PJUsa,
For the rest of the plans which you requested Info ie. hongleong's, AM's.etc I feel it is not necessary. What is your take on plans offered by these bank's subsidiaries? I never consider buying any insurance products offered by these players..except fire insurance which usually imposed/defaulted by the mortgage.

well i have only seen the RHB plan and it was not impressive. i have rejected many medical plans from the even entering the list as they are simply put more a joke than an insurance. i even found one seriously offering a medical insurance with an annual limit of 5k. forgot which bank but it made me laugh.

chances are the others are equally bad. even some GI products are not really worth much.

and for what it's worth: i dont let the banks pressure me into taking their fire insurance. they only want it for sideincome. i choose my own insurance against the banks will (RHB). they cant force you to use theirs they have to give you a choice. and if your nego power is good they will do so anyway. i go direct and cash the comission myself

Pacific has a stand-alone 36CI plan..Much lower premium for lady age ie 36-45 compares to AIG's.

thanks! makes two plans now. i got the AIA plan - its the same as insuranceonline.my. AIA max. 2 policies per insured i.e. max cover 300k. will do a comparison per 1k insured for the two.

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Added on August 4, 2009, 5:44 pmi did a comparison between the AIA and the pacific plan. AIA offers the cheapest rate per 1k insured througout all plans UNLESS you are a female non-smoking. in that case pacific is offering the best rate.

this is true for a cover from age 1-65 as well as for 10-65, 20-65, 30-65, 40-65, 50-65, 60-65. pacific covers longer though.

This post has been edited by PJusa: Aug 4 2009, 05:44 PM

may i know what is AIA GI ?

AIA GI - AIA General Insurance

some h&s plans sold in bank are actually the same as insurance companies, only minus the commissions paid to the agency distribution channel, that way, you got the same plan (cover the same risk) with cheaper price.

But MOST of those plans are NOT 'exact' and have 'tricks' inside ...

the trend is also transfer the commission to the bank officer ..

about my own search for top up, its still a confusing and frustrating journey ... I was happy with AXA value, then impressed with ING's feature ... then an Allianz agent shared his bad claim experience on stand alone plans ...

despite how much you know sometimes it is just hard to get over the emotion part ....

cheer

oh thats mean u referring to AIA critical illness shield?
ok ok i thought AIA got new product

mtsen,

bad claims experience in what sense? i have never had any bad experiences before. only once the insurance mistook the hospital invoice for a new bill and asked me to submit further info. dunno why damansara send invoice to them that looked like second bill. most things were paid in full only one time some deduction was made which i asked them about and then they reversed the deduction. i think claims is about beeing sure of your rights also - or you use the agent to do lah. i think claims will be same for GI and life. both wont be happy to pay but will do as per cover - latest if you push axa so far has always been very very attentive - even emails get answered professionally withing an hour or two during business hours.

mtsen,
care to share which feature(s) of ING's medcard impress you ?

To me, their cashless card is expensive but I guess it is due to 'as charge' feature in their cancer/kidney outpatient claims, and Co-Insurance of RM50 per admission is quite good, provided they don't impose the 20%-80% co-ins when you have to upgrade your room.

And also, there is an alteration term in their contract which you should vary of :

Alterations
The Company reserves the right to amend the terms and provisions of this Policy by giving 30 days’ prior notice in writing by ordinary post to the Policy Owner’s last known address in the Company’s records, and such amendment will be applicable from the next renewal of this Policy. No alteration or endorsement to this Policy shall be valid unless authorised by the Company and such approval is endorsed thereon.

Hope to hear your comments soon.

as in he was promoting stand alone plans in the past but when shit happens, some claims didn't go through smoothly and all his friends cursed at him. While the whole life plan with rider's claims usually went through smoothly. So now he only promote rider H&S .... Even if what he said is true, it only applies to his company I think

logically I know he is getting more commission by recommending a whole life plan / investment link, but emotionallly I cann't help to wonder if I may face claim issues in future, afterall, this is my top up plan, ie not my first and fundamental plan.

numbertwo,

i guess 20/80 still applies. not entirely sure though. amendmend clause is almost always present but only applies to the portfolio. also amendmend is better than alteration

mtsen,

only reason why such a thing would occur is due to different covers. allianz is known for expensive policies in europe but also for beeing a very good paymaster.

the part about the comission is however very very true. dont want to imply anything but if i would be an agent i would tend to recommend what is most profitable for me and not just was is best for you.

what are you cheering about ? if serious PM me some discount ... hee hee hee

Actually all along I didn't like H&S plans mainly because of the limits they put on kidney and cancer.

PJusa shared her consolidated H&S plans with me, so i straight away check out which plans offers NO LIMIT on kidney and cancer outpatient. Then I further analyse value by dividing premium with the annual limit. then I found ING provides the best value for money ( ie. lowest premium per higher annual limit).

This surprises me because I have a close friend who runs quite a successful ING agency, he told me many years ago his ING plan was the best but ofcourse i didn't believe any 'agent' for no reason/support. So by now finding out my choice could be ING means I have wasted 3-5 years not following a friend's advice ....

good point about the alterations, but as I have shared with PJusa in PMs, I didn't really expect any insurer to pay my claims more than 2x of my annual limit. When its time to die, I should just die ( but actually I already have plans what to do when I know i will die

On the other hand, I am betting if my 'powerful' ING agency manager value me as much as I 'value' him, perhaps he can help through my tough time ...

but still thanks, I didn't realize about this term, I will ask if this is common in the industry or specific to ING.

Hi PJusa,

I wouldn't be 'worry' so much if I could find the word 'portfolio' in the contract. Most other contracts or brochures print this word '....portfolio basis' clearly so lesser the worries.

So, if mtsen could find out from his ING friend and get some clarification , that would be 'nice'!

And you mentioned

...this is quite the opposite to what I've calculated, see below...

Male
Co. Product Name Coverage Coverage Premium Average Cover /
/ Code (RM) p.a Lifetime Ttl : (38-45) yrly Prem RM
ING IMPlus (Cashless) 150000 450000 9590.00 1198.75 125.13
ING IMPlus (non-Cashless) 150000 450000 7156.00 894.50 167.69

Sorry , the age band (38-45) is solely for my own calculation purpose....

I don't know how to format this msg box nicely...but the figure 9590.00 is total premium paid from age 38-45. RM1198.75 is the average yearly premium and lastly the figure 125.13=annual limit(RM150,000) / Average yearly premium(RM1198.75). It is something like I get RM125.13 coverage for every ringgit I paid to the insurance co. This coverage is really low compare to those that are offered by GI ie TM or AXA. So, I'm not sure why/how did you get the 'lowest premium per higher annual limit'.. care to share so that I know I may have to change my 'method'... Thanks.

This post has been edited by numbertwo: Aug 5 2009, 10:54 PM

If I were the agent, I would still recommend whats best for you NO MATTER how little I earn, so that my client base WILL become a PASSIVE income and NOT just a ONE TIME earning only.

passive income keeps coming in future with less effort while active income may not.

The key difference between an ever lasting business vs. a job like self employment is whether one goes for passive income or just an active and temporary one ...

Hope to have more 21st century agents ASAP... I have a hunch that victorbarbosa may be one, lets just hope he didn't get swallow by money pressure

mtsen,

i just dont have that much of high hopes in agents that depend upon a GI and a life insurance to pay. in that situation i would optimize and not purely based upon the client. of course you would have to be subtle there. but i dont want to drift into ethics here. just saying it's in (most ppls) human nature to put oneself before others.

anyway you mentioned ING offers better bang for buck spend. i compared the 100k plans from AXA and ING purely based on annual limit. at age 30 for a male avg. cost per 1k insured annual limit is 4,2400 for axa and 7,5500 ING. if you look at from birth to age 70 to compare the avg. cost per 1k insured is 7,6551 axa vs. 9,4166 ing. (edit: posted cost per RM cover by accident)


if you base your decision on the dialysis/cancer cover you might want to get the cheapest comprehensive plan and top it up with a generous "top-up" plan. havent calculated this but it could very well be cheaper if you choose plans carefully.


This post has been edited by PJusa: Aug 5 2009, 11:48 PM

What I have is RM 979 covering RM 150k by ING MediPlus, for for every ringgit I pay, I am insured with RM153.22

the only other plan that also have no limit on kidney/cancer/transplant is Allianz Care Individual, they thave RM 1039 covering 125k, insured RM120.31 per ringgit.

I am not sure about the technique of averaging the premiums, on stand alone plans, future premium can change. when i reach next age bench, I can just revise to find a better plan by then, afterall, that is the good point to adopt a stand alone plan.

TM and AXA are cheaper but they have limits on surgical, kidney/cancer outpatient etc.

sorry I am a bit lost, so is AXA is the 'cheapest' option, which one is 'generous top up' ?

true enough you may switch to a better plan in the next age band but do not forget that once illness strikes, you will find exclusion or loading from the new insurance company that you plan to switch in future. So, I would rather see their average 10 yrs premium over the yearly limit to judge better as i want to stick to the chosen one as long as the plan 'alive'. And you are right that future premium can change, so even if you use the existing (age of next birthdate) to calc you can't guarantee that there won't be a change next year too.

Nevertheless, keep hunting.


edited : oh btw..if you have not already known, TM has unlimited cancer treatment and a 'not too bad' yearly limit on kidney dialysis..

This post has been edited by numbertwo: Aug 6 2009, 09:01 AM

Thank you for the nice words mtsen. Really appreciate that.

To all of you guys and gals, don't "hunt" for so long. You might need them earlier than you think.

The best medical plan is not deterimine by how cheap it is, but the value it brings. If you are hospitalised, I'm sure you are willing to pay any amount to cover your hospital bill.

Choose one you are comfortable with. I'm sure there is no such thing as "Best Plan" in town. It just doesn't exist and we do not know what kind of illness that will strike us.