Time travel. Interesting. I always believed in impossible things. Just think of it this way, it's not impossible, just not yet possible.

Heheh... you're right.


Time is such an interesting topic, it brings out all the intellectuals. I thought my ideas were radical, till I read through the other posts, many of us have similar ideas, and good eye opener counter points.

I too believe that time does not exist. It is just a measurement of change.
As mention before by another poster, we are talking about time travel, and not travelling to another dimension. What this means is that, my alterations of the past, will change what events took place that affects the present. Not that we simply, shift off to a different dimension where things turn out differently.

If we do travel to another dimension, then this will be equivalent to travelling to another planet (another point in space), where things happen to have occurred similarly as our own, with a slight variance. Thus the grandfather paradox will no longer apply; killing myself in that dimension, will have no effect on me in my present, pass or future.

On the other hand, if we are referring to travelling to the same time line that has resulted in my existence and all I observe in the present, then the grandfather paradox too will not be logical either.

Because, what will happen when I kill my own self in the pass? Obviously I won’t be able to do so. Perhaps some may say that the whole fabric of time and space would crumble if I did so. In which case, why aren’t we observing it now?

Then there’s the idea that things will play out in a predestine fashion, so that I will naturally, never be able to kill myself, or cause incidents that were never done in the pass. The idea of predestine, means that, in effect time is still flowing in a linear fashion, which means that if I go to the future and observe myself. With that knowledge change my actions in the future, instead of saying “yes”, I say “no”. I’m sure that is possible, unless some unforeseen force controls my future body and I am just an observer.

In chaos theory, the very existence of us in the pass, or even a single molecule floating into the pass, could completely alter the future, unless we accept that everything is predestined. That is not true, our pass may be plastered and made linear, but our future may still branch out based on our actions.

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Added on September 14, 2010, 12:08 pmWith regards to Dejavu.

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Added on September 14, 2010, 12:45 pmThe idea that if we travel fast enough time will move backwards, I think this is not true.

This notion probably came from Einstein's idea that if we moved at the speed of light, time will appear to have stopped. The word here is appear, and time doesn't really stop. We can never reach the speed in which time stops. We will always only become closer to it. which means, instead of 1 second for you to reach point B. you will now reach it in 0.01 second.. or 0.00001 second to infinity. You will never reach beyond that point to achieve 0 seconds, therefore time will never really stop, and you can't go pass that until time moves in reverse.

In otherwords it will be 1km in a sec. 100km in a sec. 1 billion light years in a sec. to infinity. You can never formulate the speed required before time actually stops.

Appearing to stop here, is also not accurate. Just because one is moving fast, doesn't mean that things actually appear to move slowly. Unless, your thought process catches up to that speed, in which case, you don't have to actually, be moving.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 14 2010, 12:46 PM

so are all of us...

INFACT, all of us are time traveller.. from past to present to future... with the same rate

the thing is, time travelling tend to link with the journy travelling at different rate at different directions

Oohh.... there`s another cheaper ticket to travel into the future.... cryogenic

by freezing your body and mind as it is today and reawakened it in 10 years time...

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Added on September 14, 2010, 2:17 pmDoer,

do you watch this mythbuster?

there`s this episode... where they try to bust a myth of the person facing near death experience feels that time slows down.. they use two super accurate digital clocks.. one with a person experiencing free fall while the other outside the experiment boundary....

results shown that the bearer`s clock slows down by 0.00001% (which how many 0`s I have not remember) but it shows the possibility

even astronauts travelling at 20,000km/hr also face this slowing in time on spaceships above.... which is proven the same method as above

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Added on September 14, 2010, 2:18 pmthe ideal velocity would be the speed of light... for now....

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Added on September 14, 2010, 2:23 pmthese few things are intertwined with each other

blackhole,whitehole(theoretically), worm holes, gravitational well, grand unified theory, event horizon etc etc...

time travel, parallel universe, big bang... all is a piece of cake... what we do ie look from the top, we see a circle, from side, we see square, isometric view, we see the 3D picture of if.....



This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 14 2010, 02:23 PM

Oh I must have missed it. I'm skeptical about it. Have to check it out later.

The clocks may be accurate, but what about the triggering?

I just looked up the wiki, and seems like time dilation has been proven, with a guy taking a plane round the world twice in both directions and the results show that time seems to be different from a stationary clock.

Need to give this more thought.

The layman examples given always explain "what" will happen, but when it comes to "how" it happens its all in math formulae, it's hard to imagine.

I've done more research, I think this explains the confusion between, what time stopping actually means:
Speed of light would not stop time..?


Perhaps time might be able to slow down, disproving my idea that time does not exist. But time travel (excluding going to the future with stasis) still appears to be impossible based on the explanation given earlier.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 15 2010, 11:52 AM

there`s one episode that they put a pig in a new ferrari car and let it to rot while seal it so that the smell wont escape. Then they sell the car with 100bucks... and no one buy it

why is the hardest to answer in the 5 W

Hum yes. That is a bummer :/ but as they say, if a theory cannot be explained in simple terms to a kid, perhaps the theory is all wrong

The prob is, what this theory is saying is that, at our current speeds, the difference is so miniscule that we can't observe the differences naturally ourselves without an elaborated experiment.

Therefore it is hard for us, to imagine it, as it isn't apparent to us.

Hey this leads me to another Question regarding boosting our travelling speed, if I remember correctly the answer should be false. But I donno why, and I received different answers to this. What's your take?

Does Velocity stack?

not quite, I`d say it is beyond our mortal realm of comprehension... a simple analogy.. in TV, no matter how 3D the Japs can make, it is still 2D, Imagine the person behind the screen is alive and you are talking to him. You told him that the world that you lived in is 4D, + time as another D...

as far as he can tell, his world is 3D, but still it is 2D due to the flat surface of the TV.. yet, he cant comprehend how the world of 3D or 4D is like....

e.g. travelling in a car at 100km/hr and to throw a ball forward at 20km/hr and make the ball travellingat 120km/hr?

There has been ideas of holograms, and water vapour 3D TVs. hum... 4D? that also applies to a movie. We're drifting off topic .

Yes.

I know that some might argue that the ball will quickly decelerate on leaving the car, due to friction, and no more propulsion from the car. But at the point of throwing, the idea is it should be faster than the car itself? take particles in the air out of the equation.

If this were the case, this means that we could pass the speed of light, if we could create a huge vehicle travelling faster than 50% the speed of light, and another vehicle within it also travelling faster than 50% the speed of light.

(Yes I know it would be a ridiculous sized vehicle )
(or... perhaps if it were in a loop?)

And we could also have multiple: vehicle in a vehicle, that way each vehicle doesn't need to travel that fast.


But I don't think it's that easy is it?

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 16 2010, 12:20 PM

no, we are still within the topic.. 4th Dimension is essential... which is time

this has been argued cosntantly, alas, we do not have a sophisticated enough test experiment to reach that realm of velocity....

and we are still primitif beings(according to autobots) whom still harvest fossil fuel for propulsion... if, we were to reach that speed with current technology, then we would be carrying a damn lot of fuel... which indirectly leads to addition of weight

bro, you can watch this video by stephen hawkings..........

http://www.tom365.com/movie_2004/html/8103...1059135624.html

P/S, to watch, DL the QPod player on bottom left

Serious... wow... I thought that would not be possible at all.

Well, we're just talking about theory now of course, as opposed to Never be able to travel faster than the speed of light.

It's not just the fuel, let's say we found more efficient fuel and a better propulsion system, we'd also need to make a gigantic ship, a few light minutes in size at least. (if we don't use a loop)

In the case of a loop, it would need to be big enough and able to withstand such speeds multiplied by billions of rotations.

Then a moving object within a moving object, that got me thinking too... I can imagine, that if we are running within a moving wheel, our inertia would increase, but a wheel within a wheel, not sure how that will play out. But should be the same.

in engineering, nothing is impossible...

driving at 200km/hr were seemed to be impossible 100 years ago, and now, driving at 1,000km/hr is possible with attached jet engine... just not feasible and practical yet

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Added on September 16, 2010, 5:49 pmohh.... not forgetting, credits to einstein.. he is who let us know the possibility of time travel... which leads to fictional time travelling..

Doraemon, terminator, time machine, back to the future etc

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Added on September 16, 2010, 5:52 pmthere is this method.. theoretically.. again the numbers seemed beyond our capability....

is to create an artificial black hole and with hypercomputer to calculate the exact location and probability that we would land onto..

again.. create a black hole? A black hole is a superdense dead star that has almost density of infinite density(density= mass/volume; whereby the mass keep on increasing and the volume keep on shrinking)

to fathom the energy required would be mind blowing

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 16 2010, 05:52 PM

wow wow wow.
too long and too many to read.
I see something regarding dimensions and speed + slowing down of time etc.

well.
first, get a clear glimpse on the word 'dimension' in physics.
what is a dimension?
quite abstract now.
we are living in 4 dimensional world:
3 spacial and 1 time.
in string theory it is predicted that the world has 11 dimensions,
the others that we can't 'see' are being curled up to Planck length.
so, traveling into another dimension?
not quite, you would have to shrink yourself to the size of 10^(-35) in order to 'jump' into the other dimension.

talking about the dimension of time and its property.
time can be associated with the description of 'arrow of time',
which literally means the 'direction' of time.
each spacial dimension has 2 way actually, forward and backward, which means 2 opposite directions.
but for time, it is only one directional, and the same direction as entropy.
so it is reversible.

time, is relative, not absolute.
it differs from different inertial frames of reference.
this is well explained in special relativity.
under the topic of time dilation.
we can slow time, and thus applying this to time travel.
we can travel to future.

and we are already applying it to our daily life if you don't realize.
astronauts or satellites above our head?
they experience weaker gravitational force,
and they are traveling at high speed,
these would result in time dilation and thus the time for the satellite will run at different rate as compared to those on earth.

however those satellites, especially those need to send real time information, together with 'time',
such as GPS.
the clock on satellite has to be synchronized with those on earth,
which means the times have to be the same.
if time dilation wasn't counted into the error and make corrections,
the whole GPS system would have been screwed up.
small dilation results in large change over time.

your time is 11.00a.m. right now.
the GPS sends you the real time-information of the traffic, but the associated time is, 10.50a.m. or even smaller.
however the little difference would mean a large fault in whole system.

No, we are talking about hypothetically speaking, not refering to how that would be possible.

As you can see in "Back to the future" movies, it assumes that if you change your history, you will be transported to an alternate future.

From my explanation, that would not be called "time travel", only "space travel".

Which infers that we can't change our pass. Unless it is predestined. But predestined is a silly concept because, that would mean that we will not be able to control our own actions.

Therefore I conclude that, time travelling to the pass is impossible.

I'm looking for proof like these for time dilation. Can you provide some references on this problem on satelites/GPS? Not refering to Astronaut's time in space, as their biology would be effected by more than just time.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Sep 17 2010, 10:46 AM

erm this,
http://www.astronomy.ohio-state.edu/~pogge.../Unit5/gps.html
I've read thru it, and this source is reliable, the information is true.

friend.. you are right

it is known as paradox... it is like I travelled back in time 50 years ago and murdered my grandparents, and will I be vanished? It is an oxymoron argument...

again, there`s this book, forget the name.. argue this... "time" flows like water... meaning, analogous instread of steps... get what I mean? every pikosecond or smaller brings different result and output in future... meaning, the second I sad hello andthe next second I say how all bring different results to the future. This indirectly yields to the possibilithon monkiy hitting the keyboard scenario... each input yield multiple output and on and on.. the numbers just keep multiplying... so, what does this haveto do with time travel?

well, it argues that the time flow with each set of time frame itself.. meaning, the moment I left this moment, then I and with this moment all the time(past and future) and the moment that I left remains flwing with you(TheDoer) to observe it. And IF I were to travelled back an hour ago to kill meself, will I still exist? It says yes..

scenario 1
Me: accurately depart to an hour ago... 2249:1234567second(this clocks keep on ticking despite that I left)
Me: arrived accurately at 2149:1234567second(an hour ago)
the me at 2149:1234567second is sleeping and the me at 2249 were to kill the me at 2149 and that will not affect me at 2249 since the me at 2149 is living in the 2149 time frame and if the me is dead, he is dead at the time frame ONLY

N.B I do not agree of disagree with this argument, just share what I read. but it sounds plausible though

if i where to have a time machine i would prefer to be able to got to the future, but the going back to the past is much more interesting and usefull.

i would get all the standard university text book on medicine, science, engineering, architecture and travel back a few hundred year in the pass and present these knowledge to one of the major empire, if they decide not the execute me for witchcraft and i get the approval of the king to implement the industrial revolution, i would be a god in that era with the kind of technological advancement that i given to the people.

like the Trevor Grant story line in the new season of eureka

Do it... Bring a group of engineers to egypt and help the pharaoh and we`ll read how robertngo from the future help the pharaoh build the great giza instead of speculating aliens help them

Why would you bring new technology back to mess with the past? Why would alien help build a tomb but the people never express their gratitude by carving aliens in stone?

Time travel backwards seems against the Universe which is expanding and leaving things behind then a medium you can interact with in the time zone like every molecule duplicate itself and remain there.

If we found the way to do that, the purpose of our existence or Universe's will be known and could be the ultimate end, it is like can't wait to meet god. Simple, wait until we die is only one lifetime away and how many years have you got left to know the answer?

One day if human is able to travel across the Universe where there is nothing more to discover, then only tackle the time issue.

how notto deal wuith timewhen our puny human life span is so short

it is like an ant travelling on its 6 leg and plan to visit earth within its life span

That means the past does not affect the future?