I'd have to say, feeding raw is not a 'cure' like others might think. Yes, it might help a little with some little problems like redness on the skin or itchiness, etc coz that might be because the type of protein our pups are ingesting is not the appropriate ones. When switched to raw, the problems will go away. From what you've described, your pup might be having different problems since coughing, swollen eyelids are not common symptoms of food allergies or what have you. It might be a good idea to maybe consult another vet to find out if there are underlying problems or it might be food allergies. I'm afraid the questions you asked about shedding and eyes might be more for the vet, so it's best to consult them for these medical advises.

If it IS food allergies though, perhaps you an try an elimination diet to find which meats are not suitable for your pup. You've already fed your pup 2-3 weeks of chicken...are her stools good (firm but not crumbly)? If so, you can slowly introduce varieties to her. Pups take to raw much faster than adult dogs, but take care not to overdo it too as she's also recovering atm. There are many types of meats you can feed: mutton, lamb, pork, buffalo, fish, quail, squirrel, wild boar, beef, turkey, duck, venison, etc. Look out for sales in the supermarkets. More often than not, you could get good bargains for them..or better yet, buy from wet markets I only spend about RM50 - RM70 a month for meats, and it can feed my Scottie (a Min Schnauzer) and Kenji (a Chihuahua) for at least a month...sometimes more if I get good bargains.

Another thing to add is that, you have only fed your pup for 2 - 3 weeks. That's hardly enough time to see much enhancement...if you've noticed she has less bad breath and less stools, that is already an improvement. Raw feeding is not an instant or miracle cure. It's just a better way of feeding our furkids and helping to strengthen their bodies by giving them good and appropriate nutrition.

Re: mutton / lamb bones, please do not feed the weight-bearing bones (ie the leg bones) as they are too dense and are teeth breakers. You do not necessarily have to feed bone all the time, and our dogs don't really need that much bone in their diet anyways. An indicator that you're feeding too much bone is when you notice the stools are crumbly. If so, feed an all meat meal the next time to balance it out.. There are many types of bones you can feed. I feed Scottie bones from chicken, duck, quail, pork ribs, fish, turkey, and squirrel Make sure they are enveloped in meat though

One last thing, remember to include some organs in her diet too...raw feeding is not just feeding meat and bones. I don't know if you're feeding the Prey Model or BARF. I follow the Prey Model, and the percentages are about 80% meat, 10% bones and 10% organs. Of the 10% organs, half should be liver, and the rest other organs like kidney, lungs, spleen, etc. Tripe, gizzards and hearts are considered as meats though coz they are mostly muscle. But again, it's more of Balance Over Time...you don't have to feed your pup thte perfect percentages everyday. As long as the percentages even out through the course of time (meaning you've fed mostly meat, some bone and some organs over time), it's good enough.

Hope this helps a little!

This post has been edited by Rayne: Oct 2 2009, 01:28 AM

Hi Rayne,

Glad you're back. Thanks for sharing your knowledge on raw. Santa and Minnie has been on raw for 2 months now. So far so good.

My concern now is I have not added other meats. I have tried fish though but both of them are not keen and I ended up giving the fish to stray cats!

As for beef and mutton, do you get the local ones or imported ones? Do I need to freeze them for a week or so before using them? What about pork? Do I need to freeze them for a week or so too?

I have also tried lean pork neck meat and they don't seemed to like it that much and ate just a little.

Now I am just feeding chicken because they only eat that. Would appreciate your advice on how to add other meats or can I just stick to chicken.

Hi Diana Great to hear they're doing very well with raw!

I guess fish is not for every dog. It's not necessary to feed fish if they don't like it, but maybe you can try it again later. Sometimes they change tastes and might like it later. I usually just feed fish that are high in Omega 3's (sardines, salmon) to balance out the Omega 6's from chicken. If your pups don't like fish, you can give them fish body oil (it's the same ones we get from health food stores - capsules) as a supplement to try

I've tried both local and imported for mutton. Beef from Australia is too expensive... Local beef also getting quite expensive (I think I've only found bargains for local beef once or twice so far), so I usually get buffalo meat which is cheaper I don't really freeze it for a week though. Because I buy quite a lot in one go, sometimes the meat gets frozen for a week or more, but from what I've read in the group, it's not necessary to freeze one week before feeding. Same goes to pork I WOULD freeze wild boar meat a little though because of the possibility of trichinosis, but a good friend of mine (who feeds raw too) thinks that wild boars are no different from farm pork. She doesn't freeze her wild boar meat, so I guess it's up to your own preferences

When you transition them to other meats, do it like the commercial dog food way. Feed a little of the new meat with most of the meal the meat they're used to. Over the next few days, increase the percentage of the new meat and decrease the 'old' meat until you have successfully fed them a full meal of the new meat. If they don't like the lean pork meat, perhaps you could try lamb or mutton first coz the meat smell much stronger than pork? Or if all else fails, 'tough love', or sear the meat a little first, then gradually decrease amount of searing? If I remember correctly, was it Santa who will have gastric pains? Not very sure how to handle more picky eaters, coz both Scottie and Kenji never gave me any problems when feeding raw :S Hope that helps you a little bit

It is Santa that's a picky eater and gastric problem. Somehow or rather she finds things to pick. With raw chicken, she doesn't eat if I don't cut them up in small bite sizes! Maybe we have spoilt her. She can even be picky with treats!! I have never seen any dogs that are picky about treats.

I must say switching them to raw has made feeding much easier. Now I'm feeding both of them twice a day. I've skipped the morning feeding since they do not have the appetite to eat in the morning. And when I feed, whatever's not finished, I just pick them up and put them back into the fridge for the next feeding. I don't weigh out their daily portion anymore. They seem to know when they have enough! Glad that I stumbled upon your post here on "prey model" which is much simpler than BARF. Once again, thanks for sharing.

LOL...Santa sure is picky! What about the bones in chicken? Hope she manages to get some of those even when the meat is bite-sized

That's great that they know how to self-regulate! As time goes, if you want to make it even more easy, you can follow some of the other raw feeders in the group...they feed bigger meals less frequently. But it also depends if they can take it though...if they're up for bigger meals, feed them a little more in the first meal and decrease the amount in the second meal until they will eat only one meal.

Aww..no need to thank me. Just trying to spread the word about raw feeding and its benefits, that's all

This post has been edited by Rayne: Oct 2 2009, 01:18 PM

I have a beagle. She's now 3 years old d. She has itchy chest and belly. We often see her scratching and her belly and chest all inflamed.

Today,she just started with some raw wild boar meat mixed with rice and some chicken gravy. I'll be giving her less rice and gravy day by day. Will this help my dog to accustom to fully raw diet ? What type of meat best to promote skin & coat ? Thanks



This post has been edited by kawa_e: Oct 3 2009, 06:17 PM

Hi kawa_e,
As a general 'rule', we don't feed rice or gravy to our dogs in raw feeding. When I switched Scottie, I just switch him straight away from kibbles (ie feed him one meal kibble, the following meals all raw). He never did have any loose poop or transitional problems, and I've been feeding him raw for over a year now. No worries in switching straight to raw all the way, but be sure to be well aware about the percentages and not to panic if your dog has loose stools at first. Loose stools are more often than not the cause of not enough bone in her meals...diarrhea is very different from loose stools, so be sure to read more about it

All raw meats are good for the skin and coat because they are the correct form of proteins that our dogs are meant to eat. But don't expect to see results instantly. Like I said before in my previous posts, raw feeding is no miracle cure...it takes time to see the benefits.

You mentioned that your dog is itchy all over...did you bring her to the vet to check for any cause? It might not all be diet related, so best to check it out too in case it's other things that's causing the itchiness and inflammation

Uhhh, where do you guys get wild boar meat? Honestly, I've never seen that before.

I get wild boar meat from the wet market. There's one stall in the wet market at Kuchai Lama (Jalan Batu 4 1/2 if you're familiar with that place). They're selling it at about RM10 per kg. You could also have a look out at wet markets to see if there are people selling exotic meats like squirrels, snakes, etc. to ask if they sell wild boar meat too.

Rayne, thanks for your advice. My pup just admitted to hospital. Vomiting & diarrhea again, but this time round is worse, she even vomited out the glucose water that I fed her every hour. Blood test result will only be ready by tomorrow. Due to her critical condition, I can only pray & hope for the best.

Thanks rayne Fifi is now feeding with half kibble and half raw meat. We feed her twice a day. A v small amount of kibbles in morning and evening a bit of kibbles mixed with one piece of boneless meat (cut to small pieces). Last few days her dinner needed to put gravy but today we didn't put already I hope few days later no need to put kibbles too.

I havent been monitoring her stools lately. I'll be asking my dad as he's the one scooping her stools and throw it. Haha.

Rayne,
1. how much do I need to feed my female beagle with raw meat a day ? Twice or once ?
2. We haven't started giving Fifi with bone meat also. Weekend only give or how ? Sorry ya.. I'm v clueless here

As for Fifi's itchiness, we brought her to see vet and the vet gave her itchy pills,injections and a shampoo to clean only. It did not help at all. I'm guessing it should be diet related

So sorry to hear about your pup's condition. Hope she'll be better real soon.

I'm very sorry to be blunt, but it sounds like you haven't been reading enough on beginning raw feeding. When we feed raw, it's not about just giving raw meat and that's it. I'm not sure which model you are following, but the BARF model provides some veggie mush along with the meat, bones and offal. The Prey Model (which I follow) doesn't include the veggies. And it's not about just feeding one piece of meat, or just only one kind of meat. Variety, as well as amount and percentages of meat, bone and offal need to be considered too.

I would suggest that you do more reading online or look for reference books about raw feeding and decide which model you would like to follow. I joined a Yahoo group of raw feeders to get advice from and to answer all my doubts and concerns. It's very important that you know exactly what you're feeding and what to expect when raw feeding.

If you would like to know more about the Prey Model, I posted an introductory article on it here: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=23594536
I have also posted an article on beginning raw feeding (for the Prey Model) here: http://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=23620375

Hope that could help you get started on understanding more about raw feeding!

thanks for the suggested websites! Yes. I have been worrying. I tempted to give Fifi some kibbles if she doesnt eat on the raw.Now I will not do that. I wanted to follow the prey model as it is more approriate for dog Thanks. Will try out today. Hopefully Fifi will accept the raw

This post has been edited by kawa_e: Oct 6 2009, 10:14 AM

You're most welcome Hope Fifi loves her raw meals!

Yes, the chicken with bones too that are being cut up. I do away with some bigger bones though. I must say they prefer bones than meat.

I think I would have to stick to 2 meals a day since Santa has gastric. Furthermore, I should say she is a small eater. Though I leave out quite a lot of pieces of chicken for them, Santa knows when she has enough.

Just now I tried beef. Both of them turned away. I seared the beef slightly and after tasting them, they wanted more!

Haha, guess that's the way for you to introduce new meat for them then Once a while, maybe you could give them a bigger piece of chicken with bone to help them chew. Chewing bones help to scale their teeth, and since they self-regulate, over eating won't be a problem

i came across this article when researching about barf diet. i haven't started on my golden yet. http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/barf-myth.html . any comments? my most main concern is exposure
to bacteria and also as this article points out that domestic dogs are NOT the equivalent of wild wolves
as they evolved more than 400,000 yrs apart. ( i think?)

why everything I read about "do not feed to dogs" seems to be useless here...

I thought we shouldn't feed chicken bones? because it might cut the dog when they are chewing/in stomack? (not sure about blended ones, never blend chicken bones before so dunno how small is can get)

I thought we shouldn't feed raw eggs as well?

Do you guys feed lamb/beef/pork with bones or without bones?

What if I give boneless chicken and replace calcium with other food instead?

There will always be two sides to a coin, as they say. It's really up to you as an owner to decide what is best for your dog. If you feel the best way to feed your furkid is kibbles, there is no reason for you to change it, right? As with all information gleaned from the Internet, we ourselves need to know how to 'filter' through these kinds of misleading information. Although I have no science-y articles or what not to back me up, I have been raw feeding Scottie and Kenji for more than a year. I don't only get my info from the Internet, but also books and fellow raw feeders who've been feeding for a longer time than me. These issues (exposure to bacteria and evolution of dogs from wolves) I think have been discussed time and time again from loads of people...it probably won't do us any good to argue over this either. It's only whether YOU yourself think it (raw feeding) is good or bad. I took the plunge to raw feeding, and have not looked back since...Scottie is doing very well on it, and I have no problems whatsoever with him on raw. My family has not have any illnesses from bacteria, and I didn't have to send Scottie to the vet for almost a year now. Compared to previous experiences, I would have to send Scottie to the vet every few months for something or other. Your call.


Same goes to these questions...it's been discussed in previous posts, so go back a few pages to read if you want. It's really up to you if you want to feed kibble or raw. Just make sure what you're feeding is balanced, and you're good to go

oh yeah, what I know organs also cannot.

I read through the whole thread I don't remember reading topic about the last four questions. FYI, I am not questioning about raw, I am asking so to know what and what not to feed. Anyway mine is not small breed.

actually most people started this raw thingy recently, as in this few years. So we only can tell the physical thingy, but what about internal? We won't know how their internal organs doing until they started aging. I know there are some people feeding raws for more then 10 years, but it's quite a small ratio compare to now. (small ratio = less obvious medical case when they age)

so how can you prove that organs and chicken bones are really good for dogs? Because there are alot cases where raw chicken bones cut through dogs' mouth/intestines and dogs got some organs failure due to feeding organs.

Again, I am not questiong about feeding raw or comparing raw and kibbles. Just asking what's best and what not in raw.

This post has been edited by fresh_ideas: Oct 26 2009, 10:57 AM