I've read from post #397 so what about it? Then from post #402 to #408 was some minor bust up between you and jchue73, but again, nothing major as responses were still cordial. Then comes the apology in post #410 and things went smooth till post #471 where a barrage of spam post continued to post #515 (2 pages worth, 44 posts in total between 4 individuals), stopping briefly between post #516 & post #519 only to worsen again from post #523.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but in post #559, you did say the following

and in post #564

Now as much as you dislike him, both of these remarks are unwarranted and uncalled for.

To his credit, his response to you was still relatively polite (at least from my point of view) without any namecalling.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 7 2008, 07:03 AM

I have a sudden new found respect for munich after all commotion

Assuming that cars are delivered without faults to their owners, the Accord does present several advantages over the Mazda 6.

1. Class leading cabin space.
More comfort and legroom for passengers and unlike styling which will run its course, that extra space stays permanent.

2. More executive exterior design
Compared to the Mazda 6, the Accord now sports a more executive and upscale image that should appeal to business people

3. Most powerful engine in its class
Power is ample for the Accord

4. Aftermarket modification
Compared to the Mazda, aftermarket parts are more readily available to Honda for extra oomph!

5. Service network
Honda's service network spreads all over the country, getting parts and service in case of an emergency would definitely be easier

6. Better resale value
Buyers would still get a better return on investment upon selling their car. Compared to the M6, that extra savings range anything between 2 to 10k

7. Lower total cost of ownership
Parts and services would most likely be cheaper for the Honda as compared to the Mazda over the entire stretch of ownership.

There's probably some other points, but these are the major few which I can think of.

Indirectly connected to point 5. Honda parts are readily available locally and from Thailand, which are cheaper than the M6 where parts are imported from Japan. Admittingly, I do not have facts to back this point up. However, we can deduce that Honda parts which have to be replaced during servicing can usually be sourced locally or from Thailand which is cheaper as compared to Mazda where parts need to be imported in. Assuming that labor, ATF, gaskets, engine oils are similiarly priced for both marques, the price difference would probably come from items such as brake pads, air filters, spark plugs etc. In other words, the cost of the car + maintenance & resale value for a Mazda 6 will be higher as compared to the Accord.

I don't agree with this point simply because both cars should have a service booklet that at certain mileage, a particular part should be replaced regardless of whether it's longer lasting or not. For example, at 10k - you probably need to replace the spark plugs, at 20 or 30k, you must perform the mandatory air-cond service. At 40k, comes a mandatory major servicing which includes replacing your brakes etc. Even if the Mazda part is longer lasting, it's still probably by 1 service later which is about 3 months.

Again, I talk about cabin space not styling.
I always believe that styling will usually run its course after a set period of time.

Again, I reasoned based on just its output, not its performance ratio or cd. A more powerful car with ample torque and power and speed when need. Truth be told, the difference between both cars are very minor and for most buyers, I don't think they would care too much about the difference. Still, on paper the Accord churns out more power and I have no reason to doubt their data.

It is a personal opinion but a rather fair accessment. Mazda 6 is a sports sedan, the Honda on the other hand, has become more Camry in nature. They appeal to different groups of people and its likely the Accord would probably appeal more to families. Sales data would indicate the Accord having higher sales than the Mazda 6 in Malaysia. Sadly, the factors that contribute to this is likely because of its high pricing by C&C and the almost non-existent advertising for the previous gen. I do hope Bermaz will do a better job this time round as I would like to see more Mazdas on the road myself.

My reasoning is based on (which is very much face value):

a) Previous generation Mazda 6 resale value as a track record from classifieds
b) Both cars are equal with no faults

I believe if the grounds were equal (both brands have an equal brand presence and sales network), the sales of the 2.5L Mazda 6 would likely be neck to neck with the 2.4L Accord if not better.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 8 2008, 11:54 AM

I agree. But the modifications need not just be on its styling. It could be on its performance and after market parts for Honda stuff are usually easier to come by. This point is negated if the buyer doesn't care for modification.

I always see the car as a form of investment because of the convenience it provides which also lead to matters that relate to profit
I also agree with you that a savings of 10k isn't anything to shout about and my data is only based on previous record. But track record based on the previous gen Mazda 6 would indicate that this value is far greater than 10k if you factor in the original high selling price. Again, we won't know how well the new M6 will perform. A car resale value is based on its demand and supply and its too early to tell. I suspect the new Mazda 6 to perform on par with the Accord/Camry going by its spec and design and if it the new model meets or beats the sales forecast set by Bermaz this year, it would be a good start.

See previous response to jchue73.

I do agree that H&T are pretty stripped down in the Malaysian market as compared to other parts of Asia, which is a pity because elsewhere, the same cars which we are talking about now have features that stand neck to neck.

For example, the new corolla which I have lacks the following features as compared to the same full spec Thai version.

- Leather seats
- Rain sensing wipers & Auto speed adjustable wipers
- HID Xenon headlights
- Cruise Control
- Rear curtains

Now it gets even worse compared to the China version where they get the addtional new Dual VVT-i engine. At all for the price of RM79k+ Ringgit!

So Mazda is actually doing the consumers a favor by offering more value for money. This will help them push more units out and raise brand awareness which is really what Mazda desperately needs here. If Mazda starts doing well and eat into their market share, then H&T will take note and start doing the same.

The service interval for Mazda 6 posted by BooN shows no significant advantage the M6 would hold against the H&T marque. In fact, servicing for major parts are stretched over several service as compared to H&T where it is done at one major point. Suffice to say, the M6 is still more expensive overall to maintain but with an attractive selling price, I don't see it being a problem.

As I have said, this point is negated if the user doesn't care to mod. Adding exterior mods won't void your warranty though I have heard otherwise from some Honda owners. I've seen drivers mod even more expensive cars like BMW/Merc so there's always someone out there who would want to be more "unique" for the lack of a better word, to mod their rides. It's maybe perfect to you, but others might not feel the same

Different people have different opinion My personal view still stands

Good question. If the Civic, M3, Sylphy are all equipped the same then I would still choose the Corolla because I like the look of the Corolla more than the other Civic and M3 and it's more comfortable imo. The Sylphy would 1up the Corolla in comfort but its styling does not appeal to me, not even from the start so to quote what you have said:

Your above statement would apply well to my choice of the Corolla over Sylphy.

Anyways, it's too bad the new Nissan Teana isn't CKD or pushed here to replace the aging Cefiro. Of all current generation D-segment sedans, I like the new Teana best.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 9 2008, 01:47 AM

5000km intervals is if you choose to use mineral oil. The 10k intervals is if you choose to use synth oil. Citing my own experience, 1k & 5k mandatory and switch to synth oil. Then servicing at 15k, 25k, 30k just for air-cond and stretch to 40k for major parts like brake pads because the rest are only change if necessarily and in my experience, I have not had anything else that requires changing other than the brake pads. The timing belt has the same 100k change as well.

It's not about what else there is to improve, my point has always been about having the options to improve your ride if you so choose to. As far as I'm concerned, the M6 and the Accord are both fine as it is. But you can always find someone else out there, particularly true for Accord 7th gen, to change something about the car. Be it changing the rims, adding a nicer bodykit, I've also seen modifications to the cold air intake, some doing P&P etc. etc. Just flip a magazine, there are a done of aftermarket mods available for Honda like exhaust, extractors, bodykit, air filter, limited slip differential and so on and so forth, but you won't find as much "toys" available to Mazda (with the exception of the RX7&8 series). Just take a drive to Sunway and it's the same story.

Back in 2004, I did want to buy the M3 but it wasn't available in Malaysia. It's a car that's been out since 2003 overseas and even though it maybe better equipped, it's an "old" car and there are spyshots of the 2010 M3 so it would be pointless to look at a car that's a year away from retirement. The Corolla resembles the American Camry which I really like and it has hints of Lexus about it that draws me. Now for the Sylphy, something about that car doesn't quite click with me, I don't like how the car looks at certain angles and I don't like the rear which looks overly round, so pretty much end of story there.

But the Teana, the current generation Teana looks beautiful and oozes with luxury. Till this day, I find the car very attractive, but I can't say the same for the prev. gen M6 where it was really nice when it first came out but gradually lost its appeal over time. I like the new M6, I like how its styled and I hope I will still find the car appealing a few years from today. Anyway, I'm digressing and it's all beside the point so let's move on.

The Accord, M6 & Camry are similiarly priced from RM150+ ~ RM170+. Nissan's offering is the Cefiro and it has been discontinued elsewhere since 2003. Now the Nissan Teana, it's has been the sucessor for the Cefiro since 2004 and it's odd ETCM hasn't decide moving to the new flagship but instead import it in CBU for RM229,800 OTR. That's a huge price difference!

The Peugeot 407 is surprisingly able to price well below the market average but they are tied in with Naza and I'lll leave you to draw your own conclusions here. We consumers are the ones who benefit though so no complaints.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 9 2008, 10:51 AM

There's no fuss over the cost of maintainance, I'm putting up something to debate just for the sake of debating. It's actually quite hard to find the advantages the Accord against the Mazda 6. My experience is with Toyota cars, not Honda cars and from experience, my servicing usually cost about 200+ to 300+ and the expensive part isn't so much with the parts but with labor. And the truth is, the only things which I have replaced are engine oil (synth) and gasket, air-filter, brake pads and tyres. Others included wheel alignment and rotation which is quite standard. I have never used the car to the point where I had to replace the timing belt or shock absorbers.

I've replaced my brake pads during my major service even though it wasn't necessary. The things that needed to be done was the Automatic transmission fluid flushing, spark plug replacements, air filter replacements. Didn't even need to replace the batteries. As for the Accord, I really have no idea if the latest gen use a timing chain or timing belt but I suspect it would have similar service interval as that of a Mazda 6, more information would definitely be appreciated from an actual Gen 8 Accord owner.

Now you say there's nothing else to more for the new Accord or your new Mazda 6. I can tell you there is about 3 things you can do to make your ride even better than it is right now without any changes to its cosmetics or engine.

---

Added on August 9, 2008, 11:57 pmSee previous reply to iceman08

Details are scarce for the Mazda6, even from the Malaysian website ;(
On the top of my head, the features that the Accord lack compared to the Mazda 6 are:

4 airbags as compared to 6 in the Mazda 6
Rain sensing wipers
Premium audio compared to BOSE sound system
Sunroof
Push/Start Engine & Keyless entry
Electric power steering as compared to Hydraulics

More info on the actual specs of the M6 would be great for a breakdown and comparision

Not much you can do about the airbags, steering, push/start engine or the wipers but you can improve the audio and add in remote keyless entry for the Accord. Sunroof is nice but I'm sure it's not something the people will miss greatly.

The point for me is it's been out for awhile now so it's considered "old". The 2010 model usually means it's due out next year but you're right, it will probably be out by 2012 in Malaysia if we're lucky but I cannot stand the idea of driving something that's old when a newer model is out and its not available for sale!

I don't think the Sylphy looks in anyway like the Teana except for some slight similiarity in the headlight design and the side profile. The Teana does not look uncle! It looks very classy But one man's meat is another man's poison

I've actually looked at the Peugeot 407 at 1U shopping center today. A few notes:

- The interior and dials are quite simple and spartan.
- The cabin space isn't very large, particularly with the rear seats. Feels a little cramped sitting in the back seat.
- The cockpit is very wide, gives good panoramic view of the surroundings
- It would appear there's no 60:40 split fold rear seats
- The utility console in the center is very small and don't appear to be able to hold much. But it lifts up a little which is a nice little feature as an armrest.
- The lack of storage space and cup holders are quite glaring
- The seats are very comfortable and the doors close with a satisfying thud.

For the price, it would seem like a bargain, but I still have my reservations.

In regards to modification, there are 3 things that you can do to improve the Mazda 6 (or whatever car).

1. Adding a voltage stabilizer + grounding kit
Doing this will improve your battery life and improve your audio and electronics. My battery lasted 2 years which was well past its 1 year replacement date! I can tell you you will notice an improvement in the clarity of your audio and slight improvement to the interior illumination (brightness). Either go with the Pivot brand or if you are willing to spend the premium - go for the Hot Inazama Hyper ground kit, it will improve your engine power by 2 to 3 hp. Won't void your warranty as it's an add-in item that does no modification at all to the engine. I personally used the pivot stuff so I can say it's a good product. It's also supposed to save fuel but I don't really see much difference.

2. Adding a tower brace bar (if its not available)
The car have better cornering characteristics, you feel less body roll (like you're flying to one side when cornering)

3. Foaming and soundproofing
I've done this to my car and my brothers Camry. Do a search on autoworld forums on autofoam. Trust me, if you think the Mazda 6 NVH and quietness is good, think again. This is the ultimate upgrade to really firm up your ride and reduce NVH. Not only will it stiffen your ride, it also reduces body roll, very obvious when you corner. As for the wind sound that comes from the window? Forget about hearing it again, it's will be gone or at the very least, become very much less obvious. The car roof won't sound like some zinc roof and your doors will have that satisfying thud closing sound just like a continental car. The exhaust and engine sound will also reduce and the undercarriage will feel more solid. It's hard to write it out in words, it's something that you have to do to believe.

These are 3 subtle mods that you can do to improve your ride without feeling benglish and the best part, they do bring out real improvements.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 10 2008, 02:32 AM

A continental car like BMW/Mercedes also have obvious improvements after using autofoam. For a car like Mazda 6? No doubt the improvements will be significant. Even for the latest generation camry which is considered very quiet and comfortable, the difference after autofoam is phenonmenal. The stiffened chassis reduces noise from the engine and exhaust quite a bit. Handling and cornering feels tighter and there's less body roll. Using in conjunction with a tower will bring the best benefits. If there were any vibrations, I'm very sure you won't feel them after the foaming and your idling is better - feels as if the engine is off. On the highway, the car feels more stable and there is an obvious reduction in wind noise.

I've seen them open up the car panels to fill the B pillars with foam, very disappointingly, the chassis is quite hollow and the stuff they use to insulate noise is just a lousy piece of sponge and some thin padding. The door panels are hollow with some thin insulation pads (oher cars, it's just empty)l, so adding sound damping mats will definitely improve interior cabin quietness.

I suggest you drive your car for 3 months without the radio on, then bite the bullet and do the foaming and then drive your car again, the difference wil be very obvious. I have never looked back ever since after foaming, the feeling is just too god.

Add: One rather cheap mod you can do is fill your car with nitrogen gas. The car will feel a lot lighter once you do that and there will be a slight reduction of road noise from tires (1dBA difference).

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 10 2008, 11:55 PM

It depends on the package you choose.
The cheapest treatment is the seat rail treatment which is about 400+
The next step up is the is just the side sills which is about 700+
Or if you fancy more comfort then do the undercarriage for 900+
There are other packages in between but I don't remember them since I went all out with the one below:

Foaming my car's A, B, C pillars, side sills, undercarriage, the seat rails, roof panels and sound proof mats for the 4 doors, engine firewalling - no less than 3.5k. Results are nothing short of satisfying.

M = 2nd Gen. Mazda 6, A = 8th generation Accord

M: Bose 7 Speaker System with 1 Bose Subwoofer
A: Standard 160W 6 speakers system with subwoofer

M: N/A
A: Tower Bar & Hood Damper

M: N/A
A: Rear Curtain

M: 6-CD In-Dash Changer with MP3 Support and Ipod Support
A: 6-CD In-Dash Changer with MP3/WMA Support and USB Support

M: Leather Seats
A: Leather Seats + Interior

M: 8-way Driver and Front Passenger Electronic Adjustable Seats (Driver with 3 Memory Settings)
A: 8-way driver, 4 way passenger and power lumbar support.

M: 60/40 fold down rear seats
A: Rear foldable seats (probably 60:40 as well) with truck through hole

M: Fully Automatic Sunroof
A: N/A

M: 6 AirBags (Front, Side and Centre Pillar), Active Headrests and Crushable Brake and Clutch Pedals
A: 4 AirBags (Front, Side), Active Headrest & G-CON

M: Auto Headlights Lamp (Ambient light sensor) and Auto Wipers (Rain sensor)
A: Auto Headlights Lamp and variable and intermittent wipers, water dispersing glass (side + rear) and hydrophillic door mirrors

M: HID Bi-Xenon Headlight (High and Low Beam) - Auto Leveling
A: HID Bi-Xenon Headlights with Auto Levelling

M: Adaptive Front Lighting System (AFS)
A: No Data

M: Auto Dimming Button for Rear View Mirror
A: N/A

M: Push Start / Stop Ignition System
A: N/A

M: Advanced Keyless Entry with illuminated welcome mode upon entry
A: Standard keyless entry (?)

M: Antilock Brake System (ABS), Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD) and Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) with Traction Control System (TCS)
A; ABS, EBD, BA, Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA)

M: Front (299mm) ventilated disc brakes / Rear (280mm) disc brakes
A: Ventilated & solid disc brakes

M: Separate Climatic System (Dual) Air Conditioning
A: Dual Zone Climate Control Air-Conditioning

M: Rear Boot - Button Operated from rear bonnet
A: Unknown

M: Built-in Antenna (rear screen)
A: Glass Printed Antenna

M: Paddle Shift System with 5 Speed Automatic Transmission
A: Paddle Shift System with 5 Speed Automatic Transmission + shift hold control

M: Dual Exhaust System (though not true dual exhaust)
A: Single with muffler cutter

M: Multifuction Control Setting on Steering
- Consisting of Cross Functional-Network (CF-Net System) to control Air Conditioner, Volume, Trip Counter/Info on centre console panel display and
A: Multifunction Control Settings on Steering, unknown if it controls air conditioning or other functions

M: Auto Cruise System
A: Cruise Control System

M: 18" tyres (225/45) with Alloy Sports Rims (including full spare wheel, not the slim temporary ones)
A: 17" Tyres with alloy rims

M: Body-Color / Sport Type Front Grill
A: Body-Color, chrome door handles / Chrome Grill

M: Blackout Effect Speedometer
A: Unknown

M: Immobilizer
A: Immobilizer

M: Front Fog Lamps
A: Front Fog Lamps

M: ISOFix child seat anchorage
A: ISOFix child seat anchorage

M: Front and rear parking sensors
A: rear parking sensors only

M: Alloy foot padels
A: Unknown

M:Electronic Power Assist steering
A: Hydraulic Power Assist steering with variable gear ration system

Voltage Stabilizer will benefit any car. Not so sure about the ground kit but it's not expensive and better to have than not.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 11 2008, 01:16 AM

Yeah, it doesn't matter what car. The car by default is rather hollow with patches of insulation plattered all over the car. The foaming fills and stiffens any gaps in the hollow chassis thereby reducing noise, vibration and harshness. The sound insulation mats further isolate exterior noise.

Like I said, its expensive but the end result is nothing short of satisfactory. I'm sure you Mazda owners will feel the same way after foaming and insulating your car.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 11 2008, 01:07 AM

It's very light and its waterproof. I'm not even sure if it will hit 5Kg despite sealing up my car cavity.
I see many Civic and Lancer owners go for the same treatment.

It doesn't look impressive, but once you've tried it, there will be no turning back.

By standard keyless entry, I mean your normal alarm and door unlock system. Still by definition considered keyless if you search around the web

The advanced type are actually similar to the one in Mazda 6 or better. You only need the key in your pocket and as you approach the car, it will unlock and the engine will start on its own.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 11 2008, 08:00 AM

It's a figure of speech
e.g. On paper, it doesn't look impressive.

It's a foam that is inserted into the chassis and will harden filling up all the cavities. You won't see it, but you will feel it.

Just for the record, I'm not affliated nor do I work for them. It's a good product that I thought everyone should know

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 11 2008, 11:55 AM

You have to talk to Desmond directly on what should be done. I'm not an expert, but here's my advise - if you do send it in for autofoam, make sure you leave once you've decided on a package. Otherwise, you will end up being "poisoned" and end up doing more and more things to your car. Haha.

Nitrogen gas improvements are small, the most obvious effect you will feel is the lightness of it. It's a 170k+ car you just bought, what's another RM20 bucks?

Yes I know. It's a nice feature to have. Those Thai Corollas actually the wireless entry system as I have described, I think Malaysians always get the most stripped down cars throughout the region ;(

They dismantle the rear seats and fill the chassis with foam and then put sound absorbing mats under the seat and boot area - the quality of workmanship is very good. You don't need to worry. If you're faint hearted, I don't suggest you stay to look

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 11 2008, 11:46 AM

Nothing, it can't be seen - as bOOn has said. All they do is strip off the weatherstrips and inject the foam into the chassis cavities. The undercarriage would need to have the rear seats removed to access the hollow ports in the undercarriage, no drilling needed. Some of the stuff will flow out from the the cavities and dry up - you also need to bring your car back to them after a week but all they do is cut off the exposed foam and add additional foam to fill up whatever parts that is not filled up. The process of doing this requires about 3 to 5 hours and another 2 hours or so when you bring your car back to them.

I traded in my Vios to Toyota Topmark for the new Altis and that car has been foamed thoroughly, even with their thorough check - there was no comment at all. Throughout all the years that I sent my car for servicing, not once was there any problem. Even with my first 1k service in my new car, no problems at all.

I should state for the record that I have a VS + ground kit and stabilizer bar installed as well for the Vios and there was no problems. Even with the new Altis, they didn't say anything about the Pivot Mega Raizin voltage stabilizer that was installed.

This post has been edited by zweimmk: Aug 11 2008, 01:07 PM

I have to say, there is one color which the Mazda 6 really looks terrible in.

It's dark blue / purplish color. I'm sorry to say this, but that color is totally wrong for the M6. Not only does it make the lights look odd, it makes the car looks benglish. Stick to the white or black if you buy M6 guys, coz the blue/dark purple scheme is just wrong.