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 The Official Subwoofer Thread v2, Everything you need to know about bass!

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SUSHornyAngMoh
post Oct 28 2009, 04:44 PM

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QUOTE(nadky @ Oct 28 2009, 04:15 PM)
To all Elites,

I am setting up my system by using SPL meter. After running the manual setup and adjusting the level trim on the amp side, my front(L&R), centre, rear and sub are now at the respective level, -2.5, -1.5, -1.5, +3.0. All these level are set at 75-78db. I am wondering whether they looks ok?

I had someone to set up my system using SPL meter before I change my front speakers and the level trim on the amp side was front (L&R)~+10.5, centre~+4.5, rear~+8, sub ~+5....these level were set at ~80db.

It seems to me that, the different is huge! So approximately what did you guys get for the level trimming on the amp side?

Thank you.
*
So far I have not done manual setting ( too lazy to measure the spk distance blush.gif ) but base on auddsey set up the spk measurement is very accurate. I only use the spl meter to do some very minor adjustment in the sur spk. smile.gif


Added on October 28, 2009, 4:50 pm
QUOTE(jchong @ Oct 28 2009, 04:41 PM)
Ummm.... I think I understand what you're trying to say.  tongue.gif

Well, Audyssey will compensate for your sub volume. If you set your sub volume very high, then Audyssey sub trim will be set very low (-15 dB is lowest). Conversely, if sub volume very low then Audyssey will boost the sub trim (up to +12 dB max I think). So really it doesn't matter what is your sub volume as long as you don't reach the limits of Audyssey because then you go beyond the ability of Audyssey to compensate.

What you said: "Ok it is like this.........LFE input very large so by right ur sub output will be large but it can't output that very that much as it is being restrict by the vol control ( eg at 30% )" I don't think is correct. The sub vol control is a gain control, i.e. it multiplies the input signal from the AVR. So if you set at 30%, Audyssey will boost the signal (to compensate) so 30% x boosted signal = 50% x lower signal. Like I said earlier Audyssey will compensate so that some balance is achieved.
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Ah! Finally someone do understand what I am writing about! biggrin.gif

U r correct that is what I meant..........Now all this time I assume our sub vol or better know as gain control also act as sort of a master vol control. Correct? hmm.gif

This post has been edited by HornyAngMoh: Oct 28 2009, 04:50 PM
jchong
post Oct 28 2009, 04:53 PM

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QUOTE(nadky @ Oct 28 2009, 04:15 PM)
I am setting up my system by using SPL meter. After running the manual setup and adjusting the level trim on the amp side, my front(L&R), centre, rear and sub are now at the respective level, -2.5, -1.5, -1.5, +3.0. All these level are set at 75-78db. I am wondering whether they looks ok?

I had someone to set up my system using SPL meter before I change my front speakers and the level trim on the amp side was front (L&R)~+10.5, centre~+4.5, rear~+8, sub ~+5....these level were set at ~80db.

It seems to me that, the different is huge! So approximately what did you guys get for the level trimming on the amp side?
You cannot compare your trim settings to other people because their setup is different, e.g. different speaker sensitivity, different distance, different sub vol setting. All this will affect the trims.

Don't know why got such big difference between first SPL setup and your next one. Perhaps your test conditions were different? Different SPL meter?
jchong
post Oct 28 2009, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(HornyAngMoh @ Oct 28 2009, 04:44 PM)
Ah! Finally someone do understand what I am writing about! biggrin.gif

U r correct that is what I meant..........Now all this time I assume our sub vol or better know as gain control also act as sort of a master vol control. Correct?  hmm.gif
Correct. It's not a master vol control in the sense of showing the absolute output. Namely, 30% doesn't mean you can only get 30% of the output. It's a gain or multiplier control, so in the end 30% x 10 = 50% x 6. The second part in that equation is the LFE output signal from AVR (which Audyssey will adjust according to your sub volume).
SUSHornyAngMoh
post Oct 28 2009, 05:05 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Oct 28 2009, 05:02 PM)
Correct. It's not a master vol control in the sense of showing the absolute output. Namely, 30% doesn't mean you can only get 30% of the output. It's a gain or multiplier control, so in the end 30% x 10 = 50% x 6. The second part in that equation is the LFE output signal from AVR (which Audyssey will adjust according to your sub volume).
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Tq very muck! Now I understand what is a 'gain control'. notworthy.gif
jchong
post Oct 28 2009, 05:15 PM

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Eh Horny, just noticed you have the Velo SPL 1200. New addition ah?
SUSHornyAngMoh
post Oct 28 2009, 05:22 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Oct 28 2009, 05:15 PM)
Eh Horny, just noticed you have the Velo SPL 1200. New addition ah?
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Not mine at the moment.........still under 'review'. tongue.gif
anfieldude
post Oct 28 2009, 10:23 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Oct 28 2009, 04:41 PM)
Ummm.... I think I understand what you're trying to say.  tongue.gif

Well, Audyssey will compensate for your sub volume. If you set your sub volume very high, then Audyssey sub trim will be set very low (-15 dB is lowest). Conversely, if sub volume very low then Audyssey will boost the sub trim (up to +12 dB max I think). So really it doesn't matter what is your sub volume as long as you don't reach the limits of Audyssey because then you go beyond the ability of Audyssey to compensate.

What you said: "Ok it is like this.........LFE input very large so by right ur sub output will be large but it can't output that very that much as it is being restrict by the vol control ( eg at 30% )" I don't think is correct. The sub vol control is a gain control, i.e. it multiplies the input signal from the AVR. So if you set at 30%, Audyssey will boost the signal (to compensate) so 30% x boosted signal = 50% x lower signal. Like I said earlier Audyssey will compensate so that some balance is achieved.
*
The reason why u shd not allow Audyssey to max/min out the trims is that you do not know how far from the max the trims actually are. Audyssey will not make adjustments above or below its max/min trim.

ie, if ref level is supposed to be 75dB and now u have set ur sub to 50% vol, and what Audyssey is reading is say 90dB, then Audyssey will only adjust to the max of -12dB since Audyssey tries to level match ur speakers. What that will do is is imbalance the sub level. Another problem that it will cause is that at higher volumes the filters will be also different as the room interacts slightly differently.

So whenever, possible it is better to make sure that Audyssey never sets the trims on any speakers to max/min trims. This way, u know that it is in the middle of the region of the Audyssey correction.
nadky
post Oct 28 2009, 11:05 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Oct 28 2009, 04:53 PM)
You cannot compare your trim settings to other people because their setup is different, e.g. different speaker sensitivity, different distance, different sub vol setting. All this will affect the trims.

Don't know why got such big difference between first SPL setup and your next one. Perhaps your test conditions were different? Different SPL meter?
*
Yes, the SPL meter was different as for the test condition, I am not so familiar. May I know what should be the normal test condition to be used in SPL meter?
jchong
post Oct 29 2009, 11:23 AM

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QUOTE(nadky @ Oct 28 2009, 11:05 PM)
Yes, the SPL meter was different as for the test condition, I am not so familiar. May I know what should be the normal test condition to be used in SPL meter?
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When I say test conditions, it means all the parameters involved, e.g. was your setup the same? I think you said you changed some speakers (so this changes the test conditions). Was the SPL meter in the same position? Was the SPL meter hand held or tripod mounted? Was the target the same - one test you said target was 80 dB and another was 75 dB?

Basically to make two tests comparable, everything should be kept the same.
TrynRex
post Oct 30 2009, 11:55 AM

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Hi Guys,

Need help in choosing budget subwoofer. I have an open living hall + dining of 14' x 35' x 10'H.

I am looking now at Klipsch RW-10D, Klipsch Sub12 and Velodyne CHT-10Q/R. Please write some Pro's and Con's about both of this. Budget about RM2k.

PS: How much is Velo CHT-10Q/R? (CHT-12Q about RM2.8k and guess 10Q/R should be abt RM2k)

Opinion is much appreciated.
jchong
post Oct 30 2009, 12:53 PM

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Hi. Quite a large area you have there. Depending on how you like your bass, 10" sub might not be enough. But this will depend on your taste, for example I think horray has the CHT-10Q (he thought the 12Q was too much for his living hall).

Anyway, CHT-R series has been discontinued (replaced by CHT-Q), maybe some dealers have old stock. CHT-10Q about 2.2-2.3k I think. Main attraction of the Q series is the Auto EQ feature and remote control.
TrynRex
post Oct 31 2009, 10:30 PM

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QUOTE(jchong @ Oct 30 2009, 12:53 PM)
Hi. Quite a large area you have there. Depending on how you like your bass, 10" sub might not be enough. But this will depend on your taste, for example I think horray has the CHT-10Q (he thought the 12Q was too much for his living hall).

Anyway, CHT-R series has been discontinued (replaced by CHT-Q), maybe some dealers have old stock. CHT-10Q about 2.2-2.3k I think. Main attraction of the Q series is the Auto EQ feature and remote control.
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Yeah.... I've quite a big area. That's why i need more inputs about subs selection as dun wan to regret later. CHT-12Q is a bit out of my budget. 10 incher maybe too small but cannot judge yet as never test it.

Klipsch Sub12 have good reviews, inexpensive and 'loud'. That's why I am looking into it now. But dunno how is the SQ compare to others (not comparint to SVS as I know SVS is good but expensive though).

Input please....... 'danke schon'.
arremie
post Nov 1 2009, 02:48 AM

hmm...
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Someone just audition my 10R and he mentioned Velo has more impact than Klipsch Sub12 (which he just auditioned). My hall also open to dining about 20' x 40'. So you must audition if you have the chance and see which one you like more.
mpyw
post Nov 2 2009, 08:11 AM

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QUOTE(arremie @ Nov 1 2009, 02:48 AM)
Someone just audition my 10R and he mentioned Velo has more impact than Klipsch Sub12 (which he just auditioned). My hall also open to dining about 20' x 40'. So you must audition if you have the chance and see which one you like more.
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hmm....13Ultra coming hmm.gif tongue.gif
zerorulez
post Nov 2 2009, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(mpyw @ Nov 2 2009, 08:11 AM)
hmm....13Ultra coming  hmm.gif  tongue.gif
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remy dun need another coffee table... tongue.gif
ar188
post Nov 2 2009, 02:59 PM

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QUOTE(zerorulez @ Nov 2 2009, 01:56 PM)
remy dun need another coffee table... tongue.gif
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then Roman Pillar ok? PC type.. biggrin.gif
arremie
post Nov 2 2009, 05:29 PM

hmm...
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hmm I didn't think I mention any coffee table or roman pillar in my previous post whistling.gif
jchong
post Nov 2 2009, 05:41 PM

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QUOTE(arremie @ Nov 2 2009, 05:29 PM)
hmm I didn't think I mention any coffee table or roman pillar in my previous post whistling.gif
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People here can read between the lines mah. Especially when you keep whistling.gif ha...ha...
ar188
post Nov 2 2009, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(arremie @ Nov 2 2009, 05:29 PM)
hmm I didn't think I mention any coffee table or roman pillar in my previous post whistling.gif
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but I wasn't replying to your post... whistling.gif
zerorulez
post Nov 3 2009, 11:56 AM

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QUOTE(ar188 @ Nov 2 2009, 02:59 PM)
then Roman Pillar ok? PC type..  biggrin.gif
*
DBKL tong sampah biggrin.gif


Added on November 3, 2009, 11:58 am
QUOTE(arremie @ Nov 2 2009, 05:29 PM)
hmm I didn't think I mention any coffee table or roman pillar in my previous post whistling.gif
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yawn.gif

This post has been edited by zerorulez: Nov 3 2009, 11:58 AM

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