How's the job prospects for actuaries in Singapore? do you know if they take entry-level people? so If I take SOA exams, how many papers should I pass to be competent enough to get a job in Singapore?

Hi,

I don't know about SOA at all so I shall not speculate. Perhaps the following thread answers your question (refer to haukeat's SOA vs IOA and exam support post):
SOA vs IOA and exam support

Could anyone who are more familiar with SOA's exams clarify? What qualifies as entry level and "competent enough to get a job" in particular?

As for job prospects in Singapore, I'm ashamed to admit that I've never thought of it myself. But then again, I may take things for granted because most NTU actuarial graduates have no problem finding jobs especially if they already have all CT (IOA) exemptions in hand.

The point is, exemptions matter most when it comes to the actuarial profession, no matter SOA or IOA. The more exemptions you have, the more attractive you are to employers. In other words, "you" create your own prospects. Singapore especially, is very hungry for talent. As long as you can satisfy that hunger, they'll treat you as a king, so to speak.

Unfortunately, the reverse is very true too. If you have no talent, then you're worthless to them. <Sigh>

if about Malaysia Insurance companies, I can give advice about job prospects for actuaries.

I'm considering Malaysian Insurance companies too. so, what advise do you have?
Basically how many of US soa papers are enough for an entry-level position?

halu. yup, ipta doesn't give any exemption for the papers we pass in degree. but if we graduate with degree it also a ticket to further study in masters. bcoz it's not easy to pass the professional papers. right now it's qualified to be an actuary when have 8 professional papers. one of my friend, he succeeded 5 papers already. he wants to continue master at UK,but the university over there said his qualification is over achievement for master student.so the university offered him to do phD. huhuhh.. so.. for those who wants to take pro papers.. good luck!! hehe!

Thank you for your information. When I was in school, I've never worried so much for a job. But now graduated, start to worry to be one of the unemployed graduates.

I have some experience in SOA, so perhaps i can clarify it. basically there are 9 papers (last time 8). the 1st 5 are so-called the "preliminary" papers. Basically you won't get any exemptions for the courses you've taken in school for SOA exams except the VEE qualifications (which is not equivalent as papers, but a pre-requisite to become associate). So have to take the 1st 5 papers ourselves, then get VEE exemptions and can take some courses (they call that module), then only will get the Associate. If want to be Fellow to become a full-qualified actuary, have to take additional modules/papers.

In US, an entry-level actuary typically have 2 papers passed (the most 5), some without any paper still can secure a job but an internship before graduation is crucial for a full-time job.

Different countries have their own board to set the standard for Actuarial Science. But I assume that actuaries who from different background (SOA or ioa or etc) have the similar knowledge in actuarial science. So, for a fresh graduate in Singapore, normally how many exemptions are given? or equivalent to how many exams passed for Soa? (if can be compared such way).

Thank you for the clarification.

According to IOA, as can be found in Actuarial Society of Malaysia's site (tremendously helpful site ), there are 4 series of papers: CT, CA, ST and SA.

To summarize:
CT series consists of 8 papers
CA, 3 (one of them is subdivided into 2 though = 4 total)
ST, 2 (6 choose 2)
SA, 1 (6 choose 1)

NTU's actuarial programme, which is an undergraduate programme, offers exemptions for the CT series only. Exemptions are offered based on a candidate's performance in the respective module's final exam which means, exemptions are not guaranteed.

Therefore, a fresh actuarial graduate from Singapore (NTU) can have anywhere between 0 and 8 exemptions, depending on his/her results for each paper.

If you want to clear the remaining series (CA, ST and SA) to be a full-fledged actuary (by IOA's standards), then you must go to graduate school outside Singapore, as my senior is doing now.

From your description, I think it is reasonable to conclude that the CT Series (8 Papers) from IOA is roughly equivalent to SOA's 5 preliminary papers. And the remaining series in IOA should correspond to the remaining 4 papers from SOA.

But the above comparison is only meaningful when we are looking strictly at the level.

As for actuarial knowledge and skills, I don't know by how much IOA and SOA differ. Perhaps you can take a look at the link above and compare?

Even if the syllabus differ, does it matter? Do Malaysian and Singaporean employers prefer one to another? If not, I think we only need to worry about getting exemptions.

clngu, perhaps you could enlighten us on the actuarial scene in Malaysia?
Specifically, I'd love to learn more about:
1. The prospects
2. The more common path taken (IOA or SOA or some other institute)
3. What constitutes "competent enough to get a job" referring to exemptions in particular?
4. What should someone with all 8 CT exemptions expect if he/she decides to work in Malaysia?

Thank you very much in advance for your input. I'm sure fellow readers will benefit from your help too.

Till then, cya guys.

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Added on June 25, 2008, 7:40 amOops sorry, the link can be found here: Actuarial Society of Malaysia's Route to Become an Actuary. Have fun browsing!

This post has been edited by Tangiers: Jun 25 2008, 07:40 AM

for those decided to take this course, be prepared that your life will be filled with books and exams afterwards. In order to become a Fellow, it takes many scarification and you may not have the time to date, club, play and so on. But once you succeed, the rewards are sweet, as Malaysia is very short of qualified Fellows, a Fellow can earn at least RM20k in here, will get even more if working in oversea.

Yes, it's cheaper if you choose UTAR, but before you make your decision, please check the lecturers' qualifications. If you are brave enough, you can even ask "Why does he end up with passing merely few papers?"

It's definitely not stupid to spend RM100k of tuition fee plus living cost studying overseas. The price is expensive, but what you gain is precious.

Oh ya, someone said exemptions are important. Agree.

If you wont be facing financial constraints if you choose NTU/NUS actuarial courses, in my opinion, you should take it. SOA papers are hard, and the local lecturer is not as good as Singapore's, plus papers are not exempted, to me, I won't take such risks.

info from NTU(IoA):http://www.nbs.ntu.edu.sg/undergrad/BUS/
info from NUS(joint with ANU)(IAA):http://www.fas.nus.edu.sg/ecs/undergraduate/anu_nus.html

IoA is pretty much similar to IAA.

If you not that kind of people who always miss their home, you should see the prospects of an actuary in the world, not in Malaysia. Actuarial studies is new, in Australia, it has only 30+ years of history. Even Melbourne U(few hundred years old) started teaching actuarial just 10 years ago. We can't expect much from Malaysia's Uni.

If possible, consider Macquarie University(Aus)(oldest), LSE(UK), City(UK)(oldest) etc. (not familar with US one)

This post has been edited by shingrons: Jul 20 2008, 07:07 PM

but if u r not rich n u cant get scholarship, u wont b able 2 go 2 those universities rite?no matter how gud dey r ...haizzz
n u nid 2 hv very very gud grades 2 get into those uni as well ...

You are right.

To enter Australian U like Macquarie U, SAM is the easiest way, not that hard compared to U's in UK.

We can't get things perfect. If you want to study this subject in local, think and consider the imperfect part thoroughly.

ahh, I forget there's University of Waterloo in Canada!!!

This post has been edited by shingrons: Jul 21 2008, 12:00 AM

Hi, just stop by to ask a few questions....
I'm currently a Form 5 student.....been thinking of taking Acturial Science
I was thinking of doing Canadian Matriculation...or University Preparatory Program at Columbia International College(which take 7 month..? i was wondering how come it so short...)
Anyway would appreciate if someone would give me advises about it...(guidance)

Shingrons, you working or studying?


so do you plan to go straight canada after the preparatory program and study 4 years there?

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Added on July 24, 2008, 12:17 pmUtar i don't think so (correct me if i'm wrong). the public local U yes.

Australia and Singapore yes you have to have very good grades.

for US, no you don't have to get extremely good grades. provided you have sufficient $$$. unless you want to go to top-tier U like U Penn. Michigan is selective too. Normally ppl like to go Drake which has very good actuarial program but it doesn't really have a strict entry requirement.

This post has been edited by siaolang: Jul 24 2008, 12:17 PM

i heard Drake is really gud in actuarial program ...

studying

ah by the way, isit Uni of Waterlo. requires a very very good grade to enter? or just an A in maths or smth? someone, pls help me out.

hi, can anyone tell me what is the advantage sitting for SOA exam? why less ppl choose others like CAS?? SOA is the best ? i would like to know abt it.. thanks!

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Added on August 4, 2008, 5:04 pmcan anyone answer my question pls ? y u all prefer SOA exam but not others? i heard tat SOA exam is harder compared to others, isit true?

This post has been edited by kyoong: Aug 4 2008, 05:04 PM

uni of waterloo requires a very very very good grade to enter..
it's the top uni that offers act. sci in canada, so u can c how high the requirements can b..
and if nt mistaken, it ranks no.1 in its act. sci program..

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Added on September 6, 2008, 8:17 pmerm.. i'm nt so sure why most of the people prefer SOA exam..
but i'm currently an act. sci student and i oso prefer SAO exam more to CAS exam..
*mayb it's bcoz it's more reputable and recognizable?* i'm nt so sure of the reason though..

This post has been edited by isAb3lle: Sep 6 2008, 08:17 PM

hi guys, i just wanna add on to what Tangiers said earlier on NTU. for those who think that having to get into business in the first year b4 getting into actuarial science in the second year is of no certainty, think again. the locals there mostly went for those slightly lighter n flamboyant specializations n actuarial science in NTU is almost equally dominated by locals n malaysians. n it is not so tough to get into actuarial science in the second year as most malaysians there r superior in quantitative stuff. n if students find it hard to handle in second year, they can consult prof to change specialization n still the first year stuff r not wasted. the only setback is that it is a 3 yrs course with real actuarial stuff only gonna start in the second year n NTU can get exemption of 8 papers, the final 2 yrs is never gonna be easy.

for those considering elsewhere, may be u guys can try University of Hong Kong but it is gonna be tougher to get in n more costly than Singapore. but generally actuaries in Singapore r undervalued in terms of paid as compared to Hong Kong. correct me if i m wrong

Drake has real good Actuarial Science program and normally if u study American Degree Transfer, u can easily get scholarship from Drake. It's nt very expensive and its reputation is good. Normally students graduate from there will be secure a job as they hav internship while u r studying. =)

other good unis in US are
Uni of Michingan, Ann Arbor
Uni of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
Uni of Iowa
Uni of Wisconsin-Madison
Uni of Texas-Austin
Uni of Nebraska-Lincoln
Purdue Uni
Uni of Connecticut
.
.
.
.

As for Canada,
Uni of Waterloo
Uni of Toronto
will be quite gd

Australian National Uni also offers gd actuarial degree as well..



This post has been edited by isAb3lle: Oct 18 2008, 09:33 PM