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Physics <<<<<Time Travel>>>>>, The Past, Present, and Future

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Awakened_Angel
post Sep 14 2010, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(lin00b @ Feb 8 2010, 11:58 AM)
i'm time traveling right now.
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so are all of us...

INFACT, all of us are time traveller.. from past to present to future... with the same rate

the thing is, time travelling tend to link with the journy travelling at different rate at different directions

Oohh.... there`s another cheaper ticket to travel into the future.... cryogenic

by freezing your body and mind as it is today and reawakened it in 10 years time...


Added on September 14, 2010, 2:17 pm
QUOTE(TheDoer @ Sep 14 2010, 01:07 PM)
Heheh...  you're right.
Time is such an interesting topic,  it brings out all the intellectuals. I thought my ideas were radical, till I read through the other posts, many of us have similar ideas, and good eye opener counter points.

I too believe that time does not exist. It is just a measurement of change.
As mention before by another poster, we are talking about time travel, and not travelling to another dimension. What this means is that, my alterations of the past, will change what events took place that affects the present.  Not that we simply, shift off to a different dimension where things turn out differently.

If we do travel to another dimension, then this will be equivalent to travelling to another planet (another point in space), where things happen to have occurred similarly as our own, with a slight variance. Thus the grandfather paradox will no longer apply; killing myself in that dimension, will have no effect on me in my present, pass or future. 

On the other hand, if we are referring to travelling to the same time line that has resulted in my existence and all I observe in the present, then the grandfather paradox too will not be logical either.

Because, what will happen when I kill my own self in the pass? Obviously I won’t be able to do so.  Perhaps some may say that the whole fabric of time and space would crumble if I did so.  In which case, why aren’t we observing it now?

Then there’s the idea that things will play out in a predestine fashion, so that I will naturally, never be able to kill myself, or cause incidents that were never done in the pass. The idea of predestine, means that, in effect time is still flowing in a linear fashion,  which means that if I go to the future and observe myself.  With that knowledge change my actions in the future, instead of saying “yes”, I say “no”.  I’m sure that is possible, unless some unforeseen force controls my future body and I am just an observer. 

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Doer,

do you watch this mythbuster?

there`s this episode... where they try to bust a myth of the person facing near death experience feels that time slows down.. they use two super accurate digital clocks.. one with a person experiencing free fall while the other outside the experiment boundary....

results shown that the bearer`s clock slows down by 0.00001% (which how many 0`s I have not remember) but it shows the possibility

even astronauts travelling at 20,000km/hr also face this slowing in time on spaceships above.... which is proven the same method as above


Added on September 14, 2010, 2:18 pm
QUOTE(TheDoer @ Sep 14 2010, 01:07 PM)
In otherwords it will be 1km in a sec. 100km in a sec. 1 billion light years in a sec. to infinity. You can never formulate the speed required before time actually stops.
the ideal velocity would be the speed of light... for now....


Added on September 14, 2010, 2:23 pmthese few things are intertwined with each other

blackhole,whitehole(theoretically), worm holes, gravitational well, grand unified theory, event horizon etc etc...

time travel, parallel universe, big bang... all is a piece of cake... what we do ie look from the top, we see a circle, from side, we see square, isometric view, we see the 3D picture of if.....



This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 14 2010, 02:23 PM
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 15 2010, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(TheDoer @ Sep 15 2010, 12:06 PM)
Oh I must have missed it. I'm skeptical about it. Have to check it out later.
there`s one episode that they put a pig in a new ferrari car and let it to rot while seal it so that the smell wont escape. Then they sell the car with 100bucks... and no one buy it rclxms.gif

QUOTE
The clocks may be accurate, but what about the triggering?

I just looked up the wiki, and seems like time dilation has been proven, with a guy taking a plane round the world twice in both directions and the results show that time seems to be different from a stationary clock.

Need to give this more thought.

The layman examples given always explain "what" will happen, but when it comes to "how" it happens its all in math formulae, it's hard to imagine.

I've done more research, I think this explains the confusion between, what time stopping actually means:
Speed of light would not stop time..?
Perhaps time might be able to slow down, disproving my idea that time does not exist. But time travel (excluding going to the future with stasis) still appears to be impossible based on the explanation given earlier.
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why is the hardest to answer in the 5 W
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 16 2010, 10:30 AM

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QUOTE(TheDoer @ Sep 16 2010, 10:46 AM)
Hum yes.  That is a bummer :/ but as they say, if a theory cannot be explained in simple terms to a kid, perhaps the theory is all wrong tongue.gif
not quite, I`d say it is beyond our mortal realm of comprehension... a simple analogy.. in TV, no matter how 3D the Japs can make, it is still 2D, Imagine the person behind the screen is alive and you are talking to him. You told him that the world that you lived in is 4D, + time as another D...

as far as he can tell, his world is 3D, but still it is 2D due to the flat surface of the TV.. yet, he cant comprehend how the world of 3D or 4D is like....

QUOTE
e.g. travelling in a car at 100km/hr and to throw a ball forward at 20km/hr and make the ball travellingat 120km/hr?
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 16 2010, 02:56 PM

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QUOTE(TheDoer @ Sep 16 2010, 12:45 PM)
There has been ideas of holograms, and water vapour 3D TVs. hum... 4D?  that also applies to a movie. We're drifting off topic tongue.gif.
no, we are still within the topic.. 4th Dimension is essential... which is time

QUOTE
Yes.

I know that some might argue that the ball will quickly decelerate on leaving the car, due to friction, and no more propulsion from the car. But at the point of throwing, the idea is it should be faster than the car itself?  take particles in the air out of the equation.

If this were the case, this means that we could pass the speed of light, if we could create a huge vehicle travelling faster than 50% the speed of light, and another vehicle within it also travelling faster than 50% the speed of light.

(Yes I know it would be a ridiculous sized vehicle  tongue.gif)
(or...  perhaps if it were in a loop?)

And we could also have multiple: vehicle in a vehicle, that way each vehicle doesn't need to travel that fast.
But I don't think it's that easy is it?
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this has been argued cosntantly, alas, we do not have a sophisticated enough test experiment to reach that realm of velocity....

and we are still primitif beings(according to autobots) whom still harvest fossil fuel for propulsion... if, we were to reach that speed with current technology, then we would be carrying a damn lot of fuel... which indirectly leads to addition of weight

bro, you can watch this video by stephen hawkings..........

http://www.tom365.com/movie_2004/html/8103...1059135624.html

P/S, to watch, DL the QPod player on bottom left biggrin.gif
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 16 2010, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(TheDoer @ Sep 16 2010, 05:30 PM)
Serious... wow...  I thought  that would not be possible at all. 

*
in engineering, nothing is impossible...

driving at 200km/hr were seemed to be impossible 100 years ago, and now, driving at 1,000km/hr is possible with attached jet engine... just not feasible and practical yet


Added on September 16, 2010, 5:49 pmohh.... not forgetting, credits to einstein.. he is who let us know the possibility of time travel... which leads to fictional time travelling..

Doraemon, terminator, time machine, back to the future etc


Added on September 16, 2010, 5:52 pmthere is this method.. theoretically.. again the numbers seemed beyond our capability....

is to create an artificial black hole and with hypercomputer to calculate the exact location and probability that we would land onto..

again.. create a black hole? A black hole is a superdense dead star that has almost density of infinite density(density= mass/volume; whereby the mass keep on increasing and the volume keep on shrinking)

to fathom the energy required would be mind blowing

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 16 2010, 05:52 PM
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 17 2010, 10:44 PM

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QUOTE(TheDoer @ Sep 17 2010, 11:40 AM)
No, we are talking about hypothetically speaking, not refering to how that would be possible.

As you can see in "Back to the future" movies, it assumes that if you change your history, you will be transported to an alternate future.

From my explanation, that would not be called "time travel", only "space travel".

Which infers that we can't change our pass.  Unless it is predestined. But predestined is a silly concept because, that would mean that we will not be able to control our own actions.

Therefore I conclude that, time travelling to the pass is impossible.
I'm looking for proof like these for time dilation. Can you provide some references on this problem on satelites/GPS? Not refering to Astronaut's time in space, as their biology would be effected by more than just time.
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friend.. you are right

it is known as paradox... it is like I travelled back in time 50 years ago and murdered my grandparents, and will I be vanished? It is an oxymoron argument...

again, there`s this book, forget the name.. argue this... "time" flows like water... meaning, analogous instread of steps... get what I mean? every pikosecond or smaller brings different result and output in future... meaning, the second I sad hello andthe next second I say how all bring different results to the future. This indirectly yields to the possibilithon monkiy hitting the keyboard scenario... each input yield multiple output and on and on.. the numbers just keep multiplying... so, what does this haveto do with time travel?

well, it argues that the time flow with each set of time frame itself.. meaning, the moment I left this moment, then I and with this moment all the time(past and future) and the moment that I left remains flwing with you(TheDoer) to observe it. And IF I were to travelled back an hour ago to kill meself, will I still exist? It says yes..

scenario 1
Me: accurately depart to an hour ago... 2249:1234567second(this clocks keep on ticking despite that I left)
Me: arrived accurately at 2149:1234567second(an hour ago)
the me at 2149:1234567second is sleeping and the me at 2249 were to kill the me at 2149 and that will not affect me at 2249 since the me at 2149 is living in the 2149 time frame and if the me is dead, he is dead at the time frame ONLY

N.B I do not agree of disagree with this argument, just share what I read. but it sounds plausible though
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 18 2010, 01:28 PM

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QUOTE(robertngo @ Sep 18 2010, 12:06 PM)
if i where to have a time machine i would prefer to be able to got to the future, but the going back to the past is much more interesting and usefull.

i would get all the standard university text book on medicine, science, engineering, architecture and travel back a few hundred year in the pass and present these knowledge to one of the major empire, if they decide not the execute me for witchcraft and i get the approval of the king to implement the industrial revolution, i would be a god in that era with the kind of technological advancement that i given to the people.

like the Trevor Grant story line in the new season of eureka  biggrin.gif
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Do it... Bring a group of engineers to egypt and help the pharaoh and we`ll read how robertngo from the future help the pharaoh build the great giza instead of speculating aliens help them tongue.gif
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 18 2010, 02:41 PM

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how notto deal wuith timewhen our puny human life span is so short

it is like an ant travelling on its 6 leg and plan to visit earth within its life span
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 18 2010, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(SpikeMarlene @ Sep 18 2010, 06:21 PM)
That means the past does not affect the future?
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the past of that particular time frame affect only the future of the continuing time frame


Added on September 18, 2010, 5:54 pmN.B it is essetial to assume that time flows like river and each pikosecond (or smaller) will create result that is different with the next comind moment. And by affecting any specific(I mean very specific) time, you will create different result based on where you touch the time

this might be bit confusing tongue.gif


Added on September 19, 2010, 10:57 amImagine this./... terminator were to travel back in time to save john cornor

He cant change the devastated state that he live in, but he can change the future that never happen from the past that he plan to change

user posted image

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 19 2010, 10:58 AM
Awakened_Angel
post Sep 20 2010, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(TheDoer @ Sep 20 2010, 02:33 PM)
Well, that will be like what I stated as in a different dimension, or different world, that would not be considered as a different time.

The reason I say that is because you can never change the pass. You are changing a different pass, and in doing so, only the time traveller can see the difference, when he goes to that alternate universe.
But in the case of terminator, what is shown is predesitny, and nobody was able to change the pass.  no matter how the machines tried to kill Connor, they weren't able to, and no matter how Connor tried to stop the machine from taking over the world, he could not.  It all plays out, that in the end, everything happens predestined, the only thing is he didn't know it was predestined, until it occured.  

But assuming, you know exactly what happens, does that stop you from acting the opposite?
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well said.. TheDoer DO it rclxms.gif rclxms.gif

like how the Scientist in TimeMachine did. He was trap in the TimeMachine(as well as time) and can see how the present around him turn into past, but he cant change it.

This post has been edited by Awakened_Angel: Sep 20 2010, 01:42 PM

 

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