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[Home Appliances] Air-con Household
PJusa
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Aug 14 2009, 08:55 PM
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mzms, great guide and very true. EER is the key. i used to use carrier only cause they had the highest EER. now switching one by one to inverter cause they run 24/7 ar 28°. very comfy actually and this does save a lot money. in general cooling the room moderately saves a lot and you tend to freeze less too
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PJusa
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Aug 16 2009, 02:28 PM
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just to let you guys know one important issue about inverters: you cant simply compare the power rating. if the inverter a/c is running at below maximum its more efficient than normal a/c. so much in fact that you can EER of 14-15. if you compare this with EER 10 it means 40-50% less electricity usage. even with low usage (but daily not only when super hot, 20x a year) you will have substantial savings.
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PJusa
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Mar 6 2010, 04:26 PM
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i guess the answer would be it depends on the units EER at specific loads. if you have an inverter which is very efficient at lower loads then you would be best of by using it on lower settings for a longer period. for example i set all my inverter a/c in the house to 28° but i never off them. if you have a regular aircon which only has full load or none then you might be better off running it for the shortest period of time but under _continous_ full load. avoid on/off. i hope this helps a bit.
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PJusa
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Mar 7 2010, 06:01 PM
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wdarke,
1x2 HP inverter 1x1,5 HP inverter 2x1 HP inverter 2x1 HP non inverter (high EER)
monthly bill (no cheating) 300-350 if we are at home the whole month. 350 if got mostly hot days, normal is closer to 300. but we did spend extra $$ on good insulated windows, good outer door and insulated the ceiling. so it's not just energy efficient units that do the trick.. it's the combination of all the little things.
for your information (and to allow for better comparison) we are basically we are cooling down 24.000 cubic feet of air in the house. this means (forgetting all other appliances like fridges oven PC etc.) cooling one cubic foot of air costs me less than 1.5 sen per month with a 350 bill. if i assume i also spend around 50-75 bucks for other appliances then the figure is even better but i just dont have that number. if you take my "guesstimate" then the cooling cost is down to 1.25 sen per month or less.
hope this helps.
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PJusa
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Jun 10 2010, 06:59 PM
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1280 - i bought two units 1 HP panasonic inverter deluxe 3 weeks ago price 1360 incl. installation. quite OK i think. installer quite OK too.. can screw panel properly into the wall with wallplugs and all and connect wires properly too (no twisted cable & stuck but the screw connectors dunno what they are called).
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PJusa
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Jun 26 2010, 10:02 AM
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mind if i ask: since the old refridgerant will be phased out - why bother with the old system? an aircon will last how long - 8 to 10 yrs so it makes sense to go for R401A systems instead of facing potentially high bills for new R22 gas right? also you save on power usage so the extra costs will be paid off by savings over time too.
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PJusa
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Aug 9 2010, 05:50 PM
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manufacturing of R22 will stop this year. as far as i know this is applicable _globally_. there will be no more _new_ R22 but the old stock will still be sold. but you should be prepared for ever rising costs of R22 since the stock will be getting more and more limited. eventually R410A should be significantly cheaper than the last remaining R22 due to market economics. and in any case an inverter aircon offers so many benefits that upgrading old models does make sense. they are cheaper under almost all conditions (not in open space AKA full load!), quiter and the parts and all are supposed to last longer.
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PJusa
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Sep 3 2010, 12:48 PM
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personally i use dry-mode with 29-28° degree and fan. if you use a ceiling fan you feel cooler than it actually is and dry air has the same effect. i find that very comfy, no need to wear warm stuff and furthermore you wont get a heat-shock when you leave the house. i can recommend that theoutdoorzone, this makes no sense. convential aircon is either off or full load. it will work until desired temp has been reached and then manage off/on by itself. so you gain nothing with your setup. if you have inverter, the inverter will work until temp has been reached at computer decided load and then manage temp. i dont see how setting temp to max and then stopping when desired temp has been reached makes a difference.
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PJusa
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Sep 5 2010, 10:01 AM
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around 200 bucks for a back-to-back installation i guess )including moving of bracket and breaking hole). last time (3 yrs ago) i moved 3 a/c from one house to another for 200 each and got a free chemical clean of those units on top.
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PJusa
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Dec 29 2010, 10:40 PM
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price difference between inverter and non-inverter is not high. power consumption is a lot less and inverter should have a higher live-span too.
so if you assume inverter costs you 300 RM extra (1200 vs. 900) but it lasts (say) 3 years longer (10 vs. 7) and uses only 50% of the power of a normal unit for same cooling then you get this:
non-inverter:
cost per year: 900/7 = 128.6
inverter:
cost per year: 1200/10 = 120
already without switching in it's cheaper or roughly the same price
if you can save 20 RM per month for using the A/C a couple of hours a day you save RM 240 a year
service once a year - might be 50 bucks more costly than standard.
240 savings - 50 extra cost = 190 savings
of course the more you use the unit, the more you save. but even with pretty minimal usage you will quickly recover costs. also you save the environment - not bad. personally i'd go for inverter (and did). further + points: they are quieter, dont need a gas refill (i do a cleaning once a year outside inside, same price as non-inverter - so no extra cost here), they are smaller too so use less space.
personal experience with first, second and third gen of panasonic inverters: all are fine, not a single issue at all. easy to clean inside unit yourself too. totally worth the money, also they reduced the a/c bill by a whopping 65% (i used seperate power meters - but our setting not normal: 24/7 28 or 29° in dry mode only, seems to be very very efficient setting for inverters).
This post has been edited by PJusa: Dec 29 2010, 10:42 PM
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PJusa
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Jan 12 2011, 08:24 PM
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i have good experience with the panasonic inverters. they run well and power consumption is minimal if you set to 28° or so
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PJusa
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Jan 13 2011, 09:49 AM
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yes great info. one question though: i read the EER is "unfair" to inverter units due to the way the testing is done (read on some aussie energy saving website from the gov i think). how to effectively compare them? from the comparison the Hitachi EER is through the roof - how is real life performance and consumption vs. the regular joe's inverter? do you have any data? that would be fantastic.
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PJusa
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Jan 23 2011, 03:15 PM
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28° is extremely comfortable. the key is dehumidification. dryer air feels much cooler. also add airflow through fans. that way you dont need to cool down much. actual temp in my house is really around 27-28° but humidity level is only 60%. it makes a huge difference.
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PJusa
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Apr 6 2011, 06:46 PM
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leongal,
if he washes is he tacking the unit down too? need someone to clean my units inside & out (no chemical).
thanks!
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PJusa
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Apr 6 2011, 07:13 PM
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well i usually pay 120 or so for my inverters to Joo Fen from Puchong. They are good, do a good job and all but they always change the gas (which seems a waste) also getting them to come to PJ is sometimes not easy. Other than that they are good. Used them for all my A/C installations for the past hmm 6 or 7 years. Just to clean the units it seems like a cheaper option would be called for though.
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PJusa
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Apr 15 2011, 10:19 AM
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yes you need different pipes if the inverter is running on R401A and not R22 (only daikin runs on the old R22 to my knowledge). if you plan for the long run, better get new piping as the old gas is beeing phased out.
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PJusa
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Apr 16 2011, 10:07 AM
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i think R401A is only used for inverter type aircons. but i never looked around for non-inverter because my place AC is always on.
but: the savings for inverter on not so cold settings is extreme. if you intend to regularly ac a room i'd go for inverter. they will last longer than normal acs as well cause there is less wear and tear so the extra you pay upfront will recoup pretty quickly even if you only on the unit for a few hours per day. assume the inverter will last you 2-3 years longer and then calculate the average cost per year. break even is nearer than you think if you consider all things. also keep in mind that electricity wont get cheaper but more expensive in the near future.
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PJusa
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Apr 16 2011, 05:12 PM
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i got the previous models from panasonics inverter range. they are pretty quiet.
btw: chemical cleaning doesnt help too much imho. just a wash and some lubricant is fine for me. if the blower is too loud why not set it to low?
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PJusa
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Jun 27 2011, 09:25 AM
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piping size differs due to higher pressure of inverter a/c if they use R401A instead of the old R44 (is the number correct?).
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PJusa
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Jun 29 2011, 09:50 AM
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JinXXX,
thanks for correcting me. been without the old type for 4 years now and couldnt remember the gas name properly.
cybermaster98,
deluxe got extra features: ionizer, mild dry cooling and this "magic eye" tech. for complete comparison panasonic website is your friend. funny enough: power consumption seems slightly higher for the basic model. wonder why...
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