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 Liverpool Football Club- The Kop Talks 2009, Liverpool vs Pompey Sunday 0100

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hfi
post Jan 17 2009, 01:04 PM

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For all those who wonder what's really happening behind the scene, here's an insightful info on the club's structure mess and political struggle between Rafa and Rick. Its posted in Rawk, seems credible.

QUOTE

I've tried to stay out of this thread as much as I can as I didn't want to have to keep responding to some of the drivel that seems to creeping into every other post since Rafa's press conference last week. It's not that easy when you see things repeated  30 seconds after SSN have said it and another myth is perpetuated ad infinitum and ad nauseum.
So I'm going to give an honest opinion based on fact. People can take it or leave it but those that know will understand. Those that want to just use any platform of perceived negativity to have a crack at Benitez will continue to do so because its been festering in their heads for too long to change. Those that only have an opinion dependant on what they see in the media will only change their opinion when they are told what it is by the same.

I've worked with Rick Parry and as you say Alan there is far more to this man than just being an accountant. His commitment to Liverpool F.C is undoubted and his workload would make most of us buckle after a week.
The job he inherited from Peter Robinson was one of if not THE biggest challenge to anyones abilities in recent football history.
The lack of foresight from his illustrious predecessors over many years has probably got more to do with our current plight than people care to see. Simply because it's easier to blame the 'clown' than anyone else. There is no smoke without fire though and therein lies part of the story.
Behind the scenes, he has worked tirelessly to haul our club back to where we once were. Both in terms of financial muscle and administrative excellence.
His ability to do this has been questioned many times within the club and some of the methods employed have actually left us further behind and not even close to be drawing level with our competitors.
Part of the blame for this has been the remnants of Liverpools administrative past. How things had to be done 'The Liverpool Way', while still dragging the club into the modern day. Liverpool as a footballing business model would be the team equivalent of the 2nd Division when Parry arrived while our main competitors were swanning around The Champions League, such was the ground we had to make up.

The problem with Parry is that his role and responsibilities have changed dramatically at the same time as we tried and failed to play catch up. So no sooner did we look as though we were getting there,then he was loaded with further responsibilities. This created difficulties, compounded by the changes in the managerial structure of the club and the rapid responses needed in the modern game. He was in effect doing 3 jobs.
One he was qualified for as an accountant. One he had experience of, effectively, as a senior administrator with the Premier League  and one he was never going to manage effectively alongside the other two. That was as C.E.O of Liverpool F.C.

How a club like Liverpool F.C could be the only one who didn't employ a marketting executive until Ayres was appointed is testament to the reliance of keeping things done a certain way so as not to rock the boat. They didn't learn by past mistakes. See the farcical 'joint manager' roles of Evans & Houllier as further evidence of that type of reasoning.

The job was too big for Parry but nobody within the club was prepared to change the situation. Instead more responsibility and therefore more power was given to Parry.

Once Benitez arrived at the club, things started to change almost immediately.
Benitez realised that from a footballing aspect the club was not geared up to the needs of the modern game and certainly not to the needs of Liverpool F.C. Some of the things Benitez was informed were in place when he was offered the managers position were clouded in half truths. Many of those things were paramount to Benitez in his decision to come to the club. They represented many of the things he saw as being vital for the club's long and short term future.

Benitez came to the club believing there was a platform for him to put his ideas in place and take the club to where they told him they wanted to be. The reality of what he found was so far removed from the initial promises. Initially this was put down to clashes of personality, which in some cases it was. However Benitez found himself running down blind alleys at almost every turn.He was continually meeting Parry down there. The main stumbling blocks being cash, the buying and selling of players and the youth structure. All things that a footballing man needed to run smoothly and effectively. Benitez was renowned for being one of the widely respected youth coaches during his time in Spain and this was a major part of his CV. Yet he was told to keep his nose out at Liverpool. The fragmentation of the senior and junior set ups at the club was beyond his comprehension. As was the fact that he, as manager was being prevented from having any effective input in to it's running or effectiveness.
Benitez decided to restructure those areas he was 'allowed' to and that started some major problems.
He effectively bypassed the youth system and brought his own players in, to train with the senior squad. Once Steve Heighway left,many of the successful youth team were promoted to the reserves and therefore came under his overall control.

He still didn't have any real input into the youth set up which was being overseen and run by Rick Parry. Parry's reluctance to sanction or back the overhaul of the youth system has been a major problem for Benitez. A none footballing man effectively preventing a football man from doing what he was brought in to do in the first place.
It is well known within the club that Benitez wants to develop our own players. He is extremely passionate about it, yet feels this won't happen quickly enough under the present structure.Even though that long term the club will benefit both financially and in terms of having a local heart to the club. Something that he spoke of only today.

On top of all of this is the farcical situation regarding protracted transfers we are all aware of. This all came to a head, just before the Gerrard fiasco made the headlines. Parry's reticence to get the Gerrard's contract sorted out was seen within the club and by Rafa in particular as an indication of how much power Parry thought he had. This was a further indication of his lack of footballing mentality. He was actually prompted to get this sorted from within the club but still dragged his heels.This caused major problems internally and is the catalyst for many of today's difficulties. The almost catastrophic outcome was seen as a watershed. It wasn't!

On top of that Benitez had the unfortunate misfortune of having to go through Parry for every transfer.
I'm not going into who they were, but certain players at home and abroad had approached Liverpool F.C and had agreed to come after speaking with Benitez only for the deal to fall through after Parry became involved. Some were high profile, some were not. The biggest deals having been well documented. Some equally as big which have not been.were already agreed with players without massive wage demands or contract terms only to fall away yet again. This caused severe professional embarrassment for Benitez and restricted the progress of the team.

Once the takeover came about and the club was restructured once again, Benitez was once again made promises regarding transfers.Certain operating procedures were put into place by Hicks  & Gillette to try and smooth things along. Without going into too much detail about what they were here, they failed when the H & G relationship started to wobble. The operating procedures fell by the wayside, which Benitez wasn't happy about as they appeared to be working. Once H & G lost the day to day 'hands on ' contact with club matters,apart from Ayres 'input', things reverted to type and Parry just went about things The Parry Way.

As I said initially, Parry works tirelessly for the club. However he is not the man for the job. Certainly not working with Benitez, or any other forward thinking manager, who knows the buck stops with him under the current structure.
As the public face of Liverpool Football Club, you couldn't meet a more insipid, grey, uninspiring man. He is the archetypal accountant, who's lack of personality and charisma is exactly what you would imagine it to be by his public image.

- Source
SUSYuka Yuka
post Jan 17 2009, 01:20 PM

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I remember Hicks wanted to kick Rick out previously, but failed to.

Our Board is really in a mess doh.gif
Fyrekat
post Jan 17 2009, 01:26 PM

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QUOTE(popsoul @ Jan 17 2009, 01:14 AM)
Easy. This Rafa's decision is going to make the fans at his back for Everton match. I predict a massive outcome from it.

Don't take things too complicated. Even though how worst the situation are, we definitely get through it.

You never know what happen next as like you never dream that Rafa could spoke in the conference with a note in his hands, publicly? He is not entirely lost his mind, i can assure you, especially in this very moment.

Wait and see. I never had a good feeling like this before. I can taste it now.
*
I certainly hope you're right.

Rafa the Mad hopefully transforms into Rafa the Mad Genius!!! thumbup.gif
harvster
post Jan 17 2009, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(CrossFirE @ Jan 17 2009, 12:09 PM)
ok. but remember to bring us back the premier league title. if not we will sack you. how? laugh.gif laugh.gif
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i'll bring you a treble season.. ok?


Added on January 17, 2009, 1:58 pmRafa:“The owners feel that the manager’s decisions need to be subject to the chief executive,” said Benitez. “But I know that I am subject to results and to our fans. They are the best judges I’ll ever have.”



yea RB! stick it to the man!


This post has been edited by harvster: Jan 17 2009, 01:58 PM
madmoz
post Jan 17 2009, 02:04 PM

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I OBJECT!!! ACCOUTANTS ARE NOT INSIPID, GREY, UNINSPIRING NOR DO ACCOUNTANTS LACK CHARISMA AND PERSONALITY! WHAT UTTER RUBBISH laugh.gif
ACCOUNTANTS ARE RED nod.gif

Anyways, some good news perhaps?
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8...4801597,00.html

This post has been edited by madmoz: Jan 17 2009, 02:05 PM
harvster
post Jan 17 2009, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(madmoz @ Jan 17 2009, 02:04 PM)
I OBJECT!!! ACCOUTANTS ARE NOT INSIPID, GREY, UNINSPIRING NOR DO ACCOUNTANTS LACK CHARISMA AND PERSONALITY! WHAT UTTER RUBBISH laugh.gif
ACCOUNTANTS ARE RED nod.gif

Anyways, some good news perhaps?
http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8...4801597,00.html
*
lol.. old news, slowpoke.. but yea, i hope its true.. really dont wat him to leave


Added on January 17, 2009, 2:53 pmRooney Relative Arrested Over Steven Gerrard Brawl

Wayne Rooney's wife Colleen McLoughlin today confirmed that her brother had been arrested in connection with the same assault in a Southport nightclub that had seen Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard end up briefly behind bars.

The England midfielder will face charges of assault and affray at court in Liverpool later this month, and yesterday another man, reported as being aged 19 and from the Huyton area of Liverpool, was taken into custody in connection with the incident.

Today a spokesman confirmed on behalf of Coleen, the wife of Gerrard's England team-mate, Manchester United striker Wayne Rooney, that Antony McLoughlin had been arrested.

"All we can say is to confirm he was arrested and confirm he was released without charge," a statement read.

"There will be no other comment from Coleen, Wayne or Coleen's family."

Merseyside police stated that McLoughlin had been released pending further enquiries. His father, Mr Tony McLoughlin, 49, told the Daily Mirror his son had "not done anything."

Part-time DJ Marcus McGee allegedly lost a tooth and suffered a cut face as a result of the brawl, which took place as Gerrard and his friends were celebrating Liverpool's 5-1 thrashing of Newcastle United over Christmas.

Gerrard will appear in North Sefton Magistrates' Court on January 23, along with two other men, to face charges of assault and affray, and could face a jail term if convicted.




sauce


This post has been edited by harvster: Jan 17 2009, 03:00 PM
popsoul
post Jan 17 2009, 03:21 PM

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It's understandable as Rafa wants to have not half but full control on the transfer policy. Personally i think he got fed up in Barry's saga but wasn't it a blessing in disguise where Alonso didn't happened to leave.


TSsolstice818
post Jan 17 2009, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(harvster @ Jan 17 2009, 02:13 PM)
lol.. old news, slowpoke.. but yea, i hope its true.. really dont wat him to leave


Added on January 17, 2009, 2:53 pmRooney Relative Arrested Over Steven Gerrard Brawl

Wayne Rooney's wife Colleen McLoughlin today confirmed that her brother had been arrested in connection with the same assault in a Southport nightclub that had seen Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard end up briefly behind bars.

The England midfielder will face charges of assault and affray at court in Liverpool later this month, and yesterday another man, reported as being aged 19 and from the Huyton area of Liverpool, was taken into custody in connection with the incident.

Today a spokesman confirmed on behalf of Coleen, the wife of Gerrard's England team-mate, Manchester United striker Wayne Rooney, that Antony McLoughlin had been arrested.

"All we can say is to confirm he was arrested and confirm he was released without charge," a statement read.

"There will be no other comment from Coleen, Wayne or Coleen's family."

Merseyside police stated that McLoughlin had been released pending further enquiries. His father, Mr Tony McLoughlin, 49, told the Daily Mirror his son had "not done anything."

Part-time DJ Marcus McGee allegedly lost a tooth and suffered a cut face as a result of the brawl, which took place as Gerrard and his friends were celebrating Liverpool's 5-1 thrashing of Newcastle United over Christmas.

Gerrard will appear in North Sefton Magistrates' Court on January 23, along with two other men, to face charges of assault and affray, and could face a jail term if convicted.




sauce

*
Just curious... Did rooney pay him to let gerrard get into hot water? unsure.gif
harvster
post Jan 17 2009, 05:12 PM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Jan 17 2009, 03:56 PM)
Just curious... Did rooney pay him to let gerrard get into hot water?  unsure.gif
*
they were family.. i dont think any payment was necessary.. tongue.gif


Added on January 17, 2009, 5:13 pm
QUOTE(popsoul @ Jan 17 2009, 03:21 PM)
It's understandable as Rafa wants to have not half but full control on the transfer policy. Personally i think he got fed up in Barry's saga but wasn't it a blessing in disguise where Alonso didn't happened to leave.
*
ye, good point.. i dont want barry if it means alonso leaving..

This post has been edited by harvster: Jan 17 2009, 05:13 PM
TSsolstice818
post Jan 17 2009, 05:34 PM

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QUOTE(harvster @ Jan 17 2009, 05:12 PM)
they were family.. i dont think any payment was necessary.. tongue.gif


Added on January 17, 2009, 5:13 pm
ye, good point.. i dont want barry if it means alonso leaving..
*
He shud be doing that to Carra instead of Gerrard. After all, it was Carra who wrote him like some pity little cat hidding when something wrong with the plane... laugh.gif tongue.gif
madmoz
post Jan 17 2009, 05:44 PM

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Wilson Palacios for 14 million??? shocking.gif
The lad is a bit of alright indeed, but to be worth almost two of Agger? Either Tottenham are muppets or someone in our club isn't doing their job properly hmm.gif
I do understand that Agger's contract is almost up, but isn't 7.5 million a bit on the low side?
TSsolstice818
post Jan 17 2009, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(madmoz @ Jan 17 2009, 05:44 PM)
Wilson Palacios for 14 million???  shocking.gif
The lad is a bit of alright indeed, but to be worth almost two of Agger? Either Tottenham are muppets or someone in our club isn't doing their job properly hmm.gif
I do understand that Agger's contract is almost up, but isn't 7.5 million a bit on the low side?
*
The latest quotes from tabloids say 9m wink.gif
GulaV
post Jan 17 2009, 05:51 PM

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7.5m pounds. 9m euros. it's different.
TSsolstice818
post Jan 17 2009, 06:04 PM

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QUOTE(GulaV @ Jan 17 2009, 05:51 PM)
7.5m pounds. 9m euros. it's different.
*
9m pound doh.gif
GulaV
post Jan 17 2009, 06:40 PM

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Is it? because last time I read it says Euro. Maybe my mistake. Pardon.
hfi
post Jan 17 2009, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(popsoul @ Jan 17 2009, 03:21 PM)
It's understandable as Rafa wants to have not half but full control on the transfer policy. Personally i think he got fed up in Barry's saga but wasn't it a blessing in disguise where Alonso didn't happened to leave.
*
The Barry saga was the most public documented deal that saw Rafa failing to get his player. I agree that it turned out to be somewhat a good 'miss' but what about all the other misses ? i.e. Alves, Vidic, Simao, etc. I think the intention of signing Barry suggested that Rafa intended to change the way we play football, a system where it would include both Barry and Keane, probably other undocumented target(s). So when we landed Keane but failed to land Barry, it meant Rafa only gotten one half of the 'parts' that he felt required to implement his changes. Maybe thats why we are seeing Keane not being played more frequently, as its not the system he was brought in to play. I dont know how desperate Rafa wanted to sell Alonso, but the pursuit of Barry suggested that Rafa wanted a more durable, injury resilient mid who can contribute to Liverpool's effort in challenging for the title. Alonso is by far the most impressive player we have this season, but he does have the the misfortune of getting injured quite frequently. And every time he does gets injured or not in form, the team consequently struggled and points are lost. Rafa felt we became to reliant on Alonso, so he decided to make changes. So yes its madness to even think of selling off Alonso, but can we really blame the manager for merely trying making adjustments in improving and strengthening the team ?
torres7
post Jan 17 2009, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(hfi @ Jan 17 2009, 06:46 PM)
The Barry saga was the most public documented deal that saw Rafa failing to get his player. I agree that it turned out to be somewhat a good 'miss' but what about all the other misses ? i.e. Alves, Vidic, Simao, etc. I think the intention of signing Barry suggested that Rafa intended to change the way we play football, a system where it would include both Barry and Keane, probably other undocumented target(s). So when we landed Keane but failed to land Barry, it meant Rafa only gotten one half of the 'parts' that he felt required to implement his changes. Maybe thats why we are seeing Keane not being played more frequently, as its not the system he was brought in to play. I dont know how desperate Rafa wanted to sell Alonso, but the pursuit of Barry suggested that Rafa wanted a more durable, injury resilient mid who can contribute to Liverpool's effort in challenging for the title. Alonso is by far the most impressive player we have this season, but he does have the the misfortune of getting injured quite frequently. And every time he does gets injured or not in form, the team consequently struggled and points are lost. Rafa felt we became to reliant on Alonso, so he decided to make changes. So yes its madness to even think of selling off Alonso, but can we really blame the manager for merely trying making adjustments in improving and strengthening the team ?
*
barry --> keane + gerrard --> torres..hmm,but lately seem that they are more focusing on the flanks.. hmm.gif
SUSYuka Yuka
post Jan 17 2009, 08:42 PM

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QUOTE(solstice818 @ Jan 17 2009, 06:04 PM)
9m pound  doh.gif
*
QUOTE(GulaV @ Jan 17 2009, 06:40 PM)
Is it? because last time I read it says Euro. Maybe my mistake. Pardon.
*
No I remember well it's stated 9 million euros in an article one two pages back
skulless
post Jan 17 2009, 09:20 PM

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Everytime we are to challenge for the league, we get negative news outbreak, whether it's stevie, rafa, agger or the owners. This season is definitely the most active based on negative news. Why, why and why. I mean isn't there a better time for Rafa to not say these kind of things, or he is just making up excuses if we fail to land the title. It's the same old kind of feeling all over again.
Oxigen
post Jan 17 2009, 09:39 PM

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ever since Gilette & Hicks took over the reign and David Moores stepped down, the saga never ends. funny though these issue is not as serious what Moores family was in the reign of the club for almost half century - the passion that drives from a true local Kop Lad!

btw, I forgot to raise the question from the Anfield Tour last April on how do players travel during Merseyside Derby - do they wallk accross Stanley Park? tongue.gif

-cheers-


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