I won't say he's underrated. But he's definitely improved his game. He's managed to cut out alot of the blunders from his game which plagued the earlier parts of his career. I think it's probably why Del Bosque is still unwilling to pick him. That said Pepe Reina and Diego Lopez are equally as capable as 2nd choice. To say they don't deserve it ahead of Valdes is unfair to them imo. Not to mention Palop is a good GK as well.

And also statistics is never the best judge of players. Barca have like 60-70% possession every game that one can argue that most games Valdes doesn't have much to do compared to Diego Lopez for example.

Then can you say for sure VV's abilities are better than both of them? VV has proven his ability, yes I agree. I have never said he wasn't good enough. But so has Pepe Reina.
The problem is why should Del Bosque change things up for the GK position when Spain obviously has an embarassment of riches for that position? Has any of the chosen 3 failed to perform for the NT in the 1st place?
It sucks for VV sure but you can't blame Del Bosque for that.

It's not an excuse. It's a valid counter argument. And you're kidding yourself if you think a small team can squeeze 4-5 dangerous counterattacks with 30%-40% possession which I might add is spent mostly in their half. A better team might be able to do it of course but if the counter attacks are such a problem then why do Barca concede so little? And why do they keep playing the same way? Because it is effective. It's very different to play for a team that invites the other team to attack. Fact is Diego Lopez has to deal with more shots on his goal than VV.

Well it's not really Diego Lopez's fault that he conceded those goals if the defence doesn't really protect him. But I get where you're coming from.
Thing is if Spain had a problem with the GK position then it would necessitate a change. But since there is no problem why the need to change it up?
I just wonder what Capello would give just for Diego Lopez to be an Englishman instead. It just shows the amount of depth Spain has.

Aragones didn't pick VV as well so I don't see why Del Bosque is being targeted here. Just a question though: would VV be satisfied at being 3rd choice GK. Given that it's a position that hardly changes personnel especially during a short tournament like the WC he probably wouldn't get to play at all. And I'm not sure he'll feel proud to be selected for the NT anyway given that he's a cule through and through.

Congrats on the win. The league title should be yours then

This is what I call selective memory.

2008 Madrid 4 - 1 Barca

And how much did we spend after that? Van der Vaart for a measly 13ME. Barca went and bought Alves for 40ME.

But what do I know? Football is round and anything can happen next season

It just means that how much u spend doesn't really directly correlate to what happens on the pitch. It helps obviously but there's more to football than that.
I thought I wouldn't have needed to explain this to you seeing as you've been watching football as long as I have. I mean after going through the Gaspart days I would have expected better from you. But as I said, selective memory.

lol I have already let ppl talk all they want. But that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to post my opinion when I see fit. I'm quite relaxed actually

I don't see the risk of team falling apart seeing as most of the players are still young. I think in the long term Barca have a bigger concern regarding that.
And tbh it's just the media talking about Kaka and all the other "problems". Marca has probably been our worse enemy this season. But as fans there's nothing much we can do about it.

One thing for sure is that even in our worst periods we try to be as competitive as we can. We'll be back don't worry

This post has been edited by verx: Apr 12 2010, 05:41 PM

Didn't spend too much? You think players like Rivaldo, Kluivert, Saviola, Overmars, Riquelme, etc were all cheap? You're having a laugh.
And we won 2 Ligas and 1 UCL with the first Galacticos but Beckham alone probably made back all the money we spent. That's what you guys don't seem to get.
There is no right or wrong ideology. It's only wrong when you spend beyond your means. It's like trying to tell Bill Gates that he shouldn't buy an expensive mansion or car because it's wrong for him to do so.

Maybe you should accept that your beloved club has almost always been playing second fiddle and that now you've been given the chance to shine. I mean even when we won the last 2 back to back titles I couldn't remember myself talking as much about Barca as you guys are consistently talking about us and our spending. You guys should enjoy this while it lasts and spend less time talking about us.

For someone who just jumped into the Barca bandwagon I reckon outside of the current La Masia graduates and Pep Guardiola you probably couldn't even name me 5 other graduates without the use of Google

Age is one of the most important factors because it means you have time on your side. But I agree we need to settle on a style of play. One of the reasons we brought Pellegrini in actually. Problem with facing quality opponents is that most of the squad can't play with their eyes closed yet. That will take time. So it's not as if we have to stick to a style permanently like Barca have cause if you go back the last few decades we still have won more trophies. And to be honest if Pep didn't come in you guys would still be nowhere

He's been up and down which is normal for any player new to the Spanish league. Even Ibra has been the same but I don't think he's received nearly as much criticism as Kaka has.

Well I definitely have to find a way to console myself right
Jokes aside, I wouldn't say not bothered but when we are on a good run we tend to focus on ourselves more. Just an observation over the last few years.
But we're 2 sides of the same coin really. One can't exist without the other. And almost always when one is on the up the other in on the down. It's quite a curious phenomenon.

Bla bla bla bla
Just shows the difference in quality of posting between you and matyrze.
You can flex and taunt all you want but history has shown we'll get back our turn

Barca's main core have been playing around with each other for a very very long time so it obviously helps. All it needed was a good coach in Pep to guide them along the way.

In general I agree with you regarding Perez. But no one really knows what's on Perez's mind. He's been very low key this time around and most of the talk has been just from the media trying to sell more papers. Allowing Pellegrini to shape his team would be a step in the right direction.
I dunno about it being morally wrong..I don't see what morals have got to do with it. Wrong in footballing terms maybe.


Funny you mention the first Clasico because Kaka played well in that match; probably his best match for us. He's definitely anxious but I'm willing to give him time to adapt.

Funny thing is back in 2002, I was in awe of one of the best Madrid sides ever. But that didn't turn out so well after that. Time will always see to that.
Xavi is 30 yrs old already isn't he? He's the type of player that's almost impossible to replace. Same like Zidane.
Let's just see how it pans out. That's what makes football the sport we love

What are you on about? Seriously I don't even understand what you were trying to say there. Camacho? He hasn't even managed 10 games for us let alone a season. And Schuster won a league title with us

Ignorance? lol
Coming from you that's abit rich ain't it.
It's obvious that it's my point that you don't understand. I'm not denying that Barca have the better of us now. Same like we had the better of Barca 2 years ago. What I'm saying is this is cyclical and it's proven throughout both Barca's and Madrid's history. matyrze understood it. Maybe you just need to brush up your comprehension skills.

Oh sure I've googled Madrid info before when I'm looking for news mainly. But I get my info mostly from elsewhere. Books for instance
I'll give you a chance then. Do it with google. See how many names you can come up with.

Ah the typical cheap shots. Not entirely surprising really. I only had the intention of having a good discussion when I came in here. But you guys are getting so worked up which is kinda funny.

matyrze thanks for sharing your views. You're one of the few here that I have respect for.

Cheers.

Calling your own president a liar won't make your market value plummet. With less than a year on your contract however is another story. Barca were caught in no man's land safe to speak. Eto'o wanted to be rewarded for his contributions with a new but highly paid contract (which frankly he deserved) but it never came (which was why he called Laporta a liar)
I can see why Barca accepted the offer for Ibra at the end given the situation but just taking the value at context it does seem absurd.

How much would Mata fetch realistically? Not as much as Silva or Villa I would think. Valencia's debts are astronomical but their president has done an incredible job keeping their creditors at arm's length. Sid Lowe's recent article talks about it in detail and it's amazing how he managed to pull it off. I've a feeling that with Valencia securing CL qualification they're gonna play hardball with anyone who wants to buy Villa, Silva or Mata and unless they receive a "scandalously scandalous offer".

No offence but I would hardly call that brilliant. What he does is he explains the situation Barca were caught in very well.
But to try to justify Ibra's price by saying you saved on Eto'o is conveniently forgetting how good a player Eto'o was for you guys.
If Messi was caught in the same position for example he would have been given a raise no questions asked regardless of how much it cost.

He values the loss of Eto'o to a free transfer at 20-30 ME.
So how can it be said that Ibra's effective cost is only 40ME when, even if you save 20ME + 10ME in wages and signing bonuses if Eto'o's contract was renewed, you're effectively losing a 20-30ME striker?
It's simple math really. You're still effectively paying at minimum 59ME for Ibra. Is he worth that much? That's not for me to say.

Yes I said that. Which is why I believed Eto'o's contract should have been renewed. That 69ME paid for Ibra would have been enough to cover Eto'o's signing on fee and wages for a few years I reckon.
That's what that guy who wrote the post didn't get. Even if you let Eto'o stay on for another year and he left for free it would have been far more worth it than purchasing Ibra for that price. And iinm the price went up a few million euros because the Hleb loan didn't go thru. So it was like 73ME + Eto'o which is mind boggling really.

But Pep didn't like him very much so it seems like it was an emotional decision rather than an educated one.

Ah my bad then

Even if there was a need for changes was getting rid of Eto'o necessary? The guy scored in the CL final for crying out loud.
He was a key player in the team. If you waited for his contract to expire you would have got another year out of him and you wouldn't need Ibra. Then when he finally leaves you could have explored other options. Villa for example. Ibra wasn't first choice iinm.

I dunno if it was baseless or it was just the media stirring up the rumors. Even when he was questioned about the deal he answered it was just a "feeling". Tactical? Hard to say really.

Congrats to Barca.