussing your appointment letter, conditions of work, then going to the Labour department (which doesn't cover you anyway if you are more than 1.5K, right?) and your boss will probably think you are trying to be funny and "punish" you in underhanded ways.

Or, you will be asked to find a new job. Which then is a loss for the employer because they have to pour (waste) even more resources of finding people that are all just looking to survive, collect their salary, and then leave after several months or just over a year.


4.
Many economists say growth and improvement in the wealth of people in a country comes from productivity. Yes, what you spell out as work ethics is the basic principles of employment. But while thismusical chairs game between employees and employers continues, there are enormous losses in productivity which limit everybody from making more money.


5.
This time I am confident I am not ranting. For those that just want to survive, just get their paycheck, just follow their daily life, if you are happy, that is your right. But, if, as a Malaysian citizen, like me, you believe in this country and community, there needs to be a new standard, a new level, a new attitude for better collaboration between employers and employees. Of course the people that just cabut and are lazy should be filtered out. The problem is that talented, dedicated people (I have seen this personally) get victimised or burnt out as well because employers have "given up" and treat every worker the same as just "an ordinary worker, whatever".

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Added on December 6, 2009, 11:33 am

And how many cases are there where the employer also reasonably adheres to the terms/ guidelines/ rules/ customs/ practices in a fair manner? Many people here and those you know can cite instances where what you would consider "good employees", do not receive the appropriate reciprocal fair treatment from the employer.

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Added on December 6, 2009, 11:45 amMore money may mean a "better lifestyle" but does not necessarily mean a better life.

People changing jobs for RM 200 more a month is very common in Malaysia, as I understand and have observed. WTF? What better lifestyle or life do you get if this means you're always changing jobs here and there to try and get something better? And for RM 200 extra you travel an extra 1 hour each way by bus or in terrible traffic jam that makes you even more stressed out?

I would think improvement in skills, job satisfaction, distance to work, ease of access to public transport or road systems to get to work would also matter besides money.

Of course if you're talking between 1.5K and 2.5K or 2.5K and 4K this can have a big impact on your personal wealth. But the frequent changing of jobs and unhappiness because of a few hundred RM here or there is what I find, strange.

And the concept of "better lifestyle" -- means what, a BMW instead of a Kelisa? A house instead of a condo? Getting the latest Tissot watch or LV bag? Getting to show this off to your colleagues and friends? Jamming up the roads even more and the increased air pollution in our cities? More stress chasing down parking spots at ever more crowded car parks? Then having only the weekends to cram in all your activities at super-crowded malls? Not having enough time for your parents, your child, leaving the maids to teach them the important things in life? Stabbing co-workers and friends in the back to get ahead for this "better lifestyle"?

This post has been edited by nvidia2006: Dec 6 2009, 11:55 AM

It's not an "if". It's the current status.

The relationship between an employer and employee is firstly contractual. Only if the employee is covered by the Employment Act, the provisions of the act override the contractual stipulations. If the employee is covered by a collective or union agreement, then the Industrial Relations Act comes into play.

Otherwise, it's contractual only (within the bounds of criminal, immigration, taxation, EPF laws etc). That's why people should read what they sign, and don't sign if they don't agree. Countries like Malaysia and Singapore have chosen not to provide safeguards for stupidity or ignorance.

I think nobody is arguing that a universal employment law (like in Germany) is not 'important'. You're preaching to the converted.

The discussion is whether it applies or not.

This post has been edited by seantang: Dec 6 2009, 12:21 PM

"Can a company deduct salary for being late?"

Solutions to the question above.

Issue 1
TS earn <1.5K ---> Answer No ---> Protected by Employment Law

Next step:
Labour Department to file complaint.

Issue 2
TS earn >1.5K ---> Answer Yes ---> Subject to letter of appointment/ in-house rules/guidelines/policy/practice and customs.

Net step:
Come earlier to work next time or resign.

any HR person can issue a show cause for late attendance for sub1500K workers. in labor, late attendance is minor offence but comp can take action one, esp on prorate the salary (means potong gaji) based on the duration the worker did not work as stipulate in employment e.g 8.30-5..30.

u guys having way too much fun being offtopic liao.

actually when i saw this "I personally work till 12 am most of the time and sometimes till 2 am" i dont think u are a efficiency people too

no offences for u working late, but going back home in time is oso not a crime , but coming late .....my boss very good ^^