Trading paypal is inherently unsafe. Once funds are sent, they can be reversed, at the recipient's expense. This, together with "no-shows", have caused several members to lose their money to conmen recently. The problem is compounded by the fact that nobody would "COD" for paypal.

We are considering stopping all paypal funds trading in LYN. Let's discuss:

1) If paypal funds trading were to continue, how do we ensure security for traders?
2) If paypal funds trading is to be removed, what alternatives are there for people who need to buy/sell paypal funds?

I agree the trading to be stop.

There is no good support from our local law for any PayPal issue. User at his own risk.

I also can see there is more and more PayPal trading end up with dispute now day. This is not good for LYN reputation.

PayPal transaction is done online, even if COD and seller show the transaction being made, seller still can report to PayPal to reverse the fund after buyer left.

This post has been edited by nordingh: Apr 14 2009, 02:11 PM

my thought would be


1) there's no way to secure it because all trading is done on PayPal itself. whether or not the supposed buyer returns the funds in the other currency is really beyond our control.

there's 2 ways of transaction.

a) PP fund transferred first, then actual funds transferred.
b) actual funds transferred first, then PP funds transferred. which is same as buying goods from people.


2) personally i think this part should be the concern of the buyer and seller and not LYN, unless LYN intends to be a medium of interaction of PayPal users.

nowadays with PayPal being able to be credited to Debit cards, and Debit cards being widely available - I don't see the need of selling off funds already, the conversion rate of PayPal to cards is still higher than buy/sell.

the thing that makes people BUY PP funds is people tend to offer selling at lower exchange rate. eg 3.3 instead of 3.6. (using USD)

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the safest way is probably buyer and seller meet up at CC. buyer bring RM, seller bring notebook or whatever. do the transaction right there with both witness-ing.

paypal shud be stop in here..
cox too many of them try 2 con forumer by selling it...
i think it shud be stop immediately...
dun give them a chance 2 cheat/con ppl here...

Well, if Pay Pal sales were to stop, where would the members get their paypal funds? On some other forum maybe? IMHO, I strongly disagree on stopping paypal in LYF.
As what was stated on the LYF policy, any trades that occurs in LYF is strictly personal and LYF is not held responsible in any case of fraud. Does anyone here think that by stopping PayPal trading would actually help in reducing the number of con-cases? No. There will always be people trying to rip somebody else off in some other way.
As what was quoted by Goldfries, meeting up is not deemed a solution as well since Paypal has the right to freeze your account maybe 2-3 days later. What happens then if the seller then decides to MIA?
What we actually need now is a respectable and responsible seller/buyer.
I would suggest that LYF admin to give credit or find some way or another to give a recognition say "Verified PayPal Trader" on their avatar. Just like the title "safe trader"
What do you say?

This post has been edited by wookp: Apr 14 2009, 04:03 PM

I would suggest that the staff here to create a list of safe paypal fund seller; or maybe provide a special tag for trusted paypal merchant.

There's another thing that I would like to suggest, which is to add a huge sign on each PayPal related topic with "Beware! LYF will not be held responsible for PayPal frauds. To see the list of trusted LYF PayPal traders, click here"

I already warned that trading Paypal on forums like this is against the rules of Ministry of Finance as this requires a "License" for doing such trades with foreign currency like USD or GBP or AUD..

The moderators and admins ignored my emails earlier. Now atleast wake up and ban this activity to avoid legal issues in future.

Let's bring harmony and peace here rather than conman issues..

at least it's a whole lot safer than seeing your money go off. think of it as CODing.

if you took note of my sentence, i said "safest way" - i did not in any way say it was a solution.



and how far can we maintain a safe trading before a person run away with it?

all it takes is a few genuine trade, then after that commit the "robbery"

here's another case....

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthre...1993344&page=17

Will it help if the mod ask for a photocopy of identification card for whoever applying for the so called "safe paypal merchant" tag?

Oh...Sorry...Eyes a bit blur...Sorry taiko Goldfries...
The link you provided is very informative and that's why normally I will trade IF:
1. I have traded with him/her before
2. The bank acc and paypal acc must be the same name
3. He/She must provide me his/her contact number and sometimes I/C for newbies.

Its no different with trading other stuffs than trading paypal...ppl buy stuffs via postage and the seller dont post item so they get conned just like paypal

If ppl are dumb enough to believe ppl selling at super low rate or buying from newbie account, what stops them from buying other stuffs and get conned as well?

Futhermore if they cant get paypal from here, they go to lelong.com or ebay.com or mudah.com.my and get conned too, so whats the difference?

source : https://www.paypal.com/my/cgi-bin/webscr?cm...use/index_frame

Bro, if buy stuff, still can opt for COD, check/test the item before pay. But for PayPal, meet, COD or bank transfer to pay seller, PayPal fund still done electronically. There is some different there.

Buyer can go to lelong, ebay or mudah to buy PayPal fund, that for sure will happen. 3 place is not as worst as got 4 place for conmen to strike.

Prevention is Better Than Cure.

the difference is those 3 are trading sites but LYN is a forum.

and i think those 3 actually have better security for buyer / seller protection.

Also, to reduce the number of stupid dispute generally.

Yes, we have paypal traders here who have no capital/not enough capital, but doing paypal trading like they are doing permanent business with it.

When something happens(in this case, reversal/fund held/etc), they easily wash their hands up with excuses. Take xx offer instead of full refund and etc which I think is pretty ridiculous.

@wacky

It's not all about stopping paypal. It's about stopping the traders which always causes disputes esp. here in LYN. Although there's measure being taken behind the scene to prevent these, but it still happens.

We just can't monitor all of the paypal thread itself in LYN. Use the filter tag and check how many active thread are there. And a lot of this traders(buyers) always dare to risk with new members(seller) as well. Some barely 1 month old and have successful trading list worth hundreds. If not mistaken, there's 1 thread in dispute section itself, 2 members get conned for ~4k by 1 member itself. See the brighter point, if they want to con, find other place. 4k with 2 members itself is a large sum. Members willing to trade with these members just for the cheaper 30cent rate? I see this is pretty ridiculous really. If there's something need to be done, it's about educating these buyer to trade safely. Internet fraud have come to a point that we cannot do nothing. If there's way to educate and stop fraud, why don't we try that? At least it is better than doing nothing and watching them getting freely, flashing their moolah and get free. Also remember, our own police is not really as efficient as other countries.

I din really exposed to those sites. mind to eleborate more on what u mean by better security?

i haven't try mudah either but if you used Lelong or Ebay before, you'll see that registration requires more details than a typical LYN account where you can create duplicates every now and then.

the problem with PayPal buy / sell is that it is of higher risk compared to buying goods which you can actually COD and even if the product is of bad state, there's always warranty (if any).

Only lelong have option to become a verify seller/buyer by providing them a copy of business registration, mykad and other bills header.

Ebay, to become seller, must verify using CC but still can cheat by using some prepaid Debit Card.

Mudah, just simple registration only during posting. Need only valid email address to verify. That why I never bought or sell at mudah.

i hav different opinion... instead of stop selling paypal, its better to allow only ONE seller to do transaction here... da seller should be self pick by LYN authorities

reason: -its easy to monitor da seller
-eliminate chances of getting con