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Renovations 3-phase wiring

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SUSsupersound
post May 5 2014, 11:56 PM

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QUOTE(Lerner @ May 5 2014, 04:04 PM)
Upgraded, it just a simple process as drop by kedai TnB to obtain the list of contractor, then pay the services, then come and install the new meter in 2 weeks.

as residential, Imbalance Power Factor Ratio is no applicable to Residential Account Right?
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Nope, it does not.
3 phase the only advantage is you can run the whole house with air conds. Single phase are limited to 2-3 max.
Also for load balancing, make sure the wiring work done properly, else if still 1 phase only working, it defeat your goal.
SUSsupersound
post May 6 2014, 05:33 PM

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QUOTE(the s.crib @ May 6 2014, 04:58 PM)
Hi hi,

Just a question on 3 phase. Can a house have 2 3 phase meter? I have an issue with load due to the high electrical usage and was told that 1 3 phase meter is not enough. Just wondering what can I do about it? Adding more DB boxes as opposed to having 2 3 phase meters?

Thanks
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Nope, if the 3 phase wiring are done properly, you should not have much problem with it.
Only you have to worry if there's only 1 single phase run all the air conds, sure it will be high load on that particular phase doh.gif
Usually you will have such problem when the wireman wants to make fast money whistling.gif
SUSsupersound
post Aug 12 2014, 09:27 PM

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QUOTE(S'aimer @ Aug 12 2014, 09:19 PM)
Hm let's say.

If I plan to install another 2 aircons in the house at a later time which will make it a total of 3 in the house. I would have to change to 3 phase?

But as far as I can see, a single bungalow has no problem running all 3 aircons on a single phase.
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If the main fuse are 60A or higher rating, for sure single phase also enough.
But once your house caught fire, insurance won't pay you.
SUSsupersound
post Aug 12 2014, 09:45 PM

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QUOTE(S'aimer @ Aug 12 2014, 09:34 PM)
Hmm how to tell if my main fuse is of higher rating?

Because the electrician change the old single row DB to a three row DB?

Do I need to take picture of it?
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The fuse does have a rating, just have a check on it.
Even if the main fuse is rated high, does not means the wire rated to it. So you still need to lay new wire and their own 13A fuse for air conds.
SUSsupersound
post Aug 12 2014, 09:58 PM

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QUOTE(S'aimer @ Aug 12 2014, 09:56 PM)
Problem is. The electrical work has been done already

Saw a new thick bunch of wires dangling at the storeroom side where the Main DB is before the electrical works were completed.

Comes in red, yellow, black and green? The aircon switches are all 15A and the electrician added 3 new aircon points too
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Then should be good already.
SUSsupersound
post Aug 13 2014, 01:43 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Aug 12 2014, 10:19 PM)
I don't see any reason why insurance won't pay if it run within the limit, and with proper wiring. Unless House owner using wrong wire sizing maybe.  A single phase max fuse is 63amps with the correct wire sizing.  If you have come across such information from Insurance do share with us.
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Is on the TNB application form on the requirement.
And insurance company will use this form and fire department's report to decide pay or not pay in case of fire.
Also, I do know that with single phase I can run 5-6 air conds without problem but when something happens I don't want insurance company have an excuse to deny a claim.

This post has been edited by supersound: Aug 13 2014, 02:27 AM
SUSsupersound
post Aug 13 2014, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(weikee @ Aug 13 2014, 08:27 AM)
Please tell me which line state not support of 3rd ac?

http://www.tnb.com.my/application/uploads/...cation_Form.pdf
I have also consult General insurance agent, nothing to do with AC quantity installed.
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http://www.tnb.com.my/residential/manage-y...upply-type.html
You can always ignore this and your agent never tells you the truth.
Again nothing happens everybody happy, something happens you enjoy it.
SUSsupersound
post Aug 13 2014, 11:43 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 13 2014, 09:57 AM)
1HP = 0.75KW

750/240 = 3~4A, 

Safety margin let say 25%, make it 5A per air cond

5 x 6 = 30A.

Still within the capability of a single phase that is 50A.

You cannot overload the single phase, but there is no rule said single phase house being equiped with 6 air-cond then may void the fire insurance coverage.
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You are right, but again TNB already stated the guideline we "should" upgrade to 3 phase once we exceeding 3 air conds.
Your calculation are assuming that it is good quality of copper wire being used. It not even taking in to account of the qaulity, length and efficiency of the wire. Where's the heat generated calculation?
In some sense indeed we can't overload a single phase, but we can overload the wire which later overload the main fuse.
For sure insurance company never stated the rule on this as they release the claim's payment based on official report by government. Have you ever claim insurance before? The company need 1 single word only to deny a claim.
SUSsupersound
post Aug 13 2014, 11:50 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Aug 13 2014, 11:47 AM)
I would like to see the guidelines/rules state in this.  smile.gif
Ty.
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I forgot where I posted that guideline, maybe a find using the search function will help you to get the answer fast. I just posted it recently.
SUSsupersound
post Aug 18 2014, 07:50 AM

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QUOTE(S'aimer @ Aug 18 2014, 12:43 AM)
Sorry bros, I'm a little lost here.

Simply put, what should I do to set my ELCB to 63A from 40A if necessary and should I just keep or change the 63A double pole switch?

The heater points and air con points are 15A sockets with 20A gang switches.
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ELCB no need to do anything, keep that 40A, lower will be always better.
Did it simply trip every now and then without lightning strike? If not that's mean you are not pulling true >40A yet.
SUSsupersound
post Aug 18 2014, 08:58 PM

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QUOTE(S'aimer @ Aug 18 2014, 12:43 AM)
Sorry bros, I'm a little lost here.

Simply put, what should I do to set my ELCB to 63A from 40A if necessary and should I just keep or change the 63A double pole switch?

The heater points and air con points are 15A sockets with 20A gang switches.
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If you are going to use single phase without upgrading, then just use the 40A ELCB.
No doubt the main cable from TNB can go upto 100-200A, but then for single phase to pull full 40A all the time are quite challenging part. If you can pull that, your bill will hit rm800-900 monthly.
SUSsupersound
post Aug 18 2014, 09:35 PM

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QUOTE(jimmylim85 @ Aug 18 2014, 09:20 PM)
It can be seen the moment you remove the cover of your Main Distribution Board aka your fuse box internal.
That's the benefit of having 3 Phase electrical. 3 phase reduce the burden load of a single phase electrical. There is chances the electrical bill won't be expensive than relying on single phase meter. But don't be surprised when 3 phase electrical having one or two phase malfunction due to TNB electrical fault. You'll notice when one of your room has no electrical supplies
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Yup, 3 phase wiring done nothing good except you have load balancing(if the wireman do the job rightly), claiming insurance incase fire easier(as everything follow the rules)
But will using 3 phase makes our bill cheaper? I doubt so, since the meter are digital and no other independent party can verify that.
But used my company's FLIR camera to check, my incoming cable from TNB meter are "colder" compare to my neighbor(we have similar air cond setup, upstairs Panasonic and living hall 2HP air cond). I asked him to run on both the air cond at 8-9pm.
SUSsupersound
post Aug 18 2014, 09:50 PM

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QUOTE(S'aimer @ Aug 18 2014, 09:31 PM)
Er bro, did I read that right? If I pull full 40A, the monthly bill will be RM800-900?

But I don't quite get the logic actually? I've seen my parents's electrical bill and it's less than that, probably around RM300-400monthly for single phase. This is with 4 air cons and 1 water heater.
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That's why you must know what does typical current draw means.
Under normal condition, all appliance won't pull max current all the time unless shorted.

QUOTE(S'aimer @ Aug 18 2014, 09:36 PM)
However, I see in here that 3 phase wiring should be considered if going to have more than 3 air cons.

And I was thinking whether I need to upgrade to 3 phase or not when I only have 1 water heater and 1 air con although the possibility of installing another water heater for shared bathroom and air cons for the other 2 common rooms will be high in future.
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Using water heater 24/7? No right? Then no need. You only need to consider 3 phase if you are using 3 air conds all the time.
But 3 phase wiring are quite expensive to do. The good thing is, your wire can last longer since they are not stressed.
SUSsupersound
post Aug 29 2014, 07:51 AM

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QUOTE(enriquelee @ Aug 29 2014, 12:47 AM)
Even using 3 aircond all the time also not necessary to get 3 Phase.
Unless you on them at the same time and all of the aircond is non converter type.
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Yup, that's right.
Only some mad people will on every thing at the same time.

Anyway, every January I'm getting some refund, as far as I heard, it is the deposit I put in last time(rm800).
SUSsupersound
post Aug 29 2014, 08:05 PM

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QUOTE(enriquelee @ Aug 29 2014, 05:22 PM)
Ow? Got refund this kind of thing in TNB bill? 1st time hear ler
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Yup, it is stated as "pelbagai" thumbup.gif
If charge extra, I make noise, if get back money, keep quiet.
SUSsupersound
post Aug 29 2014, 10:04 PM

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QUOTE(enriquelee @ Aug 29 2014, 10:01 PM)
Haha, every one will do the same la.
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Let's wait for another 4 months and see.
But you need to fullfill certain condition to get this, if not mistaken it will be prompt payment(now in order to get rm50 CB, every month will pay extra), use above certain limit(so in some sense you need to waste)
SUSsupersound
post Aug 29 2014, 10:31 PM

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QUOTE(enriquelee @ Aug 29 2014, 10:18 PM)
I don't get what you mean.  tongue.gif
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Sure or not? Which part?
SUSsupersound
post Sep 7 2014, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(S'aimer @ Aug 30 2014, 04:19 PM)
If I understand right what bro supersound is saying,

Need to wait 4 months later, that is until january 2015 to see if you will get back some rebate or not.

But to be able to get back some rebate, you must fulfill the basic condition, same like with credit cards payment..

It must be prompt and full payment every month and in his case, he pre-pays a little bit more on top of his bill payment.

Is that right bro supersound?
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Yup, that's right. Need to optimize my cash back and to have some online purchase, so need to prepaid most of the time.
SUSsupersound
post Sep 7 2014, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(S'aimer @ Sep 7 2014, 02:07 AM)
Glad I got it right! Today called my electrician about the 40A rating and the concealed pvc pipe for internet connection. The uncle say 40A is enough. Somehow I feel a little skeptical but will see the utility bill when it comes.
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40A@240V can fry the whole house already sweat.gif
So is nothing wrong to use 40A, in fact it is safer also. As for an appliance to pull 40A, only under shorted condition will do like this.
SUSsupersound
post Sep 7 2014, 02:19 PM

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QUOTE(S'aimer @ Sep 7 2014, 01:11 PM)
Bro, I'm confused about 40A@240V frying part and why is it safer?
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Our house power supply is 240V.
Most of the appliances in our house only pulling 0.2-1A, while water heater, washing machine, air cond will be more, maybe 2-5A during normal run.
So, 40A direct pull is like you simply pull a wire and put it to another(life to neutral direct). The heat generation will be very high and melt the wire.
I've seen this in my work place. The copper also melted.

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