Work Ethics.
Simply put it like this when a person is in another persons home ( be it a neighbour/club house or even in another country), as a visitor one is expected to abide by the rules/laws/customs/practices of the host persons home.
Comparison between Asian and Western working culture, there's no point comparing cultures or work ethics... regardless how many adv or disadv one can point out in this thread. THE FACT is nothing will change any time soon!
THE fact:
1. We work because we need money
2. we need money to achieve a better lifestyle
3. We sign an employment contract means we promise and agreed to the terms of the company. (no gun or amount of torture necessary becayse the desire to achieve a better lifestyle drives us to look for work)
4. We quit a job because we don't like the job or one has manage to find a job that offers a better lifestyle (again this is done voluntarily)
Relating back to companies, each company have their in-house rules pertaining to do's and don'ts. The rules are there for a reason(s). If one is simply unhappy about it, one can choose to resign from the company.
This is the unfortunate fate of being an employee.
The Law vs Employer
The law is there to protect Employees from unscrupulous Employers taking advantage of the employees i.e. termination without notice, sacking without cause or whatever the reason may be.
However we keep forgetting Employees are also none the better?
Example 1:
a clerk in my dept tendered 24 hrs left during lunch didn't even have the guts to inform us that she left. The loop hole she relied on (apparently she knows more about the law)? She didn't sign the Appointment letter, as such she is entitled to leave by giving 24 hrs notice.
QUOTE(mjjj @ Dec 3 2009, 05:37 PM)
wait until u be a employer of someone and u get really frustrated to see your workers come in late constantly even MNC where every second counts
never find excuse of public transport problem ,traffic jam, staying really far, family problem and etc
some of u are very good on using labour law to protect yourself but how bout ur performance??
that is why so many people complain about salary problem salary was too low
if you were the employer how are you expecting to get promote with this kind of attitude?
ask those middle or top management ppl how do they work and pay how much effort to get promoted to the position that they are having right now
Agreed.never find excuse of public transport problem ,traffic jam, staying really far, family problem and etc
some of u are very good on using labour law to protect yourself but how bout ur performance??
that is why so many people complain about salary problem salary was too low
if you were the employer how are you expecting to get promote with this kind of attitude?
ask those middle or top management ppl how do they work and pay how much effort to get promoted to the position that they are having right now
I find there are more ppl abusing the law to their advantage compared to using it against unscrupulous employers.
Scrutinizing every inch of their employment contract in order to bail out (example) 5 days into their employment without being reprimanded.
Just look at threads on the forum pertaining to resignations.
QUOTE(rexis @ Dec 3 2009, 05:46 PM)
Seriously, when things came to a point you need to bring in law to solve things, it usually result in unhappy ending. Because afterall, labor law do not protect cheap degree workers like you and me: we earn too much as a laborer, earn too little as a white collar. In the end, you are wasting your time.
Most of the time, we are still at the mercy of our employer.
this is the wrong perception rexis, the labour dept actually is pro-employee compared to employer. If the complainant comes with clean hands, if the complaint is genuine, i dont see why not a case should not be brought against an employer.Most of the time, we are still at the mercy of our employer.
No offence. People who normally say this are usually because they are ignorant.
QUOTE(seantang @ Dec 3 2009, 08:42 PM)
A lot of you chaps spout Employment Act this, Employment Act that... you do realise that the Employment Act only covers employees who draw salaries below a certain ceiling, right?
And if you are above that ceiling, you are not in the scope of the Employment Act... you do know that, right?
Agreed.And if you are above that ceiling, you are not in the scope of the Employment Act... you do know that, right?
QUOTE(seantang @ Dec 4 2009, 05:32 PM)
You might want to read the First Schedule of the Employment Act again, where it defines the term employee as being someone whose wages do not exceed RM1500. The only exceptions to the wage ceiling are if he is (1) engaged in manual labour, (2) drives a commercial vehicle, (3) supervises manual labourers, (4) works on a Malaysian registered vessel (with some exceptions) and (5) a domestic servant.
In addition, it only covers employment carried out in Peninsular Malaysia.
Here's an article published on IEM's website. Bit old (2003) but applicable nonetheless.
AgreedIn addition, it only covers employment carried out in Peninsular Malaysia.
Here's an article published on IEM's website. Bit old (2003) but applicable nonetheless.
QUOTE(nvidia2006 @ Dec 5 2009, 12:05 AM)
Any self-respecting, reputable company will give this ex-colleague the day off. Nobody else to take his shift the next day is it? F*ed up mate.
I agree there is a breakdown of communication here.
On the employee side, sometimes some flexibility is needed. On the employer side, they don't know whether staff "ular" or really couldn't make it on time.
That's the problem in Malaysia right now, there in SME there is no reasonable effort being made to manage and evaluate employee performance... Maybe it is too difficult for management because they are always worried about making money, but seriously, there has to be a new relationship established between employer and employee and have a "shared vision". What is expected.
Do you know how shocked I was when I see punchcard system for HQ jobs when I came back to Malaysia? It's not a frickin' factory or McDonald's dude, it's an office with supposedly educated, responsible adults.
There has to be a better system. Don't tell me Malaysian employees, with no punchcard system everything will fall apart. A decent management should be able to tell the level of competency and quality of work being performed without having to use punchcard. I challenge SME employers -- see what happen if you can handle if no punchcard system at your office.
I could be wrong, maybe Malaysian workers are really *that* bad? Need to treat them like children?
Added on December 5, 2009, 12:07 am
Ya bro, one can read up all the lawyer stuff but you vs. your boss aka Datuk something-something you think who is going to win the argument?
Added on December 5, 2009, 12:11 am
Some people obviously lie and take advantage of situation. But traffic is bad in KL, KTM kommuter--- have you tried to take it? During peak times they probably should need like Japanese, the special attendants to "press" all the people into the train. KTM kommuter in peak time, kena molest nicely also you wouldn't know. And bus? OMFG. Taking the bus is not much better for many reasons.
As for you, omnimech, you may be super-worker, congrats to you, but other people would still like to contribute but have different priorities in life and are *entitled* to their time.
Punctuality is an issue but is only one measure of the quality and suitability of an employee.
Added on December 5, 2009, 12:17 amDon't even make me bring up "work from home". Do you all know how common and effective this is practised overseas? But the way things are now, I understand in regular Malaysian workplace this can be difficult to even consider implementing.
But that's just my view, maybe I am already straying off topic, excuse me if I am ranting too much.
Yes, ur ranting too much. Must be a culture shock to u.I agree there is a breakdown of communication here.
On the employee side, sometimes some flexibility is needed. On the employer side, they don't know whether staff "ular" or really couldn't make it on time.
That's the problem in Malaysia right now, there in SME there is no reasonable effort being made to manage and evaluate employee performance... Maybe it is too difficult for management because they are always worried about making money, but seriously, there has to be a new relationship established between employer and employee and have a "shared vision". What is expected.
Do you know how shocked I was when I see punchcard system for HQ jobs when I came back to Malaysia? It's not a frickin' factory or McDonald's dude, it's an office with supposedly educated, responsible adults.
There has to be a better system. Don't tell me Malaysian employees, with no punchcard system everything will fall apart. A decent management should be able to tell the level of competency and quality of work being performed without having to use punchcard. I challenge SME employers -- see what happen if you can handle if no punchcard system at your office.
I could be wrong, maybe Malaysian workers are really *that* bad? Need to treat them like children?
Added on December 5, 2009, 12:07 am
Ya bro, one can read up all the lawyer stuff but you vs. your boss aka Datuk something-something you think who is going to win the argument?
Added on December 5, 2009, 12:11 am
Some people obviously lie and take advantage of situation. But traffic is bad in KL, KTM kommuter--- have you tried to take it? During peak times they probably should need like Japanese, the special attendants to "press" all the people into the train. KTM kommuter in peak time, kena molest nicely also you wouldn't know. And bus? OMFG. Taking the bus is not much better for many reasons.
As for you, omnimech, you may be super-worker, congrats to you, but other people would still like to contribute but have different priorities in life and are *entitled* to their time.
Punctuality is an issue but is only one measure of the quality and suitability of an employee.
Added on December 5, 2009, 12:17 amDon't even make me bring up "work from home". Do you all know how common and effective this is practised overseas? But the way things are now, I understand in regular Malaysian workplace this can be difficult to even consider implementing.
But that's just my view, maybe I am already straying off topic, excuse me if I am ranting too much.
Refer to Work ethics.
QUOTE(Mackiddo @ Dec 5 2009, 02:25 AM)
obviously this is a CHINAMAN company. One of the many reason I will never, ever work for such a company is those so called 'abusive' rules. I work for an American company, one of the top 10 largest company in the world, and we will be the laughing stock around the world if we had this kinda rules. Our rules are pretty much like Google Inc. , ... and the funny thing is in such a friendly and relax environment, ppl would actually wanna come in early in the morning than the stipulated time, with FOC tea/coffee, newspapers, snacks ...
.. Guess most small CHINAMAN company like yours is to narrow-minded to have such thing.
Good for you. ur ranting too much.Refer to work ethics.
QUOTE(dinozilla @ Dec 5 2009, 08:02 AM)
somebody jz need to understand...an employment is a mutual relation
employer pay to acquire service from employee...
employee deliver service to get paid...
do good for each other, then things work out good....
make it look bad then...all hell went loose...
1 thing employee need to ask themselves, did i did something wrong to get deducted? did i work really enough for the employer..or i'm taking advantage on them?
employer has their own question too....is squeezing employee every bit really beneficial for me? should the employment relationship should limited to $$ only?
employment act is there to protect the employee, in another view, is to provide a guideline to employer as well, the minimal you should do, to ensure an employment not going into haywire...
e.g. i believe some employer did encountered sabotage, did you ever question back, what u did that pushed tat employee to that extent? can it be actually been avoided if both of you did worked right for mutual benefit?
our labour law isn't jz protect <1.5k group, it isn't jz 1 line...but law is still law...if u choose not to obey it, law is not exists...
at the end, if it is an unhappy relationship, its ur choice, to mend, or to break
This is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth:employer pay to acquire service from employee...
employee deliver service to get paid...
do good for each other, then things work out good....
make it look bad then...all hell went loose...
1 thing employee need to ask themselves, did i did something wrong to get deducted? did i work really enough for the employer..or i'm taking advantage on them?
employer has their own question too....is squeezing employee every bit really beneficial for me? should the employment relationship should limited to $$ only?
employment act is there to protect the employee, in another view, is to provide a guideline to employer as well, the minimal you should do, to ensure an employment not going into haywire...
e.g. i believe some employer did encountered sabotage, did you ever question back, what u did that pushed tat employee to that extent? can it be actually been avoided if both of you did worked right for mutual benefit?
our labour law isn't jz protect <1.5k group, it isn't jz 1 line...but law is still law...if u choose not to obey it, law is not exists...
at the end, if it is an unhappy relationship, its ur choice, to mend, or to break
somebody jz need to understand...an employment is a mutual relation
employment act is there to protect the employee, in another view, is to provide a guideline to employer as well, the minimal you should do, to ensure an employment not going into haywire...
e.g. i believe some employer did encountered sabotage, did you ever question back, what u did that pushed tat employee to that extent? can it be actually been avoided if both of you did worked right for mutual benefit?
our labour law isn't jz protect <1.5k group, it isn't jz 1 line...but law is still law...if u choose not to obey it, law is not exists...
The employment law does only protect ppl who earn <1.5K,this is a fact. To protect unskilled labourers (possibly whom have very little education or none) for being exploited by their employers.
Ppl who earn >1.5K, whom are suppose to be "educated"/skilled/white collar are suppose to negotiate or at least know how to read their contract or have the knowledge to their the difference between what is good bad right and wrong seems to be the ppl who need more protection?
You seem to contradict yourself.
And YES the law only protects ppl who earn <1.5K, if u earn >1.5K take it up with the labour dept/courts.
This post has been edited by aurora97: Dec 5 2009, 07:21 PM
Dec 5 2009, 07:16 PM

Quote
0.0181sec
0.71
6 queries
GZIP Disabled