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 Ps3 Slim can now Bitstream

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aiman04
post Sep 26 2009, 01:56 PM

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HDMI

PCM Mode:

Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> PS3/BDP [DECODER**] --->  Multich PCM ---> AVR [DAC-AMP] ---> Speakers (Lossless)

Bitstream mode:

Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> PS3 Fat ---> Dolby Digital/DTS/PCM 2.0 ---> AVR [DECODER**-DAC-AMP] ---> Speakers (Lossy)

Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> PS3 Slim/BDP* ---> Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> AVR [DECODER**-DAC-AMP] ---> Speakers (Lossless)


OPTICAL/COAXIAL

PCM Mode:

Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> PS3/BDP [DECODER**] ---> PCM 2.0 ---> AVR [DAC-AMP] ---> Speakers (Lossy)

Bitstream Mode:

Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> PS3/BDP ---> Dolby Digital/DTS/PCM 2.0 ---> AVR [DECODER**-DAC-AMP] ---> Speakers (Lossy)


MULTI-CHANNEL ANALOGUE OUTS

Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> BDP [DECODER**-DAC] ---> Multich Analogue ---> AVR [AMP] ---> Speakers (Lossless)

*Secondary audio turned-off
**Except PCM 2.0/Multich PCM

This post has been edited by aiman04: Sep 26 2009, 05:37 PM
van_dyke
post Sep 26 2009, 05:04 PM

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QUOTE(aiman04 @ Sep 26 2009, 01:56 PM)
HDMI

PCM Mode:

Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> PS3/BDP [DECODER**] --->  Multich PCM ---> AVR [DAC-AMP] ---> Speakers (Lossless)

Bitstream mode:

Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> PS3 Fat---> Dolby Digital/DTS/PCM 2.0 ---> AVR [DECODER**-DAC-AMP] ---> Speakers (Lossy)

Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> PS3 Slim/BDP* ---> Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> AVR [DECODER**-DAC-AMP] ---> Speakers (Lossless)

OPTICAL/COAXIAL

PCM Mode:

Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> PS3/BDP [DECODER**] ---> PCM 2.0 ---> AVR [DAC-AMP] ---> Speakers (Lossy)

Bitstream Mode:

Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD MA/Multich PCM ---> PS3/BDP ---> Dolby Digital/DTS/PCM 2.0 ---> AVR [DECODER**-DAC-AMP] ---> Speakers (Lossy)

*Secondary audio turned-off
**Except PCM 2.0/Multich PCM

My original post had colors and different font sizes which is easier to understand. Too lazy, using my iPhone, and can't quote cause the thread already closed. Hope that helps.
*
Champion...
so, even if my avr can't support trueHD but i'm using a hdmi in, and it comes in as pcm, its still lossless?
will it have the 5.1 surround sound? or only 2 speakers?
Sorry for asking a plain noob questions.

Cheers!
aiman04
post Sep 26 2009, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(van_dyke @ Sep 26 2009, 05:04 PM)
Champion...
so, even if my avr can't support trueHD but i'm using a hdmi in, and it comes in as pcm, its still lossless?
will it have the 5.1 surround sound? or only 2 speakers?
Sorry for asking a plain noob questions.

Cheers!
*
blush.gif

Yes, you'll get lossless, and all the channels available from the BD. If the movie is 7.1 while your setup is 5.1, the AVR will downmix the 2 surround-back channel to the surround-rears.

PCM: The player does the decoding.
Bitstream: The player sends the audio as is, and let the AVR do the decoding.

Keep in mind lossless only via HDMI. Unless the player has multi-channel outs.
ar188
post Sep 26 2009, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(aiman04 @ Sep 26 2009, 05:17 PM)


Keep in mind lossless only via HDMI. Unless the player has multi-channel outs.
*
that wouldn't be called lossless anymore.. cos it's lossly analog.. biggrin.gif
aiman04
post Sep 26 2009, 05:36 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Sep 26 2009, 05:20 PM)
that wouldn't be called lossless anymore.. cos it's lossly analog..  biggrin.gif
*
The signal to be carried is lossless. What happens during the journey I can't guarantee. laugh.gif

Well, for analogue connection good quality cables are essentials. They can be costly, especially when you need 6 to 8 cables! sweat.gif

My advise, just get a new HDMI AVR. tongue.gif
ar188
post Sep 26 2009, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(aiman04 @ Sep 26 2009, 05:36 PM)

My advise, just get a new HDMI AVR. tongue.gif
*
yeah.. elite wallet solution.. biggrin.gif
aiman04
post Sep 26 2009, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Sep 26 2009, 05:43 PM)
yeah.. elite wallet solution..  biggrin.gif
*
Elite wallet only, inside only got 3 bucks for roti canai & teh tarik. sweat.gif
van_dyke
post Sep 26 2009, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(aiman04 @ Sep 26 2009, 05:17 PM)
blush.gif

Yes, you'll get lossless, and all the channels available from the BD. If the movie is 7.1 while your setup is 5.1, the AVR will downmix the 2 surround-back channel to the surround-rears.

PCM: The player does the decoding.
Bitstream: The player sends the audio as is, and let the AVR do the decoding.

Keep in mind lossless only via HDMI. Unless the player has multi-channel outs.
*

1 more noob question, if pass pcm, i can see on my AVR its PCM. if pass bitstream? what would i see?
smile.gif also if pcm is player decoding, what does the AVR do?
this is interesting...
aiman04
post Sep 26 2009, 07:21 PM

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QUOTE(van_dyke @ Sep 26 2009, 07:11 PM)
1 more noob question, if pass pcm, i can see on my AVR its PCM. if pass bitstream? what would i see?
smile.gif also if pcm is player decoding, what does the AVR do?
this is interesting...
*
Since your AVR can't decode the HD codecs, when you bitstream them the AVR will only decode the embedded core tracks inside the main HD track.

Let's say you're playing a Dolby TrueHD movie, if you bitstream the AVR will show "Dolby Digital". If it's DTS-HD Master Audio, it will show "DTS". These are lossy tracks because your AVR can't decode the main lossless track.

If the player does the decoding, the AVR will convert the PCM to analogue using the DAC and then amplify it to power your speakers. Can refer to the flow chart above about where each process is done.

This post has been edited by aiman04: Sep 26 2009, 07:24 PM
ar188
post Sep 26 2009, 07:24 PM

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QUOTE(aiman04 @ Sep 26 2009, 07:21 PM)
Since your AVR can't decode the HD codecs, when you bitstream them the AVR will only decode the embedded core tracks inside the main HD track.

Let's say you're playing a Dolby TrueHD movie, if you bitstream the AVR will show "Dolby Digital". If it's DTS-HD Master Audio, it will show "DTS". These are lossy tracks because your AVR can't decode the main lossless track.
*
I tot only DTs-HD will have this core DTS track?

trueHD and DD are separates..
aiman04
post Sep 26 2009, 11:04 PM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Sep 26 2009, 07:24 PM)
I tot only DTs-HD will have this core DTS track?

trueHD and DD are separates..
*
Yes, Dolby also has it. But unlike DTS, it is not compulsory. Some titles (probably newer ones) might not have it.

Tested this myself when I was using still the PS3 as a BD player. Can't remember which titles, but until now I never found any that didn't have it. Maybe because I never bothered to check anymore especially since I have a standalone BDP.

However, the Dolby Digital in the Dolby TrueHD track is called "substream", not "core" like DTS. It's a whole different track attached to the main lossless track. While the DTS core is part of the DTS-HD MA, reconstructed from the main lossless track.

I guess the discs that has a separate Dolby Digital track won't have it attached to Dolby TrueHD. In this case, if van_dyke tries to bitstream it, the AVR will show "no signal" and there should be no sound.

This post has been edited by aiman04: Sep 26 2009, 11:20 PM
aiman04
post Sep 26 2009, 11:43 PM

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Here's a disc spec for the upcoming release of Contact BD:

QUOTE
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Audio:
Dolby TrueHD Audio English 1457 kbps 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1457 kbps / 16-bit (AC3 Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps)
Music Track only: Dolby Digital Audio English 640 kbps 5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps
DUBs: Dolby Digital Audio French 640 kbps 5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio German 640 kbps 5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio Italian 640 kbps 5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio Japanese 640 kbps 5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio Spanish 640 kbps 5.1 / 48 kHz / 640 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio Portuguese 192 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / Dolby Surround
Commentaries: Dolby Digital Audio English 192 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / Dolby Surround
Dolby Digital Audio English 192 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / Dolby Surround
Dolby Digital Audio English 192 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / Dolby Surround

Subtitles:
English, Danish, Dutch, Finnish, French, German, Italian, Japanese, Norwegian, Portuguese, Spanish, Swedish, none


http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews4...act_blu-ray.htm

Notice the Dolby TrueHD track. He used the term "core", but doesn't matter, it proves that the core/substream track of Dolby Digital (AC3) is available with the Dolby TrueHD.

Anyway, Contact is one of my favorite sci-fi drama. Even though a drama, the DVD is recommended by SVS to show off your subwoofer. Those who've seen this movie knows what I mean. Imagine that with lossless audio! drool.gif
van_dyke
post Sep 26 2009, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(aiman04 @ Sep 26 2009, 11:43 PM)
Here's a disc spec for the upcoming release of Contact BD:
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews4...act_blu-ray.htm

Notice the Dolby TrueHD track. He used the term "core", but doesn't matter, it proves that the core/substream track of Dolby Digital (AC3) is available with the Dolby TrueHD.

Anyway, Contact is one of my favorite sci-fi drama. Even though a drama, the DVD is recommended by SVS to show off your subwoofer. Those who've seen this movie knows what I mean. Imagine that with lossless audio! drool.gif
*
Thanks for taking time to explain in such details... true champion!
aiman04
post Sep 27 2009, 12:04 AM

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QUOTE(van_dyke @ Sep 26 2009, 11:59 PM)
Thanks for taking time to explain in such details... true champion!
*
No problem bro. smile.gif

Champion eh? Makes me feel like a boxing champ. blush.gif tongue.gif
chengkl8
post Sep 27 2009, 04:05 PM

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Stupid question, because I'm noob for Audio, Just bought a New PS3 Slim, 1 to know what is Bitstream mean? When I setting to Bitstream - will maybe some sound will lost from Original, so y still need it?

Please advice, TQ
moomoos
post Sep 28 2009, 01:48 PM

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so basically whats the BIG difference on lossless and lossy...
hmm.gif another sn00b question smile.gif

Maniac
post Sep 28 2009, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(chengkl8 @ Sep 27 2009, 04:05 PM)
Stupid question, because I'm noob for Audio, Just bought a New PS3 Slim, 1 to know what is Bitstream mean? When I setting to Bitstream - will maybe some sound will lost from Original, so y still need it?

Please advice, TQ
*
bitstream = ur PS3 send the original RAW signal to decoder.
PCM = PS3 read and decode then translate the signal before send to amp/speakers.


Bitstream has the advantage of single cable, less chances of signal lost due to multiple cables and etc. The downside is, not all AVR currently on market decodes the full potential of the signal yet.

QUOTE(moomoos @ Sep 28 2009, 01:48 PM)
so basically whats the BIG difference on lossless and lossy...
hmm.gif another sn00b question smile.gif
*
if ones are asking this, chances are they made no differ to you.
basically its like MP3 compare with FLAC, both also compress audio.
moomoos
post Sep 28 2009, 05:40 PM

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QUOTE(Maniac @ Sep 28 2009, 04:22 PM)
if ones are asking this, chances are they made no differ to you.
basically its like MP3 compare with FLAC, both also compress audio.
*
kalau ini macam alot of difference le

layman terms MP3@320kps AQ will lose to FLAC right

MP3 is just compress music but FLAC is very close to original w/o loosing AQ right
Poadster
post Sep 28 2009, 07:06 PM

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QUOTE(aiman04 @ Sep 27 2009, 12:04 AM)
No problem bro. smile.gif

Champion eh? Makes me feel like a boxing champ. blush.gif  tongue.gif
*
Now he will be officially crowned Prof Tun Aiman04.... notworthy.gif notworthy.gif notworthy.gif

Added on September 28, 2009, 7:10 pm
QUOTE(moomoos @ Sep 28 2009, 05:40 PM)
kalau ini macam alot of difference le

layman terms MP3@320kps AQ will lose to FLAC right

MP3 is just compress music but FLAC is very close to original w/o loosing AQ right
*
Yes.... that sounds right (pun intended)... tongue.gif

DTS (lossy) outputs at 1500kbps ++, DTS-MA outputs at 5000kbps (can remember exactly how much, will check tonite, sifus can verify here??), go figure which has more sound detail, positioning and resolution....


This post has been edited by Poadster: Sep 28 2009, 07:10 PM
moomoos
post Sep 28 2009, 07:31 PM

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QUOTE(moomoos @ Sep 28 2009, 01:48 PM)
so basically whats the BIG difference on lossless and lossy...
hmm.gif another sn00b question smile.gif
*
basically.. the above is my question biggrin.gif
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