I believe when you start attending classes there (in Southampton), ur lecturer and seniors will brief you through which paper is recommended to be cleared first etc. Even though similarly all actuarial schools in the UK are tied to the institute. The sylabus are highly identical, but the order may be quite different.
Some school, teaches probability first, some school starts with financial math, some begins with programming skills.
hence, saying what paper to "clear first" is quite a "it depends" scenario. And would need someone in the same school to tell you whats the best order to tackle the papers.
For general informations regarding actuarial examinations (for any board), just go on to www.actuaries.org.uk Everything is basically up there. Check under "be an actuary" and "student". You will get a better view of whats expected of you, hopefully.

if you have any questions regarding these issues and cannot find an answer from the website, just ask it here (be more specific, of course)

Cheers

This post has been edited by RyukA: Aug 7 2011, 01:14 AM

your best bet is, check with your Uni.
Should be A,B,C,D......

And annual examinations, unless its semester-ised.

some minor corrections,

In actuarial, You will probably have to deal with all sorts of math a statistician will have to deal with,
common calculus & limiting distributions. Financial math for premium pricing, Generalised linear models &
mathematical statistics most of the time, sometimes Geometry & trigo, when you are fitting models
with (sin, cos, characteristics) or using certain algorithm when running simulations.
But dont worry, you dont do those everyday, Calculus? yes.

The building blocks of Actuarial Science, is reasonable, logical and fluent, with introductory economics,
some understanding of mechanism in finance. Although the statistics part is rather abstract at first, but ease up as you go on.
Insurance math stuff, is not abstract, just you know where you start, where to end, but there's a huge drama in between
the calculation to get there.

Math degree (I am assuming pure math, which is also whats special bout math anyway) mostly
give you deeper understanding on "stuff you dont really directly need in applied math" (if you are gonna work in some
boring corporation someday). You go deeper into fundamental principles of everything, learn techniques of proof,
bunch and bunch of abstract concept (not really tedious, but if you dont know it, you probably dont even know how to start).
I am not sure bout others, as I just do probability & measure theory. But can expect similar structure for all other pure math courses.
Well it also depends on the University, how theoretical or applied they want most math courses to be.

PS: Pre-U and high school math hardly tell anything. I have bunch of friends with 3A's struggle in 1st year pure math course.
And some of my 3rd yr math classmates hardly reach a TER of 82.
If you like to deal with numbers, stick with Actuarial, finance, stat, engineering. Or math will make your life miserable.

here's a small example of how both are different:

Actuarial Sci.
Here's f(x) a probability density function that describes
automobile claim, X. While here's f(y) another Prob. density function
to describe the similar automobile claim, X.
Provided is 120 claim size data that are assumed to be independent.
Run a suitable test to decide which model fits the claim distribution more adequate. Explain.

Math
Using similar argument in Axiom of Choice,
Prove or disprove that there exist a probability measure Q(x), from Powerset(Real) -> [0,1] such that
F(x) := Q((-inf,x]) is a continous function.

You can, if you want to be prepared for IB.


by the way some of the difference on AS and math is for TS, as I assume
you must be an expert (sort of) in knowing the difference between the 2 by now. lol

A statistician knows how to joke alot better and in a more comprehendable way than an actuary, traditionally.
Well, I observe that from a sample of my lecturers. hahahaha.
it usually goes this way
Applied statistics < Specialised statistics< Mathematical statistics

Finance is basically an application of statistics. With some crap theories, contributed by economists as well. Hahaha.

Dont be too concerned bout dealing with exponents,
till today I still refer to notes to do integration by part and integration of exponents. lol

basically you study 3 or 4 years for your degree, to learn the building blocks of actuarial science,
that is if you do well, you get exempted for papers case by case. hence, you will get your PART I of actuarial
qualification done (if you do well),
PART II and III are taken externally (although, there's some school that exempt for Part II as well, with a higher cut-off exemption grade).
If you are lifeless and/or highly intellectual and/or an expert in AS and/or just being lucky,
you might be able to finish all 3 PARTS within 7 years (std. dev 1.4 years).

Or, you can give up, and take CFA or CPA or some other qualification instead. Which is rumoured to be, what
people usually do.
PArt II passing rate is around 40%, Part III is 33%. for reference.


Actuarial science is a study of methods to manage financial risk. From interest rates, up to premium pricing.
Everything in finance, is incorporated as a finance applicable in actuarial science if thats what you are asking.
Oh, except we dont do much of single cash flow stuff, or financial calculators, perhaps these are too mainstream.

all you get most of the time is bunch of horrible algebra, and some tables to work with. maybe.

no.
you satisfy the Educational requirement for Part I and II, but you need to attend some required courses, working experience, a seminar module and stuff.
Provided you can pass through everything in single seating (thats if you are an awesome genius), you can finish everything in bout 6 years.

You need to clear even more specialised modules to be a fellow, while you need solid working experience for becoming an associate. Oh, and also dont forget all the assessments and papers.

Local Private? or Local public?

UKM & UTAR are quite reputable. (among all the local ones, of course).

Want a good twinning programme, then go for HELP University.

What are u trying to ask?

On another note,
Btw existing UTAR students, is there any (postgrad, undergrad) research program that UTAR implicitly or explicitly offers?

-Doesnt matter if its Non-award. In fields of Statistics, Actuarial, Finance, Mathematics.

Concepts are hard taught, if the presenter lacks ability to simplify jargons, and provide good illustration, examples.
For that I would say, it is perfectly normal to find Addmath hard at 1st attempt.
But lets be reasonable, paper-crunching doesnt help all the time. In fact its because of many wrong approach to "understand" the intuition behind these sylabus, is what made even some of the straight A's (or rather A+++ in Math)
stuck at certain depth of mathematical study.
Rather than saying, Uni-level math & SPM level math is not comparable, I would say it definitely is, by common sense.
But that would in no way imply one's passion in Math (at SPM level) should be turned down, based on these differences.
Then again, what would 1st year mathematics be for? Each transition would be a bridge, but how big is the gap in between depend on alot of personal factor. So, I would suggest its rather abit early to tell, but failing is not a shame,
but rather admitting u learnt something, which others might had even avoided in the 1st place.
In respect to advanced courses, each prerequisite studies, and high school materials are building bricks of your foundation.

Never try, never know.

"So, I would suggest its rather abit early to tell, but failing is not a shame,
but rather admitting u learnt something, which others might had even avoided in the 1st place."
general context.

cheers.

Everytime a word "suggest", would use upon expressing personal opinion, in a general context,
not necessarily be a response specific to particular individual but possibly on a general audience (in this case, likely future students that came across these posts for info).
What would be the problem of giving additional advice (given some observation of similar issue in the past), on top of
responding to a specific individual.

"So, I would suggest its rather abit early to tell, but failing is not a shame,
but rather admitting u learnt something, which others might had even avoided in the 1st place."
in this case, "u" refer to anyone reading it while facing the same dilema/issue.
And since u claimed to had graduated, it is obviously not in any way related to you.

There's a difference between forum posting, and PM, for which the latter is used for personal conversations.
I dont see a problem of me giving additional "advice" on top of my response.

For those always relying on Past year/old edition notes, manuals, have to keep in mind:
- Sylabus are subject to changes for each intake
- Always check with the official Sylabus outline
- study manuals & "3rd party" course notes are just a Additional preference, and should not be prioritised
on top of the Official Study material Recommended or provided by the institution.

SOA have a very good website to handle education related queries. Use it:
and check the sylabus corresponding the Exam you are expected to sit.

official:
http://www.soa.org/education/exam-req/edu-exam-p-detail.aspx

Their Recommended Info site:
http://www.beanactuary.org/exams/prelimina...robability-exam

Example: Exam-P 2012 Sept
http://www.beanactuary.org/exams/prelimina...Sept-exam-p.pdf

Now u can answer your own question.

depends on your lecturer.
There is no prescribed standard.
but most content in an actuarial program will likely have assessments that are heavily exam-weighted.

I did a double degree in Actuarial & Commerce, where my commerce program covers Accounting and Finance.
Hard to do it with a double degree? Depends on which stage you are talking about;
1. For a Math/Actuarial combined degree, early stage would be a living hell having the need to crunch in abstract math and understand them at different context. But as you do a few intermediate courses in mathematical analysis and bit more theoretical stuff, it actually aids you for the Actuarial courses as you find concepts are relatively easier to pick up.

2. For a Finance/Actuarial type of combination, you wont really feel a very strong difference in early years except the fact that you probably need to do more statistics than the usual finance cohort. At the final stage, what you learn is probably the career wise skill-set that differs between finance (let it be quant type or just general capital markets) and the actuarial approach of doing things. In terms of content, up to the intermediate level, they are pretty darn similar if you talking about the quantitative type of finance.

3. Actuarial & Commerce or even Actuarial & Econs, they are probably the most arguably independent set you can ever get within the "commercial stream of businesses". Both program have different focus (some might say actuarial are clearly alot harder than the usual business courses, I will leave that up to your own judgment), you probably do very different stuff along the way of both programs, except some minor reference when insurance are mentioned in commercial context; or actuarial contents talk about management aspects/ the financial statement analysis. Yet, your final year is probably gonna be horrible, when you deal with the final year subjects for both. Its both gonna be time-consuming and tedious. Thats something people dont see it coming.

I have quite a group of friends that did mathematics in uni. I would have to say, apart from just being concerned about how much you can earn, what social prestige does your qualification entitles you for, speaking from the asian background culture; receiving an education is probably alot more than that.
I have among these friends, some that went into Astrophysics research, a few proceeded into their PhD, two of them went for Computer science & programming sort of stuff; while the remaining 5 go into Finance ranging from investment management up to investment banking.
Job Opportunities? Probably you just have to realise without any prior full-time working experience, jobs are not gonna find you, you need to do your research & find them.

Speaking from my own experience, within the 35 actuarial graduates in my cohort, I can hardly point out 10 that really move on to pursue an actuarial career (immediately). A minimal amount of them continued their part II education, a majority of them moved into finance while a significant amount of them move into insurance but not within the actuarial department. As usual, what did the top, brightest & very "money" motivated individuals go into?
They start their own business, trade stocks & engage themselves commercially.
True hard fact is that, working for someone else is not gonna earn you big bucks, if thats what one is concerned about, which is in line with the risk-return proportionality.

What sort of field can an AS degree field go into? Well, depends where you want to get into!
I have heard recent expansion of human Resource management in big firms to hire actuarial graduates for the statistical expertise. The typical finance career had always been a popular option between actuarial grads. Actuarial grads have the sufficient level of background to be trained and take on a statistician career.
Everything in insurance from underwriting to marketing put priority on actuarial talents alot as they understand how the mastermind thinks.
Its the skill set that serve to be of great value rather than what we learn.
I myself did Actuarial & Commerce in uni, but along with some decent mathematics & probability elective courses, I am able to now pursue my masters on mathematics research in the field of Statistical models and mathematical genetics.

The knowledge that an actuarial students is equipped with on statistics, is the reason why we can literally go into any field of interest as long as our skill is deemed useful. Of course thats if you are not picky in terms of
high salary, location, company culture, workload. Sometimes if you are to find yourself unable to pick a suitable job, question yourself about the factors, not the degree.

From time to time I do get job offers from Consumer research institutes, data-centres, and some smaller scale finance firms. So I dont see how actuarial/stats grads are having a hard time pulling off a job.


The last question,
Do you need to be good at anything at all? Not really. I suppose each student that applied to do actuarial science would atleast have a decent background for Calculus & preliminary algebras. Of course you will learn useful formulas & approaches along the way. Economics can be picked up in Uni.
the Mathematical reasoning is fairly minimal, and only used in respect to reasoning the proofs, which does not stand for what you usually need to do. Actuarial part I education with their focus on professional technical exams, had made it quite inline with the asian study culture. "practise makes perfect."
Yeap, the use of extensive exams somehow made exam structures & content somewhat predictable. Dont be surprised how by just repetitively focusing on past years can get you a decent grade.
of course some content are best examined on a coursework basis, yet there will be scaling issues. Eventually you will figure out what type of study person you are. But judging by the fact you are on A-levels, you should be fine.
The highest criteria for an actuarial degree would be persistence & patience. The coverage is sometimes so wide that if you want a good time in uni, its hard for you to be good at everything; but if you are persistent with your studies, you will pull it through. Dont get demotivated with weak marks; I have live examples of friends that was
extremely good when they first started, and somehow got stuck in 1 or 2 courses where they failed to score within their expectation and dropped out. Is it the ego or the call for interest? I dont know. Sometimes its just a hard transition, and dont be surprised to find yourself at ease after going through those horrible transitional courses.

I can go on and on about this. But if you have any specific questions.
I am happy to shed you some light before you commit yourself in a career, you are not quite sure what its about.

Is Actuarial Science degree heavier than Finance, Business Management, Investment Banking etc.? I'll learn the basics of other fields too right? What's the percentage of coursework and examination? What University were u in? Did u have a normal social life (sports and entertainment) while studying the degree?
well not really. actuarial science is basically the control of financial risk, or in a general sense, everything to do with the concept of insurance. the actuarial education is to cater the students need to understand all the risk dimensions pertaining insurance. Mathematics & Statistics is the structure, while finance, commerce and also economics are the contents. Conventionally actuarial courses are heavily weighted on exams, thats because it is how the profession works, to obtain membership from these actuarial institutes require you to clear countless papers. But in terms of university courses, it really depends on the sylabus coverage and how the lecturer decide its assessment.
I did all my uni in Australian national. I dont know what you mean by normal social life, or how our standards might differ. I am not one of those top-scorer, so casually I dont feel very loaded all the time. But as the finals are approaching, we do get a little tensed up. Afterall, university is really more than just a conventional school, its about networking, finding true self, and learn to manage things as an independent adult. Stress comes and goes when the workload & quizes pile up. which is perfectly normal. If you feel stressed up all the time, you probably need to re-evaluate your lifestyle and expectations.



Part I education means honours degree? What's part II and part III? I'm quite sure to further my studies in Actuarial Science degree cuz it seems worth it to train my critical thinking and stuffs while studying a wide variety of things(except science). I don't really aim for A LOT of money, i just want a standard high payment which professional people should have

I am not sure about the Actuarial Hons or no-Hons system, since the australian intepretation of Honours is very different from UK (well, literally in UK, most 3yr degree comes with hons.. thats another topic by itself).
Part II & Part III refers to the continuation of the actuarial examination for you to qualify as a certified fellow in the actuarial institute. Part II focuses alot on getting all the technical skills introduced in Part I, and synthesize to a real insurance scenario, pertaining the actuarial control cycles and focuses on the management aspects of actuarial controls. So be prepared for a decent amount of articles & essays. Part III puts on its emphasis on the professionalism conducts, ethics and commercial aspects of the actuarial industry. Here, candidates will also have to pick a specialization route e.g. Life Insurance, General Ins, Investments etc
If you are lucky and extremely talented, you can finish all the parts in 6 years time, thats the minimal time.



So apparently, i can go into any field(except science and accountancy) with an AS degree? It just depends on how i apply myself right. Got it

Frankly speaking, in a world today, degree is probably the very basic qualification to seek for employments.
Not just AS, in fact alot of degrees give you the same flexibility to "go into whatever you like" as long as it is not a highly technical job.
The reason why actuarial grads seems to be able to enter any industry is the fact that an actuarial degree is nothing very different from a classical statistic degree. Except of course, society always deem actuarial degree as a "glorified" statistics/math degree. when in fact, this group of statistician just happen to earn the most due to the profit channels in insurance businesses.
However, using what you learn and apply it to a distinctive new field/area is part of your skill. Some people just dont know how to bring the skill set across different disciplines.



How did they find u out? U applied for a job there or they came to offer u a job when u're still studying in ur uni? I heard some of my friends had a few job offers when they haven't even finish their degree.
Of course, like I said, you always have to establish the contact. Not being too picky, always leave you with lots of opportunities to explore with. From time to time, feel free to take aptitude assessments, and career tests to understand more about yourself that you are not aware of. Its normal that some bright students get headhunted even before graduating. But all these dont come without hard effort.

In AS, is it Stats>Maths>Finance>Econs? How much percentage coverage does each of them has? Btw i'm not really good in Econs but better in Maths and interested in Finance(Don't have a clue whether i'll be doing well in it).

Its a combination of finance, economics and lots of statistics. The math you need is fairly preliminary, just calculus and algebras. I cant really break down the portion for each. But the general guideline is that, not so much of accounting & economics, but a lot of statistics & finance, remember its everything about the fundamental insurance contents.




Can i have ur top5 suggestion for these UK Universities regarding to their AS degree: Uni of Warwick, Uni of Kent, City Uni, Uni of East Anglia, Heriot-Watt, Uni of Leceister, Uni of Southampton, Manchester Uni, Queen's Uni Belfast.
I have no 1st hand experience with any UK Universities. but I can give you some idea of what to look for based on the academic integrity & practicality of their course with respect to real actuarial work.
1. UCL
2. Warwick
3. Kent
4. Heriot-Watt


It is normal to feel anxious and excited with what you want to study in future.
However, I can almost assure you that as time goes by, your perception changes, and you will find yourself at times reevaluating things that you deem of great value. In fact, most of us would find ourselves doing things driven by the dynamic changes of our own choices, as well as the significant element of pure chance.
So dont try too hard laying down a path to be walked 10 years down the road. Focus on the short-term goals, and get the most out of it. Your parents might advice you otherwise due to the type of culture & society one is bought up with. but always remember, your talent does not cater specifically to just one area/industry. Spend some time and explore all your options.

1. Every field can earn a living one way or the other. preference is a matter of personal choice. Nothing very objective when it comes that. Besides, I dont see the connection between picking up wide variety of arts or social science subject being linked up with finance/econ. To be exact, everything is connected in a practical sense, but that doesnt mean one is more favourable to the other in an absolute manner.

2. I know bunch of high profile leaders, academicians, and senior management staffs that are working in a field not directly related to their undergraduate degree. There's no waste if you know what you want, or what you can gain from that program, because every step does take you closer to what you really can/want to do. So, I dont see that as a primary concern, because you would be darn sure, you will either get a feeling that you might be wrong at some point in time as your career progress, or you might just live with it.

3. Yes. It is a valid comparison. It was referred to the act of taking on a professional qualification education that cater to that specific profession, yet end up not practicing that profession. You can quote me bunch of business leaders (like Tony Fernandez) that had ACCA yet did not practise accounting; while I can also give you examples of insurance CEO that hold actuarial qualification yet does not practise as an actuary. These pointless examples still doesnt disregard the truth of that statement.

4. The more you learn, the broader you go, the more exposure you gain. AS is specific in a sense it is objectively catered for all the issues and risk dimensions pertaining the insurance business. Specific in terms of skill set? no. Skills that you gain from an AS degree, can be intepreted as a good blend of problem based solving, engineering, computational, critical and analytical reasoning skills.