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 NETWORK ATTACHED STORAGE (NAS), old thread closed. please open a new one

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thankyou
post Oct 18 2010, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE
Forgot to mention that HP came out with a service advisory on the N36L.

http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechS...rodTypeId=15351

Basically it shows how to enable NCQ and Write Cache on the RAID array from RaidXpert program.
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Thanks for the tips! I haven't get my 4 x 2TB HDD as I want to make sure what kind of application I want to run besides having this Microserver serving as NAS.

I had installed VMware ESXi on USB and let it run on internal USB slot. So far it has been running 3 days without smoothly. I've installed downloaded and installed OpenVPN AS at the moment and will proceed to install Windows 2k8 on top of ESXi.

I think its good idea to have 160GB HDD running as boot disk. I might consider that.

Btw, Since you are running raid 0, how do you get your data back up? Do you set it to 4 HDD in RAID 0 cluster? If only they support RAID 1+0 it would be great!
jchue73
post Oct 18 2010, 05:32 PM

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QUOTE(thankyou @ Oct 18 2010, 03:33 PM)
Thanks for the tips! I haven't get my 4 x 2TB HDD as I want to make sure what kind of application I want to run besides having this Microserver serving as NAS.

I had installed VMware ESXi on USB and let it run on internal USB slot. So far it has been running 3 days without smoothly. I've installed downloaded and installed OpenVPN AS at the moment and will proceed to install Windows 2k8 on top of ESXi.

I think its good idea to have 160GB HDD running as boot disk. I might consider that.

Btw, Since you are running raid 0, how do you get your data back up? Do you set it to 4 HDD in RAID 0 cluster? If only they support RAID 1+0 it would be great!
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It's very unfortunate that one cannot get Server 2008 R2 to run on the USB stick. biggrin.gif Installing ESXi is cool but Server 2008 R2 has Hyper V too. Haven't played with it. Should be interesting.

I made a Ghost image of the OS partition and the hidden partition as well. Should be fast to restore it if required. I actually had to do clean installs a few times because of screw ups. It was fast installing from the USB thumbdrive vs DVD drive but still require some time too. Learned my lesson already.

Yes, 4 hardisks on RAID 0. Oh, for back ups, I do it online. They are not important data anyway. biggrin.gif If I were to allocate backup space, I'll go broke.
icelc
post Oct 18 2010, 07:31 PM

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QUOTE(jchue73 @ Oct 18 2010, 11:31 AM)
Didn't the guy at the shop fix the DVD writer for you? They did it for me. It took a while though because of the torq screws and because it's quite small space. Now, I have already taken the DVD writer out because I needed the top space to put the 160GB Seagate boot drive there to make space for the 4 Samsung F4EGs at the bottom.

Anyway, I'm also a newbie. I've no experience with Vail. A little bt of experience in Windows Server. Still learning. Partitioning was a breeze as I used a single 8TB partition and devided to different share directories.

The reason I went with Server 2008 instead of Home Server on this machine is because I can take advantage of the motherboard RAID. This is also the reason why I was not too happy with the Acer as you'll be stuck with Home Server.


Added on October 18, 2010, 11:33 am

Fan noise is very silent. I can only hear the 4 Samsung F4EG hardisk writing / reading if I put my ear in front of the casing. I don't have any equipment to measure power consumption but for a NAS with a CPU, it should still be pretty low. The Motherboard Monitor software does not really recognise the board / chip but it reads 5.1W at idle and max 9.1W.

I don't have many people connected to the server. I find it plenty fast for my use. I stream 1080p mkv files and even 40Mbit Bluray .m2ts files at 24p to my 46" LCD over wired LAN with no problems while simultaneously running Winrar to achieve files on the RAID 0 array in the background. If I'm not wrong, HP says the N36L is suited for small business not more than 10 people. I was looking for good read and write NAS performance and I find the network performance very good. From the Bandwidth Monitor program, the throughput easily hits the 1GBit LAN limit when transferring files from my other desktop to the server.

Check out some pics and review here;

http://www.tenniswood.co.uk/technology/rev...rver/#more-6595

http://www.tenniswood.co.uk/technology/win...nce-comparison/
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Thanks for the feedback. Btw is the 1Gb ram provided sufficient for win server 2008 or we need to upgrade more? How much is to upgrade it?

You stream over ethernet cable directly or via wifi/homeplug?
jchue73
post Oct 18 2010, 08:09 PM

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I'm running 1 + 2 = 3GB memory. 2GB DDR3 was about RM 100 plus. I installed Server 2008 R2 with 3GB from the start. So I do not have an idea how it performs with 1GB. But I believe still manageable. Even though Server 2008 R2 will run since it meets the minimum requirements, it does not hurt to give more RAM.

As for connection, I always believe in direct wired cable connection. Don't use Wifi for HD streaming. I have a CAT6 cable connected via Cisco GB switch.
icelc
post Oct 18 2010, 10:20 PM

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QUOTE(jchue73 @ Oct 18 2010, 08:09 PM)
I'm running 1 + 2 = 3GB memory. 2GB DDR3 was about RM 100 plus. I installed Server 2008 R2 with 3GB from the start. So I do not have an idea how it performs with 1GB. But I believe still manageable. Even though Server 2008 R2 will run since it meets the minimum requirements, it does not hurt to give more RAM.

As for connection, I always believe in direct wired cable connection. Don't use Wifi for HD streaming. I have a CAT6 cable connected via Cisco GB switch.
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I see. Its hard to run a CAT6 cable because my server is upstair while I want to connect to my ps3 downstair. I was looking into homeplug solution but there is no gurantee it works. Anyway I've tried with WIFI and it is jerky.
ozak
post Oct 18 2010, 11:21 PM

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There is AV type homeplug in market now. The speed is faster. It specially for AV.

WIFI N type not fast enough?
ianthow
post Oct 18 2010, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Oct 18 2010, 03:01 PM)
Is it your streaming is from synology NAS --> router --> media player --> TV ?

I m using this way. But cannot play the file. I only can see the folder and the file. When try to play it, it keep skip to another file.
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To the best of my knowledge, that's the way my friend's setup his system... is it due to the slow (low spec) media player or not enough throughput from NAS -> Router or Router -> Mediaplayer?


Added on October 18, 2010, 11:59 pm
QUOTE(jchue73 @ Oct 18 2010, 03:07 PM)
I measured 1080p full Bluray m2ts files and they need to be streamed at around 5MB/s or so. The 1080p mkv are much lower at 2 or 3MB/s depending on the decoding. So it's quite light on the network actually. A 100MBit network is more than enough. I decent NAS like from Synology should be able to stream at that speed. So my guess is it's the media player? What player is that?

My playback is through mediaplayer on the PC. I built a SFF Lian Li cube PC V351 and put it in the cabinet near the TV. At that time, I was tempted to buy the small dedicated media players but decided to build a PC for that because of more playback flexibility and because at that time, the dedicated media players were VERY expensive. I will try and stream 1080p HD stuff through my WD Player and see how it goes.

Anyway, I decided on the HP Microserver for my NAS needs not solely for smooth HD playback but because of these 5 things;

1. I can put 4 hardisk in for the ever growing need for space.
2. It's fast when I transfer and store TB of files over the network.
3. It's relatively cheap.
4. It's flexible because of the OS.
5. It's relatively small (smaller than my Lian Li PC V351).

Else, a good Gigabit network backbone and a cheap NAS solution would be fine just for normal HD mkv playback.

I wanted a 4 bay because I already had 2 units of 2-bay NAS (Linksys NMH300 and Buffalo LinkStation Duo) filled up with 2TB hardisks. While the Buffalo was fast and problem free, the Linksys always disconnected when you write big files to it. Reading is fine.


Let me know your findings ok? I would like to know whether that is dues to NAS/router low throughput or slow dedicated media player, thanks!

This post has been edited by ianthow: Oct 18 2010, 11:59 PM
denhock
post Oct 19 2010, 09:32 AM

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QUOTE(ianthow @ Oct 18 2010, 11:56 PM)
To the best of my knowledge, that's the way my friend's setup his system... is it due to the slow (low spec) media player or not enough throughput from NAS -> Router or Router -> Mediaplayer?


Added on October 18, 2010, 11:59 pm

Let me know your findings ok? I would like to know whether that is dues to NAS/router low throughput or slow dedicated media player, thanks!
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which model of NAS u use? if you use synology NAS year 2010 model.. ( model ended with x10 series) , it can support from 35MB/s up to 140MB/s with gigabit connection.

another way to test is play the same media file with your NB/PC. if it work this mean ur network and NAS is ok. than the limitation will be on your media player ( normally is not enough buffer -memory in your player)
jchue73
post Oct 19 2010, 10:44 AM

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QUOTE(icelc @ Oct 18 2010, 10:20 PM)
I see. Its hard to run a CAT6 cable because my server is upstair while I want to connect to my ps3 downstair. I was looking into homeplug solution but there is no gurantee it works. Anyway I've tried with WIFI and it is jerky.
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Ok, understood. Between homeplug and Wifi, stick with homeplug.

If I knew about homeplugs back then, I would have used it instead. Setting up the CAT6 was a little tedious as I had to drill holes through the wall and had to do it when wifey was not around. biggrin.gif


Added on October 19, 2010, 10:46 am
QUOTE(ozak @ Oct 18 2010, 11:21 PM)
There is AV type homeplug in market now. The speed is faster. It specially for AV.

WIFI N type not fast enough?
*
It's not about speed. Especially not burst speeds. It's about sustained speeds which even the best Wifi N tend to drop. The highest 1080p mkv encode would probably set you for not more than 3MB/s. A full m2ts Bluray would be about 5MB/s throughput. So in theory, Wifi G would be enough too but not.


Added on October 19, 2010, 10:46 am
QUOTE(denhock @ Oct 19 2010, 09:32 AM)
which model of NAS u use? if you use synology NAS year 2010 model.. ( model ended with x10 series) , it can support from 35MB/s up to 140MB/s with gigabit connection.

another way to test is play the same media file with your NB/PC. if it work this mean ur network and NAS is ok. than the limitation will be on your media player ( normally is not enough buffer -memory in your player)
*
That's a good suggestion. Play the file with the PC.

140MB/s? Faster than Gigabit speed?

This post has been edited by jchue73: Oct 19 2010, 10:46 AM
ianthow
post Oct 19 2010, 12:09 PM

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QUOTE(denhock @ Oct 19 2010, 09:32 AM)
which model of NAS u use? if you use synology NAS year 2010 model.. ( model ended with x10 series) , it can support from 35MB/s up to 140MB/s with gigabit connection.

another way to test is play the same media file with your NB/PC. if it work this mean ur network and NAS is ok. than the limitation will be on your media player ( normally is not enough buffer -memory in your player)
*
I have no idea which model he is using, he told me that it is a Synology NAS. I actually suspect the problem lies with his mediaplayer and I would like to know whether anyone here experienced the same problem.


Added on October 19, 2010, 12:20 pmJust checked with my friend, his is a 2 bay DS209...

This post has been edited by ianthow: Oct 19 2010, 12:20 PM
qwerty79
post Oct 20 2010, 10:00 PM

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I read a few pages back but still can't decide which NAS is better.

My department decide to buy a dedicated storage server for sharing files. The files include office files (excel, word, pdf etc.) and some video. All users (up to 6 users) use varieties of windows OS from XP to Win 7 and most have only basic IT knowledge so most probably they only know how to use ms office and internet browsing.

Currently, we are using shared folder but I found out it not really user friendly and some how slow. For some computer, it hard to get connected.

So, anyone can suggest me a good NAS or may be a microserver which is easier to manage and easier to access files from end userpc? Looking for 2 bays although 500gb of storage is actually more than enough.

This post has been edited by qwerty79: Oct 20 2010, 11:04 PM
ozak
post Oct 20 2010, 11:39 PM

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QUOTE(qwerty79 @ Oct 20 2010, 10:00 PM)
I read a few pages back but still can't decide which NAS is better.

My department decide to buy a dedicated storage server for sharing files. The files include office files (excel, word, pdf etc.) and some video. All users (up to 6 users) use varieties of windows OS from XP to Win 7 and most have only basic IT knowledge so most probably they only know how to use ms office and internet browsing.

Currently, we are using shared folder but I found out it not really user friendly and some how slow. For some computer, it hard to get connected.

So, anyone can suggest me a good NAS or may be a microserver which is easier to manage and easier to access files from end userpc? Looking for 2 bays although 500gb of storage is actually more than enough.
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qnap and synology should be good enough. Get the 2bay type for backup. Easy to use and can access anytime, anywhere and any OS.

My office and spore branch use synology. Have been using 3yrs now.
qwerty79
post Oct 21 2010, 01:23 AM

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QUOTE(ozak @ Oct 20 2010, 11:39 PM)
qnap and synology should be good enough. Get the 2bay type for backup. Easy to use and can access anytime, anywhere and any OS.

My office and spore branch use synology. Have been using 3yrs now.
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Which model you use?
ozak
post Oct 21 2010, 08:02 AM

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QUOTE(qwerty79 @ Oct 21 2010, 01:23 AM)
Which model you use?
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My office using ds107+. Spore branch using ds207. And my home using ds409+.

Any model will do as long it is 2bay. All the model access the OS and setup is same.
denhock
post Oct 21 2010, 10:27 AM

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Added on October 19, 2010, 10:46 am

That's a good suggestion. Play the file with the PC.

140MB/s? Faster than Gigabit speed?
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[/quote]

this is for DS1010+ with (Link Aggregation) ( tune up 2 Gigabit port), if without Link Aggregation than 107MB/s will be the best speed.


user posted image


Added on October 21, 2010, 10:30 am
QUOTE(qwerty79 @ Oct 20 2010, 10:00 PM)
I read a few pages back but still can't decide which NAS is better.

My department decide to buy a dedicated storage server for sharing files. The files include office files (excel, word, pdf etc.) and some video. All users (up to 6 users) use varieties of windows OS from XP to Win 7 and most have only basic IT knowledge so most probably they only know how to use ms office and internet browsing.

Currently, we are using shared folder but I found out it not really user friendly and some how slow. For some computer, it hard to get connected.

So, anyone can suggest me a good NAS or may be a microserver which is easier to manage and easier to access files from end userpc? Looking for 2 bays although 500gb of storage is actually more than enough.
*
from your requirement above, we will like to suggest you to use:

1) Synology DS210j
2) QNAP TS210

both should be able to serve you...

but if you like to have more faster speed than:

3) Synology DS210+
4) Synology DS710+
5) QNAP TS259PRO+

will be better.



This post has been edited by denhock: Oct 21 2010, 10:30 AM
mercindustries
post Oct 25 2010, 10:55 AM

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QUOTE(jchue73 @ Oct 18 2010, 08:09 PM)
I'm running 1 + 2 = 3GB memory. 2GB DDR3 was about RM 100 plus. I installed Server 2008 R2 with 3GB from the start. So I do not have an idea how it performs with 1GB. But I believe still manageable. Even though Server 2008 R2 will run since it meets the minimum requirements, it does not hurt to give more RAM.

As for connection, I always believe in direct wired cable connection. Don't use Wifi for HD streaming. I have a CAT6 cable connected via Cisco GB switch.
*
Hi just bought this server yesterday, I must say very impressed with it. rclxms.gif The Micron RAM that came with it, is it unbuffered or ECC?
thankyou
post Oct 25 2010, 11:51 AM

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Yes, I think its Non-ECC ram... Just get normal RAM will do... I'm waiting for DDR3 to drop a lil bit more to get another stick of 1 x 4GB

8GB of total.. though I know it will be under utilise...

Btw, does anyone know how much difference in VM performance comparing between VMware ESXi and Windows 2008 Hyper-V?
aleluya
post Oct 25 2010, 02:14 PM

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Just got myself a Buffalo Linkstation Live biggrin.gif

Gotta say it's good for network storage and as a media server.

Very fast even I stream from it to my ps3/iphone smile.gif
jchue73
post Oct 25 2010, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(mercindustries @ Oct 25 2010, 10:55 AM)
Hi just bought this server yesterday, I must say very impressed with it. rclxms.gif  The Micron RAM that came with it, is it unbuffered or ECC?
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Congrats. Perhaps we should start a mini club. biggrin.gif Very satisfied with the peformance too. On real world large file transfers, I'm getting about 119MB/s read and about 110MB/s writes on the RAID 0 array.

No idea on the memroy but I recall HP's website stating that the Microserver supports only Unbuffered ECC. So I think the 1MB DDR3 that comes with the Microserver is indeed ECC. I'm lazy to take out and check but if it's convenient for you, you could take dow the part number on the Micron stick (saw the sticker on the module in the shop while the guy was taking out the motherboard tray) and google for it.

Anyway, this was actually the draw back because ECC modules are hard to get and expensive. So to test it out, I asked the shop to put in ordinary DDR3 memory and it booted up ! Thought that if it didn't work, it would give me grounds not to proceed with the purchase since the shop claimes it works with ordinary DDR3.


Added on October 25, 2010, 3:39 pm
QUOTE(thankyou @ Oct 25 2010, 11:51 AM)
Yes, I think its Non-ECC ram... Just get normal RAM will do... I'm waiting for DDR3 to drop a lil bit more to get another stick of 1 x 4GB

8GB of total.. though I know it will be under utilise...

Btw, does anyone know how much difference in VM performance comparing between VMware ESXi and Windows 2008 Hyper-V?
*
Wah... 8GB? drool.gif No idea lah on the ESXi vs Hyper V. I'm not too advanced.

Anyway, I'm trying to check if the eSATA connection at the back of the HP Microserver supports port multiplication. If yes, can get another 4 bay eSATA box to hook it up. nod.gif


Added on October 25, 2010, 3:40 pm
QUOTE(aleluya @ Oct 25 2010, 02:14 PM)
Just got myself a Buffalo Linkstation Live biggrin.gif

Gotta say it's good for network storage and as a media server.

Very fast even I stream from it to my ps3/iphone smile.gif
*
If it's anything like the Buffalo Linkstation Duo, the performance is very good. It never drops off the network and it's very consistant. Highly recommended.

This post has been edited by jchue73: Oct 25 2010, 03:43 PM
mercindustries
post Oct 25 2010, 04:00 PM

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did you mix the existing micron ram with unbuffered ram? very easy to see whether it is ecc ram or not, just slide out the ram and count the ram chips, if it's in odd number means its ECC, if even means normal unbuffered. anyway gonna slide out my tray tonight to confirm.

do tell us if port multiplication works smile.gif

ESXi vs Hyper-V, it really depends what guest os you want to run on it and what do you want to have it function as both have their strengths but personally for me i would go for ESXi

as for me im still in dilemma whether to linux softraid5 mdadm+lvm or freebsd/solaris zfs raidz, havent gotten the disks to build array yet tongue.gif

oh yeah anybody bought care pack for this server? a little worried with proprietory hardware so thinking of upgrading it to 3yrs warranty. I've been quoted RM160 which is quite ok compared to the pricing of the extension price i pay for Thinkpads.

This post has been edited by mercindustries: Oct 25 2010, 04:06 PM

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