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 YTL power, Well managed company

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htt
post Oct 24 2008, 09:32 AM

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Seems some of us are very concern about the translation of GBP into RM issue. I took some pains to browse through their annual report to actually look into their treatment of their foreign associate/ subsidiary company. From my understanding, the fluctuation of value due to exchange rate will not directly affecting the income statement. Instead the gain/ loss on fair value will be reflected on the equity in balance sheet. The effect will only be reflected into income statement if that's realized under the financial year.

In short, it means rise or fall of GBP will not have a very material impact on the earning (but it's still significant as the earning of foreign subsidiaries/ associates will be translated with current rate). The changes of fair value for net asset (assets - liabilities) in foreign countries will not be impacting income statement, this is to prevent fluctuation of profit due to currency fluctuation which might not have great impact on the business if they intended to continue to hold the subsidiaries/ associates in longer term (with no visibility to sell them).

Hope my opinion useful. Please correct me if I am wrong. tongue.gif
htt
post Oct 26 2008, 03:36 PM

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As per my understanding, that means income from Wessex (70% of their profit) will take a hit of approx. 20% (14% of total profit) if GBP is to depreciate by 20% (which is the situation right now); a drop of 14% in profit is deem to be acceptable by most of us I guess (we are going to see drop of >50% or even profit -> loss in coming months for other companies). Profit/ Loss of disposal of acquisition (Wessex) will only recorder after disposal (which is still to far to be foreseeable).

But again, now might not be the best time to hurry into market (even for YTL Power also), they might going further down.
htt
post Oct 27 2008, 12:18 AM

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QUOTE(ante5k @ Oct 26 2008, 11:59 PM)
First 700MW starts on 1/1/2009 and second 700MW starts on 1/7/2009.
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Some countries just plan for tomorrow, not the days after tomorrow, we have to live with that, relax... shocking.gif
htt
post Oct 27 2008, 09:06 PM

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QUOTE(darkknight81 @ Oct 27 2008, 12:37 PM)
It is very unlikely that it will happened though. Further more, i wonder YTL power itself want to expand their business in malaysia or not ?  laugh.gif They are more interest on expanding on Singapore, China Australia.
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Don't think so, seems they stop expansion in Malaysia years ago, that's will be surprise if they will come back again... unless that's really attractive for them to do so...
htt
post Oct 31 2008, 11:21 AM

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QUOTE(skiddtrader @ Oct 31 2008, 10:33 AM)
Yeah, the most profitable power company in SG was the 1st one sold which is Tuas Power and that was sold at USD 4bil, next was the biggest and that was sold for USD 3.5bil. I think this one USD 3 bil or below should be around there. And the fact that the parent company Temasek will also arrange for finances is a bonus.
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Singapore is going to liberalize the power market later on, after government sold all their power plants. That means power plants will fight among themselves to get customers (end customer can choose to buy power from one of the 3 big power gen and possibly some smaller players, weighted in their offer price etc). This might be bad if recession hit Singapore (extra power generation capacity, that will create a cut throat market for power gen). I think that's the reason why Singapore government want to offload all their power gen, their government hardly loss money one, history told us (BII just reminded us again).
htt
post Oct 31 2008, 04:48 PM

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QUOTE(skiddtrader @ Oct 31 2008, 04:08 PM)
Yes, Darkknight81 is right, each genco is only able to supply about 30% or so electricity. Only certain sections or area will be liberalise to competition among the gencos, not the entire island. More worrying is that Sembawang Corp once said if it doesn't get any of the 3 being sold, it will built it's own power station.
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If I am not mistaken, the government is talking about full liberalization (consumer & industry alike). During boom time, there might not be spare capacity, but if Singapore go into recession, then the big power sucker might shut down and leaving a lot of spare for the 3 to grab. One thing funny in Singapore is, when there is a few companies fighting in a liberalize sector, they always work in some form of cartel to gain the maximum profit from consumer e.g. bus & mrt & taxi (but bus & mrt ultimately belong to the same group of people, majority of taxis as well). Singaporean are looking forward for the liberalization hoping there might be some cost saving for them, and government offload all their power gen almost at the same time make the thing fishy.

Under a fair market, efficiency is very important, but noting not all 3 power gen have the same efficiency, so the less one might not be benefiting from that. Just my guess only.
htt
post Nov 3 2008, 12:16 PM

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QUOTE(darkknight81 @ Nov 3 2008, 11:37 AM)
Yup. Remember the money are being raise from the warrants.

I am waiting to offload my warrant B to buy the more mother share
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Why not just convert WB instead? I think that still come with premium tongue.gif
htt
post Nov 11 2008, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(spriggan @ Nov 11 2008, 05:08 PM)
i will hold untill march. but i know nothing about this stock. just know they will be a sharebuy back... so seek advice from SIFU
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Forget about that then. You might lose to the broker. tongue.gif
htt
post Nov 15 2008, 08:43 PM

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QUOTE(simplesmile @ Nov 15 2008, 08:24 PM)
How many ordinary shares are there now?

What is warrant A and warrant B?
How many additional shares if all these warrants convert to ordinary shares?

Please help. I want to calculate the diluted EPS.
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Only one type or ordinary share.

They not only have warrant A & B, but convertible loan stock & ESOS (all need to be taken into consideration). And share price also have some influence to the diluted EPS. Easiest way to get diluted EPS (not so update one, true as when they publish the report) is from their Financial Statement. You can get from http://www.klse.com.my/website/bm/listed_c.../historical.jsp.

Think myself get carry away too much, my apology to anyone who might get offended by my previous quote. But to calculate diluted EPS is not that straight forward as imagined. Interest party can do some reading at http://www.asc.gov.sg/frs/attachments/2004/FRS_33_2007.pdf. But that's Singapore's FRS, Malaysian one shouldn't be differ much (think we never bother to change anything unless really needed tongue.gif ).

Sunday coming rclxub.gif

This post has been edited by htt: Nov 15 2008, 09:17 PM
htt
post Nov 20 2008, 08:34 PM

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If someone want to know the the fully diluted earning, go to the last page of the financial statement.
And please note the keyword 'Effect', the effect is not constant.
Happy reading.

htt
post Nov 20 2008, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(darkknight81 @ Nov 20 2008, 08:37 PM)
If more warrant being converted the EPS will be diluted further.
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Actually more dominant factor will be the ordinary share price than no. of warrant exercise. You can see the ESOS hardy exercise but the effect reduce quite substantially, just as an example only. Anyway, I leave this thing to their expert aka I don't care that much tongue.gif
htt
post Nov 20 2008, 08:54 PM

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QUOTE(darkknight81 @ Nov 20 2008, 08:45 PM)
1 warrant B for every 3 mother share so is about 33% of dilution to the EPS...Impact is very great consider the cash being raised stay stagnant there... So in order to enhance the EPS good acquisition must take place ASAP.


Added on November 20, 2008, 8:47 pm

Short term maybe bad. I can say if look at long term is definitely good especially country like UK and Australia which their currency has slide a lot against RM...
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Hehe... they use money from warrant to do stock buy back leh... tongue.gif But I think warrant holder won't all go convert in one shot one... relax... worst can be, ordinary share price lower than conversion price then warrant virtually worth nothing, touch wood... Maybe we belong to different camp tongue.gif I no issue for diluted EPS because I hold both ordinary share & warrant B at the same time. Just my 2 cents.
htt
post Dec 2 2008, 08:07 PM

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I think this is what people are waiting for:

http://biz.thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?f...28&sec=business

YTL Power buying Singapore power plant for S$3.8b
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post Dec 3 2008, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(SKY 1809 @ Dec 3 2008, 06:50 PM)
Waw,

Spending RM 8.57 billion just to improve 1sen to EPS to the bottom line.

YTL's  Power was sucked up by Temasek.

Temasek Boleh.
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I think the deal still have some meat, look at long term mah tongue.gif
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post Dec 3 2008, 07:27 PM

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QUOTE(darkknight81 @ Dec 3 2008, 07:06 PM)
It is quite high indeed as i mentioned earlier the ROI is about 6.5%

But improve EPS of 1 sen only i disagree lol

For your information, YTL power net profit is bout RM1.3 billion

Seraya net profit is about RM 500 MILLION

Considering EPS of 15 sen for ytl power. Thus after the acquisition the EPS should be around 20 sen
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Need to deduct interest one, not so much lah. tongue.gif Need to take out the FD interest on the cash portion also tongue.gif
htt
post Dec 3 2008, 10:12 PM

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QUOTE(darkknight81 @ Dec 3 2008, 08:43 PM)
I beliv they will use most of the earnings from seraya to pay off the liability as soon as possible thats y the net profit of 76 million come from. Pls advice if i am wrong as i don have any accounting back ground still learning  notworthy.gif

I beliv power plant business you got to keep on upgrading your equipment to make sure the efficiency of your plant. If you look at ytl powr financial report. there is a section mentioning about cost for upgrading the power plant to improve the efficiency. Where as the the leasing, i beliv 99% can be renewed if not they will be informed at least 10 years before hand. As i know for wessex water leasing , if the contract cannot be renewed ytl power will be informed at least 20 years beforehand.
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The interest will be deducted out, add back the tax shield. But capital repayment will not be deducted from profit.

The upgrading part is true, but there is major upgrading part which will be important after a fixed period, let's say 30 years. For generator, the turbine is the main part, need to be overhaul after certain period and after 30 years (most of the time less), it will be more cost efficient to replace new one.
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post Dec 4 2008, 08:48 AM

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QUOTE(darkknight81 @ Dec 3 2008, 10:23 PM)
I beliv from the first few years we cannot see the contribution from seraya as i beliv maybe 90% or more of the earnings is being used to pay the debts just like you have housing loan....paying more to reduce the principle first.
Same like Wessex water, after the acquisition on 2002 it only contributed less than 10% , for 2003 contributed less than 50%. Whereas it contribute about 70% today on the ytl power net profits.
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Didn't check for their financing term, but should be something like this (there are possibility of other financing in other way too).
Summary: Continue to sleep with my YTL PWR & WB yawn.gif
htt
post Dec 4 2008, 10:41 PM

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QUOTE(darkknight81 @ Dec 4 2008, 08:58 PM)
Actually hope some one to pin point if there are mistakes in my analysis.
i don hold any warrant at the moment all sell off and bought mother share for the dividend. In short term (3 years) i beliv we cannot see ytl power share price to soar so better switch all to mother share and get the dividend. My strategy is to accumulate my dividend and buy the warrant whe the share price dip further for example i target 40 sen to enter warrant B. If the share price dip better buy warrant as you get higher return during rebound.  laugh.gif
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Actually their statement conflicting each other.
1. They said depreciation will generate cash flow to pay off the loan.
2. After the asset fully depreciate, where is the 2.25bil to be constitute into their equity.
But after all, the deal should be beneficial, just to what extent and the rate only.
Just my 2 cents.
htt
post Dec 4 2008, 10:44 PM

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QUOTE(Kinitos @ Dec 4 2008, 09:14 PM)
Your plan should include Capital Risk Management & Position sizing.

The dividend payout & share price are related. Everything that people knows about the company is reflected in the share price.
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Although that might be true theoretically, but the market is never perfect for the theory to be fully applicable.
also beta will be very hard to predict accurately and it's not static as the model suggest. market return rate & risk-free rate also.
But still they are related, also a lot of analysts are advising their clients on those models tongue.gif

This post has been edited by htt: Dec 4 2008, 10:49 PM
htt
post Dec 7 2008, 01:02 AM

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QUOTE(June_llk @ Dec 6 2008, 08:15 PM)
Hi Hi..

I am June, a supporter and Minor for YTL Power as well...

Nice to meet you guys...

Below are some of my analysis on latest acquisition:

First YTL power still have  RM 11-2.6= RM 8.6bil to play

EV inc net debt= S$3.8bil, EBITDA of Seraya is abt S$350mil (FY08)
So it's acquisition price is about 11 X EBITDA

Let's compare with Senoko bought by Marubeni n the gang
EV inc net debt=S$3.95bil (pls correct me if im wrong), EBITDA of Senoko is S$240mil (FY08)
It 16.5 X of EBITDA

Tuas bought by Huaneng at EV=S$4.3bil, EBITDA of Tuas is S$330mil (FY07)
So they are paying 13.3 X of EBITDA

So YTL bought it much cheaper than the rest...

In MW basis,

Seraya 3100MW, YTL pays S$1.23mil/MW
Senoko 3300MW, Marubeni & gang pays S$1.2mil/MW
Tuas 2670MW, Huaneng pays S$1.6mil/MW

On MW basis, YTL seems on par with Marubeni, but Seraya is currently building 800MW cogen.
So if we include that, YTL pays S$0.97mil/MW

Plus, Seraya is in Jurong island, has multiutilities capabilities like provide steam sales, provide water via desal plant etc (Unlike Senoko and Tuas)

Net profit increase of RM76mil maybe just a conservative projection, maybe double as well.
Feel free to comment..

Cheers,
June
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Cannot count like that, new cogen also need to pay one leh. hmm.gif

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