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 YTL power, Well managed company

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htt
post Oct 5 2008, 11:12 AM

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QUOTE(darkknight81 @ Oct 4 2008, 05:33 PM)
1. You can get EPS track records from the previous annual financial report.
2. Exercise of warrant to mother shares / distribution of new shares will dilute the EPS as the number of share increased whereas the company earnings still the same. Therefore EPS is diluted.
*
2. Also from convertible loan stock & ESOS.


Added on October 5, 2008, 11:30 amHehe... actually this company is sitting on top of large pile of cash and continue raising cash from loan stocks... I think the reason is rather obvious, but they are well know for buying in value (all those jump floor stocks like Wessex, contrast Maybank rclxms.gif ). Just lose out on bidding for power generator in Singapore but this not hurting them. I think for the to reduce their debt slowly is not their style as they continuing looking for opportunity. This this recession might coming into their strength again. Good one to hold for longer term, but quick gain is unlikely, this is something like 'fired and forget' stock, dividend yield and share distribution is good.

WB is indeed in good valuation right now if someone is going to buy. If I am not mistaken, the period of 10 years can weather through this recession (if it is coming). But you loss out on dividend blush.gif

Hope this will be useful for some and good luck...

p.s. pound issue is not that serious as they finance their operation in UK with pound, pound up or down to them is just currency gain/ loss, personally I think that's ok for me... as they are not going to offload the business in short term... personally only, people with different view point still are welcome to against my personal opinion tongue.gif

This post has been edited by htt: Oct 5 2008, 11:30 AM
htt
post Oct 8 2008, 05:09 PM

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Later you will see the company back back their own share at that pricing tongue.gif
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post Oct 14 2008, 08:27 AM

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Acquire 2 subsidiaries named after electricity & gas in UK, another round of fire buy? hmm.gif
htt
post Oct 14 2008, 10:36 AM

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Doing business with Temasek not necessary a good thing, see what happen to MBB unsure.gif But YTL Power directors are more competent, I think.
And Singapore is going to have open market for power (means no longer monopoly), the deal might not be so lucrative as IPPs have to compete against each other to sell their power (maybe that's the reason why Temasek sell all 3 power plants at once, margin squeeze). Anyway, YTL Power have no hurry to rush in the market (as they boh chap for last 2 bidding losses, guess they are crystal clear with their valuation, those are people we can entrust our money with). Keep it up rclxms.gif


Added on October 14, 2008, 10:39 am
QUOTE(calmwater @ Oct 14 2008, 10:35 AM)
Pursuant to Paragraph 9.19(23) of the Listing Requirements, the Board of Directors of YTL Power International Berhad ("YTL Power” or “the Company") wishes to announce that its indirect wholly-owned subsidiary, Wessex Water Enterprises Limited (“WWEL”), has subscribed for the following:-

(i) 100 shares of £1.00 each representing the entire issued and paid-up share capital of Wessex Electricity Utilities Limited (“WEUL”) for £100 in cash;
and
(ii) 100 shares of £1.00 each representing the entire issued and paid-up share capital of Wessex Gas Utilities Limited (“WGUL”) for £100 in cash.

(collectively, “the Subscriptions”)

As a result of the Subscriptions, WEUL and WGUL have become indirect subsidiaries of YTL Power.

WEUL and WGUL are private limited companies incorporated in the England and Wales, each with authorised share capital of £1,000 comprising 1,000 shares of £1.00 each. WEUL and WGUL will be principally involved in the ownership and operation of gas and electricity infrastructure.
                      From the paragraph above seems like they may use the strong ringgit to invest in Europe. Maybe just to keep that option open. Since the businesses are named after Wessex, the orang putih won't feel bad, we buy over their corporation's. vmad.gif

At the moment those two new entities are "kosong" or just shells, until the Mother, Wessex Water expands into Electricity and Gas distribution in the U.K. or other Euro countries then they can do so using these new names that sound more appropriate for those kind of businesses.
*
True and if I remember correctly, they buy an subsidiary in Singapore for their bidding of Tuas Power (Not very sure, but got 1:2 odd to get the name correct tongue.gif ), but they not succeed for that bidding. What's up for sales in Europe now? brows.gif

This post has been edited by htt: Oct 14 2008, 10:39 AM
htt
post Oct 16 2008, 01:04 PM

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Before they hit the 10% threshold they will announce another treasury share as dividend...
htt
post Oct 16 2008, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(rayloo @ Oct 16 2008, 01:40 PM)
QUOTE(darkknight81)
For the past few years it is 1/25. THIS year is 1/40 which i just received last month.

Aiyo, I just bought in October, meaning I missed ah ? So how ah ? Got to wait next year ? shakehead.gif
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Might not be a good thing... 1/25 follow by another 1/25 follow by another 1/40, here come all the odd lots... tongue.gif
htt
post Oct 16 2008, 05:04 PM

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250 lots a lot of money... whistling.gif

But to be really beneficial from their business model, one need to be a real long term shareholder (buy and keep and wait for dividend after dividend, share distribution after share distribution, warrant after warrant)... yawn.gif
htt
post Oct 16 2008, 05:09 PM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Oct 16 2008, 05:02 PM)
What about treasury shares they are holding  ?  needed for future expansion ?
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They normally distribute them after a period of time. And please note their holding company, YTL Corp, also sell YTL Power share to their shareholders with discount.

YTL got a lot of ESOS, convertible loan stock, warrant to dilute their share also... (but the price always quite reasonable one, consistent with their way of doing business).


Added on October 16, 2008, 5:13 pm
QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Oct 16 2008, 05:08 PM)
So long they do not come back once a year ( 2 years ) to ask you for more money ( right issues ), then not a big issue.
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Think they have all the warrant, ESOS & Convertible to generate cash and lowering gearing for the coming years. Unless they are lucky to find distress asset which they can't swallow, else chances should be low. Their name still quite well receive in terms of fund raising... rclxms.gif

This post has been edited by htt: Oct 16 2008, 05:14 PM
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post Oct 16 2008, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Oct 16 2008, 05:15 PM)
Convertible loan stock is good in the sense that it drains less on Cash piles.

Any default on loan would send prices down ( like KNM ).
*
People don't think that way when time is good leh... but bad time coming...
htt
post Oct 16 2008, 07:10 PM

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EX-date : 05/12/2008
Entitlement date: 10/12/2008
Entitlement time : 05:00:00 PM
Entitlement subject : Final Dividend
Entitlement description:
Final Tax Exempt Dividend of 7.5% in respect of the financial year ended 30 June 2008
htt
post Oct 17 2008, 08:33 AM

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How about looking for other potential similar counter? I believe there are still some good one out there blush.gif
htt
post Oct 17 2008, 11:34 AM

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QUOTE(calmwater @ Oct 17 2008, 10:20 AM)
With the good , bad and ugly all falling, better to wait at the sidelines.

Some good counters look very attractive, such as YTLPOWR and WB, Resorts, Genting, some plantation stocks like HSPLANT and quite a few others.

But the problem at the moment is they continue to fall!!

A famous investor of the old era was once asked of his trading secret and he said " knowing when to keep my hands in my pocket".

At the moment that's what I am doing. Invested some but not too much, with 30%.
*
For some reasons I avoid Resorts & Genting (they might have nothing wrong financially, I didn't study them anyway).
HSPlant concentrate their plantation at Sabah if not mistaken (economical scale of operation), the balance sheet is ok but not rock solid and the track record is not long enough to see the trend. Dividend and cash flow so far ok, but share price goes down with CPO price. Vested.
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post Oct 17 2008, 08:43 PM

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I prefer HSPLANT than IOI, reason being it's simplicity (plantation & mills), those plantation counters rush to biodiesel plant all stuck with them (Indonesia already blending biodiesel into their diesel but Malaysia don't seems to have any action, yet, maybe we busy blending other things). I like Asiatic as well (same reason as HSPLANT. blush.gif

Undeniable, end of the day it still all down to valuation, might need to have serious look on IOI if the market continue heading south... rclxms.gif
htt
post Oct 18 2008, 10:16 AM

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You no need to be 100% correct to earn big money, 80% is a lot more than enough :-p
htt
post Oct 22 2008, 04:01 PM

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QUOTE(skiddtrader @ Oct 22 2008, 03:58 PM)
Doesn't mean anything to me. If you valuate in GBP, the company is still worth the same. And I rather valuate it in GBP rather than RM. Currency exchanges will balance out in the end. No need to worry about it because their loans are in GBPs, so they are hedge against the currency. Their earnings are also in GBP and their loan payments are also in GBP. The higher or lower the GBP  against the RM is has nothing to do whether or not the company is worth more or not, because in terms of GBP, it is still worth the same.

Ask yourself, if someone in Europe or the world would want to valuate the Wessex Water business, would they valuate it in RM or GBP?
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Agree, currency fluctuation only matter if you buy/ sell very often, but YTL Power had been holding Wessex for years liao. No fear... cool2.gif
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post Oct 22 2008, 04:51 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 22 2008, 04:04 PM)
Yes, valuation in GBP still the same.

But for accounting purposes and real transalation into profit, it would be less in term of RM which by any accounting standard, YTLpower need to realise it in term of RM wise as it is reporting in RM financial book.

Valuation can remain the same, if company doesn't opt to revalue it in their balance sheet, but profit wise can't.
*
I think for fixed asset, company can elect alternative which is base on historical value instead of fair value through fixed interval valuation (I like this more, more prudent). If not mistaken, I didn't see YTL Power doing re-valuation in their account, so the impact should be limited to the profit in GBP translated into RM only. Please correct me if I am wrong...

Anyway, foreign currency appreciation gain/ depreciation loss doesn't really matter that much to me, unless we are talking about countries like Zimbabwe (Aussie & NZ also no good).
htt
post Oct 22 2008, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 22 2008, 05:09 PM)
Yes, for fixed asset under balance sheet, if company doesn't opt for revaluation, it can stay at same valuation figure.

Aussie & NZ no good for the last few month and potential in near future. But over the last few decade, RM actually depreciated against them even at current 2.3-2.4 level.
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RM actually depreciate against most of the currencies :-p
By theory, this should be happened to country with bad deficit in balance of payment... Don't know is RM undervalued or... hmm.gif
htt
post Oct 22 2008, 05:25 PM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 22 2008, 05:21 PM)
With this statement, it has already showed that having diversificaiton of asset in others developed countries in the denomination of major currencies is indeed a need.
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Cintalah negaraku. ku sangat cinta samanya... jangan diversify ke negara lain...
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post Oct 23 2008, 10:39 AM

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QUOTE(calmwater @ Oct 23 2008, 10:24 AM)
I have a question. What happens when a warrant price has dissapeared from the radar, meaning to say it has gone to zero and later the mother share rises again from the ashes, does the warrant become valuable again or is it toilet paper for good, meaning to say it has been flushed down the toilet and it is gone forever. sweat.gif

I know that doesn't make sense, but just want to confirm. hmm.gif
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I think the minimum is 0.5 cent, it won't fall below that (No one will go to stock exchange and offer to sell their share/ warrant for 0 cent and pay commission etc, right?). Even if someone did that, the warrant will still recover its value if the ordinary share gain back ground.

If anyone is going to sell warrant to me at 0 cent, I will be more than welcome at the receiving end... money come money come... rclxms.gif
htt
post Oct 23 2008, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Oct 23 2008, 11:29 AM)
No, I disagree on this factor (not mean GBP won't rise or plunge), just olympic or not won't be a major factor in determine the currency, economy or stock market. It has to do with macro-economy and external factor. Currency is sensitive to interest rate and economy growth and health of country financial situation. It (olympic) has some stimulus effect but it is not the major driving force.

We had enough previous myth or popular talk of buying China stocks because of Olympics, which I find a lame excuse long before. Sorry no offence. smile.gif
As long as the warrant has not expired, then yes.
Even at 0.005, it is still not make sense to sell in few lots. 10 lots (x100) x 0.005 = Rm5., minus min commission (Rm8.88 or Rm12 or Rm28 or Rm40), you still ended up with -ve figure.  biggrin.gif What for?  whistling.gif
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Hehe... I mean 0 cent, then I just pay RM0 for the share/ warrant (but need to pay minimum commission, I think government will have difficulty to calculate stamp duty), why not? So long the warrant not going to expire soon, YTL-WB valid until 2018 I think.

Stop day dreaming... getting into business instead... cry.gif

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