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 Darklight's 12 day rotation, Based on request by pm's

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TSdarklight79
post Jun 30 2008, 02:41 AM

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QUOTE(iDk @ Jun 30 2008, 01:27 AM)
oh... good to you, atleast they put some extra padding there. As last time i lift, there have nothing, and i have to be extreme careful when lower down the weight just to avoid the owner come to mumbling on my face right in front of everyone  sweat.gif
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Depends. The new owner is the son now. The old guy was his father, now that fella was an a$$hole. His son is a bit more mellow.
TSdarklight79
post Jun 30 2008, 07:51 PM

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QUOTE(gtoforce @ Jun 30 2008, 07:37 PM)
darklight
as milos sarcev said, if u failed on free weights there's always the machine cuz machine is basics and failing on machine would mean one is not ready for free weights

what do u think?
im struggling with my balance for incline barbell bench press (left hand or right hand overpowered each other that sometimes they go senget)...
i thought its the poundages
so i reduced from 50lbs per side to 20lbs per side...still tak balance
my gym mates suggested the smith or DB
what do u think?
i like BB cuz it gives more stress at the upper chest but someone gotta put one or two fingers at the middle BB so i wont go senget
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Hence there's a reason why there're so many variations of exercises to work the upper chest. If the incline barbell press doesn't work for you, then don't do it. There's still the Smith or dumbells or even machines. Don't limit yourself to one particular variation of an exercise. There are no absolutes in bodybuilding.
TSdarklight79
post Jul 1 2008, 12:59 PM

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QUOTE(Sp00kY @ Jul 1 2008, 12:28 AM)
I had the same problem when i first hit the barbell section, it is much better when you have a spotter to help you balance it.

Later stage, i hit the smith machine where i start to get the feeling of using the barbell. This means that i know which muscle to use to incline, bench etc. I started off with lighter weight to grab the feel. Once i`m confortable with that feel, i add the weights.

what darklight say is very true, u can always hit other machines. I am using dumbell now, i think it is harder than the barbell. alternatively, i will use the machine sometimes. Now, i prefer cable machines, it gives a good feel on the entire chest.

@Darklight,
Sorry to hijack your thread tongue.gif . By the way, I always do isolation exercise at the very end. Is it correct/okay? I usually start with compound exercise first which are the incline (want to pump upper), bench, decline, then cable at the end for isolation (incline, middle).

Btw, this may sound stupid. I am into bulking to super huge, I prefer ripped with a bit of mass. I am just wondering am i eating enough and training enough. Would really appreciate your feedback

I saw that you've been to fitness first curve, are u still going there? Besides, you mentioned those machines are in KG? I didn't know it, i just do saja haha. No wonder the 80 (plates) is heavy enuf to lift me up when i dont pull it smile.gif.
Thanks
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Yes, isolation exercises are done at the end of compound movements as finishers. I don't believe in the pre-exhaust principle of doing iso first then compounds though some peopel seem to swear by it.

I don't get your statement, you prefer bulking into super huge or you don't? Your posted sounded contradictory. It said you're into bulking super huge then you said you prefer ripped with a bit of mass.

QUOTE(gtoforce @ Jul 1 2008, 12:42 AM)
thanx
been at the smith and DB now for quite some time
thanx for the advice
now im focusing on ur other advice as well that is to hit each targeted muscle for at least 20 sets


Added on July 1, 2008, 1:03 amoh and darklight, i've been going to the gym but lost sight of my splits

i've been doing shoulders / biceps splits all these while
is it right?
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20 sets may be a bit too much for you. Even i need to reduce my volume once in a while. You might overtrain.

Biceps and shoulders together are fine.
TSdarklight79
post Jul 1 2008, 01:38 PM

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QUOTE(Sp00kY @ Jul 1 2008, 01:34 PM)
Ooops sorry, I am not into super huge. Typo error sir hahaha..perhaps i was too tired last night. I posted that when i was working. nod.gif  shakehead.gif I dont wan super huge and i prefer ripped and of course with a bit of mass
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Heh... you think it's easy to get super huge? I give you 2-3 years and you won't even reach the standard of a male Fitness magazine model yet unless you are really dedicated. Not to sound condescending and disparaging but it's the truth. It's not easy to build solid muscle. In order to get ripped, you need mass. In order to sculpt something, you need a lot of rock. So how is an individual going to get super ripped if he has no mass in the first place right? Something to think about. So focus on getting as much mass as possible first.
TSdarklight79
post Jul 1 2008, 01:47 PM

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QUOTE(Sp00kY @ Jul 1 2008, 01:43 PM)
agree and i understand what you are trying to say, maybe i shud observe my training + diet and change accordingly, currently i am hoping to add in a bit more size than my current only. ty
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Trust me. Try bulking as much as possible but also try keeping it as clean as you can. Obviously we all can't avoid having cheat meals, this is Malaysia. =) Try to avoid missing meals. General rule is try to eat every 3-3.5 hours. Try not to go without food longer than 5 hours unless it's bedtime.
TSdarklight79
post Jul 1 2008, 05:03 PM

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QUOTE(Sp00kY @ Jul 1 2008, 02:33 PM)
I am still uncertain on the diet thingy. well, perhaps i have a phobia of putting on too much weight, i was once 90kg+ haha.

Eat every 3 to 3.5 hours with high protein meals right? well, as mentioned my concern is still the carbs. Should the calories come from carbs/protein. hmmm.....ok, when u mean bulk clean means taking more carbs but preferably lo GI carbs? Yeah, malaysia has a lot of nice food and it's the unhealthy type drool.gif  drool.gif  drool.gif
Besides, what are the different training for bulk and cut? Bulk = heavy but less rep? and cut = light but more reps?
TY for the advise for a noob rclxms.gif
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There is no such thing as high reps for cutting and low weights for bulk. It's crap. It depends on how the individual responds to training.
TSdarklight79
post Jul 1 2008, 08:10 PM

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QUOTE(gtoforce @ Jul 1 2008, 07:21 PM)
yo darklight, since im really into basics nutrition for having clean mass, i have some questions...did some research tapi am not satisfied

1) is creatine really a requirement for workouts? just wanna know if it really helps and usually what do u take it with? sirap? glucoline? tangs?

2) my friend nak beli whey cuz his is finishing. he's bored with ON 100% Gold Standard but thats he's been using all these while and since he asked, i just told him the basics. whey, fish oil, creatine, good diet and hardcore workout. since u are the pro, what other brand could u suggest? i gave him a list including, Nitrotech Hardcore, Syntha 6, Champion Nutrition and GNC. any ideas?
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1) Creatine works. I've stopped using it but it works. Terry also recommends it. I take it with Glucolin.

2) Tell your friend to get the new Lollipop flavoured whey by Charlie's Chocolate Factory. Cos i take whey for its function, not for the brand and flavour, so i don't know.
TSdarklight79
post Aug 21 2008, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(jamis @ Jul 8 2008, 10:05 AM)
darklight i have some question regarding the workout article that i have read.

what do u think about this workout :

For strength and hypertrophy

each excercise consist of 24- 36 reps with 80%-90% of 1 RM (1 Rep max)

thats mean, we can spread into 5-6 sets, and each consist of 4-6 reps.

so as for starting, we can start on 24 reps for that particular excercise with the weight of 80% and increase the reps each week and once we can do a 36 reps then we increase on weight to 82% and drop the reps back to 24 and it will goes on for months.

My current workout is still following the OT that is posted in the sticky. and i have been training that for 7weeks, so nex week would be my deloading phase and starting from the week after i plan to get something new to shock my muscle. And the above training i would like to do it as a 5 days split. What do u think?

By the way my goal is basically mass building and make my exercise intensive enough to burn of some fat as well (reduce rest time to 40 -70sec).
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24-36 reps is way overkill imo. And no way you can do 80-90% of your 1RM max with those number of reps. Stick to good old fashioned 10-12 reps, 4-5 sets per exercise, 3-4 exercises per bodypart.

QUOTE(Sp00kY @ Aug 15 2008, 12:22 PM)
wow 24 reps!!! isnt it super tough?
Btw, I still havent find out my 1RM yet...hmmm
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You don't have to. Go by instinctive training.

QUOTE(Sp00kY @ Aug 21 2008, 11:59 AM)
Dark, can u give some insight on strength and mass training? I am currently working on ~20 sets per muscle group per time..(HVT)
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I do HVT, and I don't max out for 1RM's except for deadlifting but I can match powerlifters in my gym, and my gym isn't filled with weaklings either. HVT can make you very strong, just that it's not that obvious from the high rep poundages we use.

To those who have been following my journal, I apologize for the absence. Taken a 4 week break, and busy with other commitments but will resume posting here by next week or maybe sooner. I'll still be around for questions.


Added on August 21, 2008, 12:33 pm
QUOTE(sanesaint @ Aug 17 2008, 03:45 PM)
hey man. just wanted to ask, which 4-day training routine do u think is better? and what other 4-day training routines would u recommend?

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/lobliner28.htm

or

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/workout2.p...ercount=28&s2r=

i'm not trying to get too big like all the pro bbuilders out there, my aim rite now is to gain muscle mass and also strength gains. Figured i would go for mass first before progressing to strength training. what do u think?
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First link looks very good. Second link doesn't work. I'm a firm advocate of high rep, high poudage training (high poundage being relative here). Go for it. You can get very strong with high rep trainign even though you are not maxing out with low reps.

This post has been edited by darklight79: Aug 21 2008, 12:33 PM
TSdarklight79
post Aug 21 2008, 01:22 PM

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QUOTE(sanesaint @ Aug 21 2008, 01:08 PM)
is it possible to get strong and not only big by doing high poundage/high rep training?
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Of course you can get both big and strong with high poundage/high rep training? Do you think the weights I'm pushing are baby weights? =) Anybody told you the opposite?
TSdarklight79
post Aug 21 2008, 01:31 PM

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QUOTE(jones007 @ Aug 21 2008, 01:29 PM)
when you train for hypertrophy(high reps), strength is your side effect, when you train for strength, hypertrophy is your side effect. when you train for both at the same time, you'll achieve nothing. lol
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Not so mate, I train for both. Hence even with high volume high rep workouts, i am still adding poundages to the bar every week.
TSdarklight79
post Aug 21 2008, 05:35 PM

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QUOTE(Sp00kY @ Aug 21 2008, 01:55 PM)
so i should be continue my training as it is smile.gif. I realized when i stop certain exercise for a few weeks. I can do much heavier after that. That is why I am trying to find more varieties..

most importantly, i like hvt, i like the pain. thanks mate


Added on August 21, 2008, 2:01 pmhey, mind explaining the concept/method for width and thickness oriented training for back?
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No problem. Generally pulling movements on a vertical plane are more for width while horizontal pulling is more for thickness. However, you can accomplish both by varying the grip and the movement.
TSdarklight79
post Aug 22 2008, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(John91 @ Aug 22 2008, 02:03 PM)
Hey darkie, is it a must to do benchpresses? Cuz I find my shoulders hurt after doing a few reps. Not the muscles but the bones there. And they give this clicking sound. Tho I don't face the same problem with dumb bell presses and flyes. So nowadays my chest workouts are only those 2 and pushups.
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No problem. You can do without the bench press. My chest workout consists of:-
Incline db presses
Incline bb presses
Cable crossovers
Gironda neck presses

A lot of bodybuilders don't use the flat bench press, it's more of an ego exercise anyway.
TSdarklight79
post Aug 23 2008, 12:28 PM

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QUOTE(x0angelus0x @ Aug 22 2008, 09:30 PM)
This question has been bothering me for quite some time. I'm a beginner in bodybuilding (I think the term body workout would be more suitable) and my goal is to build up strength and muscle mass and lose some fats simultaneously.

My workout regimen is really simple. Mostly high repetition with lighter weights. However, with this combination, I feel that I'm training for muscle endurance rather for strength. I just read "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe (Managed to finish it under 1 hour time, not so sure why his book is so great, too long-winded while the points are hard to grasp.), he strongly criticized my workout plan, The Pyramid Plan. He said that Pyramid workout doesn't prepare a trainee to move to a greater and heavier weights because all the strength is been used up to overcome previous sets. Although his book sucks, he did make a good point, to my case anyway. On the contrary, endurance also plays an important role in building up lactic acid tolerance at very high repetition spectrum. If I focus of strength training, should I follow Rippetoe Programme?

So, my $500 question, do I change my workout plan to low repetition but heavier weights if I want to increase my strength? Or should I just stick to my previous plan?
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Lol... I'm rather charmed by your impeccable command of English as well as your eloquent and elucidative posts. Anyway....

My US trainer Blake Skola used a rep scheme of 5,5,8,12 per exercise where he would adjust the weight accordingly. Low reps with heavy poundages and high reps with lighter poundages. That way he got the benefits of both hypertrophy and strength.

Answer to your $500 dollar question, if you want a strength foundation, Mark Rippetoe. If you want hypertrophy/size, there are other viable alternatives. But yes, it is one of the better strength training programs out there. But you don't necessarily have to move on to Madcow's 5 x 5 after that.

This Pyramid workout, where did you get that from? Is it your own plan or you're following another fixed program?

This post has been edited by darklight79: Aug 23 2008, 12:30 PM
TSdarklight79
post Aug 23 2008, 03:05 PM

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QUOTE(x0angelus0x @ Aug 23 2008, 02:06 PM)
Woah. I have a feeling Mr.Hulk is better off teaching English literature. My English teacher once said that "If a paragraph has more than one sentence that seem to be too garrulous, loquacious and voluble, Yes, I know 99% of students in this class presume I'm speaking an estranged language but this is English nevertheless, you're trying too hard to impress me and failing miserably at the same time. If you want me to stop speaking in this manner, please never again write a verbose essay and hand it up to me. I'll not mark you over elusive work because I have set my priority straight, my headache." 
I actually formulated the plan myself. I never knew what it's called until I read Mark Rippetoe's book. It's a veteran workout that used to be very popular in weight rooms and gyms from all around the world. As you increase the weights, the repetitions for that particular set is reduced is basically the core for the Pyramid Programme.

By the way, I have trouble understanding 1RM, 10RM and 20RM concept.

Strength Sport-------------------Body Building-------------------------------Endurance Sport
*Strength*-----------------------*Hypertrophy*-----------------------------*Anaerobic Endurance*
<--1RM--------------------------------10RM--------------------------------------------------20RM-->
                                                                                          

What the hell is this?
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Lol.... others might tend misinterpret the way we converse as disparaging and patronizing, which is why I tend to tone down my vocabulary when conversing with fellow Malaysians. Down to business.

Most strength sports such as powerlifting aren't interested in how many reps can you do with a particular weight most of the time. They want to see how much you can lift with 1 rep, eg. squat/deadlift/bench press records at powerlifting meets. Lifting a particular poundage with just 1-3 reps is a show of strength but it doesn't necessarily induce as much hypertrophy compared to conventional bodybuilding rep ranges. Hence the strength to size graph isn't as linear as most people think.
In order to stimulate optimal hypertrophy, a muscle has to undergo a certain amount of tension under time, which is why bodybuilders do more repetitions to make a set last longer. Obviously if you do just 1-3 reps, your set isn't going to take more than 10 seconds. Go figure.
But there's a certain limit to that. Anything more than a certain number of reps, for example above 15 for most cases and it becomes more of an endurance exercise. Which is why the muscle bulk of long distance runners differ so much from 100m sprinters.
However, the theory of individual muscle fibre composition also applies. Different individuals respond to different rep ranges depending on the ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch fibres. See, nothing in bodybuilding is set in stone. Which is why we need to experiment with our own bodies. Even Madcow once said, his template workout is just that, a template. It's nothing but a guide, but once you know your body better, that program would have outlived its usefulness if you know how to create a program which suits you exactly.

There are no absolutes in bodybuilding. But i'll tell you one thing, those old school bodybuilders knew what they were doing in the 50's. Most of the concepts of old school bodybuilding haven't changed much even till now.

This post has been edited by darklight79: Aug 23 2008, 03:13 PM
TSdarklight79
post Aug 27 2008, 05:40 PM

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Tuesday 25/08/2008 Back

Workout time : 53 mins

Wide grip suppinated pulldowns
190lbs x 9
190lbs x 8
160lbs x 10
150lbs x 10
130lbs x 12

Barbell rows (light)
135lbs x 12
135lbs x 12
145lbs x 8, drop set 135lbs x 2
135lbs x 12

Narrow grip hammer pulldowns
100lbs x 10
100lbs x 10
90lbs x 10
80lbs x 15

Medium grip machine rows
100lbs x 10
100lbs x 10
90lbs x 11
80lbs x 15

Dumbell shrugs (per hand)
90lbs x 15
100lbs x 12
100lbs x 12
100lbs x 12

Comments:-
Pics are talking today:-
user posted image

This post has been edited by darklight79: Aug 27 2008, 05:41 PM
TSdarklight79
post Aug 27 2008, 09:54 PM

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QUOTE(John91 @ Aug 27 2008, 07:26 PM)
Wow, great motivation...  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif  notworthy.gif 
Darkie, how tall and heavy are you?

I think I'll start my workout journal next month.  tongue.gif
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Thanks. I'm 5 feet 8 inches, 87kg.

QUOTE(x0angelus0x @ Aug 27 2008, 08:10 PM)
Mr. Hulk, you should clean your camera lenses, they're so dirty. It's all black and white and grainy while your face is distorted. We need a coloured picture or it never happens  biggrin.gif .
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Then it never happened to you, no problem for me. Lol. I have a colored one too but I love black and white/sephia pics. Most of my friendster pictures are also using that effect. I find colored pics boring. And stop calling me Mr Hulk. =)
TSdarklight79
post Aug 27 2008, 10:07 PM

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Wednesday 27/8/2008 Quads/Hamstrings

Workout time: 45mins

Squats
Warm up
115lbs x 12
135lbs x 10
Work sets
275lbs x 10
295lbs x 8
295lbs x 6
225lbs x 10
225lbs x 8

Leg curls
4 plates x 12
5 plates x 10
5 plates x 11
4 plates x 11

Leg extensions
175lbs x 15
190lbs x 12
205lbs x 12
190lbs x 11

Db walking lunges
50lbs per side x 20 steps x 2 circuits

Comments:-
Almost no rest time. The moment my partner finished, I began my set.


TSdarklight79
post Aug 27 2008, 10:18 PM

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QUOTE(Desvaro @ Aug 27 2008, 09:11 PM)
Sorry to be a little off topic.

Once someone comes out of the intermediate stage, it's time that he ensures his programming is suitable for him in order to gain as much as possible.

There are some individuals who naturally have a high composition of fast twitch muscle fibers. These are the people who have been naturally been able to run very fast and/or jump very high even though they had not received proper training. Individuals like these respond better to a high sets low reps approach.

Then there are others who naturally have very high endurance, obviously these individuals would respond better to a program based on low sets and high reps.

This applies if your intention if to get HUUUUUUUUUGE, however if you train with other intentions (such as for a specific sport) then obviously your training would have to be based on the sports demands.

That being said, beginners should stick to a basic program such as Rippetoes. The problem is, many people think that they are 'advanced trainees' when they're not even close to being intermediate.

Until you are able to deadlift and squat 1.5x your bodyweight and bench your bodyweight, chances are you are no where near intermediate yet.
*
Any rep range between 1-20 stimulates hypertrophy. It is almost impossible to discern the accurate ratio of muscle fibers in an athlete therefore a training program consisting of sets with rep ranges that hit all muscle fibers would be most effective. Even powerlifters implement high rep sets into their training.
If hypertrophy is the main goal, then the pump is what a trainee should focus on; fascia tearing. Anyone can get a pump on bunny weights though, so obviously poundages should be around 75-80% of 1RM.
TSdarklight79
post Aug 28 2008, 10:50 AM

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QUOTE(x0angelus0x @ Aug 28 2008, 12:43 AM)
Haha. Ok, ok, I won't call you by that name again. It actually a compliment, sort of.
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Nah, don't fret about it. I'm not the least bit offended. I just find it funny. =) Cheers.

QUOTE(Sp00kY @ Aug 28 2008, 08:38 AM)
a lot of new terms to me, wait let me google and learn more smile.gif
*
Not really. Desvaro explained it quite well in the previous post. I'm just explaining what he said in a nutshell.
TSdarklight79
post Aug 28 2008, 11:32 AM

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QUOTE(Sp00kY @ Aug 24 2008, 09:48 PM)
thank you. What do you mean by varying the grip??
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Narrower grip, wider grip. All hit different parts of the back.

QUOTE(John91 @ Aug 28 2008, 11:28 AM)
Darn, I can't squat 1.5 of my body weight yet... I'm a Noobie sad.gif
Spooky can u?
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Doesn't matter. Consistency is the key.

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