dear Console Couch;

It's me(zarnall) again, u might remember me a while back from the survey I did (Malaysian Console Gamers Survey)(Yea that was really fun and helpful), which I'm very really grateful for all the kind support shown and great enthusiasm displayed which I enjoyed during the survey period, Mucho Thanks again.

With the data that you've contributed, I've seen the grief that we, Malaysian Console Gamers are really concerned about, GAME TITLE PRICES, it's just too EXPENSIVE for a regular Joe or Jill gamer here in Malaysia.
You would like to enjoy better internet capability to enjoy playing online game for efficiently.
You're just sick and tired of being duped all the time.

So I'm back with my next project; <Online Game Rental Service>or we can call it as <radioactive monkey> for short(lol).
I need another round of help from you guys because I'm bringing this idea/business plan to MDEC in hopes to land a Pre Seed Technoprenuer Fund Grant for RM150,000. I'm coming over to bug console couch again because I need your help to show this support so I will show this to the panel of Techno fund Grant come pitch presentation day where I go and wow them in 10 minutes.

With great humility I'll try to give you a brief explanation on what it is;

/start presentation

What is Radioactive monkey?

This is what we offer at radioactive monkey:

1 - We are offering our subscribers a rental service that gives the subscriber to hold up to 3 game titles for as long as they want with a charge of 2 - RM 50-80 per month for subscription.
3 - We will send the titles right to your doorstep.
4 - You can keep the titles for as long as you want.
5 - You can switch titles with us when you like whenever you want.
6 - If you want to keep one of the titles, you can buy it from us and we will send you the original box with another game title DVD from your wish list.
7 - Radioactive monkey covers all the shipping charges, to and fro.
8 - All payments will be charged with the credit card.

TLDR Version:
A rental service for Console games to all our subscribers in Malaysia.

How does it work?
>> Register @our sexy Website
>> Subscribe RM(50-85)
>> create game wish list
>> Receive 3 titles@one time
>> change the titles whenever
>> No late fees EVER!
>> No shipping EVER!
>> Become "Happy Gamer"!

Our main Hub hub an Online Store with a vast multitude of game titles that spans on all 3 7th gen consoles that are the Microsoft XBOX360, the Sony PS3 and the Nintendo Wii.

We guarantee 3 things:

1 - Original and genuine games to be enjoyed
2 - No Shipping charges for subscribers
3 - No late fees for subscribers

/end Presentation

Why are you doing this?
Pissed off mainly, with all the piracy action rampant in the country, I can't enjoy online content with my console without burning a hefty sum of cash every time I have the urge to get a game title.
Pissed off with the government support, they've never really thought on how to combat piracy, and instead punishing all the consumers with insane prices for something trivial like a original game title.
To help the average console gamer who owns a XBOX360,PS3 or Wii with their game urges and instead of thinking of buying it, he'll just get it with out much concern.
To help push the average guy that is thinking of getting a console but isn't willing to splash much cash on the games.
I'm just here giving u an opportunity to choose, you could either buy original, buy pirated or rent original without hurting your wallet while enjoying a buffet of game titles.

Why are you posting here?
Well Firstly, it's because console couch is the place of where most of the Malaysian console gamers congregate so it’s a great target audience for me.
You've helped in shaping the market response with your help on my survey.
I need your help for support, flames, questions or even suggestions.
I have no real life friends. (LF GF!)

With that being said, I've made a poll whether you would be a radioactivemonkey subscriber in this post. Show MDEC how many of us wants the change!

Please visit the teaser site @ www.radioactivemonkey.net spread the word around.
A breeze is coming, and it's bringing change, so get ready to fly! Fly my monkeys! /evil laugh!

Oh yea one more thing; I'd like for you guys to be part of this so we're giving out 100 beta user keys(it’s free of charge btw!). I've hidden the invite on the site, hope you guys are good with “where's waldo” games, lol.
With a beta key, you would enjoy 1 title a month with 1 change a week for 3 months. So that’s 2 games a week, 8 games a month and a grand total of 24 GAME TITLES TO BE PLAYED BY OUR BETA MONKEY USERS!

Phew, that was hard. Thanks again guys, keep this thread bumped and spread the word around. I'm going back to my Devil May Cry game, the only original game that I really enjoyed during my shopping spree for original titles. C’mon Rank B Devil Hunter, Save the hot chick!


Regards,
Zarnall

This post has been edited by zarnall: Jan 6 2009, 04:29 PM

clever to hide the special link...

haha

ppl with low "brightness" may not even see it but i guess it's pretty obvious for me.


registered..

good luck bro. good luck.

Good luck also

found the secret invite.. hehe

Any thoughts or questions or suggestions or watever? I'd like to know why you voted yes or no. It would help me tremendously.

[wta]

what happens if you fail to impress the panels?

arhh cant register.. .. anyway good luck...

We will start from the ground up by ourselves i suppose. Apply for bank loans, get the distributors to agree to some form revenue sharing, organise LAN parties to help move the gaming culture into Malaysia.

btw, it would be nice to hear reasons on why you wouldn't be a subscriber.

---

Added on January 6, 2009, 5:05 pmU gotta take a closer look with your eyes, it's just there.

This post has been edited by zarnall: Jan 6 2009, 05:05 PM

haha... already 4 eyes but cant see... hmm must use my super power...

I hope I'm not going to sound evil by giving out my opinion and I do hope you could improve on this part.

First off, this is great. Honestly, to get the support is tough, but if you can really pull of something huge, then by all means go for it and don't stop.

But my real gripe is actually on the rental service that you are providing. Certain games will have the End User License Agreement stated in their games that the title is not meant to be resold or rented. This is a problem. If you plan to execute a rental service, you're gonna have to talk to the bigwigs too around the world.

Honestly, I am not trying to shoot you down, but I'm just afraid if you get in trouble later with the law.

LOL! It's rIght there!

wohoo....registered....^^

Questions..

1. Will economy crisis affect your business?

2. How well do you think Malaysians will accept your vision?

3. Will piracy affect your business?

4. Games like GTA4.. if the price tag for a piece is RM190, 100 people wants to borrow it, meaning you will need 100 copies
unless they have deposit(not stated), you may gonna face 100 runaways. How are you going to cop with this problem ?
(since you only charge monthly subscription fees.)


Note :


This post has been edited by unrealweapon: Jan 6 2009, 05:16 PM

found it...

voted yes....

Ah i love u for this; i've forgotten to inform you all what makes us different from any other pirate; It's these beautiful 3 words, First Sale Doctrine

Here's a link to wiki about it. First Sale Doctrine Wiki

Basically wat it says is that : -

First Sale Doctrine is normally understood as a limitation on the copyright owner's exclusive distribution right, so it allows the purchaser to make further distributions of the specific object -- book, DVD, etc. -- that has been legally acquired.

In other words, once you've acquired a lawfully-made CD or book or DVD, you can lend, sell, or give it away without having to get permission from the copyright owner. In simpler terms, "you bought it, you own it"

We also did pursue some legal advise from numerous of local lecturers from Universities around Malaysia and they’ve confirmed with the statement that “copyright law does not restrict the owner of a copy from reselling legitimately obtained copies of copyright works, provided that those copies were originally produced by or with the permission of the copyright holder.

But thats a great question bro, thanks. Keep them coming guys.

---

Added on January 6, 2009, 5:28 pmThis post has been edited by zarnall: Jan 6 2009, 05:28 PM

Ah, great work dude! Since the law already originates from the US, US titles won't be a problem for you to get convicted. The next step you should consider is also looking at how detailed the copyright law in Malaysia also states. That way, people can't harm you.

Yea, I've confered with a lecturer here in Malaysia (can't give out his name, though w.o permission and all that), here the his quoted email;

if found the key i vote yes...

no.. not rich to do that.. btw.. i will KIV on your idea... since you say your team, i am thinking is a group of 3 -5 doing research and presenting ideas to the panel and i guess you may have know the price tag for direct buying from Sony and agreement..

i am VERY interested on how you are going to present your ideas ONLY seriously.

btw

i am interested the program you are joining to get RM150,000 for your ideas.. care to give the name of the sponsor for the RM150000 or website to browse?

since you are full of confident.. i will subscribe in the near future... depending on your outcome

This post has been edited by unrealweapon: Jan 6 2009, 05:36 PM

haha! Great, you are definitely good to go!

To be honest, I'm gonna with everything I've got;

Show wat the current situation is here in Malaysia, convince them that gaming is a tremendous force to be hold and ala steve jobs tell them whats instore for them in future if this gets funded.

Btw i really appreciate ur input, shows to me that you're a very good consumer like most all gamers that live in this pirate infested land, sorry to come all strong like that. It's just crazy to buy pirated goods if you could get the same enjoyment of a genuine game experience with us, thats why i think we should get funded.

actually ur service is a very much convenient way for us to enjoy original games at a so much affordable price....to tell u honestly....if we buy a new game...after playing...sell it off....we lose about rm 40 to rm80 bucks for each game.....i rather channel those money for your rental service....the least i can get is i can try/ply all those games tat i want from u....without losing so much money....and if i reli prefer the game that i played...i can just straight ahead buy it from u....it's a reli good service tat u're providing here....dunno wad other's are thinking...but from my point of view...kudos to u....keep up the good work...and reli hope that your business plan works out and get all the support that u needed.

Yea, i guess you the idea. Thanks for the support.

found it and already register it......so what the next action..

wait and be patient and you'll be contacted by monkey email :-)

ok my turn to play the devil's advocate here. sorry, can't help it. bad habit.

first of all, if you are really serious about starting a legit business, i would suggest that you consult a lawyer with expertise in local IP laws. Reading about copyright laws on Wikipedia is ok if you're just browsing, but seriously dude, get PROFESSIONAL advice. don't bet all your money on wikipedia and university lecturers.

and re the first sale doctrine wiki, i dunno if its just me but i'm interpreting it in different way. Granted i'm no expert on local or US copyright laws, let's assume the info from the wiki link is correct for the sake of this argument ok?

let's examine this paragraph from the link:

"In 1909 the codification originally applied to copies that had been sold (hence the "first sale doctrine"), but in the 1976 Act it was made to apply to any "owner" of a lawfully made copy or phonorecord (recorded music) regardless of whether it was first sold. So, for example, if the copyright owner licenses someone to make a copy (such as by downloading), then that copy (meaning the tangible medium of expression onto which it was copied under license, be it a hard drive or removable storage medium) may lawfully be sold, lent, traded, or given away.

The doctrine of first sale does not include renting and leasing phonorecords and certain types of computer software, although private nonprofit archives and libraries are allowed to lend these items if a notice that the work may be copyrighted is on the copy."


re the first sentence highlighted in red. From my understanding, it means if the copyright holder (the people that owns the IP of the game in your case) didn't give you permission to make copies of the game, it's illegal to resell it, lent it to someone else, trade or give it away. I believe this is specifically to protect the consumer's right to do whatever they want with the legal copy after they bought it.

whats more interesting is the 2nd sentence highlighted in red. i don't know about you but this clearly says that the first sale doctrine does not grant you permission to profit through rentals.

like i said earlier, you need more information from professionals on what our local IP laws are when it comes to rentals. different country have different laws.

check this out. http://www.copyright.gov/reports/software_ren.html

i have no idea if console games fall under "computer programs" but if it does, this amendment clearly states that its illegal in the US to rent them out without permission from the copyright owners. (i'm just highlighting this for the sake of this argument. )

i believe that big chain stores like gamestop and EBgames in the US can rent out games because they work very closely with the publishers (read: they get a cut). unless you've got the same arrangement with the various publishers' games that you want rent out in Malaysia, i'm quite sure you are contravening copyright laws. the question is where/how does the rental of video games fall under the local copyright laws?

of course, we all know that copyright laws is not exactly strictly enforced all the time in Malaysia, especially in grey areas like intellectual software property, it's really up to you if you want to do a legit, by the book business or otherwise.

the unspoken norm is because Malaysia is so insignificant to most publishers, they really can't be bothered about what we do. unless your website takes off in a HUGE way (which is quite unlikely, sorry) and is getting a lot of attention, no one will really come and kacau you.

PS: oh no hard feelings, but unless your rental game service site has something really, really special to offer, i dont see why you deserve RM150K from MDeC. i would be very surprised if you got the funding honestly. the seed fund is about aiding local technopreneurs create made in malaysia IPs that is of value and marketable to the rest of the world. rental game service that only caters to malaysians? hmmm....



This post has been edited by thurtin: Jan 6 2009, 07:55 PM

no credit card over here.
i guess that means im screwed?

This post has been edited by Mgsrulz: Jan 6 2009, 08:08 PM

im in because u are cool. what if someone subscribe and then when he get his 3 games he pass it to his friends and his friends pay him part of the subscription fee ? let say rm 50-85 divided by 3 ? so the 3 friends play the game at a third of the fee . have u think about this part of the service ?



This post has been edited by esca_flo: Jan 6 2009, 10:54 PM

like that...COOL

but I support if the price is good. later can pm

This will make you wanna apply for a card.

Lol.

---

Added on January 7, 2009, 12:20 amVery nice!

This post has been edited by zarnall: Jan 7 2009, 12:20 AM

Its about time this service comes to Malaysia.
If all other countries have online renting service why do we not have this.

I'm going to support you guys, it does solve most of the problems. But do make sure the pricing is right!!!

Piracy is what happened when you screw with poor people long enough!!!

Can you confirm me an INVITE????


Wow... thurtin what a long post.... Come on,dude!! do you really think this is a new idea and bother with the LEGALITIES?

Here are the list of countries that have variable of these kinda service COMMERCIALLY:

United States,Canada,Mexico,Brazil,Argentina,Jamaica,United Kingdom, Switzerland,Germany,Ireland,Denmark,Sweden,Norway,Slovenia,
Turkey,Spain,Australia,New Zealand,Singapore,India,Japan,South Africa

I don't see any of them in a LEGAL ROW while Malaysia in other hand try googling Malaysia + Piracy. It records about 883,000 hits in 0.25 sec most of them pointed to us being BAD.

thurtin"Malaysia is so insignificant to most publishers, they really can't be bothered about what we do". Seriously thurrin we are so insignificant? Where do you get that? You just farted it out?

"Malaysia is the primary source of pirated optical disc entertainment software in the world," said Douglas

Lowenstein, president of the ESA, the trade association representing U.S. computer and video game publishers." The

prevalence of pirate production and export from the country hinders the development of legitimate entertainment

software markets in target export countries, and makes it extremely difficult for game publishers to establish

legitimate markets in those areas ( It looks like maybe there are some OPENING for you guys after all).While Malaysia

remains the primary country of concern for the computer and video game industry,..... ah i am not gonna spoon feed you ...google...

Wow, so much for INSIGNIFICANT.

More of this piracy issues:

http://tinyurl.com/9x28q3 (Gamespot)
http://tinyurl.com/9cunmg (TechCentral)

At least your service shows that our country are trying to suggest a solution for our Markets rather than pirated stuff. Because i think piracy is a result of a Market Failure.

Thurtin, i am NO LAWYER, hell im not even good at LAW but quoted from you which you quoted from wikipedia "The doctrine of first sale does not include renting and leasing phonorecords and certain types of computer software" keyword CERTAIN meaning it should be a SUBSET of a Computer Software keyword again COMPUTER.

I don't think video games is a computer software because if it is: GAMEFLY not Gamestop or EBGames (I don't think they rent games http://tinyurl.com/8y28r2 ) or GAMINGHOW (Singapore) to name just a few service (yeah, there is MORE! Google!!),would be like you said A LEGIT BUSINESS. Please check both of them and observe they only rent-out console games just like these guys wanted to do, but NO COMPUTER Games. Why? Uh... Maybe because Computer Games is COMPUTER software and fell into the SUBSET of a computer software and makes it illegal to rent. But there is always Valve STEAM for computer games.

Now just for the sake of argument thurtin is right (NOT!!), video games falls under computer software which i think is highly unlikely, Singapore GamingHow is up & running and obviously get the developers approval i doubt that you guys can't. Singapore population is 4 million plus the last time i checked and with Kuala Lumpur and Penang you guys will easily level the population margin.

Or your service only extends KLANG VALLEY if i may ask ???

And with piracy rampant in our country i doubt the government (MDEC is a government owned mind you) and the publishers are AGAINST you guys. The government get the tax and the publisher would make a profit. Everyone is happy.

Dude, take my advice don't worry bout the LEGAL shit.... There are so many PIRACY here and i think Sony, Microsoft would want to ally with you guys to get a cut of the profit.IMHO from their pov (point of view) if they could reduce piracy and increase the profit, why shouldn't they.I mean that's what business all about isn't it? If your Idea does create a solution to piracy, i really really wonder why all the developers will wanna shoot you down. Its not like they are making money out of Malaysia currently? What are they going to LOSE? Piracy is already rampant, they are losing money currently and from the way i see it your solution does make some if not more money for them.

"i would be very surprised if you got the funding honestly. the seed fund is about aiding local technopreneurs create

made in malaysia IPs that is of value and marketable to the rest of the world" thurtin

Now now you are applying for MDEC?. Come on, not to demoralise you Son, i heard MDEC or prior MDC from 1998. It is now 2009, 11 years has passes by does MDEC fund any paradigm-shifting, curve-jumping,first-moving, patent-pending, world changing techno ideas? I don't think SO!!!...In analogy, If i would have done half bad on my 11 years of schooling i would get thrown out of school. Its a surprise they still seems to get paid evaluating people. Hey it is government owned, what do you expect?

Maybe the problem lies in "value and marketable to the rest of the world", but most if not all of the tech world movers only solve their own problems they had at the moment, which surprise surprise the rest of the world had but doesn't seems to realize. That is why the tech movers and shakers are so successful. What the problems most of you have the rest of the world most likely will experience the same problem too. Just solve it and if it is really good maybe you will get to be marketable for the rest of the world.

Now lets make a scenario here, with people Ala (thurtin) as the evaluator of MDEC funding division shall we:

Scenario A

Back in the days,One guy comes up to them and say "i want to create this perfect market economics where people can

sell used HP printers online."

The first thing they'll say "If im the buyer how would i know the printer works, if im the seller how would i know i

get paid and how would i know people doesn't sell ILLEGAL items?"

And his idea get shot down.

There goes Pierre Omidyar and Ebay Idea down the toilet.

Scenario B

Two teenagers comes up to the division and say "Yeah, you know we wanna build the tenth Search Engine. Forget that

theres Inktomi, theres Altavista, Forget that theres Yahoo, just put them all aside".

They get shot down.

There goes Larry Page and Sergey Brin of the Google idea.

Scenario C

Then three guys comes to technofund and say "Well, we need unlimited bandwidth,unlimited server space so that people

can steal videos and upload it. And once in a while there will be some original stuff,like we thought that there is

huge market potential for videos featuring Mentos and Diet Coke, we see that as a growth market. And currently we have

no way to make money out of the service. Why don't you guys come and fund us."

They are DEFINITELY gonna get turn down.

That's Steve Chen, Chad Hurley and Jawed Karim of YOUTUBE.com


And then these people are talking about funding world class ideas.DELUSIONAL case.Seriously they wouldn't know a paradigm-shifting, curve-jumping,first-moving, patent-pending, world changing ideas if it smacks them in the face. These guys are paid people, working just like most of us, they are not People experience in building a successful world class or even maybe local companies. If they can identify great ideas maybe they already started it out already.
Even Kleiner & Perkins had the problems of identifying great or even good ideas.

IMHO is for you guys to bootstrap your venture and start small. Once you get the traction try get some business loans or a proper VC to go along.


I do think these guys are trying to SOLVE their own problems although not an ORIGINAL Idea but does anyone have original ideas nowadays.Quit looking for one, and just look at the ideas that solve people problems, and make our life easier.Kudos for trying that.
And guess what, maybe hundred of thousand people out there have/had the same problem and would opt for their solution. I for one would, and please please please do make sure the pricing is right again.


Thank You for READING!!!

Thurtin less posting, more READING! Books that is....

That's the user creativeness, as long as they pay the subscription, it's ok i suppose. But it would be kinda useless, tbh, i'm offering a subscription plan for 3 titles at one time with changes with shipping covered.

This plan is less expensive than most of us spend on our monthly telco bill.

---

Added on January 7, 2009, 2:13 amAt this moment, the site only records the email addresses, we will extend a reply in the near future. Sorry

This post has been edited by zarnall: Jan 7 2009, 02:13 AM

i found it, registered it.
im too young for a credit card
only got debit card

nemind swat , u pay to me , i give u 1 of the 3 game , want ? hehe

haha, but i love to keep games i played/bought

me too for collection but some games maybe no need to keep also fine , like pop , mirror edge , just rent play send back , like cod can play multiplayer then keep la . thats just me , this is all personal preference anyway.

it's MDEC. every year they open a grant for pre-seed fund. just submit ur business idea/business plan and they'll consider it. but of course it's tough. but no harm to try. try to download the form at their website.

closing date.. 2nd Jan 2009 "D

registered. good luck!

hahaha. diehell, don't bother about inane rambling. i was just bored last night and i couldn't resist.

and besides, what and who do i know anyway, right?

try for next intake..

Yup, we should get more startups to be funded by the government! go and be somebody..../slap!

oh wait! use CC?? and how Im gonna get that

maybank2u!!

Xd maybank . Maybank minimum bank saving acc bape nak bukak?

found ur secret invite almost make me blind...haha good luck!

hehehe..bukak je. lepas dah settle atm, kuarkan balik.

found the secret invite...

RM200 - 250.... agak agak range tu la

if use m2u can? I don't have a cc.

and I really interested in this. really.

and can rent 3 games registered and vote yes!

hmmm....no updates from ts.....

Me also want to know the updated..

how was it going...

foowah..saw the secret invite....

what an eye opener

Hahaha thanks so much.

Proposal sent, now I'm jsut waiting to be called for the interview. Wish me luck.

gudluck! registered and voted.

hopefully all goes well!

nice

Sup guys,

Been a while since I've bumped.
We got shortlisted. Now it's just another QnA session tomorrow.

So i guess tomorrow is sort off like D-Day for us, make or break!

Wish us luck!

-Zarnall-

wow, good luck zarnall! I wish u the best!
hope this work out

Thanks.

The presentation went great, my friend gave a superb presentation.

I'll know the result tomorrow

Till then, i'm a nervous wreck lol.

Online Game Rental Service called radioactive monkey? that is not cool naame bro. call it OGRES, better name j/k only bro. anyway all the best n goodluck

Hahaha. Ogres, not bad man. But i like mutant radioactive monkeys lol. reminds me of those flying monkeys from alice in wonderland. FLY MY MONKEYS!

great idea i will never buy a game anymo can save money

so how's the Q&A session going? hopefully all goes well..

What's the news pretty boy? dah dapat ke tak?

While waiting for Radioactivemonkey to open shop, take a look at my website for PS3 game rentals.

I thought I'd copy his idea, travel back in time to Dec 2007 and set up my rental service.

You've been Sarah Connor Chronicled!

wowee look.

ooj has proven that you don't need actually need a RM150K grant to get this idea off the ground. what a surprise.

so....this service is officially dead,then?