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Spanish Clubs Futbol Club De Barcelona ~ Palau Blaugrana, OFFICIAL : Mascherano is Cule

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ELm_ELm
post Mar 1 2010, 06:14 PM

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2 points margin, its never this tight b4 smile.gif


Added on March 2, 2010, 10:31 pm

found this from the other forum, damn funny.. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by ELm_ELm: Mar 2 2010, 10:31 PM
sepulse
post Mar 3 2010, 12:54 AM

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QUOTE(ELm_ELm @ Mar 1 2010, 06:14 PM)
2 points margin, its never this tight b4  smile.gif

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


lol at messi! laugh.gif
matyrze
post Mar 3 2010, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(silverwavec @ Feb 27 2010, 09:48 PM)
He loss to many ball possessions. He made wrong pass. His defense was bad. The last 3 matches shown that he's not the same Xavi we knew.
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I'm curious. Defending is definitely not his best attribute even when in highest form. Can't expect him to do much, when in fact the whole team has been off colour too. Even Messi. We just have to wait Alves regain his top fitness, only then we will see our play widen up, creating more spaces for Xavi/Iniesta to thread through balls between defences. I dare say that Alves' absence has been the reason why Xavi couldn't perform in several recent games.
matyrze
post Mar 4 2010, 03:21 PM

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QUOTE
Most successful keeper in Europe not called up

Catalan news site Sport recently published several articles about FC Barcelona goalkeeper Víctor Valdés (28), examining why he will not be called up by Spanish national team coach Vicente del Bosque for the World Cup in Africa.

This is despite the fact that, according to a study published by Prime Time Sport, Valdes is indisputably one of the best goalkeepers in the big European leagues, based on his statistics. When compared with the other goalkeepers across Europe, the numbers show that Víctor Valdés is second only to the keeper for Benfica, Quim; unlike Valdés, however, Quim has not played all of the games for his team.

And while it might be argued by some that Valdés should not replace Iker Casillas, despite his better record, the same cannot be said for del Bosque’s other two choices, Pepe Reina and Diego López. It is a fact that Valdés has won the Zamora Trophy twice and leads the Spanish league currently with a goals-against coefficent of .58.  The coefficient for López is 1.54.  In the Premiership, Pepe Reina ranks fifth in that league, behind Brad Friedel (Aston Villa/USA), Heurelho Gomes (Tottenham/Brazil), Van der Sar (Manchester United/Holland) and Petr Cech (Chelsea/Czech Republic).

Valdés is the only goalkeeper who leads his league with the best statistics, yet has not been capped by his country. In Paris for the World Cup warm-up game of Spain vs. France, Vicente del Bosque commented on this strange situation:

    (Valdés) is having an excellent season.  He’s doing a fine job and we appreciate it greatly. This does not hide that I can understand the frustration that he feels about not being called up.  In the case of Valdés, it is due exclusively to the fact that a great competition exists for the position of goalkeeper.  That is my only excuse. All of the lists are contestable, and, unfortunately, someone remains outside and it might be that we are not correct.  From some parts of Spain they always want those from their land to come (to the national team).

Spain’s number one goalkeeper, Iker Casillas, also commented on the situation of Víctor Valdés, saying,

    In this moment there are so many and such good goalkeepers that this position could be covered by any of them.  Right now it is Pepe, Diego, and I, and it is a great pleasure and honor.  We understand Víctor Valdés, as well as César, Palop, Asenjo, De Gea, who could also be here.  With this competition,  we Spaniards win, because there is more competitiveness in the goalkeeper position.

source: sport.es
translated: totalbarca


What do you guys think about this issue?

I never hide my support for Valdes. I still remember saying here repeatedly that he is the GK that Barca needs. Not Cech, Buffon, Casillas, Frey or any other names. I am glad he has shown what a GK he is, although some cules still say that Valdes is lucky of having a strong defensive line covering him. They just forget how he saved us more than just a few games. His saves against Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd, all in big UCL matches are match changing saves. Or all those one on one saves when we were exposed to counterattacks, especially when Puyol didn't play. FOr the time being, its hard to imagine Barca's GK other than Valdes. I think he has done enough to at least being at the WC.

And I think it is outrageous when Casillas mentioned Valdes in the same bracket as Asenjo and Cesar, or even De Gea. Fair enough if Valdes is not the first choice GK, as that would mean the removal of the NT captain aka Casillas himself. But what have D.Lopez and Pepe done that suggest they performed better than Valdes?
ELm_ELm
post Mar 4 2010, 03:51 PM

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QUOTE(matyrze @ Mar 4 2010, 03:21 PM)
What do you guys think about this issue?

I never hide my support for Valdes. I still remember saying here repeatedly that he is the GK that Barca needs. Not Cech, Buffon, Casillas, Frey or any other names. I am glad he has shown what a GK he is, although some cules still say that Valdes is lucky of having a strong defensive line covering him. They just forget how he saved us more than just a few games. His saves against Arsenal, Chelsea and Man Utd, all in big UCL matches are match changing saves. Or all those one on one saves when we were exposed to counterattacks, especially when Puyol didn't play. FOr the time being, its hard to imagine Barca's GK other than Valdes. I think he has done enough to at least being at the WC.

And I think it is outrageous when Casillas mentioned Valdes in the same bracket as Asenjo and Cesar, or even De Gea. Fair enough if Valdes is not the first choice GK, as that would mean the removal of the NT captain aka Casillas himself. But what have D.Lopez and Pepe done that suggest they performed better than Valdes?
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im with u on this one, valdes arguably one of the most underrated goalkeeper in spain history,, i think cassilas is still spain no 1, because so far he haven't show any sign of slip up yet but to think that valdes is not part of spain world cup squad, that is ridiculous ...to be honest i think valdes technically better than reina,..barca playing open football, meaning that we playing further upfront which sometimes leaves our defense open..i dunno , i seem to lost count already how many times he managed to denied striker chance to score in 1 on 1 situation..

well even if he did been called, he probably gonna sit on bench, but it going to b massive of exp just to b in the worldcup,..i really want to see him playing fr spain, hope del Bosque will included him as part of his plan... smile.gif
verx
post Mar 4 2010, 05:31 PM

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I won't say he's underrated. But he's definitely improved his game. He's managed to cut out alot of the blunders from his game which plagued the earlier parts of his career. I think it's probably why Del Bosque is still unwilling to pick him. That said Pepe Reina and Diego Lopez are equally as capable as 2nd choice. To say they don't deserve it ahead of Valdes is unfair to them imo. Not to mention Palop is a good GK as well.

And also statistics is never the best judge of players. Barca have like 60-70% possession every game that one can argue that most games Valdes doesn't have much to do compared to Diego Lopez for example.
frankiejay
post Mar 4 2010, 05:35 PM

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If you have watched liverpool playing a lot, I'm sure you'll agree that Pepe Reina gets nod ahead of Victor Valder. He saved liverpool's ass a lot, simply the best performer + most consistent of the team. Just ask eLm, besides shay given, reina is the best.
matyrze
post Mar 4 2010, 07:12 PM

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QUOTE(verx @ Mar 4 2010, 05:31 PM)
I won't say he's underrated. But he's definitely improved his game. He's managed to cut out alot of the blunders from his game which plagued the earlier parts of his career. I think it's probably why Del Bosque is still unwilling to pick him. That said Pepe Reina and Diego Lopez are equally as capable as 2nd choice. To say they don't deserve it ahead of Valdes is unfair to them imo. Not to mention Palop is a good GK as well.

And also statistics is never the best judge of players. Barca have like 60-70% possession every game that one can argue that most games Valdes doesn't have much to do compared to Diego Lopez for example.
*
In terms of ability, Pepe Reina and D. Lopez are good, yes. But can you say their abilities are better than VV's? I think VV has proven enough to the world that he has the ability as well as mentality to succeed for Spain. He has performed remarkably in big games for Barca.

Don't you think at least del Bosque should have called up Valdes to test him out just in the France friendly? Why the ongoing snub?

And again I can't understand why people keep on using the bolded part as the excuse. What about 30%-40% possession that Barca's opponents usually get? Did they do nothing with it? At least 4-5 dangerous fast counterattacks can be squizzed into this 30-40%.

As I said, Pepe and Lopez are good, But when a NT GK conceded 6 goals against a big team in a game not so long ago, usually he will be dropped from NT for at least a while, especially when there are other competition. Still, Lopez was still in the team against France.

IMHO, to evaluate a GK, its not about how many he get tested in matches, but its how he performed when he is called upon. If Cech comes to Barca would you ever say that his quality has dropped?

QUOTE(frankiejay @ Mar 4 2010, 05:35 PM)
If you have watched liverpool playing a lot, I'm sure you'll agree that Pepe Reina gets nod ahead of Victor Valder.  He saved liverpool's ass a lot, simply the best performer + most consistent of the team. Just ask  eLm, besides shay given, reina is the best.
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Well, he sounds like he prefers VV to be in the NT team too. He also mentioned that VV is technically better than Pepe. I rarely missed Liver's big games, even the Man City game. So I think I've watched enough of Pepe action. I admit he is good, but I think if Pepe gets his chance, VV should have his too.


Added on March 4, 2010, 7:17 pm
QUOTE(ELm_ELm @ Mar 4 2010, 03:51 PM)
well even if he did been called, he probably gonna sit on bench, but it going to b massive of exp just to b in the worldcup,..i really want to see him playing fr spain, hope del Bosque will included him as part of his plan... smile.gif
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As far as things go atm, that will not happen. That's sad. sad.gif IMO, if VV doesn't get into the team for the lastest friendly, his chance is very very slim. Same goes to Ronaldinho for Brazil. But we can continue hoping of course smile.gif

This post has been edited by matyrze: Mar 4 2010, 07:18 PM
frankiejay
post Mar 4 2010, 07:29 PM

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But if you look at VV's achievement with barca, he should at least be included in spain's squad. No doubt. Whether it's first or third choice.
TSfaris21
post Mar 4 2010, 08:13 PM

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Spain GK selection really complicated, San Iker still numero uno without any doubt, we have many talented GK, i rate Diego Lopez highly and bring him to South Africa if i`m Spain coach, as i said too many choice to choose, 2nd and 3rd GK could be Diego Lopez and Pepe, but we still have Asenjo and surprisingly De Gea pop-up from now where, not to mention couple year ago England press said Almunia could be England GK if he change his nation

let see what Del Bosque problem, he have five (Pepe, Diego, De Gea, Asenjo and Valdes) to fill two spot and that not easy task since all contestant really close in term of ability
matyrze
post Mar 4 2010, 08:55 PM

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Well, I don't rate De Gea for Seleccion just yet. He is just too young. Asenjo may have more realistic chance, but he has been struggling with his fitness this season. For me, the biggest challengers for the spots in WC are Pepe, Lopez, Valdes and Palop. Having won Zamora trophy twice, and well on course for a third one, VV should be heralded as one of the best in Spain. But so far, among these 4 GKs, he is the only one who doesn't get the nod yet. Isn't that strange?
verx
post Mar 4 2010, 08:55 PM

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QUOTE(matyrze @ Mar 4 2010, 07:12 PM)
In terms of ability, Pepe Reina and D. Lopez are good, yes. But can you say their abilities are better than VV's? I think VV has proven enough to the world that he has the ability as well as mentality to succeed for Spain. He has performed remarkably in big games for Barca.

Don't you think at least del Bosque should have called up Valdes to test him out just in the France friendly? Why the ongoing snub?
Then can you say for sure VV's abilities are better than both of them? VV has proven his ability, yes I agree. I have never said he wasn't good enough. But so has Pepe Reina.
The problem is why should Del Bosque change things up for the GK position when Spain obviously has an embarassment of riches for that position? Has any of the chosen 3 failed to perform for the NT in the 1st place?
It sucks for VV sure but you can't blame Del Bosque for that.

QUOTE
And again I can't understand why people keep on using the bolded part as the excuse. What about 30%-40% possession that Barca's opponents usually get? Did they do nothing with it? At least 4-5 dangerous fast counterattacks can be squizzed into this 30-40%.
It's not an excuse. It's a valid counter argument. And you're kidding yourself if you think a small team can squeeze 4-5 dangerous counterattacks with 30%-40% possession which I might add is spent mostly in their half. A better team might be able to do it of course but if the counter attacks are such a problem then why do Barca concede so little? And why do they keep playing the same way? Because it is effective. It's very different to play for a team that invites the other team to attack. Fact is Diego Lopez has to deal with more shots on his goal than VV.

QUOTE
As I said, Pepe and Lopez are good, But when a NT GK conceded 6 goals against a big team in a game not so long ago, usually he will be dropped from NT for at least a while, especially when there are other competition. Still, Lopez was still in the team against France.

IMHO, to evaluate a GK, its not about how many he get tested in matches, but its how he performed when he is called upon. If Cech comes to Barca would you ever say that his quality has dropped?

Well, he sounds like he prefers VV to be in the NT team too. He also mentioned that VV is technically better than Pepe. I rarely missed Liver's big games, even the Man City game. So I think I've watched enough of Pepe action. I admit he is good, but I think if Pepe gets his chance, VV should have his too.
*
Well it's not really Diego Lopez's fault that he conceded those goals if the defence doesn't really protect him. But I get where you're coming from.
Thing is if Spain had a problem with the GK position then it would necessitate a change. But since there is no problem why the need to change it up?
I just wonder what Capello would give just for Diego Lopez to be an Englishman instead. It just shows the amount of depth Spain has.
matyrze
post Mar 4 2010, 09:16 PM

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QUOTE(verx @ Mar 4 2010, 08:55 PM)
Then can you say for sure VV's abilities are better than both of them? VV has proven his ability, yes I agree. I have never said he wasn't good enough. But so has Pepe Reina.


I didn't say VV's ability is superior to Pepe and Lopez. I think they are quite similar. Which trigger the question: why Pepe and Lopez continue to get chances, while VV don't? When form is to be counted, VV's situation become more weird.

QUOTE
The problem is why should Del Bosque change things up for the GK position when Spain obviously has an embarassment of riches for that position? Has any of the chosen 3 failed to perform for the NT in the 1st place?


So VV will get his chance when Lopez fumbled the ball into the net in a decisive WC match? Everybody should have equal chance to play in NT, regardless of whether he has or has not been called up yet. Del Bosque so far refuse to give VV his chance.

QUOTE
It's not an excuse. It's a valid counter argument. And you're kidding yourself if you think a small team can squeeze 4-5 dangerous counterattacks with 30%-40% possession which I might add is spent mostly in their half.


I'm not kidding myself. This is what has happened. Even Xerez did that. Most of this occurred during away grounds, which most have smaller pitch than Camp Nou. Plus the fact that Barca's defenders are slow, apart from Puyol and Toure. Usually, it was Valdes who dealt with fast breaks, alone. Elm_Elm already mentioned that its not easy to count how many counterattacks VV has saved. Because there are a lot of them.

You may have read reports from Madrid's media that Barca seems weaker than last season. I believe this is the reason. Barca is very susceptible to counterattacks.

QUOTE
Thing is if Spain had a problem with the GK position then it would necessitate a change. But since there is no problem why the need to change it up?


Well, if del Bosque decides to change Lopez with VV, it wouldn't give much effect to the set up, as Lopez himself has only collected 1 cap. He is not much better than VV in terms of experience.
ELm_ELm
post Mar 5 2010, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(verx @ Mar 4 2010, 05:31 PM)
I won't say he's underrated. But he's definitely improved his game. He's managed to cut out alot of the blunders from his game which plagued the earlier parts of his career. I think it's probably why Del Bosque is still unwilling to pick him. That said Pepe Reina and Diego Lopez are equally as capable as 2nd choice. To say they don't deserve it ahead of Valdes is unfair to them imo. Not to mention Palop is a good GK as well.

And also statistics is never the best judge of players. Barca have like 60-70% possession every game that one can argue that most games Valdes doesn't have much to do compared to Diego Lopez for example.
*
but the fact is, he is underrated in spain n that is something that we cant argue about, till he been given his chance to prove him self as one of spain best the doubt will always remain with him..

QUOTE
Del Bosque is still unwilling to pick him. That said Pepe Reina and Diego Lopez are equally as capable as 2nd choice,To say they don't deserve it ahead of Valdes is unfair to them

i watched reina play for liverpool, yes, he did made mistakes n great saves as well,, as for diego i dint watch much of his game, but critics does rate him good i guess most of us agree with that but how on earth he managed to b third choice?,,just by playing good? even palop n valdes r doing good..the point is, he haven't show anything yet in big stages compare to his other competitors which right now is valdes...

but to be in the spain national team, what should u do to be in that position, do u need to let people say u good or u prove it by winning trophies ?..experience does matter here something that pepe and reina r lack at the moment,. valdes proved him self at every position he could do, he has more big games in his career n so far he did well with all those trophies coming ...u cant just pick keeper just because u think he is better than the other, u pick them because base on the statistic that prove that he is excellent..

QUOTE
Barca have like 60-70% possession every game that one can argue that most games Valdes doesn't have much to do compared to Diego Lopez

this is how barca play, dominate possession, even madrid does that, in fact that's how big team does..u cannot possibly bring this argument, especially the stats proved that he best at making save as well..


Added on March 5, 2010, 5:46 pm
QUOTE(matyrze @ Mar 4 2010, 08:55 PM)
Well, I don't rate De Gea for Seleccion just yet. He is just too young. Asenjo may have more realistic chance, but he has been struggling with his fitness this season. For me, the biggest challengers for the spots in WC are Pepe, Lopez, Valdes and Palop. Having won Zamora trophy twice, and well on course for a third one, VV should be heralded as one of the best in Spain. But so far, among these 4 GKs, he is the only one who doesn't get the nod yet. Isn't that strange?
*
when i come to think of this, mayb because nobody expect valdes to play untill now, when he 1st made his debut, some say he just temporary gk for us, give him 2 years he surely leave..but he managed to reclaim his spot until today, guess some media in spain doesn't like to be proven wrong..

This post has been edited by ELm_ELm: Mar 5 2010, 07:23 PM
matyrze
post Mar 5 2010, 10:00 PM

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QUOTE(ELm_ELm @ Mar 5 2010, 05:45 PM)
i watched reina play for liverpool, yes, he did made mistakes n great saves as well,, as for diego i dint watch much of his game, but critics does rate him good i guess most of us agree with that but how on earth he managed to b third choice?,,just by playing good? even palop n valdes r doing good..the point is, he haven't show anything yet  in big stages compare to his other competitors which right now is valdes...
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Good point there.

Why does he get such 'immunity' from Del Bosque? What is Lopez's role in the NT team that VV can't do? It surely is not a big role, since he has only got 1 cap so far. I think if Del Bosque called VV up for France friendly and tested him, a considerably large section of his critics would shut up.

Probably he doesn't want people to accuse him of favouring Barca players again? IINM, he has received such accusation in the past. Last year I think hmm.gif hmm.gif
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post Mar 5 2010, 10:16 PM

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QUOTE(matyrze @ Mar 5 2010, 10:00 PM)
Good point there.

Why does he get such 'immunity' from Del Bosque? What is Lopez's role in the NT team that VV can't do? It surely is not a big role, since he has only got 1 cap so far. I think if Del Bosque called VV up for France friendly and tested him, a considerably large section of his critics would shut up.

Probably he doesn't want people to accuse him of favouring Barca players again? IINM, he has received such accusation in the past. Last year I think hmm.gif  hmm.gif
*
Aragones didn't pick VV as well so I don't see why Del Bosque is being targeted here. Just a question though: would VV be satisfied at being 3rd choice GK. Given that it's a position that hardly changes personnel especially during a short tournament like the WC he probably wouldn't get to play at all. And I'm not sure he'll feel proud to be selected for the NT anyway given that he's a cule through and through.
matyrze
post Mar 5 2010, 11:13 PM

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EURO 2008 was at the end of 07/08 season, the season in which Barca's form as a team was erratic in the final stages of that season. VV kept leaking goals at that time. There was absolutely no reason to pick him for NT.

But now it is a different story. Now he has completed 1 legendary season with Barca, and at times almost single-handedly saved Barca points in current season. He has improved a lot. Now he has a good shout to command a place in NT squad.

You have a point there about him being a Catalan, he will hardly feel proud by representing Spain. But every players dream of playing in WC. Surely VV has such dream doesn't he? Xavi mentioned once that the only reason he plays for Spain is because that is the only way he can taste international football. He is 'forced' to play, but nobody can question his (or other Catalans in the NT) motivation for Spain's cause.

Plus in such short tournament, surely 1 of the back up GK will be called upon to rest Casillas, especially when the knockout place has been sealed. That lucky back-up may probably be VV, if he gets the call up of course.
sepulse
post Mar 7 2010, 05:09 AM

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nah another draw..messi was my MOTM..
im disappointed with ibra...
matyrze
post Mar 7 2010, 09:03 AM

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Hey guys, how was the match? People in the net are so fast sniping at Barca and Ibra. Comments that criticizes Ibra in Goal.com get 50++ approval just a few hours after that game doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif
TSfaris21
post Mar 7 2010, 11:12 AM

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now we equal with Madrid, so goal different make us a leader, that not good

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