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ELm_ELm
post Jun 19 2009, 09:25 AM

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QUOTE(transhumanist92 @ Jun 19 2009, 04:10 AM)
Aliens are real but UFOlogy is a mythology of the space age. Rather than angels ... we now have ... extraterrestrials. It is the product of the creative imagination. It serves a poetic and existential function. It seeks to give man deeper roots and bearings in the universe. It is an expression of our hunger for mystery...our hope for transcendental meaning. The gods of Mt. Olympus have been transformed into space voyagers, transporting us by our dreams to other realms.

The reported perception of an object or light seen in the sky or upon land the appearance, trajectory, and general dynamic and luminescent behavior of which do not suggest a logical, conventional explanation and which is not only mystifying to the original percipients but remains unidentified after close scrutiny of all available evidence by persons who are technically capable of making a common sense identification, if one is possible.

The Drake which was devised by Dr. Frank Drake  allows a person to estimate the probability of several factors and come up with a number for say, the number of intelligent civilizations in the galaxy. It includes factors like rate of new star formation, probability of sun-like stars, probability of planets, probability of life, probability of intelligent life, probability of civilization and technology. Another important factor is the lifetime of such civilizations. When you multiply them all together and multiply that times the number of stars in the galaxy, you get a number.

Since some of these probabilities can't be estimated with any degree of reliability, the numbers you get aren't worth much. The doubt is compounded by the fact that there might be factors which are important, but we haven't considered yet, like the importance of the moon in abiogenesis

When all is said and done, you only get a probability, so even if the figures are all good and all factors considered, it could still be way off.

N = R* X fp X ne X fl  X fi X fc X L

where

N = The number of communicative civilizations
R* = The rate of formation of suitable stars (stars such as our Sun)
fp = The fraction of those stars with planets. (Current evidence indicates that planetary systems may be common for stars like the Sun.)
ne = The number of Earth-like worlds per planetary system
fl = The fraction of those Earth-like planets where life actually develops
fi = The fraction of life sites where intelligence develops
fc = The fraction of communicative planets (those on which electromagnetic communications technology develops)
L = The "lifetime" of communicating civilizations

Frank Drake's own current solution to the Drake Equation estimates 10,000 communicative civilizations in the Milky Way. Dr. Drake, who serves on the SETI League's advisory board, has personally endorsed SETI's planned all-sky survey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation
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nope...alien a.k.a ET is still a myth just like yeti and the other mythical monster as far as we really want to say that alien is for real but if there's no solid evidence prove along the way it will always remain as a myth regardless how many theories that human can came up with about the diversities of the universe...
chezzball
post Jun 20 2009, 12:45 AM

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UFO do exist, i strongly believe UFO are the time machine that future US-ian travels to current worldline/timeline... do you see UFO in malaysia? no.. because these UFO has a 'destination' and most likely it's visiting US
mois
post Jun 20 2009, 09:53 AM

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QUOTE(yoecr7 @ Jun 19 2009, 03:35 AM)
Dunno much about UFO. but I heard most sightings in Malaysia are actually not UFOs...but what if UFO really do exist? I mean there gotta be another living organism/creature/etc out there right?
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Life isnt just exist on earth. In universe, how many galaxies are they? Its almost impossible for earth only that got life. I believe there are billions of living thing that come from different galaxies in our universe. And the alien that we debated might be 1 of the 'billions living thing' out there. My theory is just my opinion. It might be faked or so. But the fact that i hope everyone to agree is, 'we are not alone'. smile.gif

This post has been edited by mois: Jun 20 2009, 09:53 AM
chezzball
post Jun 20 2009, 01:33 PM

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QUOTE(mois @ Jun 20 2009, 09:53 AM)
Life isnt just exist on earth. In universe, how many galaxies are they? Its almost impossible for earth only that got life. I believe there are billions of living thing that come from different galaxies in our universe. And the alien that we debated might be 1 of the 'billions living thing' out there. My theory is just my opinion. It might be faked or so. But the fact that i hope everyone to agree is, 'we are not alone'.  smile.gif
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if these UFO is really another world, why couldn't they just land in front of KLCC tower and wave to fellow humanians?
Vengeance_Mad
post Jun 20 2009, 02:31 PM

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QUOTE(mois @ Jun 20 2009, 09:53 AM)
Life isnt just exist on earth. In universe, how many galaxies are they? Its almost impossible for earth only that got life. I believe there are billions of living thing that come from different galaxies in our universe. And the alien that we debated might be 1 of the 'billions living thing' out there. My theory is just my opinion. It might be faked or so. But the fact that i hope everyone to agree is, 'we are not alone'.  smile.gif
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Agree.
I believe there are aliens in this galaxy, as in other living beings.
But are those UFOs alien or man-made, that I can't be assure.
Still, I agree that we are not alone, in this huge galaxy/universe.
mois
post Jun 20 2009, 07:13 PM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Jun 20 2009, 02:33 PM)
if these UFO is really another world, why couldn't they just land in front of KLCC tower and wave to fellow humanians?
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Alien does not recognises us. They may think we are dangerous to them, imagine if those US millitary or other spot the ufo, they would probably fire a missile and do research on the UFO. And i do think that they are spying us right now. But again, nobody knows what is their motive. But hopefully not the real 'War of the World' smile.gif
befitozi
post Jun 20 2009, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(ELm_ELm @ Jun 19 2009, 09:25 AM)
nope...alien a.k.a ET is still a myth just like yeti and the other mythical monster as far as we really want to say that alien is for real but if there's no solid evidence prove along the way it will always remain as a myth regardless how many theories that human can came up with about the diversities of the universe...
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I would say it take darn alot of arrogance to think that we are the only intelligent lifeform in this vast universe.
cherroy
post Jun 21 2009, 12:23 AM

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We have higher chance that earth being bombarded with asteriod causing human kind of extinction than finding UFO or alien visting the earth.

Even alien is within the same galaxy with earth, milky way, under current law of physics speed on light, it might take hundred of thousand and million of year to reach us.

Human kind have how many year of history? several thosand year, compared to millions year needed to travel, the probability is starting with low point already, somemore, galaxy is so enormous wide, what is the chance alien spotting earth so probability goes even lower.
A thousand year is a relative too small time frame in universe standard.

I don't dispute there are potential life form out there (can be a lot of form, not necessary must be identical with human kind, a head, a body, pair of arm and leg), just the probability of alien reaching earth is not promising at all.


mois
post Jun 21 2009, 08:41 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Jun 21 2009, 01:23 AM)
We have higher chance that earth being bombarded with asteriod causing human kind of extinction than finding UFO or alien visting the earth.

Even alien is within the same galaxy with earth, milky way, under current law of physics speed on light, it might take hundred of thousand and million of year to reach us.

Human kind have how many year of history? several thosand year, compared to millions year needed to travel, the probability is starting with low point already, somemore, galaxy is so enormous wide, what is the chance alien spotting earth so probability goes even lower.
A thousand year is a relative too small time frame in universe standard.

I don't dispute there are potential life form out there (can be a lot of form, not necessary must be identical with human kind, a head, a body, pair of arm and leg), just the probability of alien reaching earth is not promising at all.
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1. NASA might not able to spot any planet that has life. Assuming alien/ufo is one hundred million years from us, in what way our astronomy field can spot where are they? Telescope cant. Unless we can have like radar-scan alike, which is able to scan planets at numerous distance(impossible for now).

2. If alien can travel with the speed of light, i would agree with u that the probability of alien reaching us is small. But since they have such high tech, would u think they have space station near to us? Or even teleportation technology?

The thing that i wonder is, how are they possible to spot earth?
Gravity
post Jun 21 2009, 11:28 PM

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i found the information in serpo.org pretty convincing..hmmm

i believe the existence of aliens.. and i dont deny the possibilities that human had already contacted aliens. the evidences are just too hard for us to deny it..
frags
post Jun 22 2009, 12:38 PM

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QUOTE(Gravity @ Jun 21 2009, 11:28 PM)
i found the information in serpo.org pretty convincing..hmmm

i believe the existence of aliens.. and i dont deny the possibilities that human had already contacted aliens. the evidences are just too hard for us to deny it..
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What evidence?
chezzball
post Jun 22 2009, 12:48 PM

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QUOTE(mois @ Jun 20 2009, 07:13 PM)
Alien does not recognises us. They may think we are dangerous to them, imagine if those US millitary or other spot the ufo, they would probably fire a missile and do research on the UFO. And i do think that they are spying us right now. But again, nobody knows what is their motive. But hopefully not the real 'War of the World'  smile.gif
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hmm... if they are spying on us.. they should know their superweapons and technology is far more superior than us, so would not be afraid of losing to the US.

The topic here is about UFO. I do agree alien do exists. But those UFO that appears on earth is all fake. They have not discovered us 'yet'... i believe
navilink
post Jun 22 2009, 10:20 PM

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if ever UFO did reached Earth, i think somehow the aliens will make some sort of communications with us.. i mean, they've travel many hundreds light years away, and just to stay at our sky for a mere second glimpse by us?! i believe curiosity is the universal feeling..

This post has been edited by navilink: Jun 22 2009, 10:21 PM
mois
post Jun 23 2009, 04:42 PM

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QUOTE(chezzball @ Jun 22 2009, 01:48 PM)
hmm... if they are spying on us.. they should know their superweapons and technology is far more superior than us, so would not be afraid of losing to the US.

The topic here is about UFO. I do agree alien do exists. But those UFO that appears on earth is all fake. They have not discovered us 'yet'... i believe
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Yeah they may not afraid to lose. Not all the ufo spotted on earth are fake. Some of them are real. Even the videos about ufo on youtube are real, but mostly fake. UFO spotted on earth even during WWI or WW2, but not sure because i watched the documentary on astro, History Channel. Well ufo are not much spotted on earth. But outerspace, Nasa spotted them frequently.
cherroy
post Jun 23 2009, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(navilink @ Jun 22 2009, 10:20 PM)
if ever UFO did reached Earth, i think somehow the aliens will make some sort of communications with us.. i mean, they've travel many hundreds light years away, and just to stay at our sky for a mere second glimpse by us?! i believe curiosity is the universal feeling..
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Here come another question, how can they communicate with earth then?

Radio wave?
Ultra-high frequency wave?
Low frequency wave?

If they have the technology, they don't necessary communicate in wavelength or technology we are having now, it could be in other form we human kind don't know yet.

why everyone think alien has almost identical technology with human kind? This is question that always make me wonder, is it human creating or imagine?

As whenever we imagine something, we always use ourself as base form.

I don't doubt it could be UFO or alien or other life form out there, just I have difficult to comprehend alien is identical to human kind as we have so many of probability of living form even on earth alone.

QUOTE(mois @ Jun 23 2009, 04:42 PM)
Yeah they may not afraid to lose. Not all the ufo spotted on earth are fake. Some of them are real. Even the videos about ufo on youtube are real, but mostly fake. UFO spotted on earth even during WWI or WW2, but not sure because i watched the documentary on astro, History Channel. Well ufo are not much spotted on earth. But outerspace, Nasa spotted them frequently.
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Human kind never understand the universe well until now, a lot of issue have in outer space are not fully understand. So there are some phenomena or happened (moving light or objects) then it must be UFO?

Even on anti-matter issue and origin of this universe and earth forming is still not fully understand until now.

UFO = Unidentified Flying Object.

It doesn't necessary must come from alien, it can be another aspect/ phenomena in universe we are not understand yet.
Aurora
post Jul 2 2009, 12:27 AM

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We could travel faster than light by using wormhole. Using enough energy to distort the space at origin and destination, object could simply pass through them. It's theory not entirely understand or proven, but it is likely. Alien could have already discover this technology and use that to travel to our world.

People pay too much attention to reveal evidents that they do exist. One of the most discussed subject beside UFO is alien encounter. Knowing little about them, they could be dangerous. Sometimes, it is best to leave the unknown to be unknown.
farah seth
post Jul 2 2009, 01:44 AM

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i believe that there must be something out there..the galaxies of existance is to big not to have anything else
robertngo
post Jul 2 2009, 03:21 AM

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QUOTE(mois @ Jun 23 2009, 04:42 PM)
Yeah they may not afraid to lose. Not all the ufo spotted on earth are fake. Some of them are real. Even the videos about ufo on youtube are real, but mostly fake. UFO spotted on earth even during WWI or WW2, but not sure because i watched the documentary on astro, History Channel. Well ufo are not much spotted on earth. But outerspace, Nasa spotted them frequently.
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where did you get the idea that Nasa frequestly spotted alien??

i believe there must be other life form out there, but they will be so different from us that we may not be able to see them if they are infront of us. a lot of sci fi have story of alien come to enslave or give us technology, but really it is highly unlikely their technology can be used by us, like if you found an ant on the side of the road do you try to teach them human technology? the funniest sci fi plot about alien have to be Independent Day where all the alien ship are control by Mac compatible computer laugh.gif
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post Jul 2 2009, 12:29 PM

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QUOTE(robertngo @ Jul 2 2009, 03:21 AM)
where did you get the idea that Nasa frequestly spotted alien??

i believe there must be other life form out there, but they will be so different from us that we may not be able to see them if they are infront of us. a lot of sci fi have story of alien come to enslave or give us technology, but really it is highly unlikely their technology can be used by us, like if you found an ant on the side of the road do you try to teach them human technology? the funniest sci fi plot about alien have to be Independent Day where all the alien ship are control by Mac compatible computer  laugh.gif
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Exactly, we only thought of alien with close resemblence of earthly creature, body and limbs. Movie like predator, alien, evolution, star wars, star treks, etc. They may exist in a different way that totally intolerable to human, like a creature without physical body; or a body which exist in multiple-dimension? Scientist has workout that there are 10 to 11 dimension, but human eye only see the 3-dimension. If the creature exist in multi-dimension, how can we know if they exist?

UFO is seen floating in the sky, and people wonder how did they do it. They might have breakthough to other dimension to assist the UFO to float and fly. Hence travelling at a speed faster than light might even be possible. Then again, even think that what we spotted so far might not even be their spaceship, but a device created purposely to scout our world? Because of their difference, they have to use a special device in order to "sense" our present. Human has five "senses", vision, smell, taste, sound, touch. Alien may not "sense" the world as we do, and what we have spotted may not be a resembleance of their kind either.

Human technology are still way behind. Like what robertngo said, we might not be able to use it. It's not the "how to use it", but rather "how to switch it on". It's like dropping a TV in stone-age, teach them how it operate, and how to use it. But end of the day, there is no mean to switch it on because the technology to power it (electricity) yet to be discover. And what about filming and recording, encorder, radiowave transmission?

We already know that lightspeed travel and time-travel require large amount of energy. Summing all the energy we generate on earth for the next 10 years, still might not be enough to power their machine.
pleasuresaurus
post Jul 2 2009, 09:03 PM

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If technologies like fusion, antimatter and quantum phase are perfected we'd pack enough juice in a Coke can to fly to Andromeda. Not in my lifetime. But anyways, back to the subject of aliens, i think the Fermi-Hart paradox is an interesting conundrum. If there really were aliens, they're sure as hell quiet. The galaxy is old, very old, plenty of time for star-faring civilizations to evolve. And yet we get nothing, not so much as a peep on the RF or EM. Even SETI ain't got nothing. I think there's a helluva lot going on out there that we're not aware of...and "we come in peace" might not be a part of it.

This post has been edited by pleasuresaurus: Jul 2 2009, 09:05 PM

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