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 2008 Beijing Olympics:should the world boycott it?, issit a wise move? opinions plz!

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TSbhypp
post Apr 1 2008, 05:04 PM, updated 18y ago

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hmmm....there are so many ongoing issues such as :

-issues on Tibet (genocide, oppression, forced-chinese influx into Tibetian territories, cultural destruction, & etc.)

-rising tensions amongst the Chinese and the minority ethnics,

-very poor track record on human rights and freedom of the press,

-demolition of homes causing locals to live off the streets just to make way for the game

With these issues, there are rising support for a global boycott on the games to send a message to the chinese govt.
Just like the boycott of the 1980 Moscow Olympics.....sending a strong message to the Russians after their invasion of Afghanistan.

juz wanna know what u guys think of it....


beelzebob13
post Apr 1 2008, 05:10 PM

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i can't get involved. look, i can only take you as far as anchorhead.

and did the boycott in 1980 resulted in the ruskies pulling out? i bet you there were many would be olympians who kursed that decisions because they were too old to wait 4 more years because they were used as pawns.
ah_suknat
post Apr 1 2008, 05:11 PM

whoooooooooooooop
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blame the oh-limb-pig board. they should have known this before hand. now only want to kecoh.
TSbhypp
post Apr 1 2008, 05:17 PM

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QUOTE(beelzebob13 @ Apr 1 2008, 05:10 PM)
i can't get involved. look, i can only take you as far as anchorhead.

and did the boycott in 1980 resulted in the ruskies pulling out? i bet you there were many would be olympians who kursed that decisions because they were too old to wait 4 more years because they were used as pawns.
*
yea u got a point that....but if thats the case why not juz boycott the opening ceremony...make them lose face....btu still participate in the games??

so u mean juz leave those issues alone n juz dun bother?
choyster
post Apr 1 2008, 05:20 PM

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nothing will stop china!!!!
joe_mamak
post Apr 1 2008, 05:23 PM

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Don't just boycott, tarik balik the games from China.

Let some other country or countries hold it. biggrin.gif

This would be chaotic, so the games should be split up to various countries.

Blame China and its poor human rights records for this.
SUSvkeong
post Apr 1 2008, 05:24 PM

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SUSsharkteef
post Apr 1 2008, 05:38 PM

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boycotting is a wrong way to go bout this.
aprisis
post Apr 1 2008, 05:41 PM

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We fight for China!
SUSjoe_star
post Apr 1 2008, 05:49 PM

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I would support an official boycott but I believe the atheletes should be allowed to participate. Anyone remember what happened to malaysia back in 80? We qualified to the Moscow Olympis by knocked out South Korea but the team never went due to the official boycott. Our team never reached such heights again.
SUSyukikaze
post Apr 1 2008, 05:59 PM

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then we should boycott US products as well
they invade iraq
their soldiers violate the human right as well as animal
doesnt that sound familiar?
i don;t think so that people should boycott

just my 2 cents
joe_mamak
post Apr 1 2008, 06:00 PM

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Maybe we shouldn't boycott. All the athletes at the opening ceremony (except for China athletes of course) should pull down their shorts and moon the Chinese officials.


Added on April 1, 2008, 6:02 pm

QUOTE(aprisis @ Apr 1 2008, 05:41 PM)
We fight for China!
*
Humans should fight for human rights.

This post has been edited by joe_mamak: Apr 1 2008, 06:05 PM
WillHung
post Apr 1 2008, 06:08 PM

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i think we should. china has little regard for human rights. all they think about is how they can make more money, even if at the expense of their own people.
beelzebob13
post Apr 1 2008, 06:18 PM

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QUOTE(bhypp @ Apr 1 2008, 05:17 PM)
yea u got a point that....but if thats the case why not juz boycott the opening ceremony...make them lose face....btu still participate in the games??

so u mean juz leave those issues alone n juz dun bother?
*
boycott the o.c.? how to keep it a secret from china?

boycott the games?
"in the 100m dash, in first place... china. 2nd place china. third...china."

clearly there are problems in Tibet and all the players involved are playing many grand games before the Olympics even starts.

i'm only a bystander, and the "force" is not with me and clearly i'm just an ordinary farm boy, besides there are so many better equipped.
aprisis
post Apr 1 2008, 06:26 PM

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boycotting seems like a dumb act to me.

politics shouldn't be mixed with sports.

imagine you're of of the chosen athletes, you have trained like mad. then it goes to nothing when some big belly president of your country boycott the game.
joe_mamak
post Apr 1 2008, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(aprisis @ Apr 1 2008, 06:26 PM)
boycotting seems like a dumb act to me.

politics shouldn't be mixed with sports.

imagine you're of of the chosen athletes, you have trained like mad. then it goes to nothing when some big belly president of your country boycott the game.
*
That's not looking at the full picture.

It's about some big belly president that the majority of your country elected who decided to boycott the games as a sign of protest of all the wrong that the country hosting the games had done and continue to do.


sunmenghao
post Apr 1 2008, 06:33 PM

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joe_mamak
post Apr 1 2008, 06:35 PM

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Wrong thread. biggrin.gif
firedauz
post Apr 1 2008, 06:42 PM

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How was China picked to host the Olympic if their records were not good?
joe_mamak
post Apr 1 2008, 06:48 PM

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Just like how USA was given the right to host the Olympics, I suppose.

And like the USSR.

Superpowers. They can do what they want and what are you going to do about it?


TSbhypp
post Apr 1 2008, 06:49 PM

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QUOTE(yukikaze @ Apr 1 2008, 05:59 PM)
then we should boycott US products as well
they invade iraq
their soldiers violate the human right as well as animal
doesnt that sound familiar?
i don;t think so that people should boycott

just my 2 cents
*
im saying boycott the games la...not boycott chinese products....wrong analogy man! cool2.gif
Jasonist
post Apr 1 2008, 06:51 PM

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no... i wana see the Cube!!!
TSbhypp
post Apr 1 2008, 06:52 PM

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QUOTE(aprisis @ Apr 1 2008, 06:26 PM)
boycotting seems like a dumb act to me.

politics shouldn't be mixed with sports.

imagine you're of of the chosen athletes, you have trained like mad. then it goes to nothing when some big belly president of your country boycott the game.
*
erm i think ur abit wrong here.....its not totally politics...yes...autonomy of tibet is a political issue but u can also see it in a humanitarian way....ppl are being murdered everyday in tibet, their culture being destroyed, these are not political issues anymore are they? athletes are humans too....they can all stand together and deliver the message cool2.gif
TSbhypp
post Apr 1 2008, 06:55 PM

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QUOTE(firedauz @ Apr 1 2008, 06:42 PM)
How was China picked to host the Olympic if their records were not good?
*
how did germany / russia get to host olympics in the past then??? well the selection is dodgy anyway....so lets not go into the details....but maybe there are some parties who are hoping that the chinese govt will clean up their acts (teach the ppl how to queue, teach them not to spit, teach them hygiene) and bring themselves up to a standard comparable if not equivalent to all other 'big shot' nations....but i think china is still the old china.... flex.gif

QUOTE(Jasonist @ Apr 1 2008, 06:51 PM)
no... i wana see the Cube!!!
*
u mean the venue?? i only know that besi buruk stadium aka birds nest....

This post has been edited by bhypp: Apr 1 2008, 07:00 PM
beelzebob13
post Apr 1 2008, 06:56 PM

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QUOTE(firedauz @ Apr 1 2008, 06:42 PM)
How was China picked to host the Olympic if their records were not good?
*
QUOTE
Part 1: How China Chosen as 2008 Olympic Host?

The new two-phase host city election procedure, adopted by the 110th IOC Session in December 1999, was used for the election of the host city for the Games of the XXIX Olympiad in 2008.

Following this new procedure, cities must pass an initial selection phase during which basic technical requirements are examined by a team of experts and then put forward to the IOC Executive Board. The 10 applicant cities for the Games of the XXIX Olympiad in 2008 put forward to the IOC Executive Board were: Bangkok, Beijing, Cairo, Havana, Istanbul, Kuala Lumpur, Osaka, Paris, Seville, Toronto.

Once approved by the Executive Board, the cities become official Candidate Cities and are authorised to go forward into the full bid process. The five Candidate Cities for 2008 accepted by the IOC Executive Board on 28 August 2000 were (in the order of drawing of lots): Osaka, Paris, Toronto, Beijing, Istanbul.

The full bid process includes notably the submission of a Candidature File to the IOC, followed by the visit of the IOC Evaluation Commission to each of the Candidate Cities. The Evaluation Commission studies the candidatures of each Candidate City, inspects the sites and submits a written report on all candidatures to the IOC two months before the Session which will elect the host city.On 13 July 2001 at the 112th IOC Session in Moscow, Beijing was elected the Host City for the Games of the XXIX Olympiad in 2008.112th IOC Session in Moscow, 13 July 2001: election of the host city for the XXIX Olympiad in Beijing
one sauce

no where was human rights history or Tibet mentioned.
firedauz
post Apr 1 2008, 07:07 PM

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Thanks beelzebob13 biggrin.gif
Gr3yL3gion81
post Apr 1 2008, 07:18 PM

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I won't support boycott, leave politics out of sports, thank you.

You could only change peoples mind by engaging them, not boycotting them. Hence actions such as this and others like economy sanctions, trade embargo then to be failure.
creap
post Apr 1 2008, 07:36 PM

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The question you should be asking yourself is, why now?

Why not 1 year ago? 2 years ago? Why now? Did China just recently violated human rights? biggrin.gif

PS: That Dalai Lama couldn't have picked a better time. biggrin.gif
p4n6
post Apr 1 2008, 08:27 PM

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I think it's stupid to boycott the game. It solves no problem.
WillHung
post Apr 1 2008, 08:34 PM

really meh?
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QUOTE(p4n6 @ Apr 1 2008, 08:27 PM)
I think it's stupid to boycott the game. It solves no problem.
*
but it would send a signal of disapproval to china with regards to its actions.
zeist
post Apr 1 2008, 08:35 PM

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I heard Yao Ming is injured, won't be able to compete in Olympics. There goes one of their superstar hero.
WillHung
post Apr 1 2008, 08:40 PM

really meh?
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its an extremely polluted city. why anyone would think holding a world class sporting event there is a good idea is a mystery to me.
december88
post Apr 1 2008, 09:04 PM

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QUOTE(WillHung @ Apr 1 2008, 06:08 PM)
i think we should. china has little regard for human rights. all they think about is how they can make more money, even if at the expense of their own people.
*
I disagree with 'china making more money' sure in an ideal world not every one will be 'clean'. but it's the government policies to stay in power, by manipulating the media and various propaganda.


QUOTE(creap @ Apr 1 2008, 07:36 PM)
The question you should be asking yourself is, why now?

Why not 1 year ago? 2 years ago? Why now? Did China just recently violated human rights? biggrin.gif

PS: That Dalai Lama couldn't have picked a better time. biggrin.gif
*
Well if china refuse to negotiate with the Dalai Lama??
so who's being picky now? for all china care they all gonna wait for him to die and ones for all finish off all tibeten culture. China's human right is among the worst in the world, come on guys would you like the government harrasing you unless you are a 'good citizen'. Nvr the less even the US are hypocrites of their own words, especially the Gitmo. I feel european countries are more 'civilised' than the US.

QUOTE(p4n6 @ Apr 1 2008, 08:27 PM)
I think it's stupid to boycott the game. It solves no problem.
*
Agreed with you in this, but freedom of expression is a basic human right so yeah at least china get the message.
SUSvkeong
post Apr 1 2008, 09:22 PM

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QUOTE(WillHung @ Apr 1 2008, 08:40 PM)
its an extremely polluted city. why anyone would think holding a world class sporting event there is a good idea is a mystery to me.
*
it was reported in Discovery channel that China needs to stop all factories and vehicles on the road for at least months to completely clear the air from pollution

I think no sane athlete would want to compete there lmao
kean89
post Apr 1 2008, 09:54 PM

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Since when did the Olympics become so political ? . . shakehead.gif
joe_mamak
post Apr 1 2008, 10:13 PM

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QUOTE(Gr3yL3gion81 @ Apr 1 2008, 07:18 PM)
I won't support boycott, leave politics out of sports, thank you.

You could only change peoples mind by engaging them, not boycotting them. Hence actions such as this and others like economy sanctions, trade embargo then to be  failure.
*
You can't change China's mind. Especially now with its rising power. They will tell everyone to go fly kite.

A boycott will embarrass them a bit. Make her citizens aware that the world has voiced their disapproval.


allspark
post Apr 1 2008, 10:23 PM

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Boycott them! Comunist are still comunist!
miloy2k
post Apr 1 2008, 10:41 PM

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QUOTE(creap @ Apr 1 2008, 07:36 PM)
The question you should be asking yourself is, why now?

Why not 1 year ago? 2 years ago? Why now? Did China just recently violated human rights? biggrin.gif

PS: That Dalai Lama couldn't have picked a better time. biggrin.gif
*
why not Now brows.gif


Gr3yL3gion81
post Apr 1 2008, 10:45 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Apr 1 2008, 10:13 PM)
You can't change China's mind.  Especially now with its rising power.  They will tell everyone to go fly kite. 

A boycott will embarrass them a bit.  Make her citizens aware that the world has voiced their disapproval.
*
This would just their sense of injustice within their citizens, which we have already witnessed by the backlash of "western bias" within Chinese netizens that had serve no point other than angering them in the process.
joe_mamak
post Apr 1 2008, 10:47 PM

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QUOTE(Gr3yL3gion81 @ Apr 1 2008, 10:45 PM)
This would just their sense of injustice within their citizens, which we have already witnessed by the backlash of "western bias" within Chinese netizens that had serve no point other than angering them in the process.
*
That is a possible reaction.

But isn't it time to knock some sense into some of them, few though there might be.


Gr3yL3gion81
post Apr 1 2008, 10:53 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Apr 1 2008, 10:47 PM)
That is a possible reaction. 

But isn't it time to knock some sense into some of them, few though there might be.
*
My forum fren(a Filipino Chinse working in shenzhen) has the best reply so far.

QUOTE
The Chinese' legendary cultural loyalty has been an age old worry of governments everywhere. It can't be helped. It's just the way we are no matter what country we are in (so this is not an issue exclusive to Australia). Even 3rd generation natives to the new home with only 50% Chinese blood (like me) or those whose ancestors have been there in the new home for so long they don't even know when and how they ended up there (like KD) identify themselves as culturally Chinese, and will undoubtedly pass on this cultural identity to a new generation, despite any Westernization that we have gained (and admittedly enjoy) ourselves. This stubbornness is what have allowed our ethnicity to exist for millenia despite all the political changes and upheavals. Others get assimilated. We don't.

Now this cultural loyalty does not automatically mean loyalty to the political entity of China. Heck most of us "left" when the PRC didn't exist yet. But it does translate to sympathy to the ethnic and cultural entity of China, no matter who or what its government happens to be at the moment (We overseas Chinese may hate the CCP's guts, but we are not going to wish for, much less work towards its downfall if it means ruin and chaos for our mainland brethen). Your Chinese-Australians have not seen first-hand information of strife in Tibet, but they have seen first-hand rioters thrashing the Chinese embassy in the city where they live. Based on what you described about their reaction I for one would not expect anything less from them, and am thankful they're disciplined and civil enough not to go on retaliatory rampages themselves. We don't need our image to get tarnished any further.


Western bias against Chinese would not only anger PRC's Chinese only, as well as their own native Chinese as well.
joe_mamak
post Apr 1 2008, 10:58 PM

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So be it.

Over here in Malaysia, I don't think the Malaysian Chinese will be that angry.






Gr3yL3gion81
post Apr 1 2008, 11:02 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Apr 1 2008, 10:58 PM)
So be it. 

Over here in Malaysia, I don't think the Malaysian Chinese will be that angry.
*
Only if our gomen is that stupid enough to boycott Chinese Olympics.
Avex
post Apr 1 2008, 11:03 PM

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i will still watch it on Astro
geolee
post Apr 1 2008, 11:20 PM

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I hate it when people take human rights into account when anything happen
there is no single country which practise RIGHT human rights
There is always a motive behind a human rights

Tibet wants free from China, they protest they riot. That is what we do when we ask for independence.
I don't see what is wrong there.

joe_mamak
post Apr 1 2008, 11:38 PM

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QUOTE(Gr3yL3gion81 @ Apr 1 2008, 11:02 PM)
Only if our gomen is that stupid enough to boycott Chinese Olympics.
*
Our government is not stupid lah.

Our foreign ministry already sent message to Chinese government -

Malaysia backs China in maintaining stability in Tibet
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-03/...ent_7880601.htm

But what if the rioting and the crackdown was in Xinjiang where there are Muslim Chinese? Malaysia as the OIC chair country would have to take a firmer stance.


Gr3yL3gion81
post Apr 1 2008, 11:40 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Apr 1 2008, 11:38 PM)
Our government is not stupid lah. 

Our foreign ministry already sent message to Chinese government -

Malaysia backs China in maintaining stability in Tibet
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-03/...ent_7880601.htm

But what if the rioting and the crackdown was in Xinjiang where there are Muslim Chinese?  Malaysia as the OIC chair country would have to take a firmer stance.
*
Being an anarch, that's the most anticipated war ever.
joe_mamak
post Apr 1 2008, 11:46 PM

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QUOTE(geolee @ Apr 1 2008, 11:20 PM)
I hate it when people take human rights into account when anything happen
there is no single country which practise RIGHT human rights
There is always a motive behind a human rights

Tibet wants free from China, they protest they riot. That is what we do when we ask for independence.
I don't see what is wrong there.
*
Hate is such a strong word. Cool lah. biggrin.gif

Yeah, no country has ideal human rights. Or maybe except for those Nordic countries.

But that's something we humans should aspire to. We might just get there one day.

Even if it wasn't about independence (the Dalai Lama is now only asking for greater freedom and autonomy), the least the Chinese government can do is to treat Tibetans better.




hz428
post Apr 1 2008, 11:54 PM

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boycott??! ARE YOU STUPID OR WHAT??!!!


doh.gif


SOME PEOPLE JUST LIKE TO MAKE SOME HUUUUU HAAAAAA OUT OF NOTHING
POYOZER
post Apr 2 2008, 12:02 AM

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asian for asia
so, no need to boycott
joe_mamak
post Apr 2 2008, 12:07 AM

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QUOTE(hz428 @ Apr 1 2008, 11:54 PM)
boycott??! ARE YOU STUPID OR WHAT??!!!
doh.gif
SOME PEOPLE JUST LIKE TO MAKE SOME HUUUUU HAAAAAA OUT OF NOTHING
*
Out of nothing?

http://www.freetibet.org/press/pr180308.html

Explore the whole site.

PS.
No need to shout and be abusive.

We can be civil in kopitiam, you know?

Of course an English Tea Room, kopitiam isn't. biggrin.gif
joe_mamak
post Apr 2 2008, 12:08 AM

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QUOTE(POYOZER @ Apr 2 2008, 12:02 AM)
asian for asia
so, no need to boycott
*
Tibet for Tibetans. biggrin.gif
maximus85
post Apr 2 2008, 12:52 AM

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fark all this boycott things....

its stupid.....politics shouldnt be put into sports.... doh.gif doh.gif

guess wat...all this boycott stuffs is because the farking US is afraid of the ever growing China force....

the tibet incidents are just an excuse to their agenda.... vmad.gif

this is really the American at their best...... doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif
joe_mamak
post Apr 2 2008, 01:08 AM

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QUOTE(maximus85 @ Apr 2 2008, 12:52 AM)
fark all this boycott things....

its stupid.....politics shouldnt be put into sports.... doh.gif doh.gif

guess wat...all this boycott stuffs is because the farking US is afraid of the ever growing China force....

the tibet incidents are just an excuse to their agenda.... vmad.gif

this is really the American at their best...... doh.gif doh.gif doh.gif
*
Don't see it that way. The US know China won't budge, China will do whatever necessary to hold on to Tibet. The US can't achieve anything tangible.

Perhaps, US and the European countries are reacting that way because they truly believe in speaking out where there is wrong. Well, that's what they are talking about anyway. There might be hidden motives but what can they really achieve?

By the way, even the US Speaker is only calling for Bush to boycott the opening ceremony and not for a complete boycott of the games.

Some news links -

http://www.france24.com/en/20080321-pelosi...-tibet-china-us
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=4563609&page=1




mitodna
post Apr 2 2008, 02:20 AM

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post Apr 2 2008, 02:27 AM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Apr 1 2008, 10:58 AM)
So be it. 

Over here in Malaysia, I don't think the Malaysian Chinese will be that angry.
*
Oh they will be.
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post Apr 2 2008, 02:29 AM

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nobody can stop the ultimate country.
iKen
post Apr 2 2008, 02:45 AM

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These is stupid.

They shouldn't mix sports with politics together.
Fight politic with politic.

Imagine those athletes who work so hard to compete in the Olympic!
They waited so long and the length of being athletes are not long!
skippro
post Apr 2 2008, 03:51 AM

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olympics = $$$$$$. nuff said

& down with f%%%ing china

This post has been edited by skippro: Apr 2 2008, 03:51 AM
feynman
post Apr 2 2008, 06:02 AM

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post Apr 2 2008, 06:35 AM

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QUOTE(iKen @ Apr 2 2008, 02:45 AM)
These is stupid.

They shouldn't mix sports with politics together.
Fight politic with politic.

Imagine those athletes who work so hard to compete in the Olympic!
They waited so long and the length of being athletes are not long!
*
Why not? What reasoning is there to say that you can't mix them both? If by mixing sports and politics, you can achieve something good, why not? Should we not mix them just because someone says they shouldn't be.

I don't support the boycott, but everything in this world is related somehow and I don't see why flimsy ideals of not mixing sports and politics should be observed without taking into account the context and the effects of the relation between sports and politics.

And last of all, Tibetans cannot make any choice at all, so regardless of your arguments for any one side, there is still the issue that Tibet has no right to self-determination.

QUOTE(nnasir @ Apr 2 2008, 06:14 AM)
i honestly feel the double standards applied to china and israel.
*
By who? That's the important question.

cheers
joe_mamak
post Apr 2 2008, 12:13 PM

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QUOTE(ikanayam @ Apr 2 2008, 02:27 AM)
Oh they will be.
*
Maybe not all. I would say maybe half-half.




empyreal
post Apr 2 2008, 12:27 PM

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the olympics has always been political. back in the old days of greece it was the one time the warring greek cities declared truces and competed in the games.

since it costs tonnes of money to lobby (ho ho ho) and to build the infrastructure for the modern olympics, a non-participation is damging. for one, revenues would fall from direct licensing and ticket sales, but that is also a blow for the legitimacy of the nation: they will find it hard to justify the expenditure, and people, as machiavelli noted, might not care for his wife or father, but they sure as hell care for their money.

the other thing a boycott does is to reaffirm the nation's political stance. here in england, the country is quite heaving with indignation over china's brutal treatment of tibet and its workers (from a socialist state, even). thus, to boycott the olympics is simply to follow the will of the people.

crap, is this kopitiam?
TSbhypp
post Apr 2 2008, 04:28 PM

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what a great discussion here...however there are still alot of one liners around...but what more can one ask for? its kopitiam afterall.....

QUOTE(Gr3yL3gion81 @ Apr 1 2008, 10:45 PM)
This would just their sense of injustice within their citizens, which we have already witnessed by the backlash of "western bias" within Chinese netizens that had serve no point other than angering them in the process.
*
well they dont do much anyway....no point of appeasing the people....for china, if u appease the top communist dogs....ur game on...whatever u ask for will be granted....the people can get pissed all they want.....what can they do? vote the govt out of office?? laugh.gif the greater truth is out there...and i think its just them being shallow not knowing it.....

QUOTE(Gr3yL3gion81 @ Apr 1 2008, 10:53 PM)
My forum fren(a Filipino Chinse working in shenzhen) has the best reply so far.
Western bias against Chinese would not only anger PRC's Chinese only, as well as their own native Chinese as well.
*
i dunno why its like this...ppl are culturally inclined....to their own ethnicity of course.....but then again i bet no any culture in the world would condone the act of genocide, blatant oppression of the people (mentally as well...look what they feed them thru tv and the internet), heck they even evict their own ppl, Beijing locals without compensations just to make way for the game....who knows what else would they do in order to reach their goal???

i dont see the act of boycott will anger any overseas / expat chinese....even the PRC chinese whu are currently abroad, free of the govt red-propaganda.....they would soon open their eyes n realize the true nature of their wretched govt....killing of fellow chinese of Falun Gong?? killing of their future leaders, students of the Peking uni in Tiananmen? There is no bigger stage to show our disgust and our opinion than now...when the world is watching....

QUOTE(nnasir @ Apr 2 2008, 06:14 AM)
i honestly feel the double standards applied to china and israel.
*
haha i see that one coming....but has Isreal got plans to organize Olympics?? China is recognized by every country in the world that they are a sovereign nation.....but has Isreal got that worldwide recognition?? If (big big if) Israel gonna host any major sporting events....i think alot of countries will boycott too..... anyway its orange to apple thingy....i think the israel thig we just leave it to a thread of its own....but we r talking bout China's Olympic games here.....

joe_mamak
post Apr 2 2008, 04:34 PM

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kopitiamers are men/women of few words. We squeeze all that we want to say in one line. biggrin.gif
TSbhypp
post Apr 2 2008, 04:42 PM

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» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


refer to page 2 guys.....its not a political issue here.....we are talking bout humanitarian crisis.....i dunno why genocide can be classified as a political issue where only politicians should be involved....

and to maximus85, the voices calling for boycott came mostly from Europe and non-US countries....US has released a statement suggesting their strong support for the games.... icon_rolleyes.gif China might be growing on a double figure GDP but who cares....if they were to catch up with the US...even if US is on a standstill...frozen in time....China would still need 50 years to catch up....

dear Gr3yL3gion81, a boycott of the game is just like a super massive street protest, with unprecedented media coverage....thats all, economic sanctions is a totally different thing man....boycott the game causes them embarassment and just to show them that the world does take their issues in their 'backyard' seriously.....and hopefully that would spurr them to be more open and to actually listen to what others have to say....nothing more....no restriction of their peoples economy or whatsoever thats similar that... just wanna get the message thru.... cool2.gif


Added on April 2, 2008, 4:45 pmoh yea if u guys wanna try the chinese govt's internet oppression crap....just try google (the chinese one....google.com.cn i think) type tiananmen massacre or jsut tiananmen.....look for that tank man picture....bloody famous dude whu made it into Times' 100 man that define the 21st century...see if u guys can spot that dude on the chinese site....then try the 'global' google site....see whats the difference.....or try youtube.....and compare...that would be even more interesting....

This post has been edited by bhypp: Apr 2 2008, 04:48 PM
Gr3yL3gion81
post Apr 2 2008, 05:09 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Apr 2 2008, 01:08 AM)
Don't see it that way.  The US know China won't budge, China will do whatever necessary to hold on to Tibet.  The US can't achieve anything tangible. 

Perhaps, US and the European countries are reacting that way because they truly believe in speaking out where there is wrong.  Well, that's what they are talking about anyway. There might be hidden motives but what can they really achieve?

By the way, even the US Speaker is only calling for Bush to boycott the opening ceremony and not for a complete boycott of the games. 

Some news links -

http://www.france24.com/en/20080321-pelosi...-tibet-china-us
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=4563609&page=1
*
The US should act on issues at their own backyard(read:Guantanamo Bay) before teaching others about human rights, thank you.
iJuzkiD
post Apr 2 2008, 05:34 PM

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somehow i've got the feeling if the world boycotts china it will caue world world III to break out... and countries who suggested this will MAMPOS!! thts us.... omg...

btw... CHINA WILL GROW LARGER! (quoted C&C Generals)
joe_mamak
post Apr 2 2008, 05:52 PM

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QUOTE(Gr3yL3gion81 @ Apr 2 2008, 05:09 PM)
The US should act on issues at their own backyard(read:Guantanamo Bay) before teaching others about human rights, thank you.
*
Guantanamo Bay is meant to detain enemy combatants. biggrin.gif

Anyway, at worst you can call them hypocrites. But still doesn't change a thing about China and its poor human rights record.

This post has been edited by joe_mamak: Apr 2 2008, 05:59 PM
TSbhypp
post Apr 2 2008, 06:05 PM

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QUOTE(iJuzkiD @ Apr 2 2008, 05:34 PM)
somehow i've got the feeling if the world boycotts china it will caue world world III to break out... and countries who suggested this will MAMPOS!! thts us.... omg...

btw... CHINA WILL GROW LARGER! (quoted C&C Generals)
*
abit brainless post dont u think....russia back in the height of the cold war kena a kao kao 1 .....oso din fight back.....coz they kenot juz start a war just like taht and of course they risk getting pwned by US if they do that.... u think the China now can pwn everyone when the soviet back then dun even dare??? think again....1980...cold war....lots of nuclear warheads..... can see the clearer picture now??

joe_mamak
post Apr 3 2008, 11:11 PM

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China is cleaning house before the Olympics.

Chinese civil rights activist sentenced for subversion
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...d.ap/index.html
aprisis
post Apr 3 2008, 11:24 PM

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Boycotting the game will lead to nowhere.
It's like what the US did to Soviet's. Then revenge comes, the Soviet boycotted US's.
kahhuat86
post Apr 3 2008, 11:40 PM

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US, British, Russia or China.. choose 1..

I say Asia Power!

Dun say 1 thing and do 1 thing..

Tell me which country that have no discrimination against minority..

Malaysia? shakehead.gif

Discrimination, corruption, and crime against human rights is everywhere..

Boycott Olympic will oni spoilt the meaning of it.. Olympic is the oni place where all nations are united without discrimination.. Everyone from different races and nationality will play against each other at the same court without any favouring.. Duduk sama rendah, berdiri sama tinggi.. Even superpower nation will have to start from the same line and end at the same line.. No extra advantage for them..And without bias

PEACE
joe_mamak
post Apr 3 2008, 11:45 PM

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QUOTE(kahhuat86 @ Apr 3 2008, 11:40 PM)
US, British, Russia or China.. choose 1..

I say Asia Power!

Dun say 1 thing and do 1 thing..

Tell me which country that have no discrimination against minority..

Malaysia?  shakehead.gif

Discrimination, corruption, and crime against human rights is everywhere..

Boycott Olympic will oni spoilt the meaning of it.. Olympic is the oni place where all nations are united without discrimination.. Everyone from different races and nationality will play against each other at the same court without any favouring.. Duduk sama rendah, berdiri sama tinggi.. Even superpower nation will have to start from the same line and end at the same line.. No extra advantage for them..And without bias

PEACE
*
It isn't about Asian, European or American. So no need to choose.

You say discrimination but you also appear to understand that it goes beyond just that to include human rights.

Just because it happens everywhere doesn't mean we should just don't be bothered.




kahhuat86
post Apr 4 2008, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Apr 3 2008, 11:45 PM)
It isn't about Asian, European or American.  So no need to choose. 

You say discrimination but you also appear to understand that it goes beyond just that to include human rights.

Just because it happens everywhere doesn't mean we should just don't be bothered.
*
Im not saying not to don't bother..

But boycott olympic is not the way.. Im replying to the topic..
joe_mamak
post Apr 4 2008, 12:20 AM

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QUOTE(kahhuat86 @ Apr 4 2008, 12:09 AM)
Im not saying not to don't bother..

But boycott olympic is not the way.. Im replying to the topic..
*
Then what is the way? For over 50+ decades it has really been no way for the Tibetans.

BTW, the boycott could be just for the opening and/or the closing ceremony. Or country leaders, just giving the event a miss.
kahhuat86
post Apr 4 2008, 01:58 AM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Apr 4 2008, 12:20 AM)
Then what is the way?  For over 50+ decades it has really been no way for the Tibetans. 

BTW,  the boycott could be just for the opening and/or the closing ceremony.  Or country leaders, just giving the event a miss.
*
bruther, me replying to the topic which says boycott entire olympic.. not replying to u..

Anyway.. it is very naive thinking by saying boycott olympic opening/closing is enuf.. wont change a thing..

The best way is embargo china.. oni if US and europe country support it.. but which country wanna risk to lost their billion dollar investment in china..
joe_mamak
post Apr 4 2008, 10:11 AM

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QUOTE(kahhuat86 @ Apr 4 2008, 01:58 AM)
bruther, me replying to the topic which says boycott entire olympic.. not replying to u..

Anyway.. it is very naive thinking by saying boycott olympic opening/closing is enuf.. wont change a thing..

The best way is embargo china.. oni if US and europe country support it.. but which country wanna risk to lost their billion dollar investment in china..
*
I think a boycott of the opening and closing would be effective. It embarrasses the Chinese government and also sends a message to the Chinese citizens that some countries disapprove what their country is doing.

That is one small step but it is a realistic and a doable step, rather than a trade embargo which isn't going to happen anytime soon.


feynman
post Apr 4 2008, 10:18 AM

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Ini semua kerja orang gila punya lah......
TSbhypp
post Apr 4 2008, 07:10 PM

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i dunno why ppl still got this 'ethnicity' inclination in their mentality...well for me.....if i were to choose the 4 powers uve said...i wud choose the one thats hav a better track record.....rather than choosing the asian one coz im asian...

anyway trade embargo is not the issue discussed here so u r the one off topic...we r just discussing if the action of a boycott (of any form / extend) is necessary....

for me im all for it...no better time than now to show that china cant do whatever they please, even if its in their own backyard....no better time to stop their ignorance.....
Zard
post Apr 4 2008, 07:20 PM

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why don't just boycott America, huh war with iraq, afgan, vietnam...the list goes on and on. talking about human rights. clean up ur own mess b4 start criticizing everyone
tongyam
post Apr 4 2008, 07:28 PM

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wat u say!! u say wattt!!!
gniusinc
post Apr 4 2008, 07:51 PM

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nice song thumbup.gif
funny version laugh.gif

This post has been edited by gniusinc: Apr 4 2008, 07:52 PM
tongyam
post Apr 4 2008, 07:58 PM

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QUOTE(gniusinc @ Apr 4 2008, 07:51 PM)
nice song thumbup.gif
funny version  laugh.gif
*
back to last year....bcoz of welcome to beijing...i kena ban 1 week sleep.gif
TSbhypp
post Apr 4 2008, 09:58 PM

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QUOTE(Zard @ Apr 4 2008, 07:20 PM)
why don't just boycott America, huh war with iraq, afgan, vietnam...the list goes on and on. talking about human rights. clean up ur own mess b4 start criticizing everyone
*
ermm dude....we talking bout beijing olympics here....so i take it as a 'no' from you? if america's gonna host an olympics rite now....be my guest to start a call for a boycott.....but that is not the case here....we r talking bout beijing right now....why do u guys always need to bring in ameica into this...the call for boycott is not spearheaded by the states.....its just groups of ppl that care thats been voicing out......who dont belong to any particular political faction....
Zard
post Apr 4 2008, 10:41 PM

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pot calling the kettle black, i found that what lacking in most argument is china's point of view. Plan to visit more foreign forums to gather more insights. To just rely on one side of the coin is just plain useless sounds more like STAR reporting

This post has been edited by Zard: Apr 4 2008, 11:30 PM
joe_mamak
post Apr 5 2008, 12:21 AM

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QUOTE(Zard @ Apr 4 2008, 10:41 PM)
pot calling the kettle black, i found that what lacking in most argument is china's point of view. Plan to visit more foreign forums to gather more insights. To just rely on one side of the coin is just plain useless sounds more like STAR reporting
*
China's point of view is clear enough already. Tibet belongs to China and China will do whatever it takes to ensure that doesn't change. Whatever includes putting down any dissent from the Tibetans in whatever form. Please feel free to enlighten us if there is more.

PS
Don't know why you are using the idiom pot calling the kettle black. Care to explain?


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post Apr 5 2008, 02:41 AM

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Personally I choose "NO".

This is the Olympics and not a conference of one's personal agenda.

Tibet belongs to China which goes the same for Taiwan.

Hence, Let the Chinese goverment sort out their own problems.


Human rights activitist can express their POV but don't over do it.

At the end of the day, It's the Chinese goverment who runs the show and by doing this. It sure will be hard on the tibetians.

Personally, I feel the Dalai Lama who claim he has nothing to do with it should have done something on this.

Yes, Everyone has rights but there is a certain degree of respect it should expressed.
Zard
post Apr 5 2008, 08:00 AM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Apr 5 2008, 12:21 AM)
China's point of view is clear enough already.  Tibet belongs to China and China will do whatever it takes to ensure that doesn't change.  Whatever includes putting down any dissent from the Tibetans in whatever form.  Please feel free to enlighten us if there is more. 

PS
Don't know why you are using the idiom pot calling the kettle black.  Care to explain?
*
What i am referring is to China Chinese point of view vs Western people point of view vs India's point of view vs the rest of the world's point of view. Want to know more go and read other forums, form your own conclusion. International politics is complicated enough, to blindly follow the western world point of view is just plain bias.

RWI there is one thread on the same topic, some of them highlighted many real political issues. That is why i don't just buy the whole boycott completely. I haven't live in China nor visit tibet b4, i am not pro-china either. Environmental issue is what i don't like about China.

Did you read my previous post, pot calling the kettle black meaning b4 the western world start pointing finger at other's wrongdoing, why not assess their own wrong doing. Human rights, to me American's love to point finger at others, they interpret it as they like, their version and China has their version, Malaysia have own our version, so which version? If you are brought up overseas in America, yes your mind is set to freedom the best country in the world. You come back to Malaysia, and criticize on everything, do you ever have a clue on how things are run in Malaysia. Dude Rome is not built in one day ok. It is not easy to understand tibetan's struggle yet what about those dead Han-Chinese people, so their death is also justifiable by those Tibet's human right agenda? Like malaysian like to put it Mati Katak. I am only interested in the options available to solve such matters. So after boycotting will the problem go away. I don't think so, it will still persist.

Same story goes to those boycotting Dutch product. UMNO ask us to boycott them, so have you learn what is the whole story about? I don't boycott them because everyone has their own political views. Our local news media like theSTAR, NewStraitsTimes, TV3 if those were western media, do you still believe in them? This is not RWI, and not a serious discussion thread, so commenting in such detail is pointless. If you feel like commenting some more, i suggest you go get a Phd and write out a detail research, published it,by then i will take u seriously. By the way i am no expert in this political field, i only learn not to accept one sided view.

This post has been edited by Zard: Apr 5 2008, 09:39 AM
joe_mamak
post Apr 5 2008, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(Zard @ Apr 5 2008, 08:00 AM)
What i am referring is to China Chinese point of view vs Western people point of view vs India's point of view vs the rest of the world's point of view. Want to know more go and read other forums, form your own conclusion. International politics is complicated enough, to blindly follow the western world point of view is just plain bias.

RWI there is one thread on the same topic, some of them highlighted many real political issues. That is why i don't just buy the whole boycott completely. I haven't live in China nor visit tibet b4, i am not pro-china either. Environmental issue is what i don't like about China.

Did you read my previous post, pot calling the kettle black meaning b4 the western world start pointing finger at other's wrongdoing, why not assess their own wrong doing. Human rights, to me American's love to point finger at others, they interpret it as they like, their version and China has their version, Malaysia have own our version, so which version? If you are brought up overseas in America, yes your mind is set to freedom the best country in the world. You come back to Malaysia, and criticize on everything, do you ever have a clue on how things are run in Malaysia. Dude Rome is not built in one day ok. It is not easy to understand tibetan's struggle yet what about those dead Han-Chinese people, so their death is also justifiable by those Tibet's human right agenda? Like malaysian like to put it Mati Katak. I am only interested in the options available to solve such matters. So after boycotting will the problem go away. I don't think so, it will still persist.

Same story goes to those boycotting Dutch product. UMNO ask us to boycott them, so have you learn what is the whole story about? I don't boycott them because everyone has their own political views. Our local news media like theSTAR, NewStraitsTimes, TV3 if those were western media, do you still believe in them? This is not RWI, and not a serious discussion thread, so commenting in such detail is pointless. If you feel like commenting some more, i suggest you go get a Phd and write out a detail research, published it,by then i will take u seriously. By the way i am no expert in this political field, i only learn not to accept one sided view.
*
Re your first paragraph. What you have left out entirely is the Tibetan's point of view. We should consider their views as well.

I speak only for myself, I am not so much influenced by the West's point of view. What I do know is that the Tibetans have been living under harsh conditions for decades and something needs to be done. Thousands have been killed and imprisoned over the years.

A boycott may not make the problem go away but certainly neither is doing nothing, looking at how the Chinese are handling the situation on the ground, in their media and in their official government responses.

Lastly, this is kopitiam. We don't need to take things too seriously in here. Certainly not to the extent of acquiring a PhD before commenting further.


Zard
post Apr 5 2008, 03:59 PM

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when i mean China chinese, meaning Tibetan included, so Tibetan ain't chinese huh joe_mamak? There are Han-Chinese, so there are Tibetan-chinese. So what did i say about research again?

This post has been edited by Zard: Apr 5 2008, 04:28 PM
TSbhypp
post Apr 5 2008, 05:41 PM

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lol...they might be chinese but their of different ethnic origin....like we are all malaysians but we hav different ethnicity as well....
cymon
post Apr 5 2008, 06:13 PM

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why ban leh?

will you ban chinese if you hear the hokkien vs teochew at somewhere else in malaysia?
simple as that.

even we chinese also hav teochew, hakka, hailam, hokkien, canto & etc..

will you ban our govt. for giv us what we got today?
think about it. ban is not solution.

if ban can change the fact, why not we ban proton.
well at least we can get cheaper car in future, who know?

Nub!
post Apr 5 2008, 06:17 PM

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Boycott Beijing Olympics for the Tibet issue?
Should the world boycott Malaysia for race equality and government corruptions issues?


Edit - Oh by the way, stop giving a damn on other countries when you can not even make your own country a better place to be.

This post has been edited by Nub!: Apr 5 2008, 06:18 PM
cymon
post Apr 5 2008, 06:18 PM

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QUOTE(Nub! @ Apr 5 2008, 06:17 PM)
Boycott Beijing Olympics for the Tibet issue?
Should the world boycott Malaysia for race equality and government corruptions issues?
*
direct to the point nod.gif


joe_mamak
post Apr 5 2008, 06:18 PM

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QUOTE(Zard @ Apr 5 2008, 03:59 PM)
when i mean China chinese, meaning Tibetan included, so Tibetan ain't chinese huh joe_mamak? There are Han-Chinese, so there are Tibetan-chinese. So what did i say about research again?
*
No, Tibetans are not Chinese. Just like if China invaded Malaysia tomorrow, we won't be Chinese either. laugh.gif

PS
There isn't a need to take a dig at me. biggrin.gif






joe_mamak
post Apr 5 2008, 06:23 PM

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QUOTE(Nub! @ Apr 5 2008, 06:17 PM)
Boycott Beijing Olympics for the Tibet issue?
Should the world boycott Malaysia for race equality and government corruptions issues?
Edit - Oh by the way, stop giving a damn on other countries when you can not even make your own country a better place to be.
*
I did my bit last election. Besides, no one here is blatantly getting killed, imprisoned or having his culture subject to genocide.


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post Apr 5 2008, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Apr 5 2008, 01:45 PM)
I speak only for myself, I am not so much influenced by the West's point of view.  What I do know is that the Tibetans have been living under harsh conditions for decades and something needs to be done.  Thousands have been killed and imprisoned over the years.   

A boycott may not make the problem go away but certainly neither is doing nothing, looking at how the Chinese are handling the situation on the ground, in their media and in their official government responses. 

*
Tibetans have had donation pouring from every part of the world, lots of them. NGOs for Human Rights especially and you can even find them in Malaysia. So where is the fund? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know the answer if you just have a peek at the Dalai Lama's lifestyle. biggrin.gif So who is making the Tibetans suffer?

This boycott will do no good at all, especially boycotting the Olympics after China putting so much money and effort on it. The more they pressure China, the more China will react by refusing to budge from their stand. They are proud that they are given a chance to host the Olympics and they will in no circumstance, believe that they are actually on par with top nations, to show their superiority over Tibet by giving them a small "payback". smile.gif

Though Steven Spielberg's withdrawal and overeaction still made me LOL for some time few weeks ago.

joe_mamak
post Apr 5 2008, 07:19 PM

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QUOTE(creap @ Apr 5 2008, 07:01 PM)
Tibetans have had donation pouring from every part of the world, lots of them. NGOs for Human Rights especially and you can even find them in Malaysia. So where is the fund? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know the answer if you just have a peek at the Dalai Lama's lifestyle. biggrin.gif So who is making the Tibetans suffer?

This boycott will do no good at all, especially boycotting the Olympics after China putting so much money and effort on it. The more they pressure China, the more China will react by refusing to budge from their stand. They are proud that they are given a chance to host the Olympics and they will in no circumstance, believe that they are actually on par with top nations, to show their superiority over Tibet by giving them a small "payback".  smile.gif

Though Steven Spielberg's withdrawal and overeaction still made me LOL for some time few weeks ago.
*
You see this as a humanitarian aid problem? I think you should find out more about what the Tibetans are asking for.

Here, try this. http://www.tibet.com/







TSbhypp
post Apr 6 2008, 12:06 AM

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QUOTE(creap @ Apr 5 2008, 07:01 PM)

This boycott will do no good at all, especially boycotting the Olympics after China putting so much money and effort on it. The more they pressure China, the more China will react by refusing to budge from their stand. They are proud that they are given a chance to host the Olympics and they will in no circumstance, believe that they are actually on par with top nations, to show their superiority over Tibet by giving them a small "payback".  smile.gif

Though Steven Spielberg's withdrawal and overeaction still made me LOL for some time few weeks ago.
*
if china turned into some arrogant n ignorant prick like what uve said....they are goin to face some serious repercussions from the world.....this is typical asian thinking.....i think there was this saying of "hitting ones child just to make others think that they are in control" this is so wrong....

given that theyve put in so much effort into this...im sure they dont want the world to taint this olympic games and they should pay more attention to what they r doing currently and take a long good look at themselves....

like i said....with so much at stake....theres no better chance to make a statement......and i think the its now or never for the Tibetian to stand up and make it happen....remember...the Dalai Lama wanted more power in self governance but still be part of china....like an autonomous region....but the fellow Tibetians...some had gone to more extreme measures saying that the Dalai Lama has been trying for ages but hasnt got the results....so they are now acting on their own will, fueled by the years of blatant oppression and persecution, going to use the games as a platform to show the world how much theyve been thru and hopefully someone will come and take the misery out off them.....

with so much wrongdoings going around...i dunno why there are still ppl supporting the chinese...yea there are plenty of ppl saying that the USA is just as cruel as the Chinese bla bla bla....so does it mean that we can just allow oppression n murder overrule humanity.....each every little effort counts.....we as part of the global community has failed to quell the US's aggression and yet we still wanna allow the chinese to do the same, going on to murder more people?

by recognizing the chinese olympics and singing praises for its success and etc is just an indirect way of recognizing and approving the acts of the chinese govt.....i think if we do that...we are sending the wrong signals in and we wouldnt want our so called 'superpower in the making' to learn that its okay to kill ppl, override human rights and etc.


minority
post Apr 7 2008, 07:42 AM

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QUOTE(Zard @ Apr 5 2008, 03:59 PM)
when i mean China chinese, meaning Tibetan included, so Tibetan ain't chinese huh joe_mamak? There are Han-Chinese, so there are Tibetan-chinese. So what did i say about research again?
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The Tibetan language is indeed part of the Sino-Tibetan language.

But you're saying that's a reason why we shouldn't let Tibet people decide for themselves?

The Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia all contain native languages of the same Malayo-Polynesian language. Does that mean we should all unite into a single country?

I think too many people are missing the fundamental fact that the Tibetans cannot decide for themselves what path they are to take.

QUOTE(Nub! @ Apr 5 2008, 06:17 PM)
Boycott Beijing Olympics for the Tibet issue?
Should the world boycott Malaysia for race equality and government corruptions issues?
Edit - Oh by the way, stop giving a damn on other countries when you can not even make your own country a better place to be.
*
Erm, why not we criticise and try to fix problems in BOTH places? Multitask.

cheers
joe_mamak
post Apr 8 2008, 12:36 AM

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Olympic torch hit by protests during Paris leg
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/0...elay/index.html


empyreal
post Apr 8 2008, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(creap @ Apr 5 2008, 07:01 PM)
Tibetans have had donation pouring from every part of the world, lots of them. NGOs for Human Rights especially and you can even find them in Malaysia. So where is the fund? You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know the answer if you just have a peek at the Dalai Lama's lifestyle. biggrin.gif So who is making the Tibetans suffer?

This boycott will do no good at all, especially boycotting the Olympics after China putting so much money and effort on it. The more they pressure China, the more China will react by refusing to budge from their stand. They are proud that they are given a chance to host the Olympics and they will in no circumstance, believe that they are actually on par with top nations, to show their superiority over Tibet by giving them a small "payback".  smile.gif

Though Steven Spielberg's withdrawal and overeaction still made me LOL for some time few weeks ago.
*
so we should go along with china because they've thrown a lot of money on it? or is it that we should go along with the current atrocities in order for china to refrain from an even worse atrocity?
minority
post Apr 8 2008, 08:50 AM

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Some say that if we just let China continue to inundate Tibet with immigrants, Tibetan independence/autonomy would no longer be an issue and we will no longer have to feel guilty about it.

Meanwhile, someone in RWI is insisting China is democratic.

cheers
zimhibikie
post Apr 8 2008, 09:06 AM

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The world should boycott the Beijing Olympics...PRC cannot just going around oppressing and killing Tibetans and then welcome world athletes with open arms and smiling faces and expect we forget what is going on in Tibet
TSbhypp
post Apr 8 2008, 09:44 AM

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QUOTE(minority @ Apr 8 2008, 08:50 AM)
Some say that if we just let China continue to inundate Tibet with immigrants, Tibetan independence/autonomy would no longer be an issue and we will no longer have to feel guilty about it.

Meanwhile, someone in RWI is insisting China is democratic.

cheers
*
wakakakak the biggest joke of the year u sure its from RWI and not from jokes corner???

ahhhh the olympic torch bearer was 'assaulted' by pro tibetian supporters....i think i saw some fire-extinguisher kinda whitish flume sprayed towards the torch....this is how intense it is rite now.....and what the chinese media show??? ppl applauding 'their' olympic torch juz for a few seconds....when i thought they would hav a 24/7 torch watch program on tv....since they are all so full of themselves after they got the right to host the olympics....


ive seen some interviews done on the average Chinese from the streets of shanghai....of course they didnt know that their beloved torch is being 'harrassed' everywhere it goes......and when were told about that.....they thought its some practical joke....some even hav dared to say......"is this some dalai lama shizz?"

now now....an olympic boycott of the opening ceremony itself would suffice already.....just to open the eyes of the Chinese....to an issue that has been long overdue and with too many innocent lives lost....
Parrot
post Apr 8 2008, 10:27 AM

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I for one have this thing to say: Sucks to be a Chinese national.

I have to sympatised with them though. Their pride and joy isn't moving along as planned.
lamely_named
post Apr 8 2008, 11:26 AM

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Must boycott china olympic, becoz I want WW3. China+russia+mid east VS everyone else.

A war to end all wars, everybody dies, yay!!!

No need to worry about anything anymore, when the nuke hit us, everybody happy.

Receive 72 virgins.


Parrot
post Apr 8 2008, 02:47 PM

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Let's see if you guys practice what you preach.

The torch is scheduled to be carried around our capital city on April 21 (because Wikifagia says so). That's a Monday, FYI.

So what will you do? Protest on the street on behalf of the lil' Tibetans and risk getting assraped by the coppers, or stay in your air-conned office/computer lab and complain on the Inteweebs again?
zimhibikie
post Apr 8 2008, 03:01 PM

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Must boycott beijing Olympics..

Reborn as a monkey in next life..
Parrot
post Apr 8 2008, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(lamely_named @ Apr 7 2008, 10:26 PM)
Must boycott china olympic, becoz I want WW3. China+russia+mid east VS everyone else.

A war to end all wars, everybody dies, yay!!!

No need to worry about anything anymore, when the nuke hit us, everybody happy.

Receive 72 virgins.
*
Do you want some ice-cream?
joe_mamak
post Apr 8 2008, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(Parrot @ Apr 8 2008, 02:47 PM)
Let's see if you guys practice what you preach.

The torch is scheduled to be carried around our capital city on April 21 (because Wikifagia says so). That's a Monday, FYI.

So what will you do? Protest on the street on behalf of the lil' Tibetans and risk getting assraped by the coppers, or stay in your air-conned office/computer lab and complain on the Inteweebs again?
*
Lets see if polis kata jangan or not first.
mfaizalzul
post Apr 8 2008, 04:23 PM

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Yes! rclxms.gif rclxms.gif rclxms.gif
TSbhypp
post Apr 8 2008, 07:37 PM

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QUOTE(Parrot @ Apr 8 2008, 02:47 PM)
Let's see if you guys practice what you preach.

The torch is scheduled to be carried around our capital city on April 21 (because Wikifagia says so). That's a Monday, FYI.

So what will you do? Protest on the street on behalf of the lil' Tibetans and risk getting assraped by the coppers, or stay in your air-conned office/computer lab and complain on the Inteweebs again?
*
hahaha....good one there...if we hav the luxury of the freedom to hold gatherings....im pretty sure there will be groups of concerned ppl whu will do it....for us here....we cant do it as a gathering of more than 8 (i think im not too sure) is considered illegal and can be detained under ISA under illegal gathering.......if we apply for a permission for demonstration....we might not get it as Msia is pretty damn sure dun wanna hav any friction in its relationship with China...unless ur Khairy Jamaluddin or sth..... laugh.gif

so i guess u, parrot, r not supporting a boycott of the games?? well care to tell us why?? im pretty eager to hear ur opinions...since u r so opinionated and even questioned the ones whu are supporting this.....well ive joined a Free Tibetian Rally the other day.... icon_rolleyes.gif
TSbhypp
post Apr 8 2008, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(lamely_named @ Apr 8 2008, 11:26 AM)
Must boycott china olympic, becoz I want WW3. China+russia+mid east VS everyone else.

A war to end all wars, everybody dies, yay!!!

No need to worry about anything anymore, when the nuke hit us, everybody happy.

Receive 72 virgins.
*
i think this is another pretty dumb-kopitiam-ish post....how can it lead to WW3??? even a big big global boycott on the 1980s Soviet Olympics did not cause a war.....during the peak of the cold war....when the world's nuclear arsenal is at its peak.....and what it gotta do with 72virgins??

Polaris
post Apr 8 2008, 07:49 PM

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QUOTE(bhypp @ Apr 1 2008, 05:04 PM)
hmmm....there are so many ongoing issues such as :

-issues on Tibet  (genocide, oppression, forced-chinese influx into Tibetian territories, cultural destruction, & etc.)

-rising tensions amongst the Chinese and the minority ethnics,

-very poor track record on human rights and freedom of the press,

-demolition of homes causing locals to live off the streets just to make way for the game

With these issues, there are rising support for a global boycott on the games to send a message to the chinese govt.
Just like the boycott of the 1980 Moscow Olympics.....sending a strong message to the Russians after their invasion of Afghanistan.

juz wanna know what u guys think of it....
*
It's only 1 month they show Olympics while they show EPL 47 months in between.. it's already a natural boycott.

Olympics is so unpopular in this world.
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post Apr 8 2008, 10:35 PM

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http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=4609265&page=1
Protests May Force Cancellation of the Olympic Torch Relay

Excerpt -

In China, today, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu refused to concede the Paris relay had been marred by protests and cut short, insisting it was "successfully completed." China is also flatly denying reports that the torch or flame was extinguished at any time.

laugh.gif Denial.

More -

"The holy flame of the Olympics belongs to people worldwide. The disruption and sabotage of the torch relay is a challenge to the Olympic charter and spirit, the world legal system and peace loving people around the world," Jiang told reporters.

Right. Tibetans were peace loving people.....
TSbhypp
post Apr 9 2008, 12:00 AM

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lol....like that one there....tibetians were peaceful ppl
joe_mamak
post Apr 10 2008, 11:42 PM

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Just to give some balance. biggrin.gif

The following is from a writer named Foster Stockwell. Some pro-Tibet supporters label him as pro-China while others see him as someone with an independent view.

----------------------------------------------

Myth and Reality
Tibet's isolation and unique religious practices
have made it the focus of many Western myths.

by Foster Stockwell

Western concepts of Tibet embrace more myth than reality. The idea that Tibet is an oppressed nation composed of peaceful Buddhists who never did anyone any harm distorts history. In fact the belief that the Dalai Lama is the leader of world Buddhism rather than being just the leader of one sect among more than 1,700 "Living Buddhas" of this unique Tibetan form of the faith displays a parochial view of world religions.

The myth, of course, is an outgrowth of Tibet's former inaccessibility, which has fostered illusions about this mysterious land in the midst of the Himalayan Mountains -- illusions that have been skillfully promoted for political purposes by the Dalai Lama's advocates. The myth will inevitably die, as all myths do, but until this happens, it would be wise to learn a few useful facts about this area of China.

First, Tibet has been a part of China ever since it was merged into that country in 1239, when the Mongols began creating the Yuan Dynasty (1271-1368). This was before Marco Polo reached China from Europe and more than two centuries before Columbus sailed to the New World. True, China's hold on this area sometimes appeared somewhat loose, but neither the Chinese nor many Tibetans have ever denied that Tibet has been a part of China from the Yuan Dynasty to this very day.

The early Tibetans evolved into a number of competing nomadic tribes and developed a religion known as Bon that was led by shamans who conducted rituals that involved the sacrifice of many animals and some humans. These tribes fought battles with each other for better grazing lands, battles in which they killed or made slaves of those they conquered. They roamed far beyond the borders of Tibet into areas of China's Sichuan and Yunnan provinces, Xinjiang, Gansu, and Qinghai. Eventually one of these tribes, the Tubo, became the most powerful and took control of all Tibet. (The name Tibet comes from Tubo.) During China's Tang Dynasty (618-907), Emperor Taizong improved relations with the Tubo king, Songtsen Gampo, by giving him one of his daughters, Princess Wenzheng, in marriage. The Tubos, in response to this cementing of relations, developed close fraternal ties with the Tang court, and the two ruling powers regularly exchanged gifts.

The princess arrived in Tibet with an entourage of hundreds of servants, skilled craftspeople, and scribes. She was a Buddhist, as were all of the Tang emperors, and so Buddhism entered Tibet mainly through her influence, only to be suppressed later by resentful Bon shamans. Some years later another Tang princess was married to another Tubo king, again to cement relations between the two rulers.

The fact that the Tibetans and the Chinese had united royal families and engaged actively in trade (Tibetan horses for tea of the Central Plain) didn't mean an absence of conflict between them. Battles occasionally occurred between Tang and Tubo troops, mostly over territorial issues. At one point in the 750s, the Tubos, taking advantage of a rebellion against the Tangs by other armed groups in China, raced on horseback across China to enter the Tang capital of Chang'an. But, they couldn't hold the city.

In 838, the Tubo king was assassinated by two pro-Bon ministers, and the Bon religion was re-established as the only acceptable religion in Tibet. Buddhists were widely persecuted and forced into hiding.

Trade between Tibet and the interior areas continued during the Five Dynasties (907-960) and the Song Dynasty (960-1279) that followed the collapse of the Tang, although relations between the two ruling powers were limited. During this time Buddhism revived in Tibet as a result of the Buddhists' willingness to accommodate some Bon practices. The form of Buddhism that resulted from this merging of the two religions was quite different from that of China and other countries in Southeast Asia, as well as from the form that had been practiced previously in Tibet.

Tibetan Buddhism, often called Lamaism, appealed to the Mongols, who conquered most of Russia, parts of Europe, and all of China under the leadership of Genghis Khan. The Mongols, like the Tibetans, were tribal herders who had a religion of animism similar to Bon.

When Kublai Khan, the first Yuan emperor, appointed administrators to Tibet, he elevated the head of the Tibetan Buddhist Sakya sect to the post of leader of all Buddhists in China, thus giving this monk greater power than any Buddhist had ever held before - and probably since. Needless to say, the appointment irritated the leaders of the other Buddhist sects in Tibet and the much larger group of non-Tibetan Buddhists in China. But, they couldn't do anything to counter the wishes of the emperor.

The Yuan Dynasty divided Tibet into a series of administrative areas and put these areas under the charge of an imperial preceptor. Furthermore, the Yuan court encouraged the growth of feudal estates in Tibet as a way to maintain control there.

When the Yuan Dynasty collapsed, it was replaced by the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), which wasn't composed of persons of Mongolian heritage. Tibet then became splintered because the Ming court adopted a policy of granting hereditary titles to many nobles and a policy of divide and rule.

Although the Ming court conferred the honorific title of Desi (ruling lama) to the head of one of Tibet's most powerful families, the Rinpung family, they also bestowed enough official titles to his subordinates to encourage separatist trends within the local Tibetan society. One of these titles was given to the head of the newly founded Gelugpa sect, better known as the Yellow sect. He later took on the title "Dalai Lama."

Tibet During the Qing Dynasty
The next and last dynasty, the Qing, came to power in 1644 and lasted until 1911. At the time of its founding, the most prominent Tibetan religious and secular leaders were the fifth Dalai Lama, the fourth Panchen Lama, and Gushri Khan. They formed a delegation that arrived at the Chinese capital, Beijing, in 1652.

Before they returned to Tibet the following year, the emperor officially conferred upon Lozang Gyatso (the then Dalai Lama), the honorific title "The Dalai Lama, Buddha of Great Compassion in the West, Leader of the Buddhist Faith Beneath the Sky, Holder of the Vajra." (Dalai is Mongolian for "ocean"; lama is a Tibetan word that means "guru.")

The fifth Dalai Lama pledged his allegiance to the Qing government and in return, received enough gold and silver to build 13 new monasteries of the Yellow sect in Tibet. All successive reincarnations of the Dalai Lama have been confirmed by the central government in China, and this has become a historical convention practiced to this very day.

A later Qing emperor suspected the intentions of the seventh Dalai Lama, so he increased the power of the Panchen Lama (also of the Yellow sect). In 1713 the Qing court granted the title "Panchen Erdeni" to the fifth Panchen Lama, thus elevating him to a status similar to that given to the Dalai Lama (Panchen means "great scholar" in Sanskrit, and Erdeni means "treasure" in Manchu.)

The largest part of the Tibetan population (more than 90 percent) at that time was composed of serfs, who were treated harshly by the landlords and ruling monks. All monasteries had large tracts of land as well as a great number of serfs under their control. The ruling monks' exploitation of these serfs was just as severe as that of the aristocratic landlords.

Serfs had no personal freedom from birth to death. They and their children were given freely as gifts or donations, sold or bartered for goods. They were, in fact, viewed by landlords as "livestock that can speak." As late as 1943, a high-ranking aristocrat named Tsemon Norbu Wangyal sold 100 serfs to a monk in the Drigung area for only four silver dollars per serf.

If serfs lost their ability to work, the lord confiscated all their property, including livestock and farm tools. If they ran away and subsequently were captured, half their personal belongings were given to the captors while the other half went to the lords for whom they worked. The runaways then were flogged or even condemned to death.

The lords used such inhuman tortures as gouging out eyes, cutting off feet or hands, pushing the condemned person over a cliff, drowning and beheading.Numerous rebellions occurred over the years against this harsh treatment, and in 1347 alone (the seventh year of Yuan Emperor Shundi's reign), more than 200 serf rebellions occurred in Tibet.

Foreign Aggression
Foreign nations made numerous attempts to invade Tibet and take it away from China. These were repulsed by Chinese troops and Tibetan fighters. The first such invasion took place in 1337 when Mohammed Tugluk of Delhi (in what is now India) sent 100,000 troops into the Himalayan area.

During the second half of the 18th century, troops from the Kingdom of Nepal invaded Tibet twice in an attempt to expand Nepal's territory.

During the 19th century, Britain competed with Russia in pouring large sums of money and many spies into a struggle to see which of the two might eventually occupy and control Tibet. When the British finally invaded Tibet, first in 1888 and again in 1903, the Russians were so involved in conflicts at home that they couldn't stop the British troops from pushing all the way to Lhasa. And the Qing government, having recently lost the Opium War to the British, did nothing either.

The Tibetans, using spears, arrows, catapults and homemade guns, fought valiantly but to no avail against the invading British army and its big cannons and machine guns. The British withdrew after imposing "peace" terms and before the harsh winter began because they feared the Tibetan resistance would prevent supplies from getting through to the occupying troops, thereby causing them to starve to death.

The British signed a Convention with China in 1906, the second article of which stipulated that the British would no longer interfere with the administration of Tibet and that China had sovereignty over Tibet. But, they conveniently forgot the terms of this agreement when, the very next year, they signed a Convention with Russia that specified British "special interests" in Tibet. It would probably fill a book to detail the many ways the British from that point on tried to take over Tibet and make it a part of their colony of India.

Yet, something needs to be said about the conference held at Simla, India, in 1914. Conference participants included representatives of the new Nationalist government of China that had overthrown the Qing Dynasty just two years before, plus Tibetans, and British-Indians. The British had blackmailed the Chinese into attending by threatening to withdraw their recognition of the new nationalist government and by saying they would work out an agreement with the Tibetans alone if the Chinese didn't participate.

The Simla Conference failed because the Chinese and the 13th Dalai Lama both opposed the British plan to divide Tibet into two parts (Inner and Outer Tibet). The conference, however, did produce one document that since has caused dissension -- a map drawn by the British representative Arthur H. McMahon that never was shown to the Chinese, although it was revealed secretly to the Tibetan delegates.

McMahon's map showed a new boundary line that included three districts of Tibet -- Monyul, Loyul, and Lower Zayul -- within the territory of British- India. This so-called "McMahon Line" first became public 23 years later when it appeared in a printed set of British documents related to the conference and other diplomatic matters. The McMahon Line became the basis for India's failed attempt to take over this part of Tibet in 1962. The British, who made a great show of their desire to have "independence for Tibet" at the Simla Conference, in drawing this map were adding 90,000 square kilometers (an area three times the size of Belgium) from Tibet's natural territory to their own Indian colony.

During and after World War II and shortly before Britain's departure from India, the American Office of Strategic Services (O.S.S., the forerunner of the C.I.A.), operating under Cold War guidelines, joined the British Foreign Office as the instigator of the Tibetan "freedom movement."

Much of what the O.S.S. did in Tibet remains hidden in secret files at C.I.A headquarters near Washington, D.C., but one of their plots has been widely reported. It involved a smear campaign launched against the regent who had been appointed to act for the young 14th Dalai Lama after the 13th Dalai died in 1933. The regent was hostile to U.S.-British intrigues in Tibet, so the O.S.S. spread rumors about his alleged incompetence and criminal activities. Eventually these charges led to the regent's arrest and murder in a Tibetan prison. The 14th Dalai Lama's father subsequently was poisoned because he was a friend and supporter of the regent.

Tibetan Buddhism
Before considering Tibet today, some words should be said about Tibetan Buddhism as a religion. The accommodations it made with Bon resulted in its becoming very different from other forms of Buddhism, particularly from the more common and much larger Chan Buddhism of China (called Zen in Japan). Images found in Tibetan Buddhist temples are much fiercer than those found in other Buddhist temples, and some Tibetan ceremonies that once used human skulls, human skin, and fresh human intestines clearly reflect the animistic elements of Bon.

Also, Tibetan Buddhists rely a great deal on prayer wheels, which most other Buddhists scorn. These are mechanical devices with prayers written on them that are constantly turned by water or wind so the forces of nature do the work of sending prayers to heaven.

The reincarnation of Living Buddhas, which is unique to this form of Buddhism, began as early as 1294 with the Karma Kagyu sect, a sub-sect of the Kagyu sect (known as the black hats). It then spread to all of Tibetan Buddhism's other sects and monasteries, but it didn't reach the Gelugpa sect (the one that includes the Dalai and Panchen Lama lines) until after 1419.

From the beginning, the system of selecting Living Buddhas was open to abuse because it was easy for clever members of the monk selection committee to manipulate the objects presented to potential child candidates in order to make sure a particular child was chosen. In the case of the fourth Dalai Lama, the child selected was the great-grandson of the Mongolian chief Altan Khan. He was chosen at a time when the Gelugpa sect badly needed the protection of the Altan Khan's followers because the Gelugpa were being persecuted by the older Tibetan sects, who were jealous of the Yellow sect's rapid growth.

Tibet Since 1949
In 1949, the Chinese Communists won the revolution and overthrew the Nationalist government. But they didn't send their army into Tibet until October 1951, after they and Tibetan representatives of the 14th Dalai Lama and 10th Panchen Lama had signed an agreement to liberate Tibet peacefully. The Dalai Lama expressed his support for this 17-point agreement in a telegraphed message to Chairman Mao on October 24, 1951. Three years later the Dalai and Panchen Lamas went together to Beijing to attend the first National People's Congress at which the Dalai Lama was elected vice-chairman of the Standing Committee and the Panchen Lama was elected a member of that committee. After the People's Liberation Army (PLA) entered Tibet, they took steps to protect the rights of the serfs but didn't, at first, try to reorganize Tibetan society along socialist or democratic lines. Yet, the landlords and ruling monks knew that in time, their land would be redistributed, just as the landlords' property in the rest of China had been confiscated and divided among the peasants.

The Tibetan landlords did all they could to frighten the serfs away from associating with the PLA. But, as the serfs increasingly ignored their landlords' wishes and called on the Communists to eliminate the oppressive system of serfdom, some leaders of the "three great monasteries" (Ganden, Sera, and Drepung) issued a statement, in the latter half of 1956, demanding the feudal system be maintained. At this point, the PLA decided the time had come to confiscate the landlords' property and redistribute it among the serfs. The landlords and top-level monks retaliated by announcing, in March 1959, the founding of a "Tibet Independent State," and about 7,000 of them assembled in Lhasa to stage a revolt. Included were more than 170 "Khampa guerrillas" who had been trained overseas by the O.S.S. and air-dropped into Tibet, according to a former C.I.A. agent. The O.S.S. also gave them machine guns, mortars, rifles and ammunition.

The PLA put down the revolt in Lhasa within two days, capturing some 4,000 rebels. The rebellion had the support of the Dalai Lama, but not of the Panchen Lama. After it failed, the Dalai Lama, along with a group of rebel leaders, fled to India.

The most disruptive event of recent years was the "cultural revolution," which lasted from 1966 to 1976. It turned most of Tibet's farm and herding areas into giant communes and closed or destroyed many monasteries and temples, just as it did elsewhere in China. At its end, the communes were disbanded and the temples and monasteries were repaired and reopened at government expense.

The idea that most Tibetans are unhappy about what has happened in Tibet and want independence from China is a product manufactured in the West and promoted by the dispossessed landlords who fled to India. Indeed, to believe it is true stretches logic to its breaking point. Who really can believe that a million former serfs - more than 90% of the population - are unhappy about having the shackles of serfdom removed? They now care for their own herds and farmland, marry whomever they wish without first getting their landlord's permission, aren't punished for disrespecting these same landlords, own their own homes, attend school, and have relatively modern hospitals, paved roads, airports and modern industries.

An objective measure of this progress is found in the population statistics. The Tibetan population has doubled since 1950, and the average Tibetan's life span has risen from 36 years at that time to 65 years at present.

Of course some Tibetans are unhappy with their lot, but a little investigation soon shows that they are, for the most part, people from families who lost their landlord privileges. There is plenty of evidence that the former serfs tell a quite different story.

You will find some Tibetans who hate the Hans (the majority nationality of China) and some Hans who hate the Tibetans, a matter of ordinary ethnic prejudice ­ something any American should be able to understand. But, this doesn't represent a desire for an independent Tibet any more than black- white hostilities in Washington, D.C., Detroit, or Boston represent a desire on the part of most African-Americans to form a separate nation.

Tibetan Culture Today
The final part of the Tibetan myth has to do with Tibetan culture, which the Dalai Lama's supporters say has been crushed by "the Chinese takeover of Tibet." Culture is an area that requires great care because it is fraught with biases and self-fulfilling judgments. The growth of television in America, for example, is cited as killing American culture by some and as enhancing it by others.

Regarding the field of literature, prior to 1950 Tibetans could point with pride to only a few fine epics that had been passed down through the centuries. Now that serfs can become authors, many new writers are producing works of great quality; persons such as the poet Yedam Tsering and the fiction writers Jampel Gyatso, Tashi Dawa, and Dondru Wangbum.

As for art, Tibet for centuries had produced nothing but repetitious religious designs for temples. Now there are many fine artists, such as Bama Tashi, who has been hailed in both France and Canada as a great modern artist who combines Tibetan religious themes with modern pastoral images.

Tibet now has more than 30 professional song and dance ensembles, Tibetan opera groups, and other theatrical troupes where none existed before 1950.

No, Tibetan culture is not dead; it is flourishing as never before.



Foster Stockwell is an American writer who grew up as the son of missionaries in southwestern China (Chengdu) near Tibet, and has visited China many times in recent years. His several books include Religion in China Today (New World Press) and Mount Huashan (Foreign Languages Press)

This post has been edited by joe_mamak: Apr 10 2008, 11:43 PM
Avex
post Apr 10 2008, 11:55 PM

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so conclusion, we are family. family members quarrel, the one who is not happy is about not getting enough of the fortune. end of story
joe_mamak
post Apr 10 2008, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(Avex @ Apr 10 2008, 11:55 PM)
so conclusion, we are family. family members quarrel, the one who is not happy is about not getting enough of the fortune. end of story
*
More like the one who is not happy is the one getting bullied.
Avex
post Apr 11 2008, 12:08 AM

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so who bully who again in the article?
joe_mamak
post Apr 13 2008, 07:08 PM

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QUOTE(Avex @ Apr 11 2008, 12:08 AM)
so who bully who again in the article?
*
Not so much about the article. You need to look at what has been happening in Tibet for the past 5 decades.

Who bully who?


joe_mamak
post Apr 13 2008, 07:10 PM

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China media slam Dalai Lama as "anti human rights"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080413/pl_nm/china_tibet_dc

Excerpts -

"It is indeed the anti-human rights nature of the Dalai clique that impels the "pro-Tibet independence" separatists to undermine China's stability and unity, disgrace China worldwide, and even sabotage the Olympic torch relay by all sorts of violent means," the English-language commentary said.

"Pelosi would remain the least popular person for China if she stiff-neckedly clings to her double standards and an anti-China stance," the commentary said.

"The Chinese are fully justified to call her 'a protector of mobsters, arsonists and murderers'. Why doesn't she give a thought to Iraq?" it added, an apparent reference to U.S. policy in Iraq, of which Pelosi has in fact been a strong critic.

I am reminded of TASS. biggrin.gif
joe_mamak
post Apr 18 2008, 01:31 AM

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This is a good piece on Tibet and China and why the world should not boycott the Beijing olympics


http://www.newsweek.com/id/131751
SUSTC_Boy
post Apr 18 2008, 01:46 AM

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Aiyah why care lar about Tibet. If you think censorship and government control on almost everything is the way to go then obviously you'll love the China government.

Polaris
post Apr 18 2008, 03:09 AM

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QUOTE(bhypp @ Apr 1 2008, 05:04 PM)
hmmm....there are so many ongoing issues such as :

-issues on Tibet  (genocide, oppression, forced-chinese influx into Tibetian territories, cultural destruction, & etc.)

-rising tensions amongst the Chinese and the minority ethnics,

-very poor track record on human rights and freedom of the press,

-demolition of homes causing locals to live off the streets just to make way for the game

With these issues, there are rising support for a global boycott on the games to send a message to the chinese govt.
Just like the boycott of the 1980 Moscow Olympics.....sending a strong message to the Russians after their invasion of Afghanistan.

juz wanna know what u guys think of it....
*
Hate the China gov, but watch the games.. the correct way is to blacklist the corporate sponsors of this year's Olympics, as they're the ones giving payola to China's gov.
joe_mamak
post Apr 21 2008, 06:02 PM

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Article in Malaysia Today -

Olympic Protests: What if it were Malaysia instead of Tibet? PDF Print E-mail
Posted by labisman
Monday, 21 April 2008

As our nation's leader warns against Malaysians holding protests against the Beijing Olympics, I feel compelled to ask a pertinent question... What if Thailand had sent its army and tanks into Malaysia and conquered the entire Peninsula?

And then what if Bangkok were to host the 2020 Olympic Games?

Would Malaysians be all smiley and happy-happy about the Olympic Torch relay while our country remained occupied as a 'rightful province of historic Greater Siam'?

Would our neighbours keep officially silent about the gradual replacement of Malaysian multi-culture with Thai customs and norms, just to stay on the good side of the Thai economic giant?

Would our mainstream media newspapers only print letters that bash the West for daring to criticize and politicize the Thailand Games?

Heck, what if instead of China Olympics and Tibetan protestors, they were having Israel Olympics and Palestinian protestors? Do you think that the same people calling for the Olympic Games not to be politicized would keep singing the same tune? Do you think that our politicians would call for public restraint, or public protests?

(If you want a hint, just look at the recent hoo-hah over two Israeli members in an English football team who came close to being denied entry to our tolerant nation.)

In my honest opinion, it is totally one's pregorative to protest whatever you want or to condemn whatever protest is being held.

Just don't act as if you yourelf are completely just, righteous and fair-minded. Be honest and admit your highly political biases.

I looked at my nation in the mirror, and saw only hypocrisy.

Source
http://www.malaysia-today.net/2008/content/view/6403/1/
Check out the reader comments as well. Here is one -

written by oster, April 21, 2008 | 13:24:40
Common anti-Tibet arguments:

a) This issue is being used by the West.

-So? It doesn't change the fact that Tibetans cannot vote for their future. If the Malaysian government did the same thing to you, you would complain.

-Also, regardless of this, it still does not change the fact that Tibetans cannot vote their future.

b) Tibet belongs to China

-That is a decision to be made by Tibetans, not you, not China, not the US, not the UN, not anybody else

c) China made Tibet prosperous

-This is analogous to the "mission to civilize" line of thought Western imperialists took, that Asians wouldn't rise unless they came and helped them along. In effect, people who say this are saying that Tibet wouldn't have made it anywhere unless the Chinese came in. Isn't that comparing China to Western imperialists of old?

-Also, regardless of this, it still does not change the fact that Tibetans cannot vote their future.

d) Should Sabah and Sarawak then ask for independence?

-The comparison is moot, since inevitably it is up to Sabahans and Sarawakians themselves who should decide. This argument is trying to say that if Tibet is given independence, so should Sabah and Sarawak.

Why? Let Tibetans decide on Tibet, and Sabahans and Sarawakians decide on Sabah and Sarawak.

e) Why don't you go fight another human rights' abuse that is worse elsewhere like Iraq?

-Well there are too many human rights abuses going on for every individual to concentrate on all of it, right? Just because someone chooses to focus on Tibet doesn't mean he/she does not care about other human rights abuses, no?

-Also, regardless of this, it still does not change the fact that Tibetans cannot vote their future.

f) The Western media is biased against China

-Well first of all, define the empirical method in which you have come to this conclusion. What sample size did you sue, and which media outlets did you examine? Does your sample contain enough sources so as to be representative of the entire media spectrum?

-Also, regardless of whether the Western media is biased or not, it still does not change the fact that Tibetans cannot vote their future.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

What makes me passionate about this issue is seeing how many people would forgive and condone some of the stuff the CCP does when they would condemn it if BN did the same.

Saying that the Chinese should decide what is best for Tibet is like saying UMNO Malays should decide what is best for the Malaysian Chinese.

Also, the constant accusations of a "Western Conspiracy" to distract from the the fact that Tibet cannot vote for their future is all too similar to Mahathir's constant raving about a "Western Conspiracy" to distract from all the troubles of '98.

At the end of the day, it's not the West or China that is the central issue here, but the fact that Tibetans cannot vote their future.

And no, I'm not a CIA agent, as some have preferred to think in other blogs.

cheers

This post has been edited by joe_mamak: Apr 21 2008, 06:04 PM
Boomeraangkid
post Apr 21 2008, 06:08 PM

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dalai lama works for Central Intelligence Agency biggrin.gif
joe_mamak
post Apr 21 2008, 06:10 PM

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QUOTE(Boomeraangkid @ Apr 21 2008, 06:08 PM)
dalai lama works for Central Intelligence Agency biggrin.gif
*
Yeah and I am a mamak.
defaultname365
post Apr 21 2008, 06:26 PM

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So hilarious, CNN reported that the problem with the torch relay in Malaysia is not the protestors or the lack of it, but

"Malaysians don't know that the torch is here !!!"

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...orch/index.html


Chinese students cheer Malaysian torch relay
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (CNN) -- Hundreds of Chinese students gathered at Independence Square to cheer for the Olympic flame as it began its four-hour relay through Kuala Lumpur on Monday.

Malaysia Olympic Council President Imran Jaafar kicks off the Malaysian leg of the torch relay.

Heavy security was in place to protect the 80 runners carrying the Olympic torch along a 10-mile (16 km) route through the Malaysian capital, ending at the Petronas Twin Towers.

Witnesses said the Chinese students overwhelmed a woman wearing a "Free Tibet" shirt and holding a pro-Tibet sign, hitting her with small Chinese flags before she was carried away unhurt by a photographer.

"As soon as spectators saw what she was doing, they immediately mobbed her, hitting her with flags," said Brad Kesler, an American tourist who was there to watch the start of the relay.

Kesler said the woman was holding the sign and not yelling.

About 500 Chinese students, who are studying in Malaysia, were organized by the Chinese Embassy there, according to an Olympics organizer. Several of the students told CNN that the Chinese government provided their transportation to the event.

They all wore identical shirts with the slogan "One Dream, One Nation," and many of them had Chinese flags painted on their faces, according to witnesses.

At least two other people carrying pro-Tibet signs were carried away by police. It was not clear if they were detained because of a disruption or if they were removed for their own safety.

About 1,500 people attended the relay's start in Independence Square, according to witness estimates. Few of them appeared to be local residents. Watch the torch arrive in Malaysia »

Malaysian actress Marina Mahathir, one of the 80 torchbearers, said she was "very excited and very proud to be carrying the torch." She said she did not expect any of the violence that disrupted the relay in several other cities.

Earlier torch relay stops in London, England; Paris, France; and San Francisco, California attracted tens of thousands of demonstrators. Some protesters in those cities tried to disrupt the relay, and police made dozens of arrests.





So is this a question of "NOT KNOWING what is going on?" blush.gif

Boomeraangkid
post Apr 21 2008, 06:34 PM

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watch the tibet video in youtube....i think without china tibet is NOT in History Books
allinuff
post Apr 21 2008, 06:34 PM

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No reason to boycott the games. It's about the athletes not politics. I'm sure it takes a lifetime of dedication and hardwork from the athletes to reach that pinnacle. That is reason alone not to sabotage the OG.
joe_mamak
post Apr 21 2008, 06:37 PM

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QUOTE(Boomeraangkid @ Apr 21 2008, 06:34 PM)
watch the tibet video in youtube....i think without china tibet is NOT in History Books
*
Would you rather be free or be in the history books?

This is not a trick question.
maximus85
post Apr 21 2008, 10:02 PM

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may i know how does it concern u? in any way?
oucheev
post Apr 21 2008, 10:51 PM

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QUOTE(defaultname365 @ Apr 21 2008, 06:26 PM)
So hilarious, CNN reported that the problem with the torch relay in Malaysia is not the protestors or the lack of it, but

"Malaysians don't know that the torch is here !!!"

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...orch/index.html
Chinese students cheer Malaysian torch relay
KUALA LUMPUR, Malaysia (CNN) -- Hundreds of Chinese students gathered at Independence Square to cheer for the Olympic flame as it began its four-hour relay through Kuala Lumpur on Monday.

Malaysia Olympic Council President Imran Jaafar kicks off the Malaysian leg of the torch relay.

Heavy security was in place to protect the 80 runners carrying the Olympic torch along a 10-mile (16 km) route through the Malaysian capital, ending at the Petronas Twin Towers.

Witnesses said the Chinese students overwhelmed a woman wearing a "Free Tibet" shirt and holding a pro-Tibet sign, hitting her with small Chinese flags before she was carried away unhurt by a photographer.

"As soon as spectators saw what she was doing, they immediately mobbed her, hitting her with flags," said Brad Kesler, an American tourist who was there to watch the start of the relay.

Kesler said the woman was holding the sign and not yelling.

About 500 Chinese students, who are studying in Malaysia, were organized by the Chinese Embassy there, according to an Olympics organizer. Several of the students told CNN that the Chinese government provided their transportation to the event.

They all wore identical shirts with the slogan "One Dream, One Nation," and many of them had Chinese flags painted on their faces, according to witnesses.

At least two other people carrying pro-Tibet signs were carried away by police. It was not clear if they were detained because of a disruption or if they were removed for their own safety.

About 1,500 people attended the relay's start in Independence Square, according to witness estimates. Few of them appeared to be local residents.  Watch the torch arrive in Malaysia »

Malaysian actress Marina Mahathir, one of the 80 torchbearers, said she was "very excited and very proud to be carrying the torch." She said she did not expect any of the violence that disrupted the relay in several other cities.

Earlier torch relay stops in London, England; Paris, France; and San Francisco, California attracted tens of thousands of demonstrators. Some protesters in those cities tried to disrupt the relay, and police made dozens of arrests.
So is this a question of "NOT KNOWING what is going on?"  blush.gif
*
Something's wrong with the articles. Since when Marina Mahathir is an actress.

Ok back to the run, I saw the run at Jalan P. Ramlee. It passes through my office. Most of the wearing red and blue is I am not mistaken are students from Chinese schools and not students from China. Maybe some are but most of them are too young. And they were sponsors by Lenovo, Samsung and Ambank. So those who wore blue were sponsored by Samsung and those who wore red is sponsored by Ambank.

joe_mamak
post Apr 21 2008, 11:23 PM

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QUOTE(maximus85 @ Apr 21 2008, 10:02 PM)
may i know how does it concern u? in any way?
*
It doesn't directly affect me.

But when something is so wrong, how can I keep quiet?


Added on April 22, 2008, 1:01 amChinese opinions
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/7340987.stm

All the same.

This post has been edited by joe_mamak: Apr 22 2008, 01:01 AM
TSbhypp
post Apr 25 2008, 11:00 PM

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QUOTE(allinuff @ Apr 21 2008, 06:34 PM)
No reason to boycott the games. It's about the athletes not politics. I'm sure it takes a lifetime of dedication and hardwork from the athletes to reach that pinnacle. That is reason alone not to sabotage the OG.
*
well if u read my prev posts....u shud know by now its not coz of politics....godammit....

QUOTE(maximus85 @ Apr 21 2008, 10:02 PM)
may i know how does it concern u? in any way?
*
ahhh ur a fine example of the disease called msian ignorance sydrome....thats why theres no msian citizens on the streets during the relay.....we dont get many chances for the relay to be run thru our street....due to this endemic diesease, not many msians went to watch the event....let alone to support Tibet......if its none of msia's business.....why were msia troops sent to Congo and somalia?? none of our frikken business too.... shakehead.gif shakehead.gif shakehead.gif

QUOTE(oucheev @ Apr 21 2008, 10:51 PM)
Something's wrong with the articles. Since when Marina Mahathir is an actress.

Ok back to the run, I saw the run at Jalan P. Ramlee. It passes through my office. Most of the wearing red and blue is I am not mistaken are students from Chinese schools and not students from China. Maybe some are but most of them are too young. And they were sponsors by Lenovo, Samsung and Ambank. So those who wore blue were sponsored by Samsung and those who wore red is sponsored by Ambank.
*
u sure?! shit...its a big disaster for msia if theres msians goin for China....how can ppl even condone the act of killing and oppression??? If im marina...i will put out the fire of the torch...with my daddy as a ex-big shot / current big mouth that can slander and still not be caught by the crippled hand of msian justice...i will hav no fear of getting caught or anything like that.....


SAY NO TO BEIJING 08....cheers
sujend
post Apr 26 2008, 02:18 AM

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China must free Tibet.
Respectlar..its their homeland,let them stay in their country peacefully keep the chinese in china!!
Tibet for Tibetans...Human rights comes first b4 asian,europeans or american ideology!!
after all, we are all human beings! Mutual respectlaaaaa

This post has been edited by sujend: Apr 26 2008, 02:20 AM
joe_mamak
post Apr 26 2008, 12:29 PM

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China's communist government has little respect for human rights.

If the Malaysia government treats her citizens like how China treats their citizens, we will be protesting on the streets.

Yet there are many Chinese communist government buttlickers in here. biggrin.gif


joe_mamak
post Apr 26 2008, 12:37 PM

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Some positive news.

China to meet Dalai Lama envoy.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...lama/index.html
SUSTC_Boy
post Apr 26 2008, 01:10 PM

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QUOTE(joe_mamak @ Apr 26 2008, 12:37 PM)
Some positive news. 

China to meet Dalai Lama envoy. 
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/...lama/index.html
*
Chinese Official: What brings you here?
Envoy: Earth & Water.
Chinese Official: ???
TSbhypp
post Apr 26 2008, 06:59 PM

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yea finally after so much pressure from so many parties....finally china has been forced into submission!!! rclxm9.gif

and whu says boycotting wont help??? with a few street protests and some fire extinguishing acts....china now has succumbed to the pressure....

hail all parties whu has supported the cause!!! even tho the issue is far from over.....but now at least theres some silver linings.......good work fella's....
joe_mamak
post Apr 30 2008, 02:25 AM

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The need for unanimity in China exacts a hidden price
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/04/24/asi...tter.php?page=1

Excerpt -

In the United States this was brought home most powerfully by an incident that took place recently on the campus of Duke University, where a freshman from China, Grace Wang, was berated by Chinese students when she tried to mediate between pro-Tibetan demonstrators and a much larger group of pro-Chinese demonstrators during protests on campus. At one point a group of Chinese students surrounded her, taunting: "Remember Chai Ling? All Chinese want to burn her in oil, and you look like her," according to an account Wang wrote in The Washington Post. The reference was to a female leader in the student democracy protests in Beijing in 1989 that led to the Tiananmen massacre. Details of Wang's background were quickly revealed on the Duke Chinese Students and Scholars Association Web site, including directions to her parents' home in Qingdao. Feces quickly turned up on their doorstep, as the threats against them came pouring in, and Wang's parents eventually went into hiding. Even her high school back home convened a special assembly to condemn her for supposedly breaking with the motherland, and her diploma was revoked.
SUSTC_Boy
post Apr 30 2008, 04:29 PM

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I think it's time to boycott the people of China too. Screw them. They don't deserved to be saved if they are so eager to be enslaved by their own government.
joe_mamak
post Apr 30 2008, 05:43 PM

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This thread pop up here. doh.gif

Not really a Q&A...IMO.

It's an opinion poll.
kean89
post May 1 2008, 08:01 PM

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I think we should just boycott Tibet.
joe_mamak
post May 2 2008, 12:53 AM

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QUOTE(kean89 @ May 1 2008, 08:01 PM)
I think we should just boycott Tibet.
*
If only China boycotted Tibet. laugh.gif
xcrave
post May 2 2008, 01:06 AM

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OMG ive just been reading all this all this while surprised to see this thread appear in LYN... Anyways Guys i fully support this Boycott on them...

There even an incident where they really beat the crap out of those people who unwilling to move out for the construction of the Olympic Stadium...


A quote from one of the really disturbing incident


IOC president Jacques Rogge told reporters in Beijing: "I was very saddened by what happened because this was a beautiful symbol and this symbol was attacked."

He was speaking about the Olympic Torch, of course, and not Tibet—which should give the world some inkling of what kind of an ******* this guy is. Free Tibet!

LINK TO THIS PAGE


SUSTC_Boy
post May 2 2008, 01:12 AM

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I'm more interested in freeing China. Communism is not a good thing as it is a top-down government. Sadly, our democracy is also top-down.

You may argue that companies are also top-down. However who gets the most profit in a top-down organisation, the people at the top-lar.

This post has been edited by TC_Boy: May 2 2008, 01:16 AM
miloy2k
post May 2 2008, 02:48 PM

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QUOTE(kean89 @ May 1 2008, 08:01 PM)
I think we should just boycott Tibet.
*
Not china meh?
Polaris
post May 3 2008, 07:12 PM

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Dalam Lama?

user posted image

Dari http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/info.asp?y...ni&pg=bt_13.htm

 

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