under present rules, having the required points does NOT automatically confer you the visa, but generally, as long as there are 'vacancies' (ie mandated quota not exceeded), and your application gets into the processing queue, you will get the visa...

you are correct to say that the revised rules will accept the eoi, but one may not get into the processing.....the other change is that there is no more separation of applicants from on and off shore....all will be grouped together.....thus the advantage of onshore applicants getting processing priority is removed.....how they will prioritise the whole bunch of applicants is unclear....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Apr 13 2012, 03:33 PM

if workload and overworking is a cause of these problems, half the junior doctors would have gone mad and/or committed suicide in the old days before the explosion of housemans the last 5 years.....

working 120 hrs a week was not uncommon in my time....i should be stark raving mad/depressed by now......

the real answer is, look at WHO these junior doctors are nowadays.....

i can assure you bosses are NEVER abusive to junior doctors who are competent and hardworking....after all, they are the ones who basically run the service....consultants LOVE them.....really....they can leave early for their golf without fear people will start dying....

bosses and consultants get very frustrated with poorly trained, incompetent and sometimes lazy young doctors....these are ones that will get scoldings and sometimes verbal abuses....

try to understand what is happening.....this is real life, a service is been provided, and people's lives are involved.....housemans need to be able to hit the ground running, so to speak....and start functioning once the initial adjustment period is over.....and very quickly learn....

this is NOT the place to teach basic things.....these are presumed knowledge all house officers are expected to have....this is NOT another medical school....

the reality is, many medical schools abdicate their duties, and graduate very poorly trained doctors...very poor in basic knowledge, with poor experience in basic practices like history taking.....

these doctors are NON functional.....BUT the job still needs to be done...that's where the good housemans come in....they have to cover for the bad ones, re-clerk the cases, undo whatever wrong that has been done....

because of the poor foundation, and often because they are mediocre students to begin with, they learn poorly and slowly.....and at the end of the 4 months rotation, they may still be non-functional.....

put yourself in the shoes of the boss....what will you do?...you have hoards of non-stop patients coming, you have to provide service, you have to make sure no grave mistake and harm is done....what will you do.....?

it is truly amazing that parents of adults already in the mid 20's have to interfere in the work of their children....

and a lesson to parents who push their children into the profession, against their will, and against their ability.....

generations of doctors have gone through the system, worked harder, longer hours, and i have NEVER known any parent to come and complain their precious offspring is bullied and working too hard.....till the last 5 years or so.....corresponding to an explosion of new doctors, coming off an explosion of medical programmes based on money instead of academic ability.....

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=...0145&sec=nation



This post has been edited by limeuu: Apr 15 2012, 02:41 PM

you are mistaken.....it's usually nurses (some are very senior ones) who 'bully' the houseman.....

the problem is.....the job places certain demands on all junior doctors.....but some doctors (and their parents) see that is overwork and bullying.....working 16 hours is nothing......before the shift system, the standard is 30 hour stretches.....

this requirement for long hours, sleep deprivation, and high stress environment is the same which ever country you work....and let me assure you, if you are found incompetent, your punishment can be more severe in countries like uk/oz.....there can be no 'sweeping under the carpet' there, unlike is common in msia....

if you cannot handle that, DON'T DO MEDICINE.....those already in, if all this is spooking you, it is not too late to quit......

as for humiliation, if one is shown to have poor knowledge and poor competency, be expected to be told off....this is not a summer camp.....if one shows competency and knowledge and hard work, i can assure you there will be no humiliation, but the down side is, you will be asked to work harder to 'cover' for the non-functioning ones.....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Apr 15 2012, 02:55 PM

the gmc guidelines are meant for medical practice in the uk nhs system, and the challenges they face is very different from the msian scenario currently....

it would be naive to think the gmc guidelines will be able to deal with the current problem facing msia....they do NOT face mass influx of junior doctors who are unable to function.....

there has always been a few who have problems, even in the past.....

there is no statistics now, but a few years ago, the moh quoted a figure of 15% or so who were having problems.....whether this figure has gone up, nobody knows, but anecdotal accounts from consultants supervising them gave figures like a quarter to a third fresh housemans have problems fitting into the system.....the consultants were told to 'retrain' them.....ie, do what medical schools should have done in the first place....

they can't get a proper history, can't make sensible working diagnosis, have no experience in simple procedures, display very poor basic medical knowledge, etc....

michelle au described a typical medical student environment in the us....where students are exposed to a fair bit of hands on work.....in some countries, they graduate with very little clinical experience.....everything is theoretical.....

these websites allows medical students and junior doctors to share their experiences......

but i just wonder, how really useful they are to potential medical students...

it's like watching a movie like the titanic, or battleship....all in the comfort of home, or a cosy cinema...the experience is virtual....

nothing beats reality....like following a real houseman on a night duty, and NOT sleep for a night, and then continuing work as normal the next day.....

there isn't such a job as a phlebotomist in msia, so that is done either by the lab technician, nurse, or doctors, mostly junior ones....

the issue of which fits better into the msian healthcare environment has long been debated....even from the days when the ipta were world class, and um mbbs was recognised by gmc....

my own conclusion is that local grads fit seamlessly into the msian health system, for obvious reasons, and those who graduate from elsewhere taking some time to adjust....both to the system, and the spectrum of disease....

the issue was never competency....all are considered competent....

the issue now, however, is different....while all non-msian grads still will need some adaptation, a whole new set of problems of inadequate training, inadequate knowledge, inadequate robustness, and yes, inadequate intellect, confronts the healthcare delivery system....

---

Added on April 18, 2012, 10:47 pmand i should add, drawing blood, or the inability to or otherwise, is NOT by any means, a measure of the competence of the doctor....

if one thinks that what competency is, then one is very ignorant about what a doctor's actual responsibilities are.....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Apr 18 2012, 10:47 PM

1. the majority of people in the western world see the doctor as a good friend who helps them, and are happy to help with training of future doctors......it is stupid to view them as god.....

2. you have been living in msia too long, and thinks everybody elsewhere are as racist as msian....

the problem is, we have gotten so used to institutionalised racism in msia, we think it's the same everywhere else...and think the worst of others...

most countries have moved on from the evils of any form of discrimination, and have strict laws against any form of racism.....in fact, some countries prohibit potential employers from asking about one's ethnicity (and gender preference, religion, political affiliation etc)....

race is only important in countries which treats their citizens differently based on ethnicity...not many countries left in the world.....

time flies....it's already 5 years.....

have they changed the name from housemanship to internship/residency?

might as well just recognise everybody and every uni...that will 'make sure they pass'......

but seriously....with so many (>300) recognised med schools.....and so many ipts med schools within msia itself....why would anyone need to attend an unrecognised one?...

and with the impending surplus of doctors within the next 3-4 years, why is it necessary to even have a qualification exam for these unrecognised doctors?....

This post has been edited by limeuu: May 1 2012, 11:18 PM

my questions are supposed to be rhetorical.....

quite a few well known, and well regarded and established med schools are 'small'.....

utas takes only 120 students...

even cambridge takes only 200....of which only 100 stays on for clinicals.....

size does not really indicate quality....

i am not sure what that writer was referring to, when he says 'small'.....but if it is the number of students they train, then i agree there are lots of good small med schools.....

in med schools with proper and careful selection of students, the drop out and failure rate is very low.....

only in unis with lax selection, and yet has to be strict in assessment due to strict requirements, are there high fail rates....

classical example is imu....

irish med schools have a long 'tradition' of being a medical degree mill....if you calculate the number of med schools against the population, you will note they are near msia level....

americans who failed to enter us med schools have for many years, been making a bee line to ireland med schools, and then after graduating and passing usmle step 2, gone back to us to work.....

it is very common for people to confuse between ireland and the uk....

the uk is made up of england, scotland and wales (collectively known as great britain) and northern ireland.....it is part of eu, but outside the eurozone....

the rest of the irish island is the republic of ireland, a separate country completely, with dublin as the capital....it is part of the eu, and within eurozone (ie uses euro as currency).....

that statement above, best not to say in front of an irishman.....

it is relatively easy to enter irish med schools, and they have so MANY joint programmes...msia alone has 4.....

they have 5 med schools for a population of less than 4 million....compare this with msia (35 schools for 30 million) and uk (32 schools for 62 million) and usa (134 schools for 310 million)......the figures speak for themselves...

it is also a small country, and few foreign students want to stay back after graduating due to lack of work opportunities....perfect conditions for a degree mill....google, and you will find lots of forums on americans trying to get into irish med schools....

This post has been edited by limeuu: May 17 2012, 12:48 PM