I'm starting this thread to ask about the legitimacy of this course.

http://wealth-mentors.com/

The ads usually appear in the newspapers.

Basically it's around RM 18,000+ to take the full course. Is this course worth the money?

Are there any students here who have managed to use the system successfully?

This post has been edited by Polaris: Apr 8 2008, 03:33 AM

just google up, but don't go to her own site, go to 3rd party sites instead like a forum and read reviews about her. but I can't even find her wiki page....so much for an investor who charge so expensive for a course.

singaporeans seema to pay SD15k for the whole course

but again...not every investment style works for every investor.

Agreed with Ah Suknat. Not every investment style works for every one.

I know people who have attended her course. Based on the normal curve, out of 1000 students, maybe around 5 will be able to make it to the top over the long term.

This would applicable for other courses organized by other gurus.

Good luck.

Now adays there r lots of so call investment gurus. Saw in The Star today and the preview is only less than RM100 but when I went to the webbie to chk it out, the whole course actually cost US$2,988 .

If you are serious about trading, you need to attend some course that you can afford. Otherwise you may pay your tuition to the market anyway. For those cheap courses, you can get the info free anyway....

Trading is a journey. You cannot stop learning. The day you think you know everything is the day the market slaps you.

Happy exploring...

wow RM18k...is even more expensive than freely

So basically, b4 we make $$ the mentor ody make tons of $$ from his talk ody.

Yes, you are right. That's why you need to sniff out mentors/gurus that are genuinely interested to make you a success and those who are not.

But also bear in mind that a lot of success depends on the individual trader as the key to become a successful trader is to understand your own emotion/psychology as well as market psychology. Whatever trading strategies you learned only form a portion of your success.

Good luck.

Could the stuff being taught in this course be obtained by reading books on options trading?

I'm one of Mirriam Macwilliams students. I attended in Oct 08 and there were more than 100 students in my batch. I would say that not everyone will succeed after a seminar, a lot depends on the determination of the individual. You need to keep practicing to polish up your skills; be it options trading or anything else.

What I like most about Mirriam is that she makes everything so easy to understand. I could get her concepts eventhough i've not bought a single stock in my life, be it US or local stocks/options. It was definitely helpful for a beginner like me. Wealth Mentors is a huge community, with many graduates coming back to share their experiences with newbies.

They do have weekly coaching support and monthly newsletter & meetings open to all graduates. I find it helpful as Mirriam will share her outlook of the current market with all her students. It is at the weekly coaching sessions that I was able to get hold of the strategies taught during the seminar. Not every graduate can attend the after-seminar coaching sessions due to work or family matters, that is why everyone progress at different levels.

If you are someone keen on mastering options trading, it's advisable to learn from a reputable guru. It does save you from losing money to the market.

Interested to know more, do drop me an email sh3rli@hotmail.com. Happy to share!

This post has been edited by sh3rli: Dec 12 2009, 05:40 PM

So far I read 4-5 books write by Robert T. Kiyosaki including the famous book "Rich Dad Poor Dad". My understanding regarding the option trading is this technique is most likely resemble technical investor. They can read the pattern of the graph and predict the up and down of the stock market. However, to become the 'real' investor or professional investor or insider investor, we have to learn from the basic knowledge. Otherwise, we will end up being the 'gambler' in stock market.
I think, the best thing for me, to find as many as possible the books about the share trade, read it, and learn all the basic, principles and fundamental of share trading.
One of the claim from the promotion of Mirriam Mac Williams is that they claimed "how to get high returns with low risks without analyzing financial reports and news"....I think this against the basic rules of the professional investor.
Anyway, I agree that she make a lot of money, maybe majority of the money from the high paid seminar and course rather than trade option

How to sniff out if we have zero knowledge?

I have attended one of Mirriam Macwilliams' options trading seminar a few years ago and I would like to give my honest opinion here.
The seminar consist of 4 days live training with Mirriam & Aaron (the CEO of Wealth Mentors) followed by a 6 months coaching program thereafter.

Let's first talk about the 4 days live training. This is usually held in the Grand Dorsett Hotel in Subang, I know because everytime I go back for a refresher, it's at the same place. I do not know why the organizers, Wealth Mentors choose to run the program at this hotel. The venue is very old, toilets are dirty and doors are squeaking with noise. In the 4 days training, participants will learn about the basics of stocks & options, about 4 of mirriam's strategies, some of her stories here and there, etc. Participants will be taught how to open an account with Think or Swim (US broker) and also to set up the charts. From what I can see, the energy is always very positive when Mirriam is speaking and this goes on until the end of 4 days. Mirriam is the one to explain the strategies and Aaron is the one to explain about the finer details like how option works, charting etc. They make a good combination.

Some of the setbacks of the 4 days live training :
1. Most participants get very confused after 4 days of workshop
2. Some of them don't even know how to start trading after the workshop
3. There is not enough time during the 4 days for hands-on practice
4. Participants are served full vegetarian meals for 4 days, simply because the trainers are vegetarian
5. There are not enough people (so-called past graduates) to assist
6. The notes are really all over the place, not structured and not systematic
7. The organizers don't provide free-flow of wifi, participants are expected to bring their own mobile broadband
8. Mirriam's accent can be difficult to follow, especially when she speaks too fast

After the 4 days live training, there will be a 6-months coaching program provided. The coaching includes email, phone, skype support, weekly support sessions at puchong, live webinar with Mirriam every month, weekly alerts from Mirriam, forum, and one-to-one coaching with the coach. The most helpful one is the one-to-one coaching session, as you can get all your questions cleared out at one session.

Some of the setbacks of the 6 months coaching program :
1. Emails may take a few days to be replied. By the time I get a reply, it's irrelevant already.
2. Phone calls on certain days are not attended immediately. The coach will return the call, so have to wait and wait.
3. The weekly support sessions on Monday evenings are very full. When the group gets too big, some people start chit-chatting and this disturbs those who are trying to concentrate.
4. The trainer for the support sessions speaks too soft & slowly. Lack of enthusiasm.
5. The weekly alerts from Mirriam are very general stuff, like a holiday is coming up in US & avoid trading. There is no tips on what to buy and what to look out for.
6. I feel that they are lacking of coaches. If you call up the office and ask to speak to a coach, they will take your number and ask the coach to return call. If you ask them how many coaches they have, they probably can't answer exactly. The staff at the office can't answer simple question on trading, because most of the office staff are not traders. That makes me wonder, if it's really so good, how come the organizers' staff are not trading?
7. The 6-months access to all these support & tools are free, however if you want to continue to access all this, you need to pay a subscription fee of USD50/month. That is a lot of money, considering the fact that I still can't make consistent money after 6 months!!
8. The refresher course is very expensive, RM300/day.

I see that the organizers are very profit-oriented, before you sign up for the program, everything is ideal and perfect. After you sign up for the course, everything seems to be the opposite. Do you know that the people at the preview, supposedly graduates who volunteer their time to help out, are actually paid a commission if you sign up? I'm not sure how much, but i believe it's a huge amount considering that the price of the course is close to RM12,000. I was silly enough to believe the graduates and thought that this is a great opportunity. I believed that since the trainer has appeared in numerous newspapers and tv interviews, it must be the real thing! I was so wrong.

When you search the internet, you will find nothing but good remarks about this course/trainer. No one likes to share when they have made a wrong decision, most will only blame themselves and not the organizer for failure to make money from this seminar. The reason i'm sharing this is because I want those who are considering the seminar to do your own due diligence before signing up blindly. If I were to read honest opinions of past graduates, I would not have attended this course. I believe that everyone deserves the right to know the truth. RM12,000 is not a small sum to be wasted just like that.

I've also went to a "preview" of this, and yes, the scheduled 4 days training was to be held in SJ too, either Grand Dorsett or Holiday Villa - i can't recall.

It was very easy (imho) to spot the "Sales orientation" rather than training orientation (apologies to those who find it good):
1. The "volunteer graduates" are paid some commission. In addition, they mostly (not all) know nuts compared to an active trader with their own systems / methodologies of entries & exits from trading non-options. Even a neophyte may know more than some of these "graduates" in terms REASONING of the methodologies - which, imho, are the most important element of any types of trade.

2. When it is STATED that there are "volunteers" coming back to "help out", U know that the methodologies taught aint working well - if they were, would they be back to help out FOC (supposedly)? I'm sure doing good and good karma comes back to U but via such a channel meh? Donate the $ lar better.

3. The BIGGEST in my face thing jumping around was: It's so easy, xx minutes a day cukup + the "now now now discount! & easy payment".
Alo, if it's true and it's a near sure thing - then why would they be selling the methodology instead of making a killing every day (or whenever there's no holidays, Feds' announcements, etc.)? Options wor, HUGE leverage wor. The "preview" made it sound as though "leverage" is a sure win / +ve thing WITHOUT highlighting that it's a double-edged sword - it can kill U easily if you're on the wrong end. No mention on REASONINGs and Interpretation / Analysis was said - just follow the 20+ counters that Guru-ji says to track and trade those.

end of "Guru-jis BS filter"
Oh btw, for RM14K to RM20K - I'd have bought several basics to advance options trading books + learned hands-on liao. Note - either the above or self-education, your mileage may vary (drastically in some cases)

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: May 23 2011, 12:24 PM

Don't go for it, you'll regret after after the course. Speaking from personal experience.

So many So call Guru of investment in properties, stocks, options, etc. etc.

And all they did was make profit from one or two investment, then make more money from the course they are giving rather than investing.

Totally bullshxt, I must say.

12k for the full course? i think 4 days won't turn you from zero to hero. trading need experience and good judgement.

anyone can tell me why choose to trade option and not forex?

i have the same question,..im forex trader, and i trade at mamak sometimes, and at the place i hangout for trading, theres a chinese uncle trading stock option,..i see the charts a simmiliar to my forex chart,.but there must be differences.but stock option course are really expensive!! u see for 14k i can used it as my deposit to start traading forex and can generate atleast usd70-150 a day by just learning and knowing basic forex trading strategy (resistence, support, pivot, long term trend, short term trend, SL,MM,TP)...

hi wong, i agree with most of the points you make and all i can say is that this is the nature of the training business, and i feel the "problem" is that none of the companies involved is willing to market it differently because it is almost impossible to guarantee success. Leveraged products are high risk investments and definitely not easy to master. I have attended one such workshop by another and have so far so good combined with other critical factors, been able to trade consistently and that is after 3 solid years of hard work. No short cuts.

Your 2nd point, i beg to differ.

I also volunteered a number of times for my guru on 2 main reasons, firstly, to assist out of friendship and mentorship, secondly, i thought it appropriate that we should share the difficulty in the trading journey through our real life experiences.

These are my humble experiences.



edyek,

not total bullshit (though i agree a lot of it is bullshit) i would say ..

I believe these sort of things comes in 2 sides. First, there are definitely a lot of courses built on hype. Secondly, many people just simply love these sort of hype.

There have been successes but what people fail to see most of the times is that those successes did not come easy for those who have been successful. Many trading wannabes need to reign in their desires and over zealousness when looking for gurus. Making money is not an easy game, what more the game is trading of margin products.

12k is way too expensive for such a call. I picked up a book called Covered Call, spend a week to read it, and went into market with USD3k.Then after, I made -3% to 5%(only once) per month, and 1 year now, I got 30% return, that's including Forex loss.

Next I read some books on Technical analysis, went into CPO futures with 10k, and left with 7k now.

For 12 to 18k, you can learn a lot from the market...

wow 12k and most are not happy with the course ?

There's an offer by optionetics at sunway convention centre that expires today that offers 2 days course inclusive of follow ups next 6 months for RM 3,888

At the back of the sign up form it has a guarantee, if you don't make 300% profit within 6 months you get full refund

Was rather excited, but after reading this thread I'm not quite sure -.-

I'm considering to join as well but after reading all this, seriously considering.

Now the course fee is rm14,000, now that's alot of money.

Guys, thanks for sharing your experiences. I attended the preview last night and the fee has reduced to 11.5k. I totally agree with one of your comments where, why do they need to conduct such course if they can make tonnes of money by trading? It is tiring and should they just spend 30mins a day to earn that big buck than trying hard to get students enrolling the course? Anyway, I am glad that I did not sign up yest. else I will have to make a loss of 11.5k before trading...

I oso went to their preview many moons ago, but they r very buss profit oriented, pushing their monthly subscription
their after sales support service is for us to subscribe to their monthly magazine usd300?? so I no join
but u must know tat she made her money from yahoo during the dot com bubble era. there is nothing latest
ie. oil shares during the oil price jump, shorting during the financial crisis, commodities going to the roof

as a rule of thumb, after sales service & support at minimal cost is important
oso ask the trainer, wat is the shares they currently rekomen or wat is the expected market trend
then see for urself the result months later
happy trading!

I went for a similar preview over the weekend, this time the organisers working with Maybank to provide flexible financing over a period of 24 months.

Agree with most of comments posted on the seminar.

Its also Grand Dorsett again and the funny thing is that those interested are asked to sign up on the spot to get discounts and freebies offered. However. 2 days later I received an SMS stating that the offers are being extended for another 3 days!

Moreover, those who are interested but dont have the time yet are asked to pay first and choose the 4 optional dates available next year. How crazy can this go?

I also wonder how a person who has not done any trading before or new to stocks can learn up and start trading after a period of 4 days. Also, as informed, one need to be able to identify suitable companies thru fundamental analysis and do timing trading thru technical analysis. Surely, relying on some "dubious" classification of companies and those online charting available wont turn you into an astute trader.

I am very sure that the amount of monies they generate from such seminars is a much better return that the riskier options trading as this is a "sure win" kind of business.

The preview was pretty successful though with more than a 100 persons turning up, may be for the Smart Investor booklet that they gave out.

For those experienced traders, they might be able to learn something from Mirriam Williams, but definitely not at this price and surely, you dont need 4 days!

i also didn't missed the 2 hrs preview at klang abt 1 yrs ago. at the end i decide not to take the cource. 14,000 US stocks can be options. for me its not eacy to choose.

not fit for me, and not sign up the form.

Hi everybody! Here's my take and hope it helps. I took the course Oct.2010, traded with 'paper' money from the brokerage site for 5 mths; then went 'live' March this year. Depending on the size of your trades, over time, you DO recoup your 'school fees'. For me, I took a little over 1 month to do that. Then, because I didn't follow the 'exit rules', lost 1/2 of what I made because my trade tanked after a 230% run! Now, I make sure I have my 'trailing stops' in place. We are taught all the fundamentals. It's up to us to follow through and apply them mindfully. That's experience. As traders, we never stop learning.

This post has been edited by Harteam: Aug 23 2011, 11:28 AM

Spent too much la... no need learn also can earn from 10% monthly that I saw someone.

I was the pass student of Mirriam. I truely agreed that they are a profit-oriented course provider. Their objective is to make $$ from teaching rather than from real trading. The evidence are:

- the support only last 6 months and need to pay USD50 per month (USD500 per year) for continue support, though you have already paid a high couse fee of RM12k-18k or SGD5k-6k. They are not interest what happen to you after 6 months.

- they want you to continue pay for as an active member to use their stocks scanning software - iF you want to achieve to spent only 30 minutes per day to trade as claimed. Without this scanning software, you could end up spending whole Sunday just to locate one or two potential stocks. (Remember there are few thousand stocks on U.S market). So you have to rely on their software for life.

- all the testimonial are out dated. The same old faces old person appear on advertisement repeatly for years. If it is consistently, then the same old faces of person will have new case or story to back them up. But NONE. Just like you buy lottery, sure got one or two person win, this is how the testimonial comes about.

- always project a positive picture of trading (sure win picture). Never talk or teach about trading psychology. So students all have a high win expectation after the course and are not prepared when in a losing game.

- they claim their methods are very easy and simple. But in reality, it is complicated and time consuming as there are many calculation works.

All my team members I have contacted did not even recover their course fee trading over last 4 years.

As some forumer suggested, best to invest the money in books and go to free leason on Internet. Important is you need to commit time to learn and improve your trading skill.

While I agree that RM11,200 is no small sum, what works for me in the end, is how EFFECTIVE the money was spent. I can say that the 4 short days of learning set me on the road to professional trading. I will try to allay some of the concerns, based on my own experience:

~ In truth, all the analysis, charting, etc. etc. being taught are things that we already learned at Junior High (Secondary) school. They’re NOT rocket science and definitely not as scary as being portrayed.

~ I never went back for any support/revision. When I needed to, I went into their website and looked up the recordings/PDFs of any strategy that had been taught.

~ Therefore, it is NOT NECESSARY to continue ‘going back to school’ (and paying a monthly school fee). The only reason people do that is they initially failed to grasp fully all that was taught.

~ The Stocksfinder is a convenience offered to paid subscribers. It is not a necessity. From your own brokerage site, you should be able to tweak your own basket of stocks to tell yourself which stocks are ‘ripe for trading.’ You’ll know how to do this when you do!

~ After you have ‘test driven’ the rules of trading, strategies and calculations, you’ll know how/when/where/why you can tweak the calculations according to your own needs. As in driving, you must first of all know and obey the rules. These are all for your safety and success! It will not be tedious once these become second nature!

~ Trading is a serious profession which I believe has to be taught INTERACTIVELY. (Do we learn how to drive a car/play a musical instrument by only reading about it?) And if there are any FULL course on trading out there that is also free, please do tell us about it.

~ I can recommend a few psychology-of-trading books for anyone who is interested. This at least is something we don’t need to pay good money for a ‘millionaire trader’ to teach!

~ I was told by a friend who attended a cheaper-by-half course on trading that she actually ended up spending a lot more than I did. The subscription to monthly ‘trigger alerts’ which not always worked was expensive and she ended up losing a lot of money. On top of this, she never learned to trade properly at all.

~ Incidentally, I also met up with a group from 4 years ago who was unsuccessful. Very simply, I told them about a favorite strategy of mine, timing, stock etc. etc. They tried it out and VOILA! It worked for them as well. So now, I have an open pending invite for dinner!

~ I might add I had no previous experience with stocks except the jumping-in-from-hot-tips kind! If I can learn to trade like a professional, a lot of people can!

Methinks none of us here (ass-u-me-ing ar, my bad if i'm mistaken) disagree that trading OR investing can be turbo-charged via learning interactively with an experienced party. However, i think the case here is whether it is of value at $XX,XXX.XX. With that amount of lump sum, one would definitely extrapolate that the guru is making the majority of $ in coaching/training than actual trading (ie. dont eat enough of own dog food, which is being served to the rest). Mind U - it's not a ONE-to-ONE concentrated and personal thing but a gang-bang school thing. If ONE-to-ONE, it may be worthwhile since it can be personalized and absorption of kung-fu increases, LIKE learning how to drive and playing piano

Just a thought yar - not shooting anyone's preference of spending $xx,xxx.xx for a trading workshop (which seem to be marketed as using leverage as a sure-win thing). My apologies for any toes stubbed

This post has been edited by wongmunkeong: Sep 11 2011, 07:20 AM

OK, thanks for the thoughts:-

~ They do/did offer one-on-one tutelage on special request after the course. All you need do is ask.

~ Leverage is only one aspect of Options trading. Of equal importance are the strategies. Combining these, you are able to maximize your capital, PLUS protect it 100% at the beginning, then turning this ‘insurance’ into 100% profit.

~ Trading is NEVER a sure-win thing. But it can be learned. Any course on offer is only the door-opener. The rest is up to us ~ to make use of, and improve on the new-found knowledge. THIS is what is being taught ~ to develop the mind-set of the successful trader.

I disagreed with some of the points mentioned above.

- Are you sure you still can login and access their website after 6 Months for the recording/PDFs/NewsLetters ??? There will shut you out unless you pay up for the monthly subscription.

- there are different type of people, some are fast learner and some are slow learner. Skill of trading is a live long learning process as mentioned. Eventhough you can grasp fully what was taught, but as markets are very dynamic, the methods you learning in the pass may not work in current market environment.

As evident with this Guru is that, she has to keep invent and change strategy and methods to deal with and adjust to the market condition. So from what are taught in 4-5 years ago with only 4 trading strategies to now more than 10 types. So if you stop getting their support after 6 months, over time your trading results will result from positive to negative because those trading strategies you learn are no-longer valid in the current new market envirnoment. This is my true personal experience. In the beginning you are ok because the methods learn are very fresh, adapt and valid to the market envirnoment at that time. The market is moving, it would not stay put. You need to keep on refresh and learn and upgrade.

- yes, you may have a favorite strategy but again, it may work now but it may not work forever. So you still need to go back to the Guru later on.

IMHO, for newbie, read up some topic about stock trading, gain some basic trading knowledge before jump into options. As everyone said, don't run before you can walk. Optoins is a leverage instrutment, is a double-edged sword, you can make alot but you can also loss alot.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^GSPC+I...le=off;source=;

stick with volume, support & resistance. keep any method basic & simple, coz tt is how the mkt works
wait for the market to fulfil your conditions, instead of the other way round or else die running tired for no reason
the bull bear ratio is about to intersect
not all method works 100% but as long as you cut your losses fast & draw your profits to grow, then its goodie







now market is at indecisive phase, neither here nor there
usa dog jones index etf is dia
enter straddle position at strike price, as close to current index price with a long time frame
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ta?s=^DJI&t=5y&...50%2Cm200&a=&c=

bought call options $10.90
bought puts options $14.65
expiring january 18 year 2013
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/os?s=DIA&m=2013-01-18



“Don’t try to buy at the bottom and sell at the top. It can’t be done except by liars.” That said, Baruch said that through all of his time and research, he would develop a “feel” for when it was time to reduce positions. “I made my money by selling too soon.”

http://www.investmentpostcards.com/2008/06...bernard-baruch/

Hi Doji,

~ I logged in during the 6-mth free access right after the course; but for me, there was no need to attend any refresher or support sessions. Of course you cannot log in if you don’t subscribe anymore.

~ The course is a door-opener to on-line trading. The strategies taught are basic strategies used widely in options trading. Once you get past the beginner stage, you will see that it will take HUGE market changes to make these basic option strategies obsolete.

~ I find that keeping to just 1 or 2 strategies with an established basket of stocks, which work for us, will make us more adept at the game. The KISS theory definitely works for me.

~ I’m in total agreement that the monthly subscriptions are for beginners/‘slower learners’, as well as those who would like to keep abreast of market changes, although I would tend to put more weight on the prior group.

~ Oh … so now I see (correct me if I’m wrong) … Your gripe was about the fee rather than the course. But, for such a nominal amount, I think Wealthmentors is doing a great job in providing such comprehensive support to its former students. Plus, like you said, coming up with new strategies etc. etc. all the time!

Lol

Hi Harteam,

You sound like the staff of the course organiser.
Look at the ads on the news paper, the Guru spent 10k and make 2m in 2 years, this ads is appear 5 years ago and is still repearting now. So the Guru stop trading after gaining 2m? What is her result now? (excludes results from other investment, purely Options trading)

Now a day, the ads are camouflage under the U.S stock trading, never mention openly it is an Options trading course. Reason? A real fact is Options trading for the mass retail traders is fast fading out and lost interest in the market now.

The money back guaranteed is a BS. You get refund only before the end of the first day of the course. The most part of the trading course are cover in the 2nd day onward, where day-1 cover only the basic concept, then how do you know whether the course is suitable for you?

I remembered during the preview, someone ask the organiser why they set the course fee so high, the reason given are, the high course fee will make you learn and trade harder, because you feel the need to recover the fee as it is so expensive. This is a flaw, you are adding pressure on your trading.

4 team leaders I know during my batch have drop out because can't get consistency results after few years following the rules that have been taught earlier and subsequent teach to the junior as assigned by the organiser. They have since switch to FX with another group, and managed to recoup losses cummuated previously.

Options trading is not so popular now. There are reason behind it. Options is a complicated instrument come with expiry feature, prices are affected by time factor (expiry date), volatility. Most of the Brokers offer Options trading are U.S based, the value of your money in the account will keep dropping because USD currency rate is dropping (more so the U.S Fed promised to keep USD low for next two years), you have to keep trading and win to cover the loss of the curency rate.

Paying a RMxx,xxx to try out whether you are suitable or is it your cup of coffee, that is your choice......