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Movies Inception | The Dark Knight director sci-fi pic, Warner Brothers wants Inception 2 ?

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dlct87
post Jul 18 2010, 08:24 PM

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QUOTE(QuickFire @ Jul 18 2010, 07:10 PM)
Pretty sure they were heavily sedated, I think it was mentioned. Anyway, didn't they say they were going into multiple levels of dreams? That would necessitate the use of heavy sedatives. And I dont think... you answered my question. tongue.gif

Well if they did explore multiple levels, here's what I think. Many levels into the dream world, time became extremely slow. In the last dream level they dared to venture in, they basically spent 50 years there, aged, Mal went into a limbo state of mind, Cobb kept his sanity, decided it was enough, and killed themselves. Note that this particular suicide was not shown in the film. They then traversed across the preceding levels, killing themselves in each of them so they could go one level up. Cobb kept count of the number of levels they were in. The suicide on the tracks we see in the film happens when they reach the first level, thus explaining why they were still young when they lay on the tracks. They both wake up in the real world, but Mal, infected by Cobb's inception, refuses to believe this is reality, instead believing she will (always) need to go one more level up to reach reality.

Still, this does not answer the question of why Cobb didn't go into limbo while killing himself under sedatives.
Good to know I'm not the only one who has something less than positive to say about the film. Although I dont know anything about "dark knight directors".
Damn, four times already? Two's enough for me, until the DVD/bluray comes out.
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partly was because they went too deep, and partly, was because they started building things using their memories, so much so that they lost track of the sense of reality and dream, which then send them into the state of limbo

yea, i can't answer your last question as well because i am not sure whether they were under heavy sedation or not tongue.gif (or simply, the effect of the drugs wore off, what do you think?)
dlct87
post Jul 18 2010, 09:13 PM

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QUOTE(QuickFire @ Jul 18 2010, 09:08 PM)
The question remains, why squander a terrific, original idea it on some heist film (albeit a never-before-seen heist film) when it could have achieved a place in sci-fi pantheon. Maybe squander is too strong a word, because the current end result is still a perfectly good movie. Funny you should mention characters, because 80% of the film is completely focused on its plot.
Yeah I agree but I let that one slide. Plus you gotta ask why is it that the security at the hotel so lax compared to the other levels.
Haha yeah I've thought of that... and that would make his escape totally based on luck, which on second thought, isn't too far-fetched actually.
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or rather he take the safe route:waiting until the effect is off(i don't know whether it needs precise timing, or just anytime after that)

on the security tightness, its said that the deeper the dream, the tighter, and smarter are the security
dlct87
post Jul 18 2010, 09:28 PM

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QUOTE(QuickFire @ Jul 18 2010, 09:20 PM)
Cobb said he didn't know the time effect that occurs in dreams within dreams, so it's unlikely he could tell when the time was up. Let's just leave it to luck for now. laugh.gif

Yeah but the security in level 1 was far quicker in response and far more liberal in applying lethal force. But as I said I let it slide,.

Nice tidbit: The entire last 40 minutes or so, from the van crashing into the barrier of the bridge to it plunging into the water, lasts only half a second on the plane. thumbup.gif
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yeah, protagonists will always have luck in movies laugh.gif

the theater i watched in, the audiences laughed whenever the super slow-mo falling van comes on screen lol
dlct87
post Jul 18 2010, 10:00 PM

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QUOTE(defaultname365 @ Jul 18 2010, 09:42 PM)
Questions
Cobb and Mal's stories seem to make the chronological plot of "Inception" go out of place imo.

1. Cobb and Mal enjoyed the dream world they had created, and grew old together (50years?).

Yet, when they chose to die in the railway track after Cobb convinced Mal the world they were in is not real (because both used 'memories' to create their dream world, a big no. Mal became attached to the dream world and convinced it was real...).

Bam. They are young again. How is this? Shouldn't they both be oldies on the railway track?

2. The use of heavy sedatives causes one not just to dream, but to get into a state called 'limbo' where a small time change in the real world causes a huge time change in the dream (e.g 5 minutes = 10 years).

Yet, in the movie, it does not ever show both Cobb and Mal using heavy sedatives. And how did they get into their dream world they lived for so long with no dreaming devices attached? Most importantly how did they have a "shared dream experience" ? Both of them were in the same dream with no... err... strings attached.

3. The totem that Mal used which later Cobb started using. Explain. I don't get this. You see, the totem is locked away in a safe by Mal. The spinning totem indicates (to Mal) whether the world she lived in was a dream or reality. She locked it away because she didn't want to know the truth. Cobb later finds it and... the totem is not his, right? So whether it stops spinning or continues infinitely, is never correct in the eyes of Cobb? Isn't it a 'small rule' to not use others' totem? Or is it the totem belonged to both of them?

4. Real world -> Dream -> Limbo. Mal experiences this. Cobb convinces her to die together. If die here, they will be stuck (whatever that is) or "burn out their minds". After they both die in the railway, do they end up in reality or limbo? Why does Mal keep showing up in Cobb's dreams? Also, I don't understand how is it that Cobb can "lock" Mal in her world and visit her anytime. Is Mal stuck for real?

5. Why Robert Fischer Jr. when he dies, ends up with Mal in the dream world? Cobb and Ariadne later goes in to seek him out to complete the mission.

6. What is the movie about (the mission that is)? The major plot point is Cobb and his team, performing "inception" on Robert Fischer Jr. to split his company from his father (Maurice Fischer), right? Just as Saito (who hires Cobb) wanted it to his advantage. Corporate espionage. OK, so what is the significance of the whole "secret" at the end of the movie with Robert opening the vault with his father (the secret) in it? What happened here? (Father: "I'm disappointed that you tried").

7. After mission completed, Cobb finds Saito to claim his reward to go back to 'reality' and see his children. How does he do this and most importantly, where is Saito's place? A dream world Saito constructed along with projections of the guards that finds Cobb on the beach?
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1. 2 theories: 1 is you return to your supposed age once you realize you are dreaming; 2 is just probably Cobb in denial that they grew old together due to his guilt

2. they did connected to the machine, and probably sedated too(didn't being mentioned in the movie)

3. The totem inside the safe is just a projection of the real totem she used(its more of a symbol than real thing in the dream)

4. They end up in reality (if you take the ending as Cobb is in reality), the Mal who keep on showing up in his missions was a projections of Cobb's subconscious that slipped through the "memory jail" that Cobb built

5. Fischer went into limbo after being shot; Cobb and Ariadne "link" him together with them to assess the limbo, and in the movie its stated that the world of limbo can be shared by those who had been there (Cobb), the reason they used Cobb's layout was because they can find Fischer in the shortest time (Cobb knew the layout), since they are running out of time

6. to explain this we must look at the motives of each "level" of dream:

level 1: to make Fischer think that he and his uncle was being kidnap, and the kidnapper demands the code for his father's secret safe
level 2: to make Fischer think that level 1 is the real world, and in fact it was his uncle who staged the kidnap, to get hold of the secrets in the safe; so Cobb convinced Fischer to dive into his uncle's mind to find out what it is
level 3: Fischer thought this was his uncle's subconscious, but in fact its still his...his father, and the safe, was forged by Eames, to make Fischer think that his father cared for him all these while, and actually wants him to stand on his own, and don't follow his footsteps

7. Saito was in limbo, and since Cobb was connected to Saito in the sinking van, they end up in the same limbo

This post has been edited by dlct87: Jul 18 2010, 10:04 PM
dlct87
post Jul 18 2010, 11:28 PM

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one more thing, did this movie survived our censorship board's scissor?
dlct87
post Jul 18 2010, 11:39 PM

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QUOTE(jehutyz @ Jul 18 2010, 11:35 PM)
Ok....

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

dlct87
post Jul 18 2010, 11:51 PM

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QUOTE(jehutyz @ Jul 18 2010, 11:45 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Hmmm... caused i was told the scene sequence was not correct.... and some of the scene is not shown..


Added on July 18, 2010, 11:46 pmCheck this out, Inception The Cobol Job Comic
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if my memory served me right , here are the sequence:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 12:56 AM

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QUOTE(defaultname365 @ Jul 19 2010, 12:46 AM)
Alright thx... Looks like everyone has their own explanation!  biggrin.gif  This feels like "Lost". But in movie form.
4 times? The movie was released like 15/16 July and you have watched it 4 times! Madness! At the most it would be twice for me, then it is off to Blu-Ray, e.g "District 9", "Avatar" (3 times) and "Toy Story 3". I am so tempted to watch this again...
What do you mean? "As long as no one else knows the totem, it should be safe for Cobb to use the totem."
Holy crap!  doh.gif  100 minutes into the movie ? Madness! And the movie director was there! He must have really felt every breath of frustration from every audience member.
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because totem serve as a "guide" for you to know whether you are in others' dream or not, so as long as no one else know the exact specs of your totem, you can use it without worrying some architect had duplicated it to fool you
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(n00b13 @ Jul 19 2010, 04:39 PM)
No, the dreamer is always the architect. Ariadne designed each level, then taught them to each of the dreamers - Yusuf (level 1, city streets), Arthur (level 2, hotel), and Eames (level 3, snow fortress). That's why at the snow fortress level, Cobb asked her, "Did Eames add anything to the design?"
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that made me wonder, why the hell she designed that fortress to be on a snowy mountain? and not some easier location?
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(n00b13 @ Jul 19 2010, 04:46 PM)
Fischer asked the same question: "Why couldn't someone have dreamed a goddamn beach?!"  laugh.gif
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and i thought the snowy mountains was because Eames was in a freezing hotel room...so actually its only a fortress on a normal hill lol

but then its still harder than "a goddamn beach" laugh.gif laugh.gif
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 05:03 PM

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QUOTE(n00b13 @ Jul 19 2010, 04:56 PM)
Eames said it when Fischer was "dead".
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probably the safe is real, but the father's speech is just Eames "improvised" after he saw the paper windmill....(he did say the picture Fischer father broke earlier was useful, and in the pic was fischer holding the windmill with his father)
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(robertngo @ Jul 19 2010, 05:05 PM)
because they are so deep inside the dream would think decades have pass before they get back, they would have been a old man in a young body, or got insane before they run down the clock.


Added on July 19, 2010, 5:10 pm

Eames discover that Fischer was distance with his father and that he desperately want to have acceptance from his father, so he planted the story of the final will, and the idea grow inside Fischer and he dream of his father in the vault and the paper windmill to convince himself that his father was not disappointed at him and want him to live his own life.
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yea i get that, just that Eames said "i wanna know whats in there" after Fischer got shot, any idea what he wanna see?
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 05:22 PM

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QUOTE(QuickFire @ Jul 19 2010, 05:19 PM)
And too give the other the kick as well, perhaps. It's another thing the movie fails to really explain, I think. If the dreamer can in fact go deeper into the dreams without the preceding dream collapsing, then I think my theory on Cobb and Mal is sound.
Really, the only thing they did was to plant the seed of doubt in Fischer's mind that his father might have actually really loved him and wanted him to become a man of his own. This was primarily done in level 1, when Eames was impersonating Browning. It was here also that Fischer, subsubconsiously, began to suspect Browning's involvement in the kidnapping. In level 2, the hotel, the Browning that enters the room and is apprehended by Cobb is entirely a projection of Fischer's mind. From then on, the team knows the very basic idea is in already planted, and they basically push him on, telling Fischer what he already suspects.
I already answered this. Padding! Time slows down even more in level 3, and to juxtapose this with the relatively faster time in level 2, they have to have the characters do something busy, like taking on entire teams of generic henchman, sniping, making their way through snow. The same can be said about the zero-gravity scenes in which we are shown nothing but Arthur moving the bodies from one location to the another. It's the only reason for all this bullshit action. Why couldn't they have just placed their point of entry right in the fortress?
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oops....must have missed it when browsing through the sea of words tongue.gif

now it makes sense, thanks bro icon_rolleyes.gif
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Jul 19 2010, 05:23 PM)
The dreamer doesn't have to be the architect. E.g. Throughout all levels 1, 2, 3, Fisher is the Dreamer but Ariadne is the architect. (remember the self defense killers in all 3 levels)

The architect's role is to just design the layout. The Dreamer's role is to dream and fill the layout with his dreams.
Yeah. This is now what I believe.
Which kinda makes me think that Fisher was dreamer and Eames was architect. I really need to think this through I guess.
They just stay in limbo till the sedation wears off. The problem is, if they are in level 3, 5 mins in real world is like 50 years in level 3. Apparently in limbo, it's much worse. So now imagine staying in a dreamworld for that long. All alone. sweat.gif
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well the environment is built by an architect, and she brief the dreamer about the layout

every dream there will be 3 major components:

1. the dreamer (the "host", where he will build the layout based on what the architect designed)
2. the mark (where he will fill in his subconscious as projections and the safe to contain his secrets)
3. the participants (other members that get "linked" by the machine)
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 06:00 PM

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QUOTE(+Newbie+ @ Jul 19 2010, 05:45 PM)
Yes, Quickfire, also to provide the kick.
Remember the first mission against Saito?

Level 1 was the traitor's dream. Level 2 was Saito's dream.

Saito thought it was still his dream when they went into Level 1.

Therefore I disagree with you.
omg ... stop ... putting ... thoughts ... into my head ......

A world of Ellen Pages!!!!!! in bikinis!!!!! ... drool.gif
At the beginning after the first failed mission.
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nope, Saito said he's still in a dream, not his dream


Added on July 19, 2010, 6:03 pm
QUOTE(n00b13 @ Jul 19 2010, 05:49 PM)
No, level 2 was Arthur's dream, designed to seem familiar to Saito. Level 1 was Nash's dream, in which he was also the architect. So again, the dreamer is always the architect.
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yea, the dreamer can create their own layouts, or learn the layout from the architect before falling asleep

and only the dreamer can change the layout inside the dream

This post has been edited by dlct87: Jul 19 2010, 06:03 PM
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 08:27 PM

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QUOTE(evofantasy @ Jul 19 2010, 08:17 PM)
no offense can the mod or some1 jz give 'ate' a warning or something...
he seems to be really trolling hard...

oh ya about wut in the safe, i think it was placed there by fisher himself...
if i'm nt mistaken, the 3rd layer itself is fisher's dream (his goddad was his own projection)...
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fischer was the mark the whole time...its just the team trick him into believe that the snow mountain fortress vault they are about to break in was his uncle's (but its still his)
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 08:34 PM

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QUOTE(QuickFire @ Jul 19 2010, 08:28 PM)
Yeah, Ariadne did make mention of a hospital. But is it just me or were the trained projection in level 2 tamer than those in level 1? In level 1 there converged upon the team in no time and were ruthless, never hesitating to use lethal force when the chance arose, even in broad daylight. In contrast, those in level 2 were happy to sit nearly while Cobb influenced their client.
What are you saying? I'm not saying the architect couldn't also be a dreamer. Nash (probably) designed both levels of the dream, and he was the dreamer for the first and Arthur for the second.
laugh.gif  laugh.gif


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i think the projections will react according to Fischer's thinking, if Cobb gained his trust, then the subconscious will not act (they did showed suspicion on several occasion where Fischer was in doubt over Cobb's speech)

correct me if i am wrong tongue.gif
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 09:23 PM

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QUOTE(Kyoyagami @ Jul 19 2010, 09:11 PM)
In other words, the rain can also horrifically become pee? tongue.gif
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dreams feel real while we're in it, so you won't feel weird being rain upon by pee lol laugh.gif
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 10:57 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Jul 19 2010, 10:54 PM)
I'll say it's mainly Saito's fault ... fuuu ... who ask him come out a stupid idea want to corrupt Fischer's mind?

I like Ariadne the most, lucky she can escape at the end.
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cos Fischer is about to inherit a corporation that controls 70% of the world's energy production(or something like that), and Saito's company no longer can compete with them, so he want Cobb to put an idea in Fischer's mind so that he will break down his father's company
dlct87
post Jul 19 2010, 11:37 PM

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QUOTE(ReWeR @ Jul 19 2010, 11:03 PM)
I know.

There's many way to compete, but using dirty trick like this is not good lor.

end up bringing trouble to everyone only.
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dirty tricks are also ways to compete lol laugh.gif

well can't blame Saito, because he knew there is this profession where people invades other people's mind to steal idea, blame it on the guy who created this technology lol

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