PJusa, after reading some of your posts, I find that you are really knowledgeable.

Sadly, that is not possible.(for 1k life + 500k CI).

I never really heard of anyone getting coverage from overseas, as it's hard to do "calculation" for mortality in other countries. I guessed you found a better deal out there and go ahead with it.

Vitorbarbosa,

we used to be covered entirely abroad but premiums dont always work out in out favour. my CI alternative is the result of a brief period in europe. under european law they cant cancel this insurance even if afterwards you move elsewhere. since the original cover was worldwide (and not just EU as normal) we are quite lucky.

for medical insurance its actually easy - even if your malayisan. the only problem is that those plans dont really account for the low low healthcare costs here so the premium seems often prohibitively high esp. in old age.

thanks for the info btw. i figured that i wont be able to trick the insurer that easily

mtsen,

i am surprised by your 40% margin. as far as i know there is no higher agent margin than 25% - maybe Vitorbarbosa can elaborate. i always understood that for general insurance the comission is 10 (car), 15 (for example houseowner/-holder, H&S(?)) or 25% (for example PA) depending on the product. if my information on those comissions is wrong, please correct me. if i negotiate with wrong numbers then i am not squeezing my agents hard enough hehe.

AIG Home Assurance does offer standalone CI coverage, up to max of 150K only though.

numbertwo,

thanks for the tip. maybe we should start and compile a list of healthcare plans (guranteed / non guaranteed) and top up healthcare plans as well as stand alone CI along with benefits and premiums for all of us to compare. this would be very valuable to any concerned party since it offers unbiased information.

i will check the CI from AIG out - but arent they linked with AIA?

AIG Home Assurance? Means coming with a MRTA? And you called that standalone? Correct me if I'm wrong. I really want to buy one if there is.

PJusa,
I think you are right on the commission on General Insurance. I'm not really familiar in that as I'm in Life Reinsurance but I guess those are the figures.

I think it's quite misleading to say that agents earns 40% commission.

No doubt, for traditional products, which includes standalone medical plan, first year commission can be as high as 40%, but that is first year only. Not every year 40%.

For ILP product, it's as high as 25% first year. Reducing after that. Commission can be collected up to 6 years. Same goes to traditional product.

So, it is highly not advisable to cancel plan as some of the money paid will goes to agents in the first few years.

errr..I suppose AIG Home (general insurer) and AIA life are two entities but under the same big umbrella? Sorry no idea how their setup locally..

And thanks for your clarification on that AXA's per-disability clause.. good and bad I suppose.. ie. if we need to get hospitalized for the same illness for longer than the period allowed (ie. 150days). On well..

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Added on July 20, 2009, 4:45 pmDo check out with AIG Home Assurance, the product is called SafeSmart - You may purchase either PA, Medical, or CI , or all 3. I have their catalogue with me, handed over from an agent just about 2 months ago. Unless this is withdrawn, else you can 100% get the CI standalone, NOT COMING with MRTA dude.

This post has been edited by numbertwo: Jul 20 2009, 04:45 PM

AIA is seperated from AIG(in the process). But not sure about the general insurance business.

Numbertwo, you did quite a few study also. I tried to look for the plan but couldn't find it in their website.

Where do you heard of it? You know any agent from AIA?

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Added on July 20, 2009, 4:46 pmThanks numbertwo!

This post has been edited by Vitorbarbosa: Jul 20 2009, 04:46 PM

Hi Optiplex,

I strongly advise your to discuss with your P's agent and AXA's agent and b4 making the decision. I'm sure u'll find more info and made a well-informed decision after tat. No doubts AXA could offer cheaper premium than Prudential, i am sure there are pro and cons of both plan.NO MEDICAL PLAN is the best unless it suits what you want Considering switching plan from one to another is a bit risky and was not encouraged by Bank Negara unless you really think it is best to switch... do pay attention to the consequence of 30 days risk effective date beside 120 days of waiting period for specific illness, and list of benefits in details.

Basically, medical card can be standalone or attach as a rider to a life policy like investment-linked. Insurance charges for both cards will be charged according to age band regardless of type of card u r holding.

However, bear in mind that must pay the premium promptly at every renewal year, failing to do so make result in lapsation of standalone medical card and thus, if at the time you are so "lucky" to admit hospital... i don think any insurance company would like to honour the claim. Especially we are so used to pay premium yearly via autopayment credit card. Imagine you need to REMEMBER and MAKE SURE you have made the payment EVERY YEAR TILL OLD AGE..and we may have new Credit card no after expiry date....

Taking a medical card rider attached to whole life policy has the advantage if you forgot to pay the premium as long as there are enough cash value to sustain. Usually, there will be a "handsome" sum of cash value in the life policy to sustain the insurance charges after few years of prompt payment. I would consider this as hassle free and buy with a peace of mind.

Of coz, Pjusa has his point also that you can opt to pay only standalone medical card if not bind to whole life policy, especially you don want/cant afford to continue paying the whole-life policy premium. However, do you know u have to option consider to revise / review / reduced the whole life premium when u don want to commit so much in premium and you may have so called "premium holiday" in the life policy????.

Whether standalone or attached rider, there are pros and cons depending on what u want.

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Added on July 20, 2009, 5:24 pmI think Public Mutual also offer CI coverage to its investor at very cheap premium, but subject to portfolio withdrawal when notice is given ;(

Beside, i think i have come across certain insurer offer CI coverage with very minimal life coverage of RM5K also... worthwhile to explore further....

This post has been edited by samowong: Jul 20 2009, 05:24 PM

samowong,

insurers are "encourages" by bank negara to exercise take-overs. this renders waiting periods to almost zero. my last take-over even go the 30days waiting waived. you must however ask for it. while bank negara encourages it does not enforce this unless you call them or are otherwise vocal

i am absolutely certain that bank negare does not discourage switching! this would defy the purpose of an insurance market.

i dont think you need to be scared of missing the premium. first of: where did the money for the holiday come from? from your payments. so affordability is not an issue. you had the money anyway. either you can afford the insurance or you cant. there is no magic way for you to get into a plan you cant afford.

renewal notices are sent 2 months prior to expiry so you have _plenty_ of time. and if you have an agent they will surely remind you.

and i dont follow your argument regarding the ILP part. are you saying u buy an ILP product so you can stop paying after some years and then let the APL do its magic? you are aware that and APL also comes with interest? this strategy makes no sense to me. you should be better off either paying or investing separately.

and forgive but there is one best plan when it comes for medical cover: mandatory insurance that covers all medical bills period. if all are forced to be insured the spread is best. of course if this is handled by a non profit insurance company (i.e. government) then its best. sadly this best plan does not exist (yet). i remember that not too long mandatory health insurance was discussed but the gov didnt go through with it. probably scared people would be angry if have to pay extra and not get anything from it (besides better healthcare that is).

Yalor yalor, i got two medic card also... Not kiasu..but kia si !!! hahaha

The gov was about to launch EPF CI, standalone CI using EPF money but was strongly rejected by MTUC.

Maybe general insurers do offer standalone CI. Life company, I'm not sure.

And make sure they are guaranteed renewal if not, there is no point of getting them.

samowong,

thanks for the tip with public mutual. this is interesting:

http://www.publicmutual.com.my/page.aspx?n...utual-Life-Plus

500k cover for only 2,375.00 RM and it comes with death and TPD but who is complaining. D+TPD should be worth around 400 RM so the 500k for CI is roughly 2000 per annum. will consider this as we wanted to increase death and TPD anyway by 500k. 1M is so little money these days. since this is the only standalone plan so far we can hardly compare prices. it would be interesting to see the premium per 100k CI alone. for now we know Great Eastern (the underwriters) seems to think 400RM per 100k is the price.

looked for AIA CI plan - seems to be only offered to business though. too bad. i wonder if a single unit of public mutual fonds will also be enough to get the insurance.

This post has been edited by PJusa: Jul 20 2009, 06:06 PM

Hi Pjusa,
As far as i know, ILP does not incurred interest like Traditional life policy does. Furthermore, ILP charges insurance charges only (NOT PREMIUM) thru unit deduction. Personally, I have not been paying premium for nearly 2 years after 2.5 years of prompt payment, but my policy still inforced with covered medical and there is no APL accrued in my ILP statement. Furthermore, i wont be surprised if some may overlook it or some may even dont bother to read all the junk mail sent by insurance company. Haha.. Pjusa, u sound very well-versed in medical insurance especially oversea healthcare...mind share your profession ?? (No obligation ya!)

By the way, if you happen to encounter "the best plan" in future, pls share with us! But mandatory insurance that covers all medical bills period may look rather impossible to me in view of escalating medical cost...

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Added on July 20, 2009, 6:03 pmPjusa,

I think the Public Mutual offer is term insurance...so would it be too expensive to pay RM2375 yearly for a RM500K ?? Good about this is the premium is level for all age band especially for elderly b4 60. But the sackback is on the guarantee renewal issue....

samowong

This post has been edited by samowong: Jul 20 2009, 06:03 PM

samowong,

thanks for the info. i didnt know about unit deduction option. but this only means you dont pay the interest. good though but it sounds a tad impractical to me. but then others might be less inclined to handle their bills. i take the annual renewal as an option to evaluate cover and compare prices and alternatives to make sure we have what suits us best among the current offers.

and yes the public mutual sounds like a term insurance to me as well. to me its still interesting because it allows us to compare. 2000 RM for 500k is still costly (CI only) albeit intersting - depends as always on your needs. and the renewal guarantee issue is definitely a minus.

oh and regarding the best plan. actually i think its especially viable in escalting cost environments. consider this: noone pays any bill but it's all charged to one centralised insurance. not only is the risk spread optimal for the entire population (not so much ideal for low risk ppl) but it also provides a massive negotiating power. discounts are immanent. if hospitals wont budge, the monopoly insurer might just open its own to operate at cost. but they would have be non-profit base if the insurer is in for profit, the system wont work. i dont think this ideal insurance exists, to some degree it does exist in europe but too many exits for the rich remain. ideally premium would be a percentage of your income so it hurts people equally in comparison to the money they have. this means cross subsidy but its better than having high premiums who hurt the poor a lot and rich only feel a tickle.

oh and i am not that well informed - many things yet to learn. i am not really related to the business so i only learn from the contracts and proposals i get. i am an economist by the way. so the macro-view might be better than the micro-view of things

PMlife plus2..few things to bear in mind..
1) Group term life as you may have known now..So, question is, will group term life having higher risk of withdrawal?

2) non guaranteed premium, of course.. It has a history of premium increase.. (ie. the 200K plan was increased from 700+ to the 950 now, just happened about 2-3 years back if i remember right)

3) you need to have a 10x unit trust value equivalent to the premium in order to puchase the plan. (ie. RM4750 worth of unit trusts to purchase 100K plan1; RM9500 worth of UT to purchase 200K plan)

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Added on July 20, 2009, 6:41 pmdid you call AIA or AIG HOme? u may try call 1800-8888-11 to check on 'SafeSmart' 36CI plan..

This post has been edited by numbertwo: Jul 20 2009, 06:41 PM

PMlife looks less appealing and it doesnt get better well worth a look nonetheless. i dont think group insurance is per se more likely to withdrawal. you usually tend to get a better pack than as a direct customer due to purchasing power exercised. for example i previously had a plan at roughly the same cost with an official plan under life time limit but the main benefit was that unlike the regular life time limit the group plan had unlimited life & annual limit.

as per AIG i checked AIG general insurance. do you have a URL for AIG Home? as far as i know American Home Assurance is taken over by AIG general now. my sentiment is its AIG - i dont really trust them too much.

This post has been edited by PJusa: Jul 20 2009, 07:52 PM

just wonder why we need to separate between medical and ILP. Is it because ILP medical card normally have less benefit compare to standalone card? OR if we need to cancel the medical we have also to quit ILP?

cenkudu,

in a nutshell for both reasons. you seem to get less benefits per dollar premium paid (not surprising) and you are bound stronger due to the ILP part. you cant really benefit from ILP + rider in comparison to pure medical insurance if you leave the ease of using the investment to pay for the premium out i think overall you are getting more bang for your buck from a standalone policy alongside with all the plus and minus we have listed out previously.

Hi ,
the only URL that has this save&smart plan is here : http://www.aam.org.my/insurance/insurance_safe.asp (scroll to the bottom to see the CI plan), what you see here is exactly what I see from the catalogue on my table.... I can't find this plan in AIG website though..

This post has been edited by numbertwo: Jul 20 2009, 11:24 PM

maybe you can try this http://www.aig.com.my/AHAWebsite/info.jsp?id=320
if i have time I'll check the plan for u