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Renovations 3-phase wiring

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wdarke
post Jan 24 2011, 10:59 PM

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QUOTE(b00n @ Jan 24 2011, 10:43 PM)
Thanks for the explanation. Much more clearer now.
So can we conclude that it doesn't save as far as the myth of 3-phase wiring is concerned i.e. only reaches the DB box.
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Yes. Changing TNB's single phase to 3-phase would not help you save electricity. If your house electricity supply has only a single phase, you should only consider going to 3-phase if the total electricity consumption of all your appliances(if everything is turned on at once) exceeds what single phase can safely supply you, which is about 60A I think.
cherroy
post Jan 25 2011, 12:47 AM

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QUOTE(yi_min82 @ Jan 24 2011, 05:01 PM)
sorry about my language.
wat i mean 3phase in our resident house is not actually with 3phase wiring,it only reach until the Db box. actual 3p wiring for appliances had to have at lease 4 wire (r,s,t,ground),sometime it add 1 more (r,s,t,n,ground),not like 3wire(L,g,n).
eg.acson or york cassette type 4hp.
eg.ceiling type or concealed type
mostly they install at living room.

3phase 4hp, n 1phase 4hp, witch one current using more ?1phase right? so the current flow more n generate heat or lost energy because of resistance. btw,yup, its not primary,but second smile.gif. so conclosion, 3phase save more with 3phase appliances.
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Most people residental house do not need a 4HP air-cond.
&
That's why you rarely see 1~2HP air-cond using 3 phase one.

3 phase use less current, but x3 in power calculation. tongue.gif

Yes, 3phase will be more efficient, but 3phase doesn't mean your electricity become 1/3.
Power = amp x voltage, and each phase count.

3p wiring will cause you a bom first, instead of saving. tongue.gif

3p primary is all about high power consumption needed.
yi_min82
post Jan 26 2011, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(wdarke @ Jan 24 2011, 10:06 PM)
He's talking about electrical appliances that use 3 phase. Usually, industrial / commercial appliances that needs higher voltages/current. The plug looks different from your typical 3 prong plug. It has 4 to 5 prongs. 3 prongs is for each of the 3 phases.

TNB's 3 phase cable reaches your DB box only, from there onwards, electrical appliances inside your house runs only on a single phase.

About the energy loss via resistance, I am not too sure about that. However, I know 3 phase motors uses less energy than comparable single phase ones.
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"About the energy loss via resistance, I am not too sure about that."
resistance in the wire. most contractor cone ppl with the low quality n small diameter wire, it increase the resistance. cause it generate heat, waste the energy n make the wire life shorter. Or , the user didnt mention to the contractor, after that they use it with high current appliances like water boiler, high power entertainment set, laser printer, hair dryer and etc. P.S. notebook consume very low power only.

This post has been edited by yi_min82: Jan 26 2011, 09:50 AM
xngjn
post Jan 26 2011, 11:50 AM

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correct me if I'm wrong. electric bill above 300 should change to 3 phase. if less than 300 then is a waste to use 3 phase.
Drian
post Jan 26 2011, 03:01 PM

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Wrong.. it's the total peak load that you plan to use.

cherroy
post Jan 26 2011, 11:35 PM

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QUOTE(yi_min82 @ Jan 26 2011, 09:49 AM)
"About the energy loss via resistance, I am not too sure about that."
resistance in the wire. most contractor cone ppl with the low quality n small diameter wire, it increase the resistance. cause it generate heat, waste the energy n make the wire life shorter. Or , the user didnt mention to the contractor, after that they use it with high current appliances like water boiler, high power entertainment set, laser printer, hair dryer and etc. P.S. notebook consume very low power only.
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It is unrelated to 3 phase discussion already.

If a contract want to con ppl with low quality, smaller diameter wire in single phase, the contract also can con people with even smaller dimater in 3 Phase installation as well.

Nothing to do with whether a residential house need 3P or not, or 3P motor is more efficiency or not.
TheUrbNorm
post Feb 7 2011, 04:36 PM

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Sifu,

Can I know if my house is 1 phase or 3 phase based on the meter box above if you all can tell???


This post has been edited by TheUrbNorm: Feb 9 2011, 12:09 PM
jpaul
post Feb 9 2011, 12:04 PM

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QUOTE(TheUrbNorm @ Feb 7 2011, 04:36 PM)
Sifu,

Can I know if my house is 1 phase or 3 phase based on the meter box above if you all can tell???
user posted image
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yi_min82
post Feb 9 2011, 12:58 PM

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jojozep
post Feb 24 2011, 03:53 PM

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I have a quote - it is really expensive to convert from 1 phase to 3 phase

especially if one hardly exceed the load factor.


Please give you comments..

1) To supply & install 25mm armoured cable from meter board to TNB pole..hacking and premix back.. rm5500
2) To supply & install 16mm armoured cable from TNB meter to DB box - rm2500
3) Supply and install 3 phase DB box with 60 amp ELCB,60amp main fuse and 32 MCB - rm1500
4)TNB meter submission form - rm1200

I know that item 4 , I can already do myself.

also item 1, looks damn expensive..I already hacked my front yard already--where got hacking charges?
hoilok
post Feb 24 2011, 03:59 PM

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Have my contractor to lay the armoured cable from the access door to guard house area around 10m, there charge abour RM 800 only. Not sure why ur vendor so high cost maybe is very long and done by some local fellow not by major company

QUOTE(jojozep @ Feb 24 2011, 03:53 PM)
I have a quote - it is really expensive to convert from 1 phase to 3 phase

especially if one hardly exceed the load factor.
Please give you comments..

1) To supply & install 25mm armoured cable from meter board to TNB pole..hacking and premix back.. rm5500
2) To supply & install 16mm armoured cable from TNB meter to DB box - rm2500
3) Supply and install 3 phase DB box with 60 amp ELCB,60amp main fuse and 32 MCB - rm1500
4)TNB meter submission form - rm1200

I know that item 4 , I can already do myself.

also item 1, looks damn expensive..I already hacked my front yard already--where got hacking charges?
*
numbertwo
post Feb 24 2011, 04:13 PM

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Item one is very much depending on how close is your meter board to the nearest TNB Pole.. but 5.5K is a lot! My previous quote came to about 8K inclusive everything but we decide not to proceed as there is really no need for that...
jojozep
post Feb 24 2011, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(hoilok @ Feb 24 2011, 03:59 PM)
Have my contractor to lay the armoured cable from the access door to guard house area around 10m, there charge abour RM 800 only. Not sure why ur vendor so high cost maybe is very long and done by some local fellow not by major company
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he say 25 mm armoured wire very expensive..

access door - you mean the autogate pillar? because that is where most people relocate their tnb meter...

I thought that major company more expensive than local fellow? He trying his luck with me...?
hoilok
post Feb 24 2011, 04:17 PM

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local fellow is those freelancer type biggrin.gif, for company there charge me about 4.6k as well .
numbertwo
post Feb 24 2011, 04:36 PM

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...i also know that some fellas do it on their own, meaning to register/apply with TNB and get TNB to recommend licensed co. to do the work instead of letting the contractor sucking a bit here n there..within 5K in my area.
jojozep
post Feb 24 2011, 04:51 PM

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I think the 3 phase thingy is a only 'fear factor' and will not burn the house down..
True or not? if overload..it will trip...just an inconvenience.
BUT the chance of tripping is slim...unless you are running a hotel in the house.

also preventive measures of tripping like

buy aircond invertor type- less current needed
buy AAA type appliances
switch on air-con not all at once and not all at 16 degree..

correct or not..?
numbertwo
post Feb 24 2011, 05:01 PM

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for a small family (i' mean 2 kids and your the other half) it really serves no purpose..except for one advantage whereby when your area is trip , houses with 3-phase wiring may still draw current from other source and light up your house! how cool eh? So is a 'cool factor too!
cherroy
post Feb 24 2011, 11:39 PM

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QUOTE(numbertwo @ Feb 24 2011, 05:01 PM)
for a small family (i' mean 2 kids and your the other half) it really serves no purpose..except for one advantage whereby when your area is trip , houses with 3-phase wiring may still draw current from other source and light up your house! how cool eh? So is a 'cool factor too!
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When blackout, the likelyhood is always all 3 phase blackout. tongue.gif

Generally, wireman only tap one of the 3 phase for your lighting only.

Like upstair use blue, downstair use yellow.


Added on February 24, 2011, 11:42 pm
QUOTE(jojozep @ Feb 24 2011, 04:51 PM)
I think the 3 phase thingy is a only 'fear factor' and will not burn the house down..
True or not? if overload..it will trip...just an inconvenience.
BUT the chance of tripping is slim...unless you are running a hotel in the house.

also preventive measures of tripping like

buy aircond invertor type- less current needed
buy AAA type appliances
switch on air-con not all at once and not all at 16 degree..

correct or not..?
*
Tripping or not, you can count the workload of device.
It is not about chance or prevent tripping.

Once your total load over the single phase can delivery, a 3 phase is needed, as simply as that.

It is not reducing chance of tripping or not.
Once overload, tripped.

Your MCB got max load factor, aka the max amp you can use, more than that, it tripped.

This post has been edited by cherroy: Feb 24 2011, 11:42 PM
skng03
post Feb 25 2011, 02:37 AM

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QUOTE(cherroy @ Feb 24 2011, 11:39 PM)
When blackout, the likelyhood is always all 3 phase blackout.  tongue.gif

Generally, wireman only tap one of the 3 phase for your lighting only. 

Like upstair use blue, downstair use yellow.


Added on February 24, 2011, 11:42 pm

*
some time only one phase blackout. happened quite frequent in small villages, those who have three phase supply will have the advantage tongue.gif
numbertwo
post Feb 25 2011, 11:40 AM

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true enuf..i envy my neighbours who has lights on during the black-out... but hey..i realise that the current stability of the elect supply is much better than say 5 yrs back(...errr..touchwood) ...so this 3 phase thingy is no longer a need now.

This post has been edited by numbertwo: Feb 25 2011, 11:42 AM

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