i am answering to soul's question. maybe he have lot of cash and dun want bank loan?
if u hv lot of cash i think it is no wise to buy properties (for rental income) with bank loan as i mentioned. any comment from sifu?

OIC.

Pls read my previous post that I will buy agricultural land specifically rubber or oil palm.

Over the past, investor made the most fr land (development) and industrial factories, followed by commercial shoplots, however, it is too complicated for most of the forummers here, it is specifically most suitable for commodity operator to invest....

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Added on February 14, 2011, 5:16 pmWhen we say cash, there is different RM with Sing$$ and Reminbi, If all my cash are RM, I will try to convert it to real estate, no confident with the gomen

This post has been edited by UFO-ET: Feb 14 2011, 05:16 PM

He is advocating ppl who has few properties to sell off when he himself (who has a few props) going into auctions n props viewing recently....... at least Azizi is walking the talk by selling off his holdings.......

Like this punya standard oso qualify as a guru ka?

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Added on February 14, 2011, 6:01 pmThese r the NATOs.............


*NATO : No Action, Talk Only

This post has been edited by Pai: Feb 14 2011, 06:01 PM

@Pai & @Property101,

Yes. There's always an option. As mentioned, we could always swim ashore am I right? The problem is taking this type of advice, from the guys aboard the empty life boats. They do not know what the rest of us are going through.

We are not refering to the minimum wage worker, who is not willing to live in a low cost home, but an average income graduate. Meanwhile, there are plenty of vacant medium cost homes which have overgrown weeds. They are not willing to release those homes at a lower price, because they believe they are worth more in their mind.

Think again, people are not just complaining because they withheld and didn't buy 2-3 years back. Imagine if this is a fresh grad we are talking about, how do you explain this to him? "Son, you have to either work twice as hard as the rest of us, or come from a well to do family."

It's true, this is a dog eat dog world, I do not deny that, sometimes we have to suck it up and take it. But then again if everybody thought of the next person a little more. The world will be a better place.

If we were on the titanic, and the ship was sinking, Yes, the guy who was the most aggressive and pushed his way through the crowd will find a lifeboat first, and the timid one only has himself to blame. However, if we had all walked in an orderly fashion, perhaps all of us could have survived.

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Added on February 15, 2011, 1:22 amIt's one thing, if you have extra cash and you are making profit from undervalued properties. The people whom I have a bone to pick are those who buy new properties, to sell them off to genuine buyers whom were not years late, but hours and days late.

These guys do not take long to ponder on the property like people who genuinely want to own a home. They are not planning to live there anyway.

As soon as they can, they sell it back to the genuine guys, for a profit of 10K to 20K. Without needing much cash to begin with.

Basically, this is the same as, you buying some stuff from tesco... and as you are approaching the counter, another guy snatches the cart from you, pays it for you and demands you pay him a tip by %.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Feb 15 2011, 01:22 AM

I read the title "If the property going to drop?" so many times, now I got the answer - "Malaysian's dream home requirement is one of the highest in Asia"

if we dun change our requirements or like someone mentioned earlier "downgrade" our needs, we will keep suffering...and even when property is really bubble, I dun think those low and middle income group can afford to buy theirs dream home....

Until today, we Malaysian still consider an average new double storey link or Condo / service apt at least 1500sf (in average prime location) is considered an ideal "home" for a family, anything below than that spec is miserable, I just came back fr Taiwan, knowing that a very successful film star is staying in a shop apartment and most of them are like that..I make a quick survey, majority think that owning at least a 25 tsubo (890sf) size apartment is the most ideal home and considered quite successful (1 tsubo = 35.6 sq ft), middle upper class group never think or dream of owning a landed property in the Taipei City, only those multi millionaire "businessman" has the privilege to live in. 20-30 years back they are like us, complaining the landed property was too expensive.

If we can't change the world, we change ourselves
1. Lower our requirement - downgrade
2. Dun compare yr wealth (when compare, you will never satisfy)
3. Keep our family size smaller, I am ok if my 2 kids are single (Dr. M 70 mil population target is going to kill the country)
4. Be more hardworking and change our attitude
Taiwanese really good, professional and hardworking, I really feel shameful, m very very lazy, and our gomen servants sick! Taiwan has almost same population like us, their servant total of 800K, we 2.2 mil..
5. Give a chance to another group of people to manage the country, see anything better

Valid points.

Interesting you mentioned Taiwan. was not able to get the stats for the same year, but check this out:

Interesting. If we were to live in an ideal world, everyone will be happy. Unfortunately we are not robot, we dont walk in an "orderly fashion". we are human. Some of us have a big heart like yourself to care about the others while some will exploit every advantage to benefit themselves and only themselves.

In reality, the person who doesn't get a boat will either has to immediately change his mindset to be aggressive or die in the ocean. Again, unfortunately, one is very unlikely to have a change of mindset in a short period of time without any stimulant . A change of mindset will only come when they are slapped hard by the cold reality. Like Pai has mentioned, I too believe everyone who are generally successful in life usually gone through certain level of hardship. I don't believe success by chance. Even if it happens, the success will not be sustainable. How a person does anything is how a person does everything. If the person cannot manage a basic human need (accommodation), I don't reckon this person is getting too well in life in general. With this property hike, if it can wake them up from their comfort zone, increase the number of "aggressive" people in our country.....

Didn't people always say about learn from history? Well in this case, we are not learning from our history, we are learning from others' history, could be equally valuable. When you see something coming, you can either find a nice seat to watch the show or being part of the show

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Added on February 15, 2011, 9:51 amYesterday, I was talking to a colleague who owns more than 20 residential properties and number of commercial units. I guess he obviously know what he is doing. When I asked him about what he thinks about property bubble, his response was not gonna happen. When everything is increasing, why property price should drop? Of course what he said is a little over generalized, and there might be few exception, but for the majority of people who are looking at apartment / condo / studio / DLS etc are not going to be much affected.

This post has been edited by property101: Feb 15 2011, 09:51 AM

1)Will increasing young working population the answer to sustainable house price?

I realize the pool of young graduate is higher than when I was entering college and more and more young people can be seen in shopping mall on the weekend until it so pack that I rather stay at home.

During 2005 the same shopping mall is not as pack and crowded as it is now.

My theory is that although the house price have increase, but the price increase is with tandem with the demand in Malaysia economy.

2) On a macro point of view, the house price have only appreciated 3.3% around the country which is true, the house price in klang valley had shoot up like rocket, which is also true. But on the micro side, not all the house in klang valley has shoot up 30%-50% in just a year, it's is very confine and specific to hotpots such as BU areas wherest Kajang, Shah Alam has not seen much appreciation like in BU and Mutiara Area which come to my conclusion that property high price is segmented and not as wide spread as perceive, so that area like BU and Mutiara maybe have excess speculation that cause the price to increase rapidly.

3) But that also other problem, if those young graduate (Lots and Lots of them) few years down the road opt to buy a house with bank loan, the price of house is also not going to drop, because why sell lower when somebody will buy it?

House price boom is happening in Singapore as well, which explain the situation is not confine to Malaysia.

4) And there is also factor of Holding power, those people who hold number of property are cash rich uncle auntie which unlike previously 97-98 crisis they have little cash or over leverage, these people have high holding power which reduce the selling pressure on housing property, and with limited selling pressure, the downside will be limited.

Property price generally will come up and down like a cycle and the only way I can think of falling property price is in a recession and even the downside is limited to 10-30%. To seeing a property price crash of magnitude of 50% -70% is expecting a political unrest that send everyone panic to leave the country.

Property market in Malaysia is highly segmented market with high rise (super luxury, luxury, mid and low cost), Landed (terrace, Semi-D, Bungalow) and Landed can be segmentise by G&G and non G&G and the whole high rise landed can be further segmented with location and Neighborhood and area with each specifics segment experiencing it individual boom, burst cycle, varies in growth rate and price appreciation and even when in down turn, each segment will react differently.

The best example is to look at Mount Kiara high rise, it an segment on it own.

Dec 2012, the maya theory...will pull the property to zero.

my opinion only...

Sure, there can be many graduates. but if the salary of those graduates do not improve, then the price of the properties will have to drop to suit them.

IMO, Correct me if I'm wrong:

Some say, if you can't buy, then rent. The rental definately won't be more than the loan, otherwise those graduates won't face that problem to begin with. They might band together to rent a property. Resulting in several homes which were made for them, to be vacant. This will cause these landlords to lower their rent, so these graduates will start to live in them. A reduce in rental, will effect the interest of people to buy, thus the price of property will be in check.

When the price of property is high, it results in runaway development, because developers are trying to rake in as much as they can, therefore, there will not be a problem of housing shortage. The reason for the high property prices, are optimistic speculation. So, even if there is a surplus in property, the price remains high, because speculators keep their money dump in them, in the hopes of return. But when they realise that money isn't coming in from this surplus then the above will happen.

so, it's not really a matter of number of graduates. As mentioned before, if an average graduate who has been saving is not expected to be able to afford a property in future. Then how do we expect the new wave of fresh grads to afford them?

The real spoke in the wheel here is whether the current prices are caused by speculation or demand by real potential home owners? This I leave it to you guys.

This post has been edited by TheDoer: Feb 15 2011, 04:03 PM

the idea of more young grads to buy higher prices homes isn't sound. suspect majority of grads not so employable these days, coupled with few high pay jobs, only a minority will make it bigtime. a good no. of brains go overseas since there isn't much for them to hang around for.

this 3.3% is propaganda to ease the discomfort, probably true only outside kv and in rural areas. bu-mutiara is an example but there are dozens more. maybe kajang is just catching up, but you are wrong about shah alam. go check kota kemuning, jelutong, setia alam - you'll be shocked how much even 10yr old houses have gone up except the very old leasehold ones not much change. same story in many parts of puchong, kota damansara/sg buluh and along old klang road.

comparing to singapore is never useful. there are far more differences than similaritites between them.

This post has been edited by AVFAN: Feb 16 2011, 11:33 AM

To apply other countries's property investment method will lead you to hell. My friend has bought 52 units of low cost flat fr auction in the last 1 yrs (which I totally disagree), he claimed that Singapore low cost house has very good rental, RM300 rental is projected.

I am waiting what will happen to him in the next 3 yrs, I stayed in Tasik Selatan low cost flat before BLK 26, it is nightmare!! Unlike Singapore, our gomen will never take care of our living environment

IMO, in good or bad times, there will always be demand for rental of low cost flats..more so in bad times..however. having said that, managing this type of tenants is a huge challenge..and with so many units, you really need to do this full time or get someone to do it for you otherwise it will truly be a nightmare..

having bought so many, if the buyer decides one day he wants to offload, another challenge awaits him,IMO..

Is it really complicated for you?

I know of this tenant who defaulted on 2 months rent. And overnight he moved out. He left behind unpaid water and electricity bills costing hundreds.

It's a nice thought to be a landlord doing nothing but collecting money. But there are risks, and you need to really know how to manage your property well.

True. RM300 isn't easy to collect, ideally 50 units cost 2.5 mil, collect RM15K every mth sounds ok. But in reality landlord is facing different type of tenants, illegal activities, collection problems, personal safety issue (collecting cash), utility usage disputes, runaway tenants etc...

this is a special breed of people - need skills manybe similar to loansharks.

i have veen heard of foreigners owning dozens of these low cost flats, flying in/out to collect the rents every month. these skilful people know their way with local bankers, money changers, auctioneers, landoffice, contractors. an int'l career, actuali.

Apparently China is already tightening home buying policy in major city like Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen. I wonder if this restriction will hurt the China economy? Can Malaysia adopt the same move?

Beijing to limit home buying
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THE Beijing authorities are expected to announce a ban on purchases of third homes, Xinhua News Agency reported Tuesday, in line with Central Government efforts to cool the property market.

The new rule, expected to take effect late this week, would prohibit residents of Beijing who already own two or more homes from buying more, according to the report.

There is currently no limit on the number of homes Beijing residents may own.

The move comes after Shanghai and Chongqing introduced the country’s first property tax for home buyers in late January, underlining the Central Government’s determination to tame property inflation, a source of social unrest. The report said the new regulation was likely to damp demand from an estimated 800,000 families in Beijing, or 18 percent of the total in the capital at the end of 2010.

Residents who are unable to provide tax and social security certificates in Beijing would also be barred from buying more homes, according to the report.

The Central Government has launched a slew of tightening measures since 2009 in a bid to control sky-high property prices, including higher down payments, mortgage rates and home purchase limits.


http://www1.szdaily.com/content/2011-02/10...ent_5325078.htm