Life's getting complicated.....

Before my new Blu-Ray and AV Receiver, life were simpler with my HTIB... always choose DTS.

Now?
Got Uncompressed PCM la, DTS MA la, DTS HD, Dolby HD, PLII Movie, Neo ,THX, etc..etc..

Due to old habit, I still look for DTS where possible, Dolby being the next. But what about this "Uncompressed 5.1 PCM"? Any noticeable performance? Am I missing anything?

What's your preference?

if you have decent speakers and those AVR capable of handling HD audio, the differences are obvious. Even my wife notice the different.

Thanks mpyw.
For sure I'd go for HD. But the Uncompressed 5.1 PCM - is it better or lesser than the HD?

Uncompress PCM as it's name said - It's uncompress and takes up lots of storage in the disc.

in theory it should be the same as DTS-HDMA and Dolby TrueHD. one is uncompress files, the other 2 are "zip" audio files stored inside the disc to save storage space.

Lossless audio is the way to go. Be it uncompressed PCM, DTS HD MA or Dolby TrueHD, the sound from either one of these formats is simply fantastic!

Uncompressed PCM = WAVE file.
DTS HD MA or Dolby TrueHD = Flac or Ogg (loseless).

Just a simple comparison. So in actual fact, it should be identical.

berani u ask " Uncompressed PCM, DTS MA , DTS HD, Dolby HD, PLII Movie, Neo ,THX, etc..etc.." here,sure lots of sifus will poison u kaw kaw kaw

If u are looking for reference Linear PCM BD, buy Kill Bill Vol I & II.

the poison is coming

Actually I am confuse too. In fact when I listen to DTS HD on BD & DTS on DVD it sound the same to me! BY right should be better!? Something wrong with my BD30 set-up???
Panny BD30 HDMI to Onkyo 875 HDMI in. Onkyo 7.1 set-up ( normal cheapo speaker ) Panny BD30 audio setting all set to bistream, secondary audio set to off.
Thank in advance for all advice! Have a very nice day!

FYI:



Note: The bitrate indicated are the most commonly found, while they can actually be higher.

Horny, your setting is correct, just make sure you're listening preset for DTS-HD MA as DTS-HD MA, and so on. The Panny BD30 can bitstream high-bitrate audio, so no problem there.

dude...u sure love diagram

wow,thanks aiman for the diagram

Old questionBDs play with PS3,the audio signal oledi decode in PS3 oledi,rite?

That's right. PS3 decode everything and send out PCM signal to AVR.

if u select pcm in the BD/DVD setting, then ps3 will go the decoding. id bitstream then yr amp will do the decoding

ok,so when the AVR received PCM signal,it wont show DTS-HD,TrueHD....and what type of "surround" we need to choose for best AQ,say both Yammy and Onky ?

it will show multichanal. and those DTS-HD,TrueHD.... 'red box' will not lightup

if select bitstream,our AVR will do the decoding and show TRue HD,DTS-HD in ur AVR,sure?

how if we select bitstream but using optical output from PS3 and going to a old amp without HDMI input?

PS3 don't do bitstream.

Yep ur amp will only show PCM. Doesn't matter whether u bitstream or send PCM, as long as ur source is good ur output will be good.

with bitstream, no HD sound loh

so if show multichannel,it wont be as good as DTS-HD,TrueHD....?


with Onkyo 875 it show multichannel(same with PCM in Yammy?),so it should be as good as "real" DTS-HD,True HD....?

PS3 don't do bitstream

got this somewhere,understand more now

Bitstream

Bitstream: A specific way of transmitting information from one place to another. The Bitstream ‘style’ of data transmission sends “compressed” information (data that has been previously ‘packaged’, or squashed down to save space) to an audio receiver. That receiver must then de-compress (or “decode”) the data before it can be ‘read’ and played by the receiver as sound.

PCM


PCM: “Pulse Code Modulation”. A specific way of transmitting digital sound information from one place to another. The PCM ‘style’ of data transmission sends the info “uncompressed”. This means that when it is sent from the data source (a Blu-ray disc, CD, etc.) to a piece of audio equipment – it can be instantly ‘read’ and played. Compressed data has been previously ‘packaged’, or squashed down to save space on the disc. Compressed data must be Decompressed (or “decoded”) in order to be ‘read’ – like boxing up your book collection when you move, you must unpack your books before you can read them again. PCM is different. Since the data has not been ‘boxed up’, it does not have to be ‘unboxed’ (or “decoded”) before it is usable

PS3 does bitstream. But all it will only bitstream the standard DTS and Dolby Digital only. So for DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD sources, PS3 will take the core DTS and Dolby Digital packet inside the track instead.

Myqd, set the Onkyo receiver listening preset to multich for minimal processing (this will only do appropriate crossovers/speaker settings). Unless you want to add more processing, you can set THX Cinema, etc to your liking. But I like to listen just as the director intended, multich fo me.



This post has been edited by aiman04: Sep 23 2008, 12:30 PM

Good,simple and clear

...another thing,for DTS-HDMA and Dolby True HD sources from BDs,if using optical input to my old Denon 3300,it only show Dolby Digital most of the time,wny not DTS? or it depends on the sources?

Optical can't carry high bitrate audio due to its limited badwidth. If you set the PS3 to bitstream via optical, it will only send the core DTS/Dolby Digital (yes, even Dolby TrueHD can't be sent via optical). Same as my explanation above.

If you set the PS3 to send PCM via optical, all high bitrate audio format (DTS-HD MA, Dolby TueHD and uncompressed PCM tracks) will be downgraded to 2 channels only.

HDMI is the only way for lossless audio tracks (high bitrate). Unless you use a standalone player with internal decoding plus multi-channel analogue outs (like Panasonic DMP-BD50 or Sony BDP-S550).

---

Added on September 23, 2008, 12:48 pmI misunderstood your question there. Dolby Digital most of the times? Even when the audio track chosen is DTS-HD MA?

This post has been edited by aiman04: Sep 23 2008, 12:48 PM

Haha bro..

I m in de same boat too.. if there is a diff.. then our tin ears prbbly cant tell de diff..

I d say tat sum ttls are better mixed then others even thou of superior formats.. So far I hv one ttl in 7.1 pcm - Forbidden Kingdom n except for de final few moments of de movie.. i really coudlnt tell if it was 7.1 or 5.1..

Just my 2 cts
Dirtrun

PS3 don't do bitstream...HD audio

Still pening...
Between BD30 and SR875, who'd do better job on decoding? My guess is SR875, but again....

Will need to try all the mentioned settings above.

I suppose my ear is still not yet HD!!! But I do notice on my 875 display it show all the spk like L,R,CENTRE,SURL,SURR & LFE ( SUB WOOFER ) but the SBL & SBR not light up which seem to meant the source is a 5.1 even when I am watching BD. I thought all BD is in 7.1??? Anyone got AV showing all the 7.1 when watching bd?

BTW tq for all the expert answer! Have a very nice day!

Yup,

Lites should all cum on when its 7.1 odo.. Erm for marantz they hv only lites for a single surr back but its still 7 channel disc odo.. for 5.1 only 5.1 lites cum on la

No not all bds are 7.1 .. go to hidef digest n look for de rvws.. they hv de best rvws on most released movies..

I only hv one 7.1 at de moment - Forbidden Kingdom..

Sound mixing/editing is one thing. If you're watching the same movie, nothing's different in that term. So if the movie got all different tracks, then it will sound different for each tracks.

The most noticeable difference for lossless audio is detail. By the word "LOSSLESS" alone you can esily understand this. Everything is copied directly from the studio master. As I explaiend to my friend before, let's say there's a scene that shows one piece of glass bouncing 10 times on the floor. With lossless audio track (DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, PCM), you'll hear each of the 10 "ting" sound exactly as recorded. But when the studio master is compressed for non-lossless audio track (Dolby Digital, DTS, etc), you may NOT hear the 7th, 8th, 9th or 10th "ting" sound even if you crank it to full volume (are you nuts? ).

That's the difference between lossless and non-lossless. So how about the difference between the lossless audio formats itself?

Each audio laboratory have their own standards for sound imaging, positioning, direction, ambience, etc. These are what make the formats different. They will apply their standards to the studio master while retaining the bit by bit details, meaning it will still be lossless. From my own experience, Dolby is usually be a little softer in their presentation, you may need to increase the volume a little bit (though the Dolby TrueHD on some new titles liek Cloverfiled are really poweful). DTS is more like "in-your-face", it's very hard hitting that some people will say more "ooomph". PCM? They are taken directly from the studio mix, so what's you're listening is exactly as the sound mixer/editors/engineers have done in the studio.

That said, in the end, I don't mind the audio formats anymore. All I care now is that they have lossless tracks on it.

OK, OK..

In theory, using the receiver to decode should be slightly better. Having the player to decode internally and send as PCM will have something called jitter effects. Google for it and you'll have even worse pening lalat!

Most of the New Line titles includes a 7.1 track, and most of recent release from Lionsgate also provides 7.1 tracks. Some HK titles like Dragon Tiger Gate also DTS-HD MA 7.1. Paramount's Top Gun was supplied with DTS-HD MA 6.1 and the newly annoucned Hellboy II from Universal will also hae DTS-HD MA 7.1.

ya,most of the time only DD,when connect with optical out from PS3,but not sure the sources is DTS-HDMA So if the track with DTS-HDMA,it will show DTS even with optical input,right?


i found even both DTS and DTS-HDMA,/True-HD at 5.1,the surround effect on later and the seperation is much more better,especially my sub will definately feel more POWER now

before that i also tot all BDs come with 7.1 but actually not,only few BDs come with 7.1

Bro Aiman, Thank you!!

what you're saying above is.....in order to get Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA from PS3, the audio has to be set on PCM on PS3 setting, even if the AVR has the decoding capability, right?

All tis jargon is just tat.. real life joes wont be able to tell if its 7.1, 6.1 or 5.1 in a blind test.. cum to tink of it , I dont tink I ll be able to either..
Blind.. mind you - not wif de lites of de avr tellin you ..

I m on hidef is most .. foremost for de Pics.. odo is just icin to de cake..

dirtrun, marantz 7002 doesnt have the TrueHD/DTS-MA light to tell you if any of these audio track is on or not.

This post has been edited by rthj: Sep 23 2008, 02:42 PM

ps3 dont do bitstream la so it does de processin n my 7002 just hv spkr lites on.. but its pcm odo la.. for forbidden kingdom all 6 spkr lites cum on d 7002 n its 7.1 odo on de ps3 display..

let's see what i am missing (if there's any) later this evening...i think i've set my ps3 to bitstream.

i have The Assembly with DTS-MA on it. even with the standard DTS, its already ground-shaking.

same gose to mine

rthj, u shud watch the assembly with dts hd ma, dem shiok
set it to pcm

hopefully getting my red cliff by next week also.......hehehe....anyone tried that yet?

So that real life Joe will never get himself into home theater hobby in the first place don't you think? Why bother to spend thousands of ringgit on speakers, subwoofers, and receivers if you can't even tell what you're hearing?

Tell you what, even my wife can tell the difference, the only reason I'm allowed to continue on this expensive hobby.

And I totally disagree, audio is NOT just icing on the cake. Audio represents 50% of movie watching experience. I'm sure you wouldn't want to watch Live Free or Die Hard using your TV's puny stereo speakers.

As far as home audio goes, it's already the best we can get in terms of details, because it's already lossless, meaning bit-by-bit identical to the studio masters. The only way to improve now is the studio remix it to 11 channels, or make separate tracks for music, dialogue, explosions, and background to make it as pure as possible and let the future receivers to mix it onboard (crazy idea ).

For picture, the film masters are scanned and transferred to digital at 4k (2160p) resolution, that is double the resolution of blu-ray (1080p), and your TV! It then downscaled to 1080p before transferring to blu-ray. For digitally shot movies (i.e. Crank), 1080p is the highest they can go, because they are shot natively at that resolution.

So, I'm not worried about blu-ray, a 400GB blu-ray has already been developed. I'm much more worried about our display (TV, projectors, etc), which the highest resolution can be found now is only 1080p.

PS: Dirtrun, you watch your movies blindfolded?

One more thing, you receiver won't lights up DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD when your PS3 already decodes it. The receiver already receives it as PCM, there's no way it could tell the format. So yes, you don't need a receiver with DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD onboard decoding, the PS3 already done it for you. All you need is HDMI input with mulit-channel PCM capability.

This post has been edited by aiman04: Sep 23 2008, 04:26 PM

no money buy redcliff
i heard the audio dem powderful, can try all 3 types

wtf is this redcliff u all talk about? can link plz???

now pewpew time... i disagree greatly with u dirtrun.. i can honestly tell the difference between 7.1 and 5.1. in fact any Man / woman can.. as long as u have the 7 channels.. as for highdef for pics.. well.. that was my initial goal.. all for the pics.. but now with my speakers / woofer and some room treatment.. its more 60/40 with 60 being for sound.. speakers satisfy 2 of my senses, while tv only deals with 1.. and i can easily adapt to wat i see on screen as the 'detail' can easily be exhaustive.. unlike sound..

now back to real life joe.. if u mean average joe.. then the only reason why they couldnt tell the diff between 7.1 and 5.1 is simply because the average joe does not have a 7.1 / 5.1 setup.. as the average joe just stick to the 2.0 speakers from the tv.. now this said.. its not that the average joe couldnt tell the diff so much more so than it is impossible for the average joe to do so as they dont have access to it..

k back to topic.. for me it goes dts hd > pcm > ddthd

yes... PQ also sedap


btw... no one mention kill billie PCM ??

it rockssxss

callmevil, happy shopping
http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-39tn-7...-j-70-2zlr.html

wahh thx rx! finally.. ok hmm quite pedas eh the price.. haha ill wait for it to reach amazon b4 buying it.. heheh

gush..im still undecide wanna buy or not

In theory,if audio signal is decode in AVR should be better then in PS3,rite? Anyone here with PS3 and a decent BD payer can hear the diff,with/without AVR decoding....i hope not much diff cos no more $$$ to buy myself a BD player,B'day oledi lalu


those who cant hear the different is good thing actually becos u oledi save urself a AVR with all those loseless audio

1. got mixed theories on this myqd from pros on this myqd.. some say theres no audible difference btwn ps3 pcm to avr vs bitstream to avr..
2. how can u not hear the difference.. ur sitting there with 7 channels around u.. when the movie is 5 channels u will of curz hear sound coming from where.. then when 7.1 comes up, automatically the sound become more and the sound from behind oso can hear..

actually i put my money into the sound system first....way first before i bought my 1st lcd tv......

11 years ago...started watching movies with DTS tracks on 14" and 20" CRT...muahahahaha.

but now...i still dont have 7.1 speaker setup. too lazy to add the last 2 channels. plus the wiring....a bit of pain in the butt.

how about warlords? anyone tried that? any good?

This post has been edited by rthj: Sep 23 2008, 05:11 PM

Wow,

Ur wife got great ears.. My wife still dont know how to on my gear.. kekeke

Sorry .. tats all ur opinion.. n I humbly beg to differ.. I really cant tell de huge diff tat u find in de new formats.. really

Havin de moola does not make a person an instant expert, dont u think??

Watch movies blindfolded - eh perli ka.. I alrdy said for odo tests.. must test it by 'blind' tests not wif affirmative psychological add ons - read xtra info to back up ur senses.. anyway I m only statin wat most ppl will feel on dis lossless odo format - not tat I agree .. but tats still a fact..
Oso on odo being 50% of movies.. well I hv a lot of old movies in Sd which is mono n I thoroughly enjoy watchin them eg Gods must be crazy .. awfully funny but only 1.0..

Just my humble opinion..
Dirtrun

wife will know the different one...now my wife doesn't want to watch Astro using the Tv's speakers liao....she said sound funny and unnatural.....and for DVD, ori copy still ok, but she prefer blu lar.....

we must poison the other half also, so that our hobby can go on....

thats a dangerous preposition mpyw... dont u think? at least 1 go nuts on hd, the other can keep the one in control.. but if both go nuts.. u might find each other spending more on hd than on other things and even worse in knee deep of debt... haha

i think the best telinga in msia goes to mpyw and familly

warlords still ok

ever wonder why men are so particular about the details in the audio track? but when the gf/wife/mom/etc talks to him, the fella would go....'huh? what did you say just now?"

This post has been edited by rthj: Sep 23 2008, 05:24 PM

selective listener

Coz our wive talks in mono sountrack, masuk telinga kanan keluar telinga kiri but BD has at least 5.1.

hmmmm y first time with gf mono also bcome multichanal

If u have PS3 remote control for Blu-ray u can press DISPLAY button to check the soundtrack info. It will display DTS-HDMA or Dolby TrueHD if PS3 decodes internally.

This post has been edited by fentanyl: Sep 23 2008, 05:37 PM

cuz not the wife pay ma.. the husband pay sure make sure all just as written on the box.. if not waste money nia~~

the gamepad also will do. btw if your output as bitstream. it will only show normal track even u selete hd

cuz ps3 can currently only bitstream lossy.. and 2chan pcm i thinkkk

This post has been edited by callmevil: Sep 23 2008, 05:41 PM

yaloh, hopes its not hw limitation

ok ok....now i am officially poisoned.....now have to survey the walls and see if i can install the last 2 channels of surround speakers.....goddammit.....why did i come to this forum...hehehe

Have u visited The BD thread?

what abt the BD thread?

Just check it out. Link given above.

too many pages to read. plus i dont think i can bulk order with you guys. i am no where in the same location as you guys.

i checked all the HD thread... and fark... i'm dead!

rthj elite punya, no need bulk

woi! rx330....

wouldnt mind tagging along in the bulk orders........but like i said...location is a bit out of the way.


This post has been edited by rthj: Sep 23 2008, 06:26 PM

*2),of cos 7.1 channel and 5.1 got different la,which eye u see i said no diff,hehehe What i said is " is there any diff between PCM ps3 to AVR and bitstream to AVR(that u oledi answer in *1)


another option is press "triangle" button in joystick during playback,choose the last button 2nd row on the right(if not mistaken,then u can see the signal displayed)


This post has been edited by myqd: Sep 23 2008, 06:45 PM

Wah lauehhhhh!!! Even this topic get poisonous! So which BD got 7.1 sound? I need to test it out.

Hahaha on behalf of everyone here, i would like to say, sorry about ur wallet
err liongate is awesome enough to provide almost all of their titles in 7.1 AND SHINY SILVER wrapper ~~ oooo my preciouss~~

Haha.. I hope everybody's clear now about all these audio codecs.

So let the poisoning begins!!!

DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 24-bit/48kHz
Be Kind Rewind
Dark City: Director's Cut
Dark City: Theatrical
Doctor Strange
The Eye
The Golden Compass
Hairspray (2007)
The Orphanage
Pan's Labyrinth
Rambo
(UK) Run Fatboy Run
Rush Hour 3
Saw IV: Unrated Director's Cut
Semi-Pro: Unrated
Shoot 'Em Up

LPCM 7.1 16-bit/48kHz
3:10 to Yuma (2007)
Crank
The Descent: Original Unrated Cut
Dirty Dancing
(HK) Flash Point
(J) Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence
(HK) Protégé
Ultimate Avengers
Ultimate Avengers II
Van Wilder: Unrated
War (2007)

DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 16-bit/48kHz
The Bank Job (2008)
(HK) Dragon Tiger Gate (secondary track is Dolby TrueHD 7.1 16-bit, so can compare)
(HK) Invisible Target (1080p24)
Oldboy

Shinobi: Heart Under Blade Dolby TrueHD 6.1

House of 1000 Corpses DTS-HD High Resolution Audio 7.1 2814Kbps

ur list missing a few titles like crank, harold and kumar 1/2.. and a bunch others..

Wow! No wander none of my bd in the list! Tq very much fo the infor. I wander Transformer got 7.1 or not? My BD haven't arrive yet.

Eh, I meant for the receiver la, not our eyes

There's no way the receiver will know the format.

... adoi... now I'm seriously thinking of the additional two speakers...
.. or get floorstanders for the front and shift the bookshelf to rear....

... next year maybe...

.. or get floorstanders for the front and shift the bookshelf to rear.... YES !

just set the ps3 to lpcm and sampled clips from 'the assembly'....noticed some details missing from the core dts when i had it on bitstream. then again...probably from my noob ears and even more amateurish 5.1 speakers setup.....found spot for the last 2 channels! now just need to find the pair of speakers to use....and the dreaded wiring.

lpcm via hdmi, and dts via bitstream and u heard something missing? hmm maybe its noise.. haha

Eh bro,

Forbidden Kingdom not in ur list??


Dirtrun

This post has been edited by dirtrun: Sep 24 2008, 09:06 AM

I forgot about it bro. I know u have it.

This post has been edited by fentanyl: Sep 24 2008, 09:38 AM

Hey guys,

What is DTS HD of 7.1 speakers set-up ?? Do I need 2 pairs of surround speakers ? What are the effects ?

Also, do I need a HD support AVR to enjoy this 7.1 effect ?

Please advise, thanks.

For PS3, any HDMI receiver that can accept multichannel PCM is sufficient. But better be prepared with the ones that can decode HD audio onboard, who knows you could be buying a standalone BD player that can bitstream HD audio later on (like the Panny BD30).

I am on 7.1 setup now. Later, may be 7.2

Temporary using B&W standmount for rear surr. Right now, still waiting for my sub

On another note, how many of you guys got problem with your speakers while playing these lossless codecs?

This post has been edited by htkaki: Sep 24 2008, 11:25 AM

So u're using 2 subs soon huh? wow,elite memang elite

speaker problem? U mean got "pecah" sound,rite? My Whaffy Diamond center spk suara pecah few times when i watched Tsai Chin in concert the other day....

do u need the 2 subs to be identical?
how do u go to 2 channel for LFE? Can my 875 do it?

Thanks.