this is an awesome idea

agreed. perhaps the moderators can set up a special forum or chatbox which enables users to send in their pings and speedtests. i hope the moderators can come up with that soon, so that all the users can be informed to start saving their screenshots etc etc, as all of u know, TM cannot be trusted and they might just make the connections tip-top on the discussion day. i really hope that the discussion event will happen and lowyat.net is able to confirm that they can come up with something stated above quickly so that users can start collecting data and presenting it on discussion day.

p.s if TM is monitoring this, they will know that that day will be the end of them.

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 8 2009, 09:38 PM

one more thing, even if we can't be there in person, we can also help prepare questions for them too

like why is the region affected if they are "upgrading" one area
....etc

this thread needs more attention from the higher up. perhaps it would do if you post this in section main site / forum feedback and helpdesk ?

and perhaps a cover story at the front page of lowyat.net would help ? moderator some help pls ?

This post has been edited by liquidsny: May 9 2009, 05:52 AM

I dun think they can be trusted since they can ignore the whole countries complaints and change their T&C " sesuka hati " to protect themself when they cant get something done . This promise they made mayb just another plan to delay whatever they try to fix or just to temp " layan " ur complaint cos they got the power , the power of monopolisation , u can either take it or leave it why i wanna bargain with u ?

If they really take it serious why end of month ? This is a serious problem that's affecting the whole country and should be solve asap . So the meeting was scheduled at the end of this month ? Then after meeting they " promise " to solve the connection problem " asap " ? 1 more month ? I bet that's what they gonna say so they bought another 2 month just to agree to meet with u .

I dun think we can do anything about this as the only solution lies in government's hands . Competion = improvement and better service . No competition = eat or die .

Frankly say i'm tired of screamyx shit and the way they handle things is really unproffesional and irresponsible . Frequent dc , unstable and slow connectivity , stupid CS , technician that's always " busy " , change of T&C sesuka hati and " faulty cable " everymonth ..... etc . What can u expect from their TOP when u meet them ?

This post has been edited by siukeong7888: May 9 2009, 09:10 AM

Appreciated your suggestion.

As per for this ones, i think it would be more appropriate to let TMNET decides it. However, which press is more appropriate? Any suggestion?

I'm collecting suggestion here too and will send an email to MCMC and PMO's Complaint Bureau to inform them regarding about TMNET's decision to put up such discussion.

-edit-deleted-



This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 9 2009, 10:26 PM

Vanue?

This post has been edited by flodder: May 9 2009, 10:17 AM

8TV, NTV7, TV3 and RTM. U must tell them, we the rakyat see TM as a Government Linked Company (GLC). Currently we are paying RM88/99 for speeds worst than dail up. When a major GLC company is not delivering what it promised, the rakyat will look at the government for help, but we found out that the government is not doing anything and is not even aware of the situations down here sometimes, which is totally againts najib's 1malaysia's policy, which is concentrate on the rakyat 1st. If the government does not take steps to tackle this issue, it can be said that Barisan National will not bring more votes from the younger generation and alike. U must tell them that, slap them on their face, make them wake up.

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 9 2009, 10:25 AM

Thanks alot andrew9292.

What you have mentioned is very very similar to what i've gone through. I'll add up some extra information on the inter-link thingy that TMNET claims.

1. TMNET said or claims that TM's role is to provide internet access which is true. and will not responsible for Inter-ISP connectivity and international link which is true also. I agreed with them. BUT, the thing based on the condition is as below and the below condition is their full responsibilities,
- Has TMNET subscribed to "connect" with the "right bandwidth" which having sufficient bandwidth for connectivity from local to international link or vice versa?

2. I had the one of the T1 ISP the Cogent Co engineer confirmed on one of the issue, that the bottleneck is WITHIN TMNET's network infrastructure and there's nothing much they can do. Again, this is TMNET's full responsibilities. It simply because the bottleneck / congestion is happening within their network and yet until today, "Is the bottleneck happen within you network?" question, has not been answered and is avoided till today.

Based on these statement, all related communication emails are still in my Gmail. I would love to present it during the session.

There're a few things i plan to stress and to get a ETR (estimated time of resolution) and solid action from TMNET or MCMC.

- Browsing through International Sites.
- Network infrastructure (bottleneck issue)
- TMNET's call center and Field Operation competency
- Trace Route which seems to be "further blocked", (i've double-check with network engineers in US who's our counter part, the statement they made "there's no reason they should disable the trace route" and he agreed that unless the ISP has something to hide from us.
- TMNET's Best Effort Policy which TMNET's staff use as a "shield" whenever we drill to the root of the issues.


Should there be any category that we need to have TMNET sort it out. Let's get it organized and categorized and please kindly list here or pm me then i'll prepare accordingly for the discussion.

---

Added on May 9, 2009, 10:31 amHi thxxht,

I doubt i'll be able to put it up live on web, but if permitted, i hope we can get somebody record the whole session on voice or video for later updates to public.

This post has been edited by webdesignempire: May 9 2009, 10:31 AM

cool man even cogent Co engineer also come out...
as a streamyx user i feel so thank full for u ts..

Malaysia ISPs always use better effort as 'explanation', but results from their best effort are so bad that services are unreliable and/or unusable. In addition, cost of broadband in Malaysia is not low (absolute and relative to quality of services)

I've been involved in similar discussions between TIME/MCMC/CFM and myself.

Feel free to contact me if you need any help/information.

That would a very useful information. Some part of it, we should let it "roll" by itself because once this session is held. There'll surely be second chapter. We trying to not to touch too much of the political matters, instead, we only emphasizing and push TMNET for a solution to end such lousy services.

Basically, most of us, we don't care what's the relationship between TM and other parties. All and what we want is to get what we paid for, and get on with our life. For example, i work as web developer. A bad ISP services cost me a nuke in overhead cost as i have to help my customers repeatedly due to the endless repeating issues caused by TMNET. In short, we are paying alot more when calling 1300, time wasted (time = money & life on earth), worst is, your reputation by investing in reliable IDC gone to the drain.

This is a one way ticket that will only reach the final destination whereby solution is to be provided on time. In the end, if all of us including the authorities found TMNET is only fit in providing voice services nationwide, and so be it, let TM continue with the voice service empire and leave the data services for others; the WIRED broadband services market should be open wide for other serious players.

Again, a lone ranger with this bit of strength, cannot do much. I sincerely call for the assistance and cooperation from you guys in making a stable and reliable broadband services a reality.

Thanks alot guys.

---

Added on May 9, 2009, 11:05 amGood stuff biatch0,

I think we need a method to organize and categorized the opinions/issues so that we could put it into a list for the discussion. And i intended to pre-compile a copy of it and have it sent to MCMC and PMO's Complaint Bureau for their records and filing.

Hope you could suggest us some method that will help get things organized so that we will be able to have more effective communication mainly with MCMC and PMO's Complaint Bureau should they also being invited.

Thanks man.

This post has been edited by webdesignempire: May 9 2009, 11:05 AM

I guess that had covered a lot of aspects...but i have a few questions to add if u don't mind.

1.The Cogent CO engineer found out that the bottleneck is WITHIN TM. The thing is, is the bottleneck done on purpose or is it because of an overwhelming amount of users? All of sudden from Mid-March or so our internet started to crawl and they issued the news that they were having "circuit faults?" on SMW3 cable. Since then it appears that our connection never improved even though they claimed the circuit fault was fixed,

This leaves me to wonder if there really is a fault with the cable. And i also dont believe all of a sudden in mid-March perhaps 1 Million users signed up for streamyx and bottleneck its network until now? Just wondering if we are looking at the right thing to complain.

2.I have strong reasons to believe that TM has a technology to control the routing/speed on a user-to-user or area-to-area basis, as after i complained to MCMC and PMO, it seems that my connection is getting back it's FULL speed on the SAME IP address. It was a huge change from that morning(slow) to evening(fast) on the same IP.

However this is not important, just that i have prove of the connection change which can be brought up later.

3. Best Effort and Fair Usage Policy need to be rewritten and MCMC has to put guidelines on those 2 policies. Best Effort? It seems like they are not even putting any effort. Fair Usage Policy? Fair to who? All of us are getting dial up speeds when we pay nearly a hundred a month, some even pay more. That has to be done so that we can achieve a long-term resolution to our crisis.

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 9 2009, 11:15 AM

@webdesignempire
Why don't you invite sinchiew in this discussion?

I am not sure this really can use or not since I only manage to find this contact info
This actually is for people to recommend Chinese Blog but no harm to try and I am sure they will give some response
cyberworld@sinchiew.com.my
016-2222315

The event overview was the Cogent Co engineer confirmed the location of the bottleneck is due to the troubleshooting that i started to do first (we all know trying our best to solve the problems on our side is more effective). I couldn't trace from my side to our IDC (Internet Data Center), so i use another traceroute software finally pick up every single ip and the readings while having the IDC engineer trace from their ends and work with the Cogent Co engineers. The "uplink" and "download link" has route through different routing as eg, from PJ section 17 you go to Sunway using Federal Highway, and back to PJ using LDP via SS2. Usually, the "download link" will be having high traffic.

Now, we all know that TMNET has different customer base / group / classification namely "the normal user" who use dynamic IP and paying 66 / 88 bucks / month. And others who are fixed IP, IDSL and etc... In one of the email replied by the BMC department, let me show you the funny explanation that doesn't make sense and furthermore, the BMC manager was taking a shortcut by troubleshooting at his preferred location instead of come to my office. The funny things is, whenever we are facing slow browsing, i call their call center, they got no packet loss, connection is good. But on our side, the case is different and that time we were having 40-50% packet loss.

I've removed the identifiable information (in respect to others privacy). You have a look at the email, take a while guess, and you'll know what i mean. Note: For those who have not gone through such process might not know what's happening in this event, you may skip this portion.

Here's the emails.
===========
Good day.

Dear Sir and all..

Please be informed that we normally look into a very specific technical issue. Based on our understanding from the messages, the performance of the service is low. This kind of issue is catagorised as follows :

1) performance of the connectivity to all web / Domestic site
2) performance of the connectivity to International site


Based on the below email (before this) we have concentrated to 02 streamyx account given to us.

- xxx@streamyx
- xxx@streamyx

Basically the above are the source (source of the request packet) and I was make known that there is 01 international destination has been used for the test.

== destination : xxx.xxx.81.229

Both of the account have been tested from our site and there is no high latency or packet loss that may contribute to the said problem.

Anyway should we want to check about the connectivity to the Internatinal website , a destination can be used as benchmark to identify whether the existing performnace is acceptable or not , is there anything TM can do to improve the connectivity. For example, www.yahoo.com is used by many users to test the connectivity to US, www.google.co.uk for UK and so on.

Please also be informed that we have tried to come out with the possible return trace from the above IP given to us - xxx.xxx.81.229.

The result as follows :
Query: trace
Addr: 124.13.63.100

trace 124.13.63.100 (currently xxx@streamyx is connected)

Type escape sequence to abort.
Tracing the route to 124.13.63.100

1 gi10-0.224.core01.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com (66.250.4.5) 4 msec 0 msec 0 msec
2 te4-2.ccr02.lax01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.1.34) 4 msec 4 msec 0 msec
3 te7-3.ccr02.sjc01.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.2.150) 16 msec 12 msec 12 msec
4 te3-4.mpd01.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.6.102) 12 msec 16 msec 12 msec
5 telecommalaysia.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.12.2) 328 msec 328 msec 324 msec
6 58.27.106.209 324 msec 324 msec 324 msec
7 58.27.103.122 312 msec 308 msec 308 msec
8 58.27.103.33 312 msec 308 msec 312 msec
The above is the best option for the return trace as of today 6.00.pm (malaysian Time).Should we see the result closely, the max latency during return trace to TM (domestic) site is averaging at 350ms which is almost equal to another US benchmark site such as www.yahoo.compls find the below : Pinging www.yahoo-ht3.akadns.net [209.131.36.158] with 32 bytes of data:Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=300ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=359ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=380ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=403ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=426ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=449ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=474ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=291ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=313ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=336ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=300ms TTL=55Reply from 209.131.36.158: bytes=32 time=382ms TTL=55Ping statistics for 209.131.36.158: Packets: Sent = 12, Received = 12, Lost = 0 (0% loss),Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: Minimum = 291ms, Maximum = 474ms, Average = 367ms

The above result may differ from time to time because dynamic ip user will have different ip address every timenew PPP session is establish. That is why some users may have different experience. Anyway, fixed IP address usersmay have better opportunity to gain better connectivity.(depends on the prefered destination).Another issue raised was on email service used by customers. I would appreciate if you could furnish more info on thecomplainant. We will try to, at least isolate the issue and propose an alternative to minimize the impact tocustomer end.1) Streamyx login ID 2) email server name/IP/webserver/pop mail3) Technical support (from cust site)Thanks


Mohamad Faisal b Azizan
Broadband Management Centre,IPNOC
TM Wholesale
TM Bhd

Your best bet is to do a tracert during afternoon. @ these time, is where the lines are in worst condition.

I found out that plenty of time, if u ping the destination is 400+ms. About half of it is within TMnet network. There is really something wrong within TMnet routing.


Another issue is there is a huge different of line quality between the IP ranges. Some has ridiculous high ping time, some have low bandwidth, while some can get as good as it can.


I would what u guys to highlight above issues.

This post has been edited by billytong: May 9 2009, 11:44 AM

Quoting parts of the email

----Me: Our site? (side) How can they do a test for an account from their side, doesnt make sense. If they can, why the results differ? (Sorry i'm not an expert in their systems)

----Me: As far as i know destination IP 58.27.103.33 is a local destination and pings to 58.27.103.33 should not exceed 25ms as a maximum, at the results we can see that is was at 308ms. TM is comparing it to www.yahoo.com, which is an international located site. Honestly should i laugh or cry to that?

Is he even qualified? If so, i believe many of us in LYN are even more qualified to work in TM.

Strangely as of today, some users in certain areas can browse web when other users are reporting in streamyx slowdown thread that they cant even access local content

This post has been edited by andrew9292: May 9 2009, 01:24 PM

, you got it... So, we'll prepare for discussion, get them get things done so that we can continue with our life. Help spread the words...

Thanks man.